OT: Buying House without Agent

[Plum Street]

"If I know what property I'm interested in" -- most buyers don't start out knowing that. The agent knows the neighborhoods better than almost all buyers. Second, it is always a pain to deal with someone who is not in your profession, so a seller's agent would prefer to deal with another agent rather than have to educate someone from outside the field. Third, an agent is a professional negotiator and can do better at it than almost all buyers. Fourth, a good agent is going to be able to advise you on choice of attorney (that's important in New Jersey, where the standard form contract is so badly written), home inspector, and similar non-trivial details. For almost all buyers and situations, scrimping on commission is just not worthwhile.

Yes. But you are not understanding the op. This is very simple S Savvy buyer. Knows the area. Has an attorney . Might have some construction knowledge. Get a buyer agent that will play ball with you.
Obviously , for someone that doesn’t know their ass from their elbow in those areas they are gonna hire an agent.

 

[RU Cheese]

"If I know what property I'm interested in" -- most buyers don't start out knowing that. The agent knows the neighborhoods better than almost all buyers. Second, it is always a pain to deal with someone who is not in your profession, so a seller's agent would prefer to deal with another agent rather than have to educate someone from outside the field. Third, an agent is a professional negotiator and can do better at it than almost all buyers. Fourth, a good agent is going to be able to advise you on choice of attorney (that's important in New Jersey, where the standard form contract is so badly written), home inspector, and similar non-trivial details. For almost all buyers and situations, scrimping on commission is just not worthwhile.

Appreciate the thoughtful response. Don't care about point 2 - there's little to deal with once offer agreed upon - and I don't agree on point 4. From my experience both realtors want a sale and not a lawyer or inspector who has your best interests at heart. #3 is fair point.

 

[RU Cheese]

What about this - would Buyers agent to agree to waive commission in exchange for rights to sell buyers current house?

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

If a buyer is pre-approved (as is often the case these days), there is not much advantage to the seller from the offer being all cash. The only caveat is that sometimes the buyer's lender causes trouble on silly issues. This is especially true now when interest rates are going up and so the lender doesn't much care if the deal goes through because there is always another potential buyer to lend to at a higher interest rate.

"Double-ending" is allowed by law so long as there is full disclosure through a standard form. The "double-ending" agent is limited in what she can tell each side, e.g. about what the other party's motivations. Still although I liked our agent, I was happy that the buyer came from a different agent.

I'm not a big fan of trying to negotiate commissions because I want my agent to have every possible incentive to work hard for me. If an agent is going to get 4% commission from my house, and 5% from somebody else's, she's going to care a lot more about selling the other house.

In the grand scheme of things, the percentage the agents get is small enough that it shouldn't be treated as a big deal.

The first paragraph makes sense - especially the last part. Lenders have gotten killed recently, so they may be more willing to let things go given how much the market is down. My wife is an agent, and I've seen a few deals go sideways because of some stupid disconnect between the loan agent and underwriting in recent years. In the market my wife works in (Yolo County, CA), cash offers are almost always preferred over offers with loans - even those with appraisal contingency removed.

As for double-ending, I don't care about forms and disclosures. I just think the buyer side is compromised. Yes, the practice is legal, I just think double-ending should not be allowed.

Third paragraph - agree 100%. IMO, The people who nickel and dime on commission are the most likely to find dumb reasons to waste everyone's time and scuttle the sale. Buyers should fight hard on any disclosed issues or those found through inspection.

 

[fg7321]

First, remember that you aren’t paying the buyers agent. The seller pays the commission. So you aren’t going to save money by not using one.




This. See my comment above.

The Agency that sold the house didn't need to split any commission with a buyers agency so they were going to get the full commission on the sale. I got them to know off a percent for that reason on what i had to pay them. The owner of the agency told me he wished his agents could negotiate like I did.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

I respect you defending the profession, but I've asking about the need for a BUYERS agent and so far I haven't heard one good argument. I get the dual agent limitations, but I'll ask again, if I know what property I'm interested in, what does aa buying agent get me?

Oh sure. Ive never heard you ask for a reason. Why you should have a buyers agent

1) it’s free
2) off market opportunities and office exclusive listings that you otherwise have no clue are available
3) list of qualified vendor referrals
4) negotiating the inspection items
5) making sure your offer is competitive in this insane market
6) market knowledge
7) relationships with other brokers (agents advise sellers against buyers who have terrible agents with bad reps of doing scummy shit post inspection all the time).

Those are 7 quick ones.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

What about this - would Buyers agent to agree to waive commission in exchange for rights to sell buyers current house?

What do you do for work? Haha. This is the brokest thread ive ever been in on this board haha

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

I’ll also be completely honest. As a buyer I ALWAYS try to buy for sale by owners. Ive bought 3 fsbo’s. And by bought, I should really say stole.

Theyre pretty stupid and you can get the house at such a steep discount. There is nothing better than a for sale by owner when youre a buyer.

 

[jmc11201]

1) it’s free
2) off market opportunities and office exclusive listings that you otherwise have no clue are available
3) list of qualified vendor referrals
4) negotiating the inspection items
5) making sure your offer is competitive in this insane market
6) market knowledge
7) relationships with other brokers (agents advise sellers against buyers who have terrible agents with bad reps of doing scummy shit post inspection all the time).

Those are 7 quick ones.

#1. Not true
#2. True
#3. True particularly if you are a first time buyer or new to an area
#4. Buyer agent is helpful but not necessary. Depends on the buyer.
#5. True if you are zeroed in on a particular house you are not willing to lose.
#6. Yes but plenty of buyers know the towns they are buying in and the market. It just takes some effort or a willingness to do so.
#7. Not an endorsement of a buyer agent. What if my agent is one of those terrible agents?

So I would argue buyers agents have value but at a cost. Whether the cost is worth the value depends on the individual buyer and how much work they want to do and how knowledgeable they are about the local market.

 

[RutgHoops]

If you can read a contract and negotiate Of course you can do it yourself. If it’d make you feel more comfortable hire an attorney.

That written I haven’t and wouldn’t buy a house without my own agent. One out of ten residential brokers know the first thing about real estate so they’re always good for a laugh but they’ll jump thru a cheerio if you ask so as to not lose a commission. The latter far outweighs the former so why would you pass that up for little real return.

 

[Plum Street]

Oh sure. Ive never heard you ask for a reason. Why you should have a buyers agent

1) it’s free
2) off market opportunities and office exclusive listings that you otherwise have no clue are available
3) list of qualified vendor referrals
4) negotiating the inspection items
5) making sure your offer is competitive in this insane market
6) market knowledge
7) relationships with other brokers (agents advise sellers against buyers who have terrible agents with bad reps of doing scummy shit post inspection all the time).

Those are 7 quick ones.

Cmon @kyk1827 . Are you a realtor ? I asked earlier and you ignored .
You know how the game is played here and you are being deceptive

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

#1. Not true
#2. True
#3. True particularly if you are a first time buyer or new to an area
#4. Buyer agent is helpful but not necessary. Depends on the buyer.
#5. True if you are zeroed in on a particular house you are not willing to lose.
#6. Yes but plenty of buyers know the towns they are buying in and the market. It just takes some effort or a willingness to do so.
#7. Not an endorsement of a buyer agent. What if my agent is one of those terrible agents?

So I would argue buyers agents have value but at a cost. Whether the cost is worth the value depends on the individual buyer and how much work they want to do and how knowledgeable they are about the local market.

The cost is quite literally zero haha. The buyer does not pay a fee for a buyers agent.

It's just a dumb argument that I regret even getting involved in haha

 

[Rutgers85]

All I know is my daughter is trying to buy a house in Putnam County in Ny and houses get sold very quick in the town she is looking at. Offered full price on 2 houses 2nd day on the market and didn’t get either.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Cmon @kyk1827 . Are you a realtor ? I asked earlier and you ignored .
You know how the game is played here and you are being deceptive

I am indeed a Realtor. Everyone on this board including you knows this. What is the game? I'm missing something here.

FYI, while I used to sell a ton of homes annually, I now spend a lot of time in Texas and don't do nearly as much brokerage activity as I used to.

I actually sold 3 of my NJ properties in the past couple years and paid a commission to a buyers each on each of them. Practice what I preach in other words.

 

[Plum Street]

I am indeed a Realtor. Everyone on this board including you knows this. What is the game? I'm missing something here.

FYI, while I used to sell a ton of homes annually, I now spend a lot of time in Texas and don't do nearly as much brokerage activity as I used to.

I actually sold 3 of my NJ properties in the past couple years and paid a commission to a buyers each on each of them. Practice what I preach in other words.

Shady realtors will push a deal
Through when representing both parties . You know this happens sometimes and the op has a valid question.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Shady realtors will push a deal
Through when representing both parties . You know this happens sometimes and the op has a valid question.

Give me an example when you say, "push a deal". Lay out the scenario.

I do agree, you should seek your own buyers agent and not try to go direct through the listing agent. If that's your point, I 100% agree.

Also, the buyers agent never pushes a buyer to buy a house they don't like haha. You realize this is like a multi decade decision for them, they're not going to be forced into a multi-decade decision of a house they don't like because a realtor pushed them

Also, what do you do for a living? I asked previously and you ignored

 

[RUskoolie]

I respect you defending the profession, but I've asking about the need for a BUYERS agent and so far I haven't heard one good argument. I get the dual agent limitations, but I'll ask again, if I know what property I'm interested in, what does aa buying agent get me?

They get you the house if they're skilled with negotiation. Most buyers and sellers are not and frankly get in the way of the deal getting done or make it much harder than it needs to be.

 

[RUskoolie]

What about this - would Buyers agent to agree to waive commission in exchange for rights to sell buyers current house?

I'm going to pretend this is a troll

 

[RUskoolie]

I’ll also be completely honest. As a buyer I ALWAYS try to buy for sale by owners. Ive bought 3 fsbo’s. And by bought, I should really say stole.

Theyre pretty stupid and you can get the house at such a steep discount. There is nothing better than a for sale by owner when youre a buyer.

The best story I ever tell is some thick headed seller I worked on for 2 years in New Brunswick. He had a 2 million dollar property and didn't want me to list it and sell it for him (and I would have gotten him 2M) because he would have to part with a 80k commission.

So he sold it a year later for 1.6M

Dude lost 320k to save 80k. Complete fool and today, my client is the one who bought it FSBO.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

The best story I ever tell is some thick headed seller I worked on for 2 years in New Brunswick. He had a 2 million dollar property and didn't want me to list it and sell it for him (and I would have gotten him 2M) because he would have to part with a 80k commission.

So he sold it a year later for 1.6M

Dude lost 320k to save 80k. Complete fool and today, my client is the one who bought it FSBO.

haha it's so common.

Had a guy this spring tell me he wanted $550K but only FSBO. I kept a straight face and just asked if he'd pay a buyers commission of 3% and he could rep himself as an unrepresented seller and he said yes. I brought my buyer, they asked me what the catch was because it seemed too low. I said no catch, guy is just an idiot and doesn't want representation.

House could've EASILY been listed for $650K and likely would've gotten over $700K after a bidding war. My clients are happy, we got him to accept at $545K. House around the corner that was smaller by about 400 sq feet, no finished basement (this $545K one had a finished basement) and one less bedroom sold 2 months later for $707K.

 

[retired711]

I appreciate the thoughtful responses to my comments. Rather than try to respond to responses, let me make a few additional points.

*Let me start with the most important: Agents, like every other business person, like repeat business. Twice I've used the agent who helped me buy a house to later sell it. (They were different individuals.) So it's not in an agent's interest (even the seller's agent) for the buyer to feel ripped off.

* Lawyers have the saying that a lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client. Speaking as a lawyer, I can say that the residential standard form contract used here in New Jersey is not drafted well. I don't just mean that it has provisions that are one-sided; I also mean there are ambiguities in the language that shouldn't be there. The result is that there is often considerable back-and-forth between the buyer's and seller's lawyer about the contract's language, and about how it should be changed. As buyer or seller, you need a good lawyer to help you. Ask the agent to recommend a few and pick one. (BTW, using a lawyer is much cheaper than you would think.) Don't try to do this yourself.

* Unless you are a construction expert, you will want the house inspected. There are both good and bad inspectors out there. The agent can help you find a good one.

* It is easy for a "lay" buyer or seller to overestimate his expertise. Some years ago, an agent was trying to help me buy a house. We visited a house for which the sellers were not using an agent. "My" agent got them to talk and talk and talk. After we left, and after I told "my" agent I wasn't that interested in the house, she said, "They think they know what they're doing, but they don't. They didn't realize that they were saying too much. They're going to get taken." Agents buy and sell for a living. The good ones know what to say and what not to say, and when to say it. They know what helps sell a house, and what doesn't. They know how to price a house. Be very cautious about assuming you know as much or more as they do.

Best wishes to all!

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

I appreciate the thoughtful responses to my comments. Rather than try to respond to responses, let me make a few additional points.

*Let me start with the most important: Agents, like every other business person, like repeat business. Twice I've used the agent who helped me buy a house to later sell it. (They were different individuals.) So it's not in an agent's interest (even the seller's agent) for the buyer to feel ripped off.

* Lawyers have the saying that a lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client. Speaking as a lawyer, I can say that the residential standard form contract used here in New Jersey is not drafted well. I don't just mean that it has provisions that are one-sided; I also mean there are ambiguities in the language that shouldn't be there. The result is that there is often considerable back-and-forth between the buyer's and seller's lawyer about the contract's language, and about how it should be changed. As buyer or seller, you need a good lawyer to help you. Ask the agent to recommend a few and pick one. (BTW, using a lawyer is much cheaper than you would think.) Don't try to do this yourself.

* Unless you are a construction expert, you will want the house inspected. There are both good and bad inspectors out there. The agent can help you find a good one.

* It is easy for a "lay" buyer or seller to overestimate his expertise. Some years ago, an agent was trying to help me buy a house. We visited a house for which the sellers were not using an agent. "My" agent got them to talk and talk and talk. After we left, and after I told "my" agent I wasn't that interested in the house, she said, "They think they know what they're doing, but they don't. They didn't realize that they were saying too much. They're going to get taken." Agents buy and sell for a living. The good ones know what to say and what not to say, and when to say it. They know what helps sell a house, and what doesn't. Be very cautious about assuming you know as much or more as they do.

Best wishes to all!

Bingo. Stats show that the top agents have over 90% of their business come from repeat and referral.

That's not happening screwing people over.

 

[retired711]

Bingo. Stats show that the top agents have over 90% of their business come from repeat and referral.

That's not happening screwing people over.

This has got to be the first time @kyk1827 and I have agreed on anything!

I first bought a house in the Washington, D.C. area in 1980. I was moving from Chicago. I knew someone else who had done the move and who had bought a house. He referred me to an agent, who referred me to another agent. I worked extensively with that agent, who helped me buy a house. A few years later I used her to sell that house and buy another. When I moved to South Jersey, she referred me to a a colleague who helped me sell that house. She also referred me to an agent here. That agent helped me buy a house (it was her listing, but the process went fine), and I then used that agent to sell that house and buy one I now live in. The agent is now long since retired, but if she weren't, I would use her in a nanosecond when the time comes to sell this house.

 

[RU to the Core]

I got both my houses with no agent. You have leverage bc of the no buyers commission part. I won a competitive purchase bc I was always $12k cheaper than everyone else. No commission to split bc the seller worked for the listing broker and only took his half. She kept the other half. Easy win.

The other one during negotiation I used me not having a broker as negotion leverage. Seller and I couldn’t agree. I said I don’t have a broker and you get the whole commission. Take the delta out of your commission or I walk. That’s what happened.

Selling your house definitely get a broker. They have a huge network and can make things happen. Plus showing your house is a nightmare so have someone else do it. My broker def got me an extra 30k when I was selling.

 

[Plum Street]

Give me an example when you say, "push a deal". Lay out the scenario.

I do agree, you should seek your own buyers agent and not try to go direct through the listing agent. If that's your point, I 100% agree.

Also, the buyers agent never pushes a buyer to buy a house they don't like haha. You realize this is like a multi decade decision for them, they're not going to be forced into a multi-decade decision of a house they don't like because a realtor pushed them

Also, what do you do for a living? I asked previously and you ignored

I work in IT. So I am not claiming to know more than you or any other real estate professional - my real estate deals can be counted on one hand . However, I do know the pot is sweetened for the agent when they get double commission

 

[czxqa]

Curiosity question... Has anyone ever bought a house without using a real estate agent? I'm not asking for a lecture on how important a Buying agent is, but simply if anyone has ever done this before. Specifically, if it's customary for the Selling and Buying agent to split the commission, I'm trying to understand why you can't negotiate with the Selling agent to drop the rate since it's all going to him or her.

Example: For a $100k house, assuming 6% commission that gets split... Seller = $94, Selling Agent = $3, Buying Agent = $3
Alternative: Offer $98k for house, and Selling agent gets total of 4% commission... Seller = $94.1, Selling Agent = $3.9, Buying Agent = N/A

This is a win for everyone, so other than the greed of the Selling agent trying to be the Buying agent as well, why doesn't this happen / what am I missing?

My buddy sold his old house and bought a new one years ago without an agent. On his existing house, he had an open house and ended up selling to someone who came to the open house with their own agent. As the seller, he ended up working out a commission on the side to pay the buyer's agent. As a buyer, you don't pay either agent; you agree to pay a certain price and all the commissions come out of the seller's end.

 

[Pils86]

I got both my houses with no agent. You have leverage bc of the no buyers commission part. I won a competitive purchase bc I was always $12k cheaper than everyone else. No commission to split bc the seller worked for the listing broker and only took his half. She kept the other half. Easy win.

The other one during negotiation I used me not having a broker as negotion leverage. Seller and I couldn’t agree. I said I don’t have a broker and you get the whole commission. Take the delta out of your commission or I walk. That’s what happened.

Selling your house definitely get a broker. They have a huge network and can make things happen. Plus showing your house is a nightmare so have someone else do it. My broker def got me an extra 30k when I was selling.

You do have leverage when going in without an agent but you give up knowledge. You are negotiating a deal against a professional that is trying to maximize the sales price and knows they are working with an amateur. How do you know your purchase price wasn't $15k higher than their next best offer.

 

[RU to the Core]

You do have leverage when going in without an agent but you give up knowledge. You are negotiating a deal against a professional that is trying to maximize the sales price and knows they are working with an amateur. How do you know your purchase price wasn't $15k higher than their next best offer.

Agree to some extent. I did a ton of research on the area I was buying in beforehand and it was for a house sitting on the market for 8 months already. Open house I went to was pathetic. Me and one other person. Guy priced way too high initially and then had to come way down and house was just stale. It was empty with no furniture bc the family moved out. Worst case for the seller. They originally y lister for like 530. Sat. They lowered to 470. They got an offer for 430. He declined. It sat longer. I came in and got it for 413 after they bled out almost a year of paying property taxes. Can’t be greedy when trying to sell.

Plus some of these real estate agents I’d say are barely professionals. Do enough research and you know what they know pretty quickly. This isn’t some opaque market anymore with all the info out there. Plus I negotiate well.

I agree though some agents are awesome and real professionals and know all the other brokers well. It’s like all lawyers knowing each other. My broker when I sold was awesome. I got 18 offers. Huge bidding war. He priced it under market which made the open house massive. First the at and under market offers first came in and then the real players started driving up the price. I felt bad for those people who were just kind of pawns there to get the house price up. He was able to play all the buying brokers off each other. Skill at work.

 

[JRZEER]

Bought my current house without an agent and the seller and I had the same lawyer. Easiest transaction I’ve ever had. The seller and I have done business together for 30 years in construction. I actually drove home from our lawyers office with the check and dropped it off at his house on my way home from the closing.

 

[RUskoolie]

haha it's so common.

Had a guy this spring tell me he wanted $550K but only FSBO. I kept a straight face and just asked if he'd pay a buyers commission of 3% and he could rep himself as an unrepresented seller and he said yes. I brought my buyer, they asked me what the catch was because it seemed too low. I said no catch, guy is just an idiot and doesn't want representation.

House could've EASILY been listed for $650K and likely would've gotten over $700K after a bidding war. My clients are happy, we got him to accept at $545K. House around the corner that was smaller by about 400 sq feet, no finished basement (this $545K one had a finished basement) and one less bedroom sold 2 months later for $707K.

Guy Probably posts on this free board. It's like being in Walmart ITT.

 

[RU Cheese]

Looks like Cheese might've been onto something...

Real-Estate Commissions Could Be the Next Fee on the Chopping Block

Real-Estate Commissions Could Be the Next Fee on the Chopping Block

Commission rates for selling a home haven’t really budged in decades but two class-action lawsuits and antitrust pressure could change that.

www.wsj.com