OT: Electric vehicles
- Thread starter BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap
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its not politics....this is an EV thread and there is a lack of EV charging in the country....Politico is not right wing so not sure why you are going there...it underscores the issue facing the gung ho pushers of EV
EV Sales Are in a Slump — Why Aren’t More Car Buyers Going Electric?
Sales of electric cars are underperforming, even with price cuts and $7,500 tax credits.
money.com
Whom to believe, one wonders. Except I think everybody is saying the same things, but with different emphasis to support their agendas or narratives or biases or whatever.
Also, some people talk about worldwide #s to make their point, while others just talk about the US to make their point.
As for me, I still can't understand why anybody but the various stakeholders, who need the information in order to plan ahead, GAF. Seems to me about as interesting as watching paint dry. I'd be happy to get updates every 5 years.
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EV Sales Are in a Slump — Why Aren’t More Car Buyers Going Electric?
Sales of electric cars are underperforming, even with price cuts and $7,500 tax credits.
Whom to believe, one wonders. Except I think everybody is saying the same things, but with different emphasis to support their agendas or narratives or biases or whatever.
Also, some people talk about worldwide #s to make their point, while others just talk about the US to make their point.
As for me, I still can't understand why anybody but the various stakeholders who need the information in order to plan ahead, GAF. Seems to me about as interesting as watching paint dry. I'd be happy to get updates every 5 years.
Really stupid agenda stuff over what's ultimately a basic consumer product.
"EVs sales are slowing ...failure! ICEs will dominate forever."
"EV sales are increasing. EVs will take over the entire market tomorrow!"
Let the market evolve and buy whatever the hell you prefer in the meantime. As if it's going to be a perfectly straight trajectory.
I read the article. It's filled with opinions and talking specifically about the president. To me, that's political and thus I have zero interest in it.
Doesn't matter to me if it's left or right wing. If it touches on politicians or politics, I tune it out. That nonsense is even more boring than automotive manufacturer sales figures.
Got an article talking about a great driving experience with your car (of any kind), or some opinions on which cars you like or hate, and then I'm interested.
yeah it kinda matters since we have ghouls flying jets all over saying he have to have mandates on this
I told you. EV mandates are about helping auto manufacturers commit to building EVs.
Don’t take them too seriously. You will still be able to drive what you want for the rest of your driving life.
CR’s Real-World EV Range Tests Show Which Models Beat EPA Estimates - Consumer Reports
Consumer Reports' real-world electric car range tests show how far an EV can go on a highway road trip before the battery runs out.
Not sure why you care so much or why you are here. Go on with your life and find something to make yourself happy. Many EV owners are quite happy with their choice, and these issues will eventually work out. All new technologies face stumbling blocks and setbacks. Remember when the internet was barely usable when most of the world was using dial up modems? Did you whine about that and that the internet was a huge fail? Of course your did!!!!
I really only watch The Five. I never watch Jesse but Laura is very good but don't watch much since Daddy Tucker was fired. Hannity is unwatchable
It's all unwatchable garbage. Turned that channel on last night to get an update on things. Turned it off in 5 minutes. A lot of raging against the machine over nothing.
Refreshed model 3 once it's available in the US, then Cybertruck toward the end of the decade.
Not a fan of these EV “mandates”. Clearly they are activist as well as maximalist in nature to advance political agendas. It just makes people roll their eyes at the whole process when you want public buy-in.
Would much rather see a target date of 2050 with a comprehensive plan to increase battery efficiency, lower charger installation costs for landlords/real estate holding companies, drive efficiency in the manufacturing process to reduce overall costs of new EVs and to increase effective life expectancy of EVs to promote affordable used options, scale up national infrastructure, and to encourage innovation to make this whole initiative a true cheaper alternative to ICE vehicles without the need of government subsidies.
Right now it’s too piecemeal and too reliant in federal and state intervention.
Would much rather see a target date of 2050 with a comprehensive plan to increase battery efficiency, lower charger installation costs for landlords/real estate holding companies, drive efficiency in the manufacturing process to reduce overall costs of new EVs and to increase effective life expectancy of EVs to promote affordable used options, scale up national infrastructure, and to encourage innovation to make this whole initiative a true cheaper alternative to ICE vehicles without the need of government subsidies.
Right now it’s too piecemeal and too reliant in federal and state intervention.
We can achieve a 2040 deadline if we commit to the stuff you described. but money has to be diverted that way. You can put in the mandate to sunset ICE while putting money towards building out everything needed to support an EV future instead of throwing money at price subsidies for the purchase of EVs.
Reducing greenhouse gas emission is not a political agenda.
I suppose you don't have a problem with other mandates and/or government incentives to encourage beneficial behavior by taxpayers and citizens such as tax writeoffs for mortgage payments, etc. All the things you said in your second paragraph will happen, thankfully through private enterprise, likely well ahead of 2050. As I mentioned above there are always growing pains with new technology. See the internet in 1994-95 and dial up modems. There was a lot of government-promoted investment to lay optical fiber to speed up the onset of the information age. Did you rage against that too? Some of you guys are funny.
Just want to throw my 2 cents in, given I agree with your sentiment, but Bret Baier's show is very good.
Feel if people watched that show, and only that show, the country would be a better place.
I look forward to your hearing about your experiences with them.
i guess you have not met Greta and John Kerry....reducing greenhouse emissions may not be political....the whole climate change thing that we have to do something now or we are going to die is...so yes all of this stuff cannot be seperated
i hope you dont watch abc, cbs, nbc news because that is also unwatchable garbage so you have to pick and choose and get varied news sources
I just saw a prominent woman poltician go onto nbc with that nice phony lady who slandered a young teenager and declare a wild conspiracy theory with no pushback while the suburban housewives watching on their Pelaton and their $600 leggings nod in agreement
garbage is right
I’m not a fan of EV mandates and would prefer to see infrastructure build out spending instead of rebate spending. However, I also understand that the mandates and the rebates work to incentivize auto manufacturers. Without them, where’s the motivation to make the massive investments into transitioning to EVs?
The mandates and rebates are not aimed at us consumers. I still dislike them. But it’s the only realistic way for the US to encourage the change.
And the mandates will almost certainly slip from their current targets. Only CA, who seem to have no problem forcing unpopular change on their constituents, seem likely to try and meet their actual EV mandates.
I do foresee that, in the months leading up to actual enforcement of a mandate, whenever that is, for there to be a spike in new vehicle purchases or leases of ICE vehicles. A large number of folks are going to want to delay until as late as possible to take up an EV.
Actually, climate change isn’t political either. It is changing and we will all have to adapt. This is not debatable and all senators and most reps (both sides) know it.
But, like so many heavily politicized issues, the two sides will take every opportunity to magnify relatively small differences of policy into massive, hyperbolized, hysteria-inducing fake differences to energize the electorate. They do this because, and only because, it helps them with campaign financing and re-election.
This works for politicians because so many people are so easily outraged and so easily shepherded around by nonsensical narratives. It works because people are either too lazy to learn the objective facts that matter, which aren‘t found on any biased websites or chain emails, and/or they lack the issue-specific education and intelligence to comprehend those facts correctly and in the proper context.
Unfortunately, people obsessed with politics rarely realize they are disposable pawns of politicians that don’t know or care they exist and are cynically using them for their votes. And even when they suspect there’s some truth there that they’re missing, they shy away from admitting to themselves that they’ve been wasting huge amounts of time they can never get back, chasing their ideological mirror-image around a mouse wheel, accomplishing nothing whatsoever.
Which is very sad.
Probably true, unless we’re in a recession at the time. But I think the dates will slip several times. In places like NJ, not pushing the dates back seems like a recipe for losing the next election.
no there is a difference...climate change vs anything we do actually making more than a smidge of difference..that is where it is political and actually a new religion for those who dont follow the traditional religions
Any government mandate, subsidy, tarriff, etc. is by definition a political issue. To argue otherwise is absurd.
For the politically obsessed, everything is a religious debate.
It takes about 15 minutes of reading a week to be fully informed of anything new and meaningful in political issues. Often less than 15 minutes because truly new and meaningful stuff is kinda rare.
IMO, if you’re spending any more time than that talking, writing, reading, or thinking about politics or politicians, or political issues, you’re doing life all wrong.
If forced to guess, I’d guess few people positing in this thread will ever be unable to purchase a car they prefer. Mandates can slip. New propulsion and fuel technologies can evolve. Political realities will change many times.
EVs seem likely to become the majority propulsion type. But it’ll be a long time before we see how things shake out. I’d bet most of us are no longer driving by then.
For the older folks, even your kids will probably still have a choice. And their kids probably won’t even care.
This reminds me of a recent conversation I had. My daughter will be driving in 2-3 years. Theoretically I’d be handing her down a Model 3. It got me to thinking, do I teach her how to drive just using that? Obviously there isn’t that much of a difference in the grand scheme of things, but given that i learned in my mom’s dodge minivan, it’s quite the leap. She will probably split her time between the Tesla and her mom’s suv to get the best of both worlds.
By political agenda I’m referring to personal political agendas where a politician and their staff will set a super aggressive goal in line with their party’s hot button items so that when they move on to their next role they can point back to that bill they passed as something they did whether or not it was actually executed on. I.e. setting the most aggressive EV conversion timeline in the country in order to say they are the most aggressive on reducing the ICE footprint while knowing the target date is unrealistic.
I’m completely on board with reducing greenhouse gas emissions in a responsible fashion, so that’s not what I was referring to.
We're in the same boat. My kid gets my model 3 hand-me-down, I get the new 3. The only concerning issue from going from ICE to EV is the one pedal driving. Even I have to reset my brain and remember to use the brake pedal when I drive an ICE.
Cybertruck drivers doing a similar brain reset with the tight turning radius, 4 wheel steering and steer by wire.
I forget to put my wife’s ICE in park, accidentally leave it on for extended periods when I run into a store, try shifting with the windshield wiper, etc. Definitely need a reset.
I would think it doesn't make a difference what car she drives, in terms of driving. Minivan or Model 3, same principles of driving, right?
As said above, the one pedal driving is a big difference. My wife still hasn’t quite mastered it 🤦🏻♂️
I think this is about the balance between training one's brain so a task becomes instinctive and how much one focuses on the task of driving.
Most people, in my experience, focus very lightly on driving and their minds are usually occupied with other thoughts. Which is, I guess, pretty normal considering most people drive so much that it becomes very intuitive, like walking.
In that lightly focused intuitive mental context, it's pretty easy to forget certain differences between how cars work because our brains are on autopilot. Human cognition is such that we can be easily "tricked" and miss context switches in that kind of mental state.
I'm weird about driving and enjoy it more than almost anything else I do, immersing myself deeply in the process. Part of the enjoyment is hyper-focusing on the task of driving to the exclusion of all other thoughts (e.g. I always struggle to have conversation while driving).
In that hyper-focused mental context, switching between wildly different cars with wildly different steering, braking and balance, and wildly different driving controls, is a deeply embedded and automatic thing. So, for instance, I never hop into a 2 pedal car and mindlessly try to stomp my left foot on the brake pedal with my brain telling my left foot to engage the clutch, even when I spent the prior 6 hours driving a car with a clutch pedal.
Yeah, I gave it some more thought and get it now. I was projecting, but shouldn't given my approach to driving is pretty unusual and out there.
Tesla Whistleblower Says 'Autopilot' System Is Not Safe Enough To Be Used On Public Roads
"It affects all of us because we are essentially experiments in public roads."
jalopnik.com
