Good question. Rolling stops were only occuring at vacant intersections with clear visibility. Unlikely cops are going to bust balls for that.
OT: Electric vehicles
- Thread starter BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap
- Start date
Because a government-imposed recall of 363,000 devices is indicative of quality app dev practices, amirite?
Eleven people were killed in U.S. crashes involving vehicles that were using automated driving systems during a four-month period earlier this year, according to newly released government data, part of an alarming pattern of incidents linked to the technology.
Ten of the deaths involved vehicles made by Tesla, though it is unclear from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration’s data whether the technology itself was at fault or whether driver error might have been responsible.
https://fortune.com/2022/10/19/tesl...ash-deaths-linked-to-automated-tech-vehicles/
( it's the future , but there are kinks needed to be worked out before singing everything's beautiful )
>"There are two varieties of self-driving robot cars with no human driver currently rolling around San Francisco: the GM subsidiary Cruise vehicles with large reddish-orange stripe on the back and robot equipment up top that resembles a big, chunky ski rack; and the Alphabet-owned Waymo vehicles, which are all white, and whose robot equipment up top looks more like R2-D2’s head. And each robot car brand has its own unique set of beta-version problems — the Cruise vehicles have had issues where they suddenly stop in the street, while Waymo cars have had an odd tendency to congregate and do 50-point turns at dead-end streets.
An amused narrator informs us in the video that “We’ve got a Waymo vehicle that just drove into a construction site and doesn’t know what to do. And there’s no one in it.” As construction workers surround the disoriented robot car and have a good laugh, they also try to move the orange traffic cones around to maybe help the vehicle figure things out, which does not work “I guess they don’t know what to do when they drive through construction zones yet,” our narrator concludes."<
https://sfist.com/2023/01/16/self-d...nto-construction-site-doesnt-know-what-to-do/
Ten of the deaths involved vehicles made by Tesla, though it is unclear from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration’s data whether the technology itself was at fault or whether driver error might have been responsible.
https://fortune.com/2022/10/19/tesl...ash-deaths-linked-to-automated-tech-vehicles/
( it's the future , but there are kinks needed to be worked out before singing everything's beautiful )
>"There are two varieties of self-driving robot cars with no human driver currently rolling around San Francisco: the GM subsidiary Cruise vehicles with large reddish-orange stripe on the back and robot equipment up top that resembles a big, chunky ski rack; and the Alphabet-owned Waymo vehicles, which are all white, and whose robot equipment up top looks more like R2-D2’s head. And each robot car brand has its own unique set of beta-version problems — the Cruise vehicles have had issues where they suddenly stop in the street, while Waymo cars have had an odd tendency to congregate and do 50-point turns at dead-end streets.
An amused narrator informs us in the video that “We’ve got a Waymo vehicle that just drove into a construction site and doesn’t know what to do. And there’s no one in it.” As construction workers surround the disoriented robot car and have a good laugh, they also try to move the orange traffic cones around to maybe help the vehicle figure things out, which does not work “I guess they don’t know what to do when they drive through construction zones yet,” our narrator concludes."<
https://sfist.com/2023/01/16/self-d...nto-construction-site-doesnt-know-what-to-do/
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Tesla and the gubment teaming up to put people's lives at risk.
“Even if you work 24/7 for the next 60 days, I’m not sure there are enough hours to adequately address all the issues NHTSA has raised,” she told me.
Assuming Tesla does claim to have resolved the FSD problems that NHTSA has flagged, Americans may well have to take the company’s word for it. Why is that? Because the U.S. does not require that automated car technology be tested and approved for safety before being offered to the public. That goes for initial systems as well as for over-the-air updates..
slate.com
“Even if you work 24/7 for the next 60 days, I’m not sure there are enough hours to adequately address all the issues NHTSA has raised,” she told me.
Assuming Tesla does claim to have resolved the FSD problems that NHTSA has flagged, Americans may well have to take the company’s word for it. Why is that? Because the U.S. does not require that automated car technology be tested and approved for safety before being offered to the public. That goes for initial systems as well as for over-the-air updates..
Why the Massive Tesla Recall Is So Bad
While the company pushed out "unsafe" tech, the government was asleep at the wheel.
Bad week of news for Tesla
www.businessinsider.com
Tesla cofounder says he was 'basically unemployable' and out of money for 2 years after being ousted from the company
Martin Eberhard was forced to resign as CEO of the electric-car maker and left it in 2007. His history with Tesla is a sore subject for Elon Musk.
www.businessinsider.com
These Are Consumer Reports 10 Best Vehicles to Buy in 2023
If you want a car that's reliable, safe and well-rounded, these are the cars for you.
jalopnik.com
Tesla racking up more bad news Two fatal crashes this week. Not on the hunt for these stories. Others above popped up in my news feed. This one comes from a firefighter email list
Several days old, but Ford identified the problem and production will resume. Seems that their production pause was in an abundance of caution:
We have very little information on this yet, so we don’t want to get too far ahead of this with speculation. Ford is going big on electric vehicles, so it makes sense that they would exercise an abundance of caution, given media overreactions to anything that has to do with EVs.
The curious part is that there’s a stop shipment but no stop sale. Thus, this could be an issue that only affects vehicles in transit, which means owners don’t really have to worry about anything. If Ford is confident to allow dealers to release vehicles to customers, at least they must not think there is any safety issue at the moment.
electrek.co
Electrek’s Take
We have very little information on this yet, so we don’t want to get too far ahead of this with speculation. Ford is going big on electric vehicles, so it makes sense that they would exercise an abundance of caution, given media overreactions to anything that has to do with EVs.
The curious part is that there’s a stop shipment but no stop sale. Thus, this could be an issue that only affects vehicles in transit, which means owners don’t really have to worry about anything. If Ford is confident to allow dealers to release vehicles to customers, at least they must not think there is any safety issue at the moment.
Ford identifies cause of F-150 Lightning battery issue, production restarts in 'a few weeks' (updated)
Ford has issued a nationwide “stop shipment” order to all its carriers, instructing them to hold F-150 Lightnings while a...
electrek.co
Anyone ready for an electric boat?
electrek.co
How about an air taxi?
electrek.co
Legacy boatbuilder Chris-Craft unveils 133 kWh electric boat concept at Miami Boat Show
Veteran boatbuilder Chris-Craft kicked off this year’s Miami International Boat Show by unveiling its first-ever all-electric boat concept. The Launch...
electrek.co
How about an air taxi?
First electric air taxi takes flight around New York City
Blade Air Mobility and BETA Technologies announced Tuesday that they successfully tested the first electric vertical take-off and landing (eVTOL),...
electrek.co
The software isn't malfunctioning. Appears to be doing what it was programmed to do. This is a disagreement between Tesla and NHTSA over the aggressiveness of fsd
So they released a general update that wasn't regulatory compliant?
But, again... rock solid dev process.
You keep saying that like it means something.
It doesn't.
What matters, in this instance, is that they went through the dev process on a software revision that was released to the general public but which was not compliant with federal requirements.
Maybe somebody will be nice and explain to you why that last bit is the most important.
Obviously the ones that weren't followed, which now necessitate a recall.
You're a dumbass. Seriously.
There are a host of implications listed in both the complaint document and the recall notice. Onward travel through stale yellow, straight-ahead travel from turn-only lanes, failure to adjust vehicle speed in variable speed zones... All of these things are failures to demonstrate compliance with engineering requirements.
Put simply, if the FSD Beta release had met all requirements then they wouldn't have had to recall it.
I wasn't aware of any federal engineering requirements.
"Certain driving maneuvers could potentially infringe upon
local traffic laws or customs, which could increase the risk of a collision if the
driver does not intervene"
Because you don't know the industry definition of the word "requirement". And if you don't know that, then you are absolutely ZERO percent qualified to talk about software development and are in no position to defend Tesla's inadequacies.
I don't think either of us are qualified to critique Tesla's software development
You guys seem to be talking past each other. Belly is not 100% wrong. From the Slate article I linked above:
"The recall is voluntary, meaning that it was jointly agreed upon by Tesla and NHTSA. The “remedy” will be a free over-the-air software update for Tesla owners, who will be notified of its availability by April 15."
While I am not a huge fan of overly onerous federal regulations, some is probably in order here, like in Europe:
"Notably, there is no similar FSD recall in the European Union, because Tesla hasn’t received the green light to offer it there. Until regulators grant that permission, Tesla can’t sell FSD to Europeans. During a speech last year in Berlin, Tesla CEO Elon Musk himself summarized the difference in transatlantic car regulations: “In the U.S. things are legal by default, and in Europe they’re illegal by default.” "
Interesting if this happens:
www.reuters.com
Lithium miner Sigma jumps on report Tesla considering buyout
U.S.-listed shares of Sigma Lithium Corp rose 21% in extended trading on Friday after Bloomberg News reported that Tesla Inc was weighing a takeover of the Canada-based battery metals miner.
www.reuters.com
I really don't care about the specifics of the recall since I would never buy a Tesla under any circumstances. They're made badly and now we know that Elon's software dev teams don't follow any rules other than "What Elon wants".
The point here is simply that they're not following a structured app dev process. They're not doing it over at Twitter, either. When you don't provide any guardrails for your developers and they don't follow a specific SDLC process then things will get missed, things will get dropped, things will break. Baby carriages will be run over.
Some moderators we have here posting false memes. There may be a small handful of electric fire engines in service, but most certainly, stations that have an electric powered engine have diesel powered apparatus too. 🙄
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Tango's contribution to the universe is pretty minimal.
Twitter can afford bugs here and there. OTOH, I gotta assume the space x folks are operating with a much more rigorous approach. Hard to figure out what Tesla is doing. But from the way the Tesla owners keep talking about getting software updates, it sounds like they keep pushing out unfinished software. Which would suck even with standard ECU code, let alone self-driving code.
When is software "finished"? I'm not an expert, but I think the only answer to that question is never. I'd be leery of a company claiming their software is perfect and will never change. And I'm glad you brought up SpaceX. Software teams often go back and forth between SpaceX and Tesla. So SpaceX has a rigorous approach, but when the same people are working at Tesla, it's not? Come on.
And besides, software updates aren't necessarily fixes. Owners are getting new features.
I'm not following the back and forth, and don't care to, but as to "finished," my F150 Lightning has received no less than four software updates since we took ownership in November. As far as I know, none of it is related to Blue Cruise or driver assist features. As the Slate article pointed out, I don't think it is a bad idea for the US to take a European approach to self-driving software. Opinions will vary on this, but there seems to be enough "there there" to justify more regulation/approval by federal (and perhaps even state like they do with pollution control) authorities.
It’s very obvious that Tesla isn‘t taking the care they should with the software they’re putting out with their cars. Otherwise, they wouldn’t be having a recall in which they admit their software might cause accidents.
I am an expert on this subject. I’ve worked with teams who do mission critical work (e.g. software for payloads launched into orbit - no second chances there) and then switch to working on stuff that isn’t nearly as critical.
Nobody uses the same level of testing and QA for non-critical work that they use for mission-critical work. It would be stupidly inefficient and non-competitive.
There is an appropriate level of QA for self-driving or other automotive software. Tesla has clearly not met that level and is undertaking corrective action.
He's not very bright and a terrible moderator for posting such stuff. Richie should remove him as a moderator.
Being a moderator doesn’t mean not having or voicing opinions, no matter how much we might disagree with them.
A moderator is supposed to enforce rules and, where necessary, act to deescalate conversation. While I agree with you that the memes in question are dumb, as most memes generally are, I don’t think they violated any rules or exacerbated anything in any problematic way.
OTOH, insulting people‘s intelligence IS actually against the rules. And he and other mods let it go most of the time (even when it’s aimed at them) where it doesn’t escalate things too much, which it rarely does here. IMO, that‘s pretty good moderation.
Just my opinion.
Software is never finished. However, shipping software into production means that it has been fully tested and passes all acceptance criteria for that release. "Not crashing into things and people" is a pretty persistent, non controversial requirement for an MVP. But FSD gets shipped anyway, despite not being able to pass that test.
