OT: Electric vehicles

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Tesla investors to focus on demand issues in earnings report

Tesla Inc's (TSLA.O) quarterly report on Wednesday will likely show whether the Elon Musk-led electric-vehicle maker is facing any weakness in demand that is starting to weigh on the wider auto industry.

www.reuters.com

sounds like headwinds to me.

😂 Record production in Q3 is a headwind? It's not. It's clickbait, which you seem to fall for over and over. Or, you're just trolling. I wish you'd keep a record of the clickbait Tesla articles you post and their % of accuracy.

At 30% automotive gross margin, they have a myriad of demand levers they could pull and still have industry leading margins. Have any demand levers been pulled?

 

[Knight Shift]

😂 Record production in Q3 is a headwind? It's not. It's clickbait, which you seem to fall for over and over. Or, you're just trolling. I wish you'd keep a record of the clickbait Tesla articles you post and their % of accuracy.

At 30% automotive gross margin, they have a myriad of demand levers they could pull and still have industry leading margins. Have any demand levers been pulled?

Their proprietary charging network is BS. Just tried topping off my vehicle, and was denied. They need to get with the times. WTF, Tesla? 😜

 

[OntheBanks]

Pipelines are not a problem either:

Where Are Pipelines Located? Almost Everywhere | Submar

Pipelines exist almost everywhere. Natural gas is delivered directly to homes in relatively small-diameter distribution lines buried under the street and ev ...

submar.com

This site does a balanced job of presenting pipelines and the need for them:

Interactive Map: Crude Oil Pipelines and Refineries of the U.S. and Canada

Explore North America's crude oil pipelines and refineries across the U.S. and Canada in our interactive map.

www.visualcapitalist.com

We have a bunch now, but as the second website points out, the future for them is less certain. Which makes sense as we try to transition to cleaner energy production. Will it mean petroleum products will become more expensive for a while during the transitionary period, probably. But again, this is almost certainly one of those pay now or pay a lot more later things.

Sorry, not talking about those pipelines. The problem is trying to get pipelines from the well head to those pipelines.
If you had a lease to explore on your current property and you struck oil or nat gas how would your neighbors react to you trying to run a pipeline to one of those main pipelines down the middle of your street.

 

[mildone]

5 minute charging time sounds good.

NASA Space Tech Could Give Us 5-Minute Electric Car Charging Times

Thanks to NASA, we may be closer to EV chargers that completely juice a battery in as little as five minutes. Here is how it would work.

www.motortrend.com

 

[mildone]

Nice looking and Lotus builds driver’s cars. Interested to see how this one pans out.

2025 Lotus Eletre Review, Pricing, and Specs

An electric SUV isn't what anyone would expect from Lotus, but the Eletre promises to be powerful and eye-catching with a price tag to match.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[mildone]

11 more crash deaths are linked to automated-tech vehicles

Eleven additional people were in crashes involving vehicles using automated driving systems during a four-month period earlier this year, according to newly released government data, part of an alarming pattern of incidents linked to the technology.

apnews.com

 

[RUevolution36]

😂 Record production in Q3 is a headwind? It's not. It's clickbait, which you seem to fall for over and over. Or, you're just trolling. I wish you'd keep a record of the clickbait Tesla articles you post and their % of accuracy.

At 30% automotive gross margin, they have a myriad of demand levers they could pull and still have industry leading margins. Have any demand levers been pulled?

China auto sales growth slows in Sept as signs of softening demand emerge

Sales of electric vehicles (EV) in China rose at their slowest pace in five months as demand faltered in a sputtering economy despite government incentives to revive the auto market, though industry officials forecast a stronger end to the year.

www.reuters.com

Why yes, levers are being pulled.

 

[mildone]

China auto sales growth slows in Sept as signs of softening demand emerge

Sales of electric vehicles (EV) in China rose at their slowest pace in five months as demand faltered in a sputtering economy despite government incentives to revive the auto market, though industry officials forecast a stronger end to the year.

www.reuters.com

Why yes, levers are being pulled.

Must be clickbait from that far right propaganda machine, Reuters. 😀

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

China auto sales growth slows in Sept as signs of softening demand emerge

Sales of electric vehicles (EV) in China rose at their slowest pace in five months as demand faltered in a sputtering economy despite government incentives to revive the auto market, though industry officials forecast a stronger end to the year.

www.reuters.com

Why yes, levers are being pulled.

Yep, and plenty of wiggle room for more if necessary. All signs point to EV growth continuing. Sorry to disappoint, but Tesla is good.

 

[NewJerseyGuy]

“‘It was very difficult’: Electric vehicle owner took 15 hours to drive 178 miles”​

“The distance between Cheyenne and Casper is 178 miles, which with the speed limit taken into account should take less than 2 1/2 hours.”

“Since that first attempt, O’Hashi has made the trip again but was only able to cut the total travel time down to 11 hours. While waiting to charge, he noted that he often spends extra money shopping or eating, in addition to the charging cost.”

‘It was very difficult’: Electric vehicle owner took 15 hours to drive 178 miles - Washington Examiner

A Colorado electric vehicle owner called a road trip across the state of Wyoming “very difficult” after it took 15 hours to drive 178 miles. Alan O’Hashi used to live in Wyoming and explained that a trip back to the Cowboy State in his electric Nissan Leaf required lots of patience. “It was very...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[RUevolution36]

Yep, and plenty of wiggle room for more if necessary. All signs point to EV growth continuing. Sorry to disappoint, but Tesla is good.

View embedded media

to put that into context. Chinese domestic brand auto sales for Q1-3 was 8.1m units. JUST domestic brand. which was ~50% of the total. so...roughly 16m passenger cars sold in that country and tesla has what, 360k YTD?

That's 2.25% of the total market.

Of BEV's, Chinese consumers bought 490k in August, of which 34,502 were Tesla's, which is 7%.

Hard to say that they are crushing it. As i've said before, scale and context matters.

 

[RUDead]

“‘It was very difficult’: Electric vehicle owner took 15 hours to drive 178 miles”​

“The distance between Cheyenne and Casper is 178 miles, which with the speed limit taken into account should take less than 2 1/2 hours.”

“Since that first attempt, O’Hashi has made the trip again but was only able to cut the total travel time down to 11 hours. While waiting to charge, he noted that he often spends extra money shopping or eating, in addition to the charging cost.”

‘It was very difficult’: Electric vehicle owner took 15 hours to drive 178 miles - Washington Examiner

A Colorado electric vehicle owner called a road trip across the state of Wyoming “very difficult” after it took 15 hours to drive 178 miles. Alan O’Hashi used to live in Wyoming and explained that a trip back to the Cowboy State in his electric Nissan Leaf required lots of patience. “It was very...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Guy sounds like a moron. He didn't think of this before he bought the car?

 

[OntheBanks]

“‘It was very difficult’: Electric vehicle owner took 15 hours to drive 178 miles”​

“The distance between Cheyenne and Casper is 178 miles, which with the speed limit taken into account should take less than 2 1/2 hours.”

“Since that first attempt, O’Hashi has made the trip again but was only able to cut the total travel time down to 11 hours. While waiting to charge, he noted that he often spends extra money shopping or eating, in addition to the charging cost.”

‘It was very difficult’: Electric vehicle owner took 15 hours to drive 178 miles - Washington Examiner

A Colorado electric vehicle owner called a road trip across the state of Wyoming “very difficult” after it took 15 hours to drive 178 miles. Alan O’Hashi used to live in Wyoming and explained that a trip back to the Cowboy State in his electric Nissan Leaf required lots of patience. “It was very...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Should have bought a PHEV.
Mine is rated 37 miles on full charge on electric. And I have an 11 gallon tank.
I would drive 30 miles on EV Now mode. Then switch to EV charging mode which is charging the battery while driving on gas. (30 total miles, 30 on electric)
I figure after 60 miles on EV Charging I would have charged the battery up to an additional 25-30 miles. (90 total miles, 30 on electric)
I would then switch the driving mode to EV Now to again run on electric for 30 miles.
(120 total miles, 60 on electric)
After using up most of the battery I'd switch the mode to EV Charging mode for 58 miles again.
(178 total miles, 60 on electric) and I'd have electric to begin my trip back.
1/3 the trip on electric and maybe less than 4 gallons of gas all in 2 1/2 hours non-stop.

 

[mildone]

Hard to say that they are crushing it. As i've said before, scale and context matters.

Maybe he meant Tesla's gotten into the car compacting/recycling business?

 

[RUevolution36]

NHTSA: 10 more fatal crashes linked to Tesla's automated driving tech

The new fatal crashes are documented in a database that NHTSA is building in an effort to broadly assess the safety of automated driving systems, which, led by Tesla, have been growing in use.

www.autoblog.com

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Their proprietary charging network is BS. Just tried topping off my vehicle, and was denied. They need to get with the times. WTF, Tesla? 😜

Doesn't have the CCS adapter 😉

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

to put that into context. Chinese domestic brand auto sales for Q1-3 was 8.1m units. JUST domestic brand. which was ~50% of the total. so...roughly 16m passenger cars sold in that country and tesla has what, 360k YTD?

That's 2.25% of the total market.

Of BEV's, Chinese consumers bought 490k in August, of which 34,502 were Tesla's, which is 7%.

Hard to say that they are crushing it. As i've said before, scale and context matters.

Yikes. Where to start. Yes context matters.
The number of sales you quoted includes hybrids and EVs such as the Wuling Mini EV which sells for $5,000. Wuling sold 395k units in 2021. These vehicles would not be street legal in Europe or the US because of lack of safety features. I'm guessing you haven't seen:

Google it if image doesn't load.

I've got news for you. No one in China is pondering a decision between a Tesla and a Wuling. Wulings are mostly replacing scooters and motorcycles, not $50k+ Teslas. So yeah, context matters.

BYD sells mostly hybrids and they lose money on all of their pure EV sales, as do Nio, Xpeng, and all the other Chinese EV makers. Tesla is the only profitable EV producer in China.

You're blinded by your bizarre hatred for Tesla. If you'd like to place a friendly wager on Tesla's demand falling off a cliff, I'm game. Name it. We can do 2023 production if you want. I already have a bet going with @mdk01 that the Model Y will be the best selling vehicle globally by the end of 2023. My wager is looking pretty good so far.

 

[Ty Webb]

Yikes. Where to start. Yes context matters.
The number of sales you quoted includes hybrids and EVs such as the Wuling Mini EV which sells for $5,000. Wuling sold 395k units in 2021. These vehicles would not be street legal in Europe or the US because of lack of safety features. I'm guessing you haven't seen:

Google it if image doesn't load.

I've got news for you. No one in China is pondering a decision between a Tesla and a Wuling. Wulings are mostly replacing scooters and motorcycles, not $50k+ Teslas. So yeah, context matters.

BYD sells mostly hybrids and they lose money on all of their pure EV sales, as do Nio, Xpeng, and all the other Chinese EV makers. Tesla is the only profitable EV producer in China.

You're blinded by your bizarre hatred for Tesla. If you'd like to place a friendly wager on Tesla's demand falling off a cliff, I'm game. Name it. We can do 2023 production if you want. I already have a bet going with @mdk01 that the Model Y will be the best selling vehicle globally by the end of 2023. My wager is looking pretty good so far.

Best selling vehicle or best selling EV?

Per Car & Driver, the Model Y was estimated to have sold 162,000 units through 3 quarters in 2022. The Ford F-150 sold nearly 500,000 units in 9 months. The Y is certainly popular but to beat out the F-150, that would be quite an increase in popularity in 2023.

 

[jtung230]

Best selling vehicle or best selling EV?

Per Car & Driver, the Model Y was estimated to have sold 162,000 units through 3 quarters in 2022. The Ford F-150 sold nearly 500,000 units in 9 months. The Y is certainly popular but to beat out the F-150, that would be quite an increase in popularity in 2023.

F150 is the best selling truck or car in the us.

 

[RUevolution36]

Yikes. Where to start. Yes context matters.
The number of sales you quoted includes hybrids and EVs such as the Wuling Mini EV which sells for $5,000. Wuling sold 395k units in 2021. These vehicles would not be street legal in Europe or the US because of lack of safety features. I'm guessing you haven't seen:

Google it if image doesn't load.

I've got news for you. No one in China is pondering a decision between a Tesla and a Wuling. Wulings are mostly replacing scooters and motorcycles, not $50k+ Teslas. So yeah, context matters.

BYD sells mostly hybrids and they lose money on all of their pure EV sales, as do Nio, Xpeng, and all the other Chinese EV makers. Tesla is the only profitable EV producer in China.

You're blinded by your bizarre hatred for Tesla. If you'd like to place a friendly wager on Tesla's demand falling off a cliff, I'm game. Name it. We can do 2023 production if you want. I already have a bet going with @mdk01 that the Model Y will be the best selling vehicle globally by the end of 2023. My wager is looking pretty good so far.

so, you're trying to narrow your scope so that your boy comes out on top. it's like those stats that they throw up on MNF broadcasts...XXX QB has tied the record for most consecutive completions in a quarter, in the rain, in a game in October, in the Central time zone, by a quarterback from a B12 school. the scope is so narrow that it's virtually meaningless.

 

[Knight Shift]

Doesn't have the CCS adapter 😉

That is my vehicle. Still looking for an EV conversion kit. Can't seem to find one.

Nice bank of chargers in Sedona, AZ, which must be new. Had not noticed them before.

 

[RUevolution36]

@mildone

High downforce Porsche Taycan test car spied near the Nurburgring

One of our spy shooters just caught a rather intriguing looking Porsche Taycan with big aero running around on roads outside the Nurburgring

www.autoblog.com

 

[RUevolution36]

This startup wants to put EV chargers at fast-food restaurants — starting with a Taco Bell - Autoblog

The fast-charging stations can provide a 100-mile charge in 20 minutes, ChargeNet says. The firm is targeting fast-food chains for its EV stations.

www.autoblog.com

can your bowels make it thru 20 min of charging before needing to vacate themselves violently after eating taco bell?

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Best selling vehicle or best selling EV?

Per Car & Driver, the Model Y was estimated to have sold 162,000 units through 3 quarters in 2022. The Ford F-150 sold nearly 500,000 units in 9 months. The Y is certainly popular but to beat out the F-150, that would be quite an increase in popularity in 2023.

global vehicle.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

so, you're trying to narrow your scope so that your boy comes out on top. it's like those stats that they throw up on MNF broadcasts...XXX QB has tied the record for most consecutive completions in a quarter, in the rain, in a game in October, in the Central time zone, by a quarterback from a B12 school. the scope is so narrow that it's virtually meaningless.

First, you had no idea the Wuling Mini was included in those numbers.
Second, if you want to include it, great. I stand by my assertion that not 1 single Chinese person is debating over buying a Wuling vs a "normal" EV like a Tesla, BYD, Nio, Xpeng...etc. It's a 4 wheel scooter with no safety features that has a 100 mi range and top speed of 60 mph.

 

[RUevolution36]

First, you had no idea the Wuling Mini was included in those numbers.
Second, if you want to include it, great. I stand by my assertion that not 1 single Chinese person is debating over buying a Wuling vs a "normal" EV like a Tesla, BYD, Nio, Xpeng...etc. It's a 4 wheel scooter with no safety features that has a 100 mi range and top speed of 60 mph.

BEV stats are BEV stats. now go back to your corner with and lube up over the next tesla article.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

“‘It was very difficult’: Electric vehicle owner took 15 hours to drive 178 miles”​

“The distance between Cheyenne and Casper is 178 miles, which with the speed limit taken into account should take less than 2 1/2 hours.”

“Since that first attempt, O’Hashi has made the trip again but was only able to cut the total travel time down to 11 hours. While waiting to charge, he noted that he often spends extra money shopping or eating, in addition to the charging cost.”

‘It was very difficult’: Electric vehicle owner took 15 hours to drive 178 miles - Washington Examiner

A Colorado electric vehicle owner called a road trip across the state of Wyoming “very difficult” after it took 15 hours to drive 178 miles. Alan O’Hashi used to live in Wyoming and explained that a trip back to the Cowboy State in his electric Nissan Leaf required lots of patience. “It was very...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Amazing what people will believe. Looks like one, 12 minute stop for charging. Maybe do a little research before posting garbage.

A better route planner: Cheyenne to Casper in a Nissan Leaf

This is a carbon copy of the Wall St. Journal "journalist" who did a cross country trip in an EV, intentionally drove out of her way to avoid fast chargers, then wrote a hit piece about EVs.

 

[mildone]

@mildone

High downforce Porsche Taycan test car spied near the Nurburgring

One of our spy shooters just caught a rather intriguing looking Porsche Taycan with big aero running around on roads outside the Nurburgring

www.autoblog.com

Curious. I'm a little surprised Porsche would go there w/an EV. Add downforce that isn't ground-effect based, and one can pretty much kiss efficiency goodbye and plan to recharge a lot more often.

I don't exactly see the value of a high-downforce EV, personally. I know the Rimac Nevera, and so forth , are exactly that (high downforce EVs). But like the Model S Plaid (goofy name, but whatever), I just don't get the allure of sports-car EVs. Such cars are basically hurry up and wait cars - you go 0-60 really fast, maybe a lap or two around a track really fast and then head straight to a charger.

The Rimac and some others are amazing to look at and all. But I'm not the buy it and look at it type. I'm the buy it and drive it like you stole it type. I needs me some gears and exhaust sounds and shit.

But there are plenty of folks who buy high end sports cars just to look at and take, very slowly so as not to risk damage from road debris, to cars and coffee once a month during the summer. So I guess those folks will buy a high-downforce Taycan and/or Rimac's, etc. Not that there's anything wrong with that. 😀

 

[mildone]

This startup wants to put EV chargers at fast-food restaurants — starting with a Taco Bell - Autoblog

The fast-charging stations can provide a 100-mile charge in 20 minutes, ChargeNet says. The firm is targeting fast-food chains for its EV stations.

www.autoblog.com

can your bowels make it thru 20 min of charging before needing to vacate themselves violently after eating taco bell?

All depends (no pun intended) upon how much Ben & Jerry's one consumed the night before. One single-serving sized pint, probably can make it the 20 minutes. But two pints and it could get a little dicey.

 

[mildone]

It's a 4 wheel scooter with no safety features that has a 100 mi range and top speed of 60 mph.

Sounds like you're having range anxiety. They make pills for that.

 

[RUevolution36]

Curious. I'm a little surprised Porsche would go there w/an EV. Add downforce that isn't ground-effect based, and one can pretty much kiss efficiency goodbye and plan to recharge a lot more often.

I don't exactly see the value of a high-downforce EV, personally. I know the Rimac Nevera, and so forth , are exactly that (high downforce EVs). But like the Model S Plaid (goofy name, but whatever), I just don't get the allure of sports-car EVs. Such cars are basically hurry up and wait cars - you go 0-60 really fast, maybe a lap or two around a track really fast and then head straight to a charger.

The Rimac and some others are amazing to look at and all. But I'm not the buy it and look at it type. I'm the buy it and drive it like you stole it type. I needs me some gears and exhaust sounds and shit.

But there are plenty of folks who buy high end sports cars just to look at and take, very slowly so as not to risk damage from road debris, to cars and coffee once a month during the summer. So I guess those folks will buy a high-downforce Taycan and/or Rimac's, etc. Not that there's anything wrong with that. 😀

oh come on, you should know better than most...it's not a real porsche until there's a track oriented version available.

 

[mildone]

oh come on, you should know better than most...it's not a real porsche until there's a track oriented version available.

I guess all Porsche vehicles are track-oriented. Especially 911s and Cayman/718s from the lowliest entry level models to the GT models. But I still lack appreciation for high-downforce EVs. Just seems contrary to their whole purpose, which is to use less energy.

 

[Ty Webb]

global vehicle.

That would be quite the feat. That would be a major increase over 2022 sales.

 

[jtung230]

I guess all Porsche vehicles are track-oriented. Especially 911s and Cayman/718s from the lowliest entry level models to the GT models. But I still lack appreciation for high-downforce EVs. Just seems contrary to their whole purpose, which is to use less energy.

Not true. Performance was a big reason Tesla was successful. If you want pure efficiency, buy a Prius

 

[mildone]

Not true. Performance was a big reason Tesla was successful. If you want pure efficiency, buy a Prius

I expressed an opinion, a preference. It’s not a matter of truth. Because I personally have no interest in EV sports cars or sedans (of any kind), acceleration in EVs is meaningless to me, beyond the ability to safely navigate traffic. I’m not trying to speak for others.

Nor did I intend to convey an opinion as to why Tesla has been successful, although I can see why you took it that way. Just conveying that, to me, any EV is all about energy efficiency. 0 to 60 times or 1/4 mile times can be fun but not so much when the car does all the work - in which case it’s like riding a roller coaster, exciting a few times, but gets old quick. I crave lightness and gears and perfect upshifts and engine noise and exhaust sounds.

I have zero interest in automaker financials, or sales numbers (in general), or stock prices, etc. I’m all about an individual’s personal driving experience - how it feels, how individuals enjoy their “car time”, etc. I like hearing about the trips people take from the perspective of their relationship with their car or SUV or truck.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Not true. Performance was a big reason Tesla was successful. If you want pure efficiency, buy a Prius

All EVs are more efficient than a Prius.

 

[jtung230]

All EVs are more efficient than a Prius.

I factor in refueling/charging in that equation.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

BEV stats are BEV stats. now go back to your corner with and lube up over the next tesla article.

You're the guy that said "context matters".
I put your China EV sales numbers into context.
You had no idea the $5k Wuling Mini existed, nor did you know their sales #s, which, when put into CONTEXT, distorts the % of all other EV manufacturers in China.

Rather than admit your ignorance, you throw a tantrum.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

I factor in refueling/charging in that equation.

So does the EPA. EVs win on efficiency.

 

[jtung230]

So does the EPA. EVs win on efficiency.

I measured efficiency in terms of easy of use as well as mileage. You don’t need to pre-plan a trip, add charger at home or longer “refuel” time with Prius.