OT: Electric vehicles

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

imho, what is needed is standardized rental battery packs nationwide.

A fill-up would consist of swapping batteries... take out a battery pack, stick it in a charger.. grab a "full" battery pack and you stick it in. The monthly rental fee and a nominal swap fee at the service station would cover it all.

maybe some small vehicles work off one such pack.. larger vehicles 2 or 3.

you can still have home charging stations and plugs in public places.. but for road trips.. this would work.

"force" or "encourage" all companies to come out with a model that supports the standardized battery packs and some tax incentive for the creation of these swap stations. One company owns all the battery packs.. like a public utility.. so swapping old and worn out for new and fresh isn't even an issue.. it is worked into the monthly fee.

 

[Scarlet16E]

imho, what is needed is standardized rental battery packs nationwide.

A fill-up would consist of swapping batteries... take out a battery pack, stick it in a charger.. grab a "full" battery pack and you stick it in. The monthly rental fee and a nominal swap fee at the service station would cover it all.

maybe some small vehicles work off one such pack.. larger vehicles 2 or 3.

you can still have home charging stations and plugs in public places.. but for road trips.. this would work.

"force" or "encourage" all companies to come out with a model that supports the standardized battery packs and some tax incentive for the creation of these swap stations. One company owns all the battery packs.. like a public utility.. so swapping old and worn out for new and fresh isn't even an issue.. it is worked into the monthly fee.

Treat it the way railroads handle boxcars, or the freight industry entirely with shipping containers.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

imho, what is needed is standardized rental battery packs nationwide.

A fill-up would consist of swapping batteries... take out a battery pack, stick it in a charger.. grab a "full" battery pack and you stick it in. The monthly rental fee and a nominal swap fee at the service station would cover it all.

maybe some small vehicles work off one such pack.. larger vehicles 2 or 3.

you can still have home charging stations and plugs in public places.. but for road trips.. this would work.

"force" or "encourage" all companies to come out with a model that supports the standardized battery packs and some tax incentive for the creation of these swap stations. One company owns all the battery packs.. like a public utility.. so swapping old and worn out for new and fresh isn't even an issue.. it is worked into the monthly fee.

There's currently a battery shortage and will be for the foreseeable future. Batteries need to go into vehicles rather than sitting in a swap station.

The cost for a swap station infrastructure far exceeds the cost of a charging infrastructure.

You'd probably get greater throughput with 10 chargers vs 1 swap station.

Battery packs are heavily fortified from any type of intrusion. Early Teslas were able to swap packs, however Tesla reversed course after packs got damaged from road debris. Big safety risk. Batteries can't just pop out of the bottom of the vehicle. Removal of these protections would add complexity and time to any swap.

 

[RUevolution36]

Tesla sold 32,968 China-made vehicles in July, local sales plunged m/m

U.S. electric vehicle maker Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) sold 32,968 China-made vehicles in July, including 24,347 for export, the China Passenger Car Association (CPCA) said on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com

 

[mdk01]

"Sales in the 1st month of the quarter are usually lower" Massaging the books for financial reporting?

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

"Sales in the 1st month of the quarter are usually lower" Massaging the books for financial reporting?

No. Shanghai has become the primary vehicle export hub. Tesla has always prioritized exports in the first month of each quarter since exports take longer to go through the logistics process of delivery.

 

[mdk01]

No. Shanghai has become the primary vehicle export hub. Tesla has always prioritized exports in the first month of each quarter since exports take longer to go through the logistics process of delivery.

And what is the manufacturing/production reason for prioritizing exports in the 1st qtr.?

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

imho, what is needed is standardized rental battery packs nationwide.

A fill-up would consist of swapping batteries... take out a battery pack, stick it in a charger.. grab a "full" battery pack and you stick it in. The monthly rental fee and a nominal swap fee at the service station would cover it all.

maybe some small vehicles work off one such pack.. larger vehicles 2 or 3.

you can still have home charging stations and plugs in public places.. but for road trips.. this would work.

"force" or "encourage" all companies to come out with a model that supports the standardized battery packs and some tax incentive for the creation of these swap stations. One company owns all the battery packs.. like a public utility.. so swapping old and worn out for new and fresh isn't even an issue.. it is worked into the monthly fee.

I'm all for standardization of the charge ports, but want no part of quick swapping battery packs. You note that this may a viable option for long trips. However, folks can charge their EVs on the road in about about 1/2 hour with L3 chargers. But let's say it take an hour.

Compare that to showing up a shop on the road somewhere and swapping the battery pack. I doubt that happens in less than an hour. Plus, infrastructure needs would be on par with Telsa's supercharger network. Who is going to pay for all that?

I've included an article on the topic which includes a neat video of a Nio battery pack being swapped out. I believe they are the only manufacturer that swaps battery packs. However, the writer is also down on the idea of swapping batteries.

Motor Mouth: Is battery-swapping the future of EVs?

Chinese automaker Nio has already completed 500,000 battery swaps in 58 cities

driving.ca

If battery swapping ever does happen on a wide scale, look for it to happen in China first.

EV battery swapping is dead in US, but China wants to make it happen

Whether or not you think EV battery swapping is a good idea, Beijing likes it. More importantly, the Chinese government can make it happen

electrek.co

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

And what is the manufacturing/production reason for prioritizing exports in the 1st qtr.?

It's not the 1st Q. It's the 1st month of each Q. The reason isn't manufacturing. Shipping cars around the world takes time.

I'm sure Tesla wants their export #s factored into each Q, and deliveries can only be counted when customers have their vehicle. Prioritizing exports in the 1st month ensures this.

 

[mdk01]

It's not the 1st Q. It's the 1st month of each Q. The reason isn't manufacturing. Shipping cars around the world takes time.

I'm sure Tesla wants their export #s factored into each Q, and deliveries can only be counted when customers have their vehicle. Prioritizing exports in the 1st month ensures this.

1st month. You are correct. But why frontload, or backload, exports to the 1st month? If the demand is there why not ship as soon as possible?

 

[RUevolution36]

1st month. You are correct. But why frontload, or backload, exports to the 1st month? If the demand is there why not ship as soon as possible?

cheaper to ship in bulk vs JIT.

 

[mdk01]

cheaper to ship in bulk vs JIT.

They only have enough to ship in bulk every 3 months, and always in the 3rd month?

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

1st month. You are correct. But why frontload, or backload, exports to the 1st month? If the demand is there why not ship as soon as possible?

They just started model Y ramp, so the factory isn't operating at full capacity yet. Shanghai will eventually be 400-500K/year (3 & Y combined). Shanghai has to supply all of China too. There's only so many vehicles to go around.

Berlin will eventually supply all of Europe. 2 million/year capacity. Production in Berlin should begin before the end of the year.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

They only have enough to ship in bulk every 3 months, and always in the 3rd month?

Are you aware Tesla only has 2 vehicle factories?

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

Australia vehicle sales Jan-Jun 2021.

 

[RUevolution36]

They only have enough to ship in bulk every 3 months, and always in the 3rd month?

seems like it's been planned that way.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Fsg, I have a Chevy Colorado and have it on an angle in the bed with four bungee cords. It is 12 and a half feet so some hangs out, but with the Maverick I would just consider that too much boat to be off the bed, even with that extender setup they have. If it was a whitewater kayak, then I would be fine with it.

 

[mildone]

Australia vehicle sales Jan-Jun 2021.

View embedded media

The Toyota Corolla is absolutely killing it on that chart. More than double everything else listed.

And what's up with the "select ICE vehicle sales" thing? One immediately wonders which ICE cars were included in the chart, where they all ranked, and why they were excluded.

I mean, being an RUFB fan, I really want to know how the Honda Accord ranked, which is clearly far more important than knowing how any of those other cars did.

 

[fsg2]

Good on ya for saving money on racks. Things have gotten way pricy ..even with a big discount.

How do you like the Colorado? What size cab/bed?

Would love to get a ZR2 (Bison) but think payload is too low. I'm also partial to Japanese vehicles.

 

[mildone]

Forbes has an article about Model 3 sales worldwide:

Tesla Model 3 Is Now 16th Bestselling Car In The World

The entry of the Tesla Model 3 into the top 20 of global bestselling cars indicates that ICE’s hold on the car market is starting to melt.

www.forbes.com

Turns out that the Corolla is killing it not just down under, but globally, with 1.13 million sold. I had no idea.

The Model 3, globally, sold 440 thousand, which seems pretty amazing. So the Model 3 is definitely doing great.

 

[fsg2]

The Toyota Corolla is absolutely killing it on that chart. More than double everything else listed.

And what's up with the "select ICE vehicle sales" thing? One immediately wonders which ICE cars were included in the chart, where they all ranked, and why they were excluded.

I mean, being an RUFB fan, I really want to know how the Honda Accord ranked, which is clearly far more important than knowing how any of those other cars did.

Quick look confirms my suspicion that Oz is like the US ...pickups rule, albeit midsize pickups.

Corolla is bestselling car, behind Hilux and Ranger.

 

[mildone]

Quick look confirms my suspicion that Oz is like the US ...pickups rule, albeit midsize pickups.

Corolla is bestselling car, behind Hilux and Ranger.

With all the automotive articles I read, I somehow still didn't realize just how popular the Corolla was. Just read the following, prompted by my surprise at its popularity:

5 Reasons the Toyota Corolla is Still the Most Sold Car on Earth

The Toyota Corolla is a global favorite. It's one of the most well known automotive models on the market. The Toyota Corolla is safe, reliable, and

www.motorbiscuit.com

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Fsg, I really am glad I bought the Colorado. It is a 2012 with about 125,000 miles. Went 85,000 on original tires and 105,000 on original battery. Had some non-major brake work done , a couple hoses replaced, and a couple lights. I have moved several times and have been able to move a lot of stuff, even though it is considered mid-size. I have to admit that I like the look of the new Colorado a lot more. This is the first Chevrolet I have ever had and it has been great. Also glad that a lot of it was made in Louisiana.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Colbert might be able to comment on this, but I read once that Thailand has a huuuge percentage of pick up trucks. I think in America, the highest percentage is in North Dakota, almost 50 percent.

 

[RUevolution36]

With all the automotive articles I read, I somehow still didn't realize just how popular the Corolla was. Just read the following, prompted by my surprise at its popularity:

5 Reasons the Toyota Corolla is Still the Most Sold Car on Earth

The Toyota Corolla is a global favorite. It's one of the most well known automotive models on the market. The Toyota Corolla is safe, reliable, and

www.motorbiscuit.com

With the average size of cars in the US growing so much, we lose sight of how important the compact and subcompact (by our standards anyway) markets are in the rest of the world. No desire for the giant porker sized cars that guzzle gas in other parts of the world.

 

[mildone]

Fsg, I really am glad I bought the Colorado. It is a 2012 with about 125,000 miles. Went 85,000 on original tires and 105,000 on original battery. Had some non-major brake work done , a couple hoses replaced, and a couple lights. I have moved several times and have been able to move a lot of stuff, even though it is considered mid-size. I have to admit that I like the look of the new Colorado a lot more. This is the first Chevrolet I have ever had and it has been great. Also glad that a lot of it was made in Louisiana.

85K on the tires? I don't know how long small pickup tires usually last, but that sounds remarkably good to me. I am pretty sure I've never gone anywhere near that far on any set of tires, even on my old Suburban.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

I am not positive , but I think the originals were Cooper.

 

[mildone]

With the average size of cars in the US growing so much, we lose sight of how important the compact and subcompact (by our standards anyway) markets are in the rest of the world. No desire for the giant porker sized cars that guzzle gas in other parts of the world.

True and good point. I saw what I think was a two-door yellow Fiat on the road a day or two ago. The thing was super tiny, clearly built for navigating narrow European roads, I guess.

Speaking of porker sized cars, I was driving my kid's Nissan Armada earlier today. It's been a few years since I sold my Suburban so I had forgotten just how big those large SUVs feel out on the road. On the one hand, it was nice being up so high after being exclusively in super low cars for a few years. But I think my initial takeaway today is that a mid-sized SUV is probably where I should focus for my next SUV. I think I'm pretty close to ruling out larger SUVs. Maybe.

I still have the Macan (S or GTS) and Kia Telluride holding top spots on my list (yeah, I get that they're very different SUVs). With SUV prices being at a peak at the moment, and there being no urgency, I might wait a bit as Porsche is coming out with a Macan EV soon (2023 maybe?), and it's said to have much better range than the Taycan (not hard to do). I'd probably still go ICE this time, but since I'm waiting on prices to normalize some, it would be nice to test drive a GTS vs the EV before making a decision, and to see what the so-called "much better range" actually winds up being. Maybe I'll be an EV owner sooner than I think.

 

[mdk01]

seems like it's been planned that way.

Isn't that a more benign way of saying what I said????????

 

[mildone]

I am not positive , but I think the originals were Cooper.

I'm confess to being a Michelin fan-boy. But that is for extreme performance tires, which typically don't last nearly as long as normal tires. Pretty sure I had some Cooper tires on the Suburban at one point.

Problem with extreme performance tires is that they are extremely sticky and pick up nails and screws constantly. So even getting to the full tread life potential of the tires is an iffy proposition.

Just recently, on the car I drive the most, I picked up a nail in my passenger side rear tire, at about 22K miles (about half of which were on those summer tires, versus my winter Michelin tires). The summer tires had maybe 35-40% tread life left, maybe a bit more.

Anyway, I ordered replacements for both rears (I wanted to maintain equal tread depths). The tires were about $1000, not including mounting and balancing.

Then a few days later, on the new tires now, I picked up yet another puncture in the driver's side rear.

Doh! 😡 😄

 

[mdk01]

The Toyota Corolla is absolutely killing it on that chart. More than double everything else listed.

And what's up with the "select ICE vehicle sales" thing? One immediately wonders which ICE cars were included in the chart, where they all ranked, and why they were excluded.

I mean, being an RUFB fan, I really want to know how the Honda Accord ranked, which is clearly far more important than knowing how any of those other cars did.

So more model 3's than $80k Porsche's. What a surprise. And the BMW and Mercedes are also more expensive.

 

[mildone]

So more model 3's than $80k Porsche's. What a surprise. And the BMW and Mercedes are also more expensive.

Agree that the chart does seem, at first glance, to be arranged to make a marketing point. Which is fine; all companies do the same.

I would be willing to bet that very few Taycans sell for $80K. That's just another example of misleading marketing. I mean, yeah, it's possible to buy a Porsche for the MSRP (well, some models at least).

But visit the Porsche configurator and play around a little bit and one quickly discovers just how misleading Porsche's stated MSRPs are for all their cars. They are infamous for dozens of ridiculously priced options and brilliant at somehow convincing people they need to select a bunch of those options.

 

[RUevolution36]

Agree that the chart does seem, at first glance, to be arranged to make a marketing point. Which is fine; all companies do the same.

I would be willing to bet that very few Taycans sell for $80K. That's just another example of misleading marketing. I mean, yeah, it's possible to buy a Porsche for the MSRP (well, some models at least).

But visit the Porsche configurator and play around a little bit and one quickly discovers just how misleading Porsche's stated MSRPs are for all their cars. They are infamous for dozens of ridiculously priced options and brilliant at somehow convincing people they need to select a bunch of those options.

Porsche is ridiculous. Was looking at pricing out a Macan S. Quickly went from 64k to 75k because i clicked a couple of options that included leather seats and a couple other things I would have already expected to be included as standard from a luxury brand.

 

[mdk01]

Agree that the chart does seem, at first glance, to be arranged to make a marketing point. Which is fine; all companies do the same.

I would be willing to bet that very few Taycans sell for $80K. That's just another example of misleading marketing. I mean, yeah, it's possible to buy a Porsche for the MSRP (well, some models at least).

But visit the Porsche configurator and play around a little bit and one quickly discovers just how misleading Porsche's stated MSRPs are for all their cars. They are infamous for dozens of ridiculously priced options and brilliant at somehow convincing people they need to select a bunch of those options.

Oh I agree it's a marketing point and all companies do it. It's just that some people don't seem to recognize that fact.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

It's Not Just Tesla: All Other Driver-Assist Systems Work without Drivers, Too​

It's Not Just Tesla: All Other Driver-Assist Systems Work without Drivers, Too

Our testing found that none of today's driver-assistance systems can sniff out drivers aggressively misusing them.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

It's Not Just Tesla: All Other Driver-Assist Systems Work without Drivers, Too​

It's Not Just Tesla: All Other Driver-Assist Systems Work without Drivers, Too

Our testing found that none of today's driver-assistance systems can sniff out drivers aggressively misusing them.

www.caranddriver.com

I saw this earlier. I was critical of Consumer Reports and I will say the same for Car and Driver. I think it is very irresponsible to demonstrate something illegal and show the public how to defeat these safety features. Dumb will always do dumb. Don't give an instruction manual.

 

[mildone]

Porsche is ridiculous. Was looking at pricing out a Macan S. Quickly went from 64k to 75k because i clicked a couple of options that included leather seats and a couple other things I would have already expected to be included as standard from a luxury brand.

They are. I'm a Porsche fan and it's my favorite automaker. But there's no denying their stinginess about including stuff that really ought to be included in the base price of a car with a relatively high starting MSRP. So when looking at their cars, I just mentally add $30K to the base price of any vehicle.

Prior to and up to the middle of the pandemic in 2020, if you shopped nationwide, you could find decent discounts for Macans. I found a dealer in Chicago selling Macan GTSs w/a 10% discount. So you could go online, spec out a build on the configurator and if the dealer had an allocation, put in an order and get that 10% off the MSRP + options total price. I almost ordered one at that point. But held off because I haven't yet settled fully on mid-size versus full-size SUV.

But at the moment, it's hard to find any SUV, Porsche or otherwise, for any kind of discounts off MSRP. Demand is high; supply is low. And used car prices are ridiculous at the moment for the same reason.

 

[mildone]

Oh I agree it's a marketing point and all companies do it. It's just that some people don't seem to recognize that fact.

True.

 

[mildone]

I saw this earlier. I was critical of Consumer Reports and I will say the same for Car and Driver. I think it is very irresponsible to demonstrate something illegal and show the public how to defeat these safety features. Dumb will always do dumb. Don't give an instruction manual.

You'd prefer censorship? There are instruction manuals for far worse things than defeating the all-too-easily defeated not-very-safe safety features available online. Freedom is hard. It requires people to behave responsibly. I vastly prefer freedom with all its many dangers.

The answer isn't trying to hide the lack of safety. Quite the opposite. People who report such easily defeated safety systems are actually part of the solution and should be applauded.

The real solution is getting manufacturers to create better, much less easily defeated safety systems. And these reports clearly highly the fact that manufacturers have failed to do that, so far.

 

[RUevolution36]

They are. I'm a Porsche fan and it's my favorite automaker. But there's no denying their stinginess about including stuff that really ought to be included in the base price of a car with a relatively high starting MSRP. So when looking at their cars, I just mentally add $30K to the base price of any vehicle.

Prior to and up to the middle of the pandemic in 2020, if you shopped nationwide, you could find decent discounts for Macans. I found a dealer in Chicago selling Macan GTSs w/a 10% discount. So you could go online, spec out a build on the configurator and if the dealer had an allocation, put in an order and get that 10% off the MSRP + options total price. I almost ordered one at that point. But held off because I haven't yet settled fully on mid-size versus full-size SUV.

But at the moment, it's hard to find any SUV, Porsche or otherwise, for any kind of discounts off MSRP. Demand is high; supply is low. And used car prices are ridiculous at the moment for the same reason.

@mildone Speaking of Porsche...