OT: Electric vehicles

[WhichReligionIsRight]

Tesla Model 3 used prices are down more than $11,000

Tesla Model 3 used prices are now down 21.5% since last year’s peak. On average, the used price of Tesla’s...

electrek.co

Here are the leaders in price drops for used vehicles over the last six months:

Rank	Used Vehicle	Average Price (Feb 2023)	$ Price Change from Sept 2022	% Price Change from Sept 2022
1	Tesla Model 3	$41,337	-$11,302	-21.5%
2	Nissan Kicks	$19,713	-$3,050	-13.4%
3	Nissan LEAF	$25,734	-$3,502	-12.0%

Data confessed after being tortured.

 

[RUevolution36]

I've owned an electric car for four months and not used a public charger once - Autoblog

This point just doesn’t get made enough in the conversation about EVs: Most charging occurs at home. And it's great. So, what if you don't live in a house?

www.autoblog.com

 

[RU4Real]

Why would one not include sunk costs?

From a corporate accounting perspective, this question answers itself.

 

[RU-05]

Stop making shit up. Tesla barely squeaked by. I don't know anyone following Tesla that isn't aware of this.

The acting comes in when they point to the legacies losing money on EV's in the early days of production as a sign that they can never produce EV's at a profit.

 

[T2Kplus20]

The acting comes in when they point to the legacies losing money on EV's in the early days of production as a sign that they can never produce EV's at a profit.

Ford is s'ing the bed on EVs:

Ford (F) unveiled its new financial reporting structure ahead of Thursday's teach-in event. Ford Model e (the EV business) lost about $2.1 billion in adjusted EBIT (earnings before interest and taxes) in 2022, and management sees the loss rising to about $3 billion this year.

 

[RU-05]

Ford is s'ing the bed on EVs:

Ford (F) unveiled its new financial reporting structure ahead of Thursday's teach-in event. Ford Model e (the EV business) lost about $2.1 billion in adjusted EBIT (earnings before interest and taxes) in 2022, and management sees the loss rising to about $3 billion this year.

Is this not because they are accounting for R&D and capitalization?

 

[T2Kplus20]

Is this not because they are accounting for R&D and capitalization?

Not sure, but this is likely the rosiest scenario F could come up with and it still looks awful.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

The acting comes in when they point to the legacies losing money on EV's in the early days of production as a sign that they can never produce EV's at a profit.

There's acting on both sides.
Some think it's a foregone conclusion that legacy will successfully make this transition. GM has been in the EV game for 7 years.
2022 production:
Bolt 44k
Hummer <1k
Lyric <200
In the red on all.
Are they still in the "early days"?

 

[RU-05]

There's acting on both sides.
Some think it's a foregone conclusion that legacy will successfully make this transition. GM has been in the EV game for 7 years.
2022 production:
Bolt 44k
Hummer <1k
Lyric <200
In the red on all.
Are they still in the "early days"?

In terms of the Hummer and Lyric, obviously.

And in general, yes, of course.

The bull case on TSLA, and the reason it sells at such a high multiple, is that it too is still in it's early days. So yes, the companies that are coming late to the party, are very much in their early days of EV.

 

[RU-05]

Not sure, but this is likely the rosiest scenario F could come up with and it still looks awful.

Meh, they could be taking the losses early so as to show profitability later.

 

[RU4Real]

Is this not because they are accounting for R&D and capitalization?

Dude.

You're basically asking a panda bear to understand stellar physics.

 

[mildone]

Dude.

You're basically asking a panda bear to understand stellar physics.

T's cute. But he's not that cute.

 

[jtung230]

There's acting on both sides.
Some think it's a foregone conclusion that legacy will successfully make this transition. GM has been in the EV game for 7 years.
2022 production:
Bolt 44k
Hummer <1k
Lyric <200
In the red on all.
Are they still in the "early days"?

Put things in perspective. When did Tesla announce CT and where are they with it? They are the leader in EV. Surly they can ramp quickly on a new product.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

 

[T2Kplus20]

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Ford = LOL
No competition to Tesla.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

 

[T2Kplus20]

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And profitably doing so.

 

[jtung230]

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That’s not bad if they can do it. It only took Tesla 15+ years to turn a profit.

 

[jtung230]

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More price cuts coming

 

[jtung230]

Tesla Model 3 Could Lose EV Credit, Report Says. Confusion Around the Tax Break Continues.

Car companies loved it when the U.S. government rolled out its $7,500 tax credit for people who buy electric vehicles. On Thursday, EV news outlet Electrek, citing people familiar with the matter, reported that Tesla (ticker: TSLA) expects its lowest-priced Model 3 sedan will lose eligibility...

www.yahoo.com

 

[RUBlackout7]

Will gas stations slowly turn into charging stations?

 

[mildone]

Will gas stations slowly turn into charging stations?

Those that have the space will likely do both for some time to come, I would think.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Will gas stations slowly turn into charging stations?

Would make sense. Wawa and quick check seem to be adding them at all of their gas stations quickly

 

[mildone]

More price cuts coming

Wish Porsche would cut prices. But nope.

Freaking Porsche is rumored to be raising prices across their product range by 20% soon. I’m about to put a deposit in an GT3 allocation. But my place on the wait list puts its availability an estimated two years out. It’s the long wait lists with people paying huge ADMs over MSRP to dealers that make the massive price hike possible.

A 20% increase will suck. Maybe Tesla’s price drops will put Porsche under pressure to leave their EV range where it’s at price-wise.

 

[mildone]

Model 3 leading pack of used car pricing drops.

Used-Car Prices Are Finally Dropping

Tesla Model 3 leads with a 21.5% plunge in the last six months.

www.autoweek.com

 

[RUBlackout7]

Would make sense. Wawa and quick check seem to be adding them at all of their gas stations quickly

Seems like a good investment if you own a gas station. More convenience store money to be made off EV owners.

 

[jtung230]

Due to the speed of charging, makes more sense for sit down food places to add them.

 

[mildone]

Due to the speed of charging, makes more sense for sit down food places to add them.

That’s a good point. Food places and maybe other entertainment places. Maybe drive-in theaters will make a comeback.

 

[mildone]

This is a lovely concept. An EV convertible.

Genesis Wants Performance to Differentiate Its EVs from Hyundai and Kia

And there's a chance the gorgeous X concept might actually go into production.

jalopnik.com

 

[T2Kplus20]

More price cuts coming

TSLA can afford price cuts. Can the "competition"? LOL.

 

[mildone]

TSLA can afford price cuts. Can the "competition"? LOL.

Yes. But can Tesla afford to raise prices? LOL.

This is a fun game. 😀

 

[jtung230]

TSLA can afford price cuts. Can the "competition"? LOL.

Afford price cuts? Better be careful. Next thing you know lower margins means it’s just another car company.

 

[mildone]

Afford price cuts? Better be careful. Next thing you know lower margins means it’s just another car company.

The Toyota of EVs. Been saying it for awhile now.

Maybe not quite the build quality. Yet. But the volume thing for sure. And even Tesla has been exterior styling than Toyota, IMO.

 

[T2Kplus20]

Afford price cuts? Better be careful. Next thing you know lower margins means it’s just another car company.

Dumb post. All other car companies have negative margins for EVs.

 

[jtung230]

Dumb post. All other car companies have negative margins for EVs.

It’s a good thing they sell a lot of ICE vehicles

 

[fsg2]

Yes. But can Tesla afford to raise prices? LOL.

This is a fun game. 😀

Guy trolled himself on that one.

 

[rurahrah000]

Afford price cuts? Better be careful. Next thing you know lower margins means it’s just another car company.

My guess is that question will be answered next month when TSLA reports its earnings. I expect an increase in sales but margin deterioration. Will the market forgive lower margins for higher sales? My guess is "no" in the short term, but long term, the more Tesla cars that are out there, the higher the profit.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

Will gas stations slowly turn into charging stations?

Turn into? I don't know about that, but incorporating chargers at gas stations? Sure.

GM, Pilot will build EVgo fast chargers at 500 truck stops across U.S. | Autoblog - Autoblog

GM, Pilot and EVgo will build a network of 2,000 DC fast chargers for EVs that can charge up to 350 kW, at 500 Pilot and Flying J truck stops nationwide.

www.autoblog.com

 

[jtung230]

My guess is that question will be answered next month when TSLA reports its earnings. I expect an increase in sales but margin deterioration. Will the market forgive lower margins for higher sales? My guess is "no" in the short term, but long term, the more Tesla cars that are out there, the higher the profit.

The price drop was short lived. Tesla increase the prices as soon as they qualified for the tax credit. Plus, they’ll just book more tax credit to boost margin. I think they will have a decent quarter unless China comes in super weak.

 

[RU4Real]

Dumb post. All other car companies have negative margins for EVs.

No. They don't. Stop being f*cking stupid.

Ford is projecting an increase in losses from its EV unit, labeled Model e, up from $2.1 billion last year to total nearly $3 billion in 2023. "Ford Model e is an EV startup within Ford. As everyone knows, EV startups lose money while they invest in capabilities, develop knowledge, build volume, and gain share." (John Lawler, Ford CFO) The company is planning the construction of two new battery-cell factories in Kentucky and a third in Tennessee, along with the $3.5 billion lithium-iron-phosphate battery plant it will build in Marshall, Michigan. - Car & Driver