OT - Christie's proposed school funding plan

[Block R]

NJ is too smart for this. People associated with RU need to realize the crap sandwich they are being handed.

I would argue I've already been handed a crap sandwich in the form of my property bill. And a) I'm not a Trump supporter and b) I only supported Christie initially because he was a far better option than Corzine.

And where are the situations where less money worked? There are none. That is the problem. If they have to close schools and have classes with 50 students, or end the free pre-K, results down the line will be worse. Free pre-K in Union City for example has become a national model.

Your position is from the point of view that cuts can't be made in Abbott districts despite the status quo having been proven a failure. My take is the current funding formula is untenable for the non-Abbott population of the state and something has to be done. As I said earlier, Christie's proposed solution won't pass as is but it is a starting point towards finally attempting to fix the mess the NJ State Supreme Court created when they took on the role of legislators with respect to school funding.

Also, the spill from poorer results will come into those towns. Worse education will have even less students in college or in the schools and the on the streets..

Less funding need not equate to worse education as proven the by fact that non-Abbott's pay significantly less per student with far superior results. Gef made the point previously that some programs he's seen today are helping to keep kids/young adults off the streets. If those results can be substantiated and replicated, perhaps the state helps fund those programs in other districts as needed.

 

[RUevolution36]

I would argue I've already been handed a crap sandwich in the form of my property bill. And a) I'm not a Trump supporter and b) I only supported Christie initially because he was a far better option than Corzine.



Your position is from the point of view that cuts can't be made in Abbott districts despite the status quo having been proven a failure. My take is the current funding formula is untenable for the non-Abbott population of the state and something has to be done. As I said earlier, Christie's proposed solution won't pass as is but it is a starting point towards finally attempting to fix the mess the NJ State Supreme Court created when they took on the role of legislators with respect to school funding.



Less funding need not equate to worse education as proven the by fact that non-Abbott's pay significantly less per student with far superior results. Gef made the point previously that some programs he's seen today are helping to keep kids/young adults off the streets. If those results can be substantiated and replicated, perhaps the state helps fund those programs in other districts as needed.

stop being sensible!

 

[brianoc]

Clark had and from what I hear still has an very bad reputation in treatment of minority drivers. I grew up close by and you could never drive through Clark without seeing a minority pulled over. There is also a story about Spencer Christian and his Swedish wife purchasing a home in Clark. His wife did all the preliminary stuff with the purchase and when Christian Spencer showed up at the closing the sale was cancelled. I have no idea if that is an urban legend but anyone growing up in the area of Clark sure knows about the drivers being pulled over.

And T do not push your luck you were lucky getting me to agree with you 3 times

 

[RU_DIO]

Clark had and from what I hear still has an very bad reputation in treatment of minority drivers. I grew up close by and you could never drive through Clark without seeing a minority pulled over. There is also a story about Spencer Christian and his Swedish wife purchasing a home in Clark. His wife did all the preliminary stuff with the purchase and when Christian Spencer showed up at the closing the sale was cancelled. I have no idea if that is an urban legend but anyone growing up in the area of Clark sure knows about the drivers being pulled over.

And T do not push your luck you were lucky getting me to agree with you 3 times

This.

I actually had an old customer of mine brag about keeping minorities out of Clark. I have heard his position wasn't unique even though I know several good families who live or lived in Clark.

 

[mikebal9]

It doesn't take 33k per kid to provide a good education. My district is currently one of the most underfunded in NJ (by NJ's funding formula, I think we're at 13% of what we're entitled to, or some number close to that.), getting about $2100 per student, and we somehow manage to graduate a good number of kids. I work in a title 1 school where I had 8 white kids out of 91 this year, so even the population doesn't have to be a determining factor. These districts are stealing money and maybe this will force them to spend more responsibly.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

If the shoe fits...but no, that's not what I said at all. I said LOCALISM is generally an oppositional force when it comes to progressive ideas about integration. I even specified small c conservative as I'm not talking in a political sense.

WTF is a small C conservative? News flash - we live in the United States. There are no members of the Conservative Party posting here. No one in the US is going to take umbrage at your denigration the Conservative Party when you simply meant to rail on conservative ideals.

Your fake brand of intellectual enlightenment is utterly ridiculous. You post 6 pages of general crap, arguing back at the low hanging fruit and completely disregarding the intelligent challenges to you are saying. When you argue back its about 60/40 race baiting and typical white guilt. I would tell you to pick on kids your own size, but unfortunately it appears that you are. It would be funny if it wasn't so disappointing, but I guess that this is more common than any of us want to believe in liberal academia. Peddle some ridiculous ideas completely divorced from reality, and when challenged call everyone a racist.

Moving forward, maybe it would be wise to worry less about calling other people names, and worry more about adding something of value. Otherwise you are truly contributing nothing, and wasting everyone's time in doing so.

 

[mdk01]

Not at all. But we tend to see push back from conservative communities about things involving lower income communities.

You do when the $6 billion Schools Construction Fund that was supposed to solve a lot of problems with facilities in lower income communities gets pissed away and the politicians come back and look for more money like it never happened.

 

[mdk01]

Clark had and from what I hear still has an very bad reputation in treatment of minority drivers. I grew up close by and you could never drive through Clark without seeing a minority pulled over. There is also a story about Spencer Christian and his Swedish wife purchasing a home in Clark. His wife did all the preliminary stuff with the purchase and when Christian Spencer showed up at the closing the sale was cancelled. I have no idea if that is an urban legend but anyone growing up in the area of Clark sure knows about the drivers being pulled over.

And T do not push your luck you were lucky getting me to agree with you 3 times

As to Spencer Christian, I'll bet that's urban legend. Here's why. I remember Sue Simmons (remember her, Ch. 4 News) did an interview with a Bergen County realtor around 30 years ago for a story about issues of housing discrimination. What the realtor said was.basically: "You're Sue Simmons from television, you'll get shown the same houses in Ridgewood and Glen Rock a white person would see. If you are some anonymous black person that might not be the case." And a few years later Philippi Sparks from the Giants bought in Ridgewood.

 

[brianoc]

They are not Clark

Although I agree it is most likely an urban legend

 

[vkj91]

I have no doubt some school districts need extra funding but as I stand on the Neptune campus watching soccer....enough is enough. Their softball field is nicer than RU, they have beach volleyball courts, putting green and approach area? Why not. How about the Aquatic center? They get 7k a student...my town gets a few hundred.

 

[NotInRHouse]

so they basically stole your sides playbook? Instead of promising free Sh%t they are promising to let people keep more of their money?

Up there with "radical Islamic terror" and "good guys with a gun" is delusional right wing meme land is the idea that liberals want free stuff.

Most people with advanced degrees voted for Obama twice, as did several communities with higher than average income, including Jewish, Asian, and Muslim Americans.

Also fascinating is that when David Cameron or Steven Harper or Benjamin Netanyahu give their people free healthcare, they are conservative, but when Americans are simply required to purchase their own, its free stuff?

But even better is how the $1 trillion Iraq fiasco is not "free stuff" but providing tuition free public school is.

Do tell.Tell us why we need to subsidize Halliburton but not American families, or why the British Conservatives call the NHS the crown jewel?

Christie hasn't let anyone keep their own money, he raised NJT and PATH fares, tolls, used taxpayer money for his campaign and we are paying Gibson Dunn 14M and counting, nevermind that all Americans paid for Sandy money doled out to friends of the governor.

Please be honest, Christie is not for small government nor are liberals subject to your false portrayals. The last Republican to practice fiscal conservatism was Herbert Hoover.

 

[NotInRHouse]

I would argue I've already been handed a crap sandwich in the form of my property bill. And a) I'm not a Trump supporter and b) I only supported Christie initially because he was a far better option than Corzine.



Your position is from the point of view that cuts can't be made in Abbott districts despite the status quo having been proven a failure. My take is the current funding formula is untenable for the non-Abbott population of the state and something has to be done. As I said earlier, Christie's proposed solution won't pass as is but it is a starting point towards finally attempting to fix the mess the NJ State Supreme Court created when they took on the role of legislators with respect to school funding.



Less funding need not equate to worse education as proven the by fact that non-Abbott's pay significantly less per student with far superior results. Gef made the point previously that some programs he's seen today are helping to keep kids/young adults off the streets. If those results can be substantiated and replicated, perhaps the state helps fund those programs in other districts as needed.

My entire issue is that the program is not addressing the bolded, and thus, should not be ripe for consideration. I have no issue addressing property taxes if we are also going to address the poor districts. Is it just that Christie cannot walk and chew gum at the same time, or something else? That is my whole point.

 

[T2Kplus10]

My entire issue is that the program is not addressing the bolded, and thus, should not be ripe for consideration. I have no issue addressing property taxes if we are also going to address the poor districts. Is it just that Christie cannot walk and chew gum at the same time, or something else? That is my whole point.

Nice read, Christie obliterates the Star Ledger Editorial Board and those that support the current system.

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf...s_wrong_on_school_fund.html#incart_river_home

 

[motorb54]

But will those thousands of disappointed parents who could not get their kids into an urban charter school
vote against the incumbent?

 

[T2Kplus10]

But will those thousands of disappointed parents who could not get their kids into an urban charter school
vote against the incumbent?

Hopefully they will vote against the incumbent or anyone that wants to stifle charter schools/school choice. But this is NJ! :)

 

[Ty Webb]

I work in an urban district. My salary is decent but nothing special. My classes are over crowded, my supplies are minimal, my technology is non existent, and I do not even have enough desks. The heat and AC finally work in my classroom (didnt for two years) because we had the money to upgrade our heating and cooling system (our boiler was from the early 1900s).

Losing the 78 million my district would lose would be catastrophic. The last few years have been very positive where I work. We have seen a growth in test scores, graduation rates, and a drop in pregnancy rates, drop out rates, and violence (ive gone from breaking up a fight or more a day to only 11 on the year this year). Our biggest step now is improving technology and infrastructure in the district and losing that kind of money will be absolutely brutal the plans we have in the district.

I understand there is mismanagement of some funds, spending on programs we may not need, but a lot of that money gets used correctly where I work. I can not even imagine what we will lose if 78 million dollars in our budget vanishes.

You may think that but I suspect there's a lot more wasted money in your district than you could possibly realize.

 

[Ty Webb]

Most catholic schools in this state are a joke (and most do not have any services for students with special needs). They also pay their teachers nothing.

A joke? How?

 

[Ty Webb]

Careful there. The current brand of conservatism shut down Charlotte for trying to ban companies from firing gay people, and banned Texas towns from banning fracking within their borders.

Christie's move is get those outside of the 26% that support him- basically what he is saying to the suburban whites who despise his corruption and who are ready to smash the Republicans to bits in NJ until he is gone- hey I'll give you lower taxes so let's say we're even on me stealing from Sandy victims and shutting down the bridge lanes, capisce? How about that bridge trial and the racist I endorsed for President- oh wait here look a shiny new lower tax bill!

Christie and Trump have a defined brand, it is rallying the respective 26% and 30% who don't despise them and trying to hoodwink enough people to believe they will give them lower taxes and make them look the other way at the corruption, racism, and the fact that neither of them are actual fiscal conservatives, to get to 51%.

NJ is too smart for this. People associated with RU need to realize the crap sandwich they are being handed.

What's the crap sandwich for a majority of NJ residents? Potentially lower taxes?

See, the problem with many in this thread is that they are trying to make this a liberal versus conservative thing, when at it's core, it's not. It's about a state that has a rampant tax problem that props up a system that is flawed, at best, corrupt, at worst, that has gotten the way it has regardless of what party has power, is making decisions, etc.

So when I see people try to make this a GOP versus Dem thing, I tune those people out because they are biased and frankly, ignorant.

 

[NotInRHouse]

I agree Christie isn't a conservative. I do think some default to supporting him, though, because he pretends to be one.

As I said many times, the Heritage Foundation and others have written extensively on trying to help poor, urban districts. I don't think even one has ever said, just give them no money and take it from there, because it's intellectually dishonest.

If NJ wanted to get real on the budget they can legalize marijuana tomorrow.

 

[garyrc70]

This amounts to the obliteration of African American and Latino majority districts to spare well off white communities a few bucks in property taxes. I personally would stand to benefit immensely and find it revolting.

The amount of school funding has little to do with student achievement. Case in point DC public schools. Highest amount of funding per student in the country yet student performance particularly in the poor parts of the city is abysmal. The prevailing policy has been put in more $$ and those areas and there will be improvement. Hasn't happened.

 

[gef21]

A joke? How?

The majority of catholic schools in NJ offer zero special services, zero ICS, zero BD, and their test scores and facilities are lower. There are a few elite catholic schools but the drop off is fast. This is why so many catholic schools are closing in NJ. People realize many public schools are better than local catholic schools and teachers do not need to be certified and they pay teachers terribly.

 

[T2Kplus10]

The majority of catholic schools in NJ offer zero special services, zero ICS, zero BD, and their test scores and facilities are lower. There are a few elite catholic schools but the drop off is fast. This is why so many catholic schools are closing in NJ. People realize many public schools are better than local catholic schools and teachers do not need to be certified and they pay teachers terribly.

Funny stuff. Most catholic schools are thriving and killing publics on student performance.