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OT: Electric vehicles

I know you have a lot of rules for what experts can be trusted and when, so just checking here since you linked the article. The expert in said article says it has nothing to do with the vehicle, but rather driver behavior, right?

“The study's authors make clear that the results do not indicate Tesla vehicles are inherently unsafe or have design flaws. In fact, Tesla vehicles are loaded with safety technology; the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) named the 2024 Model Y as a Top Safety Pick+ award winner, for example.

“The models on this list likely reflect a combination of driver behavior and driving conditions, leading to increased crashes and fatalities,” iSeeCars executive analyst Karl Brauer said in the report. “A focused, alert driver, traveling at a legal or prudent speed, without being under the influence of drugs or alcohol, is the most likely to arrive safely regardless of the vehicle they’re driving.”
This is a personal observational study, and I am quite neutral on the Tesla brand (not really a fan of the fit, finish and design, but the technology is quite advanced and cool). On the whole Tesla drivers tend to be a-holes, particularly on the GS Parkway. Maybe its the people driving north from Monmouth and Ocean County who own Teslas.
 
I know you have a lot of rules for what experts can be trusted and when, so just checking here since you linked the article. The expert in said article says it has nothing to do with the vehicle, but rather driver behavior, right?

“The study's authors make clear that the results do not indicate Tesla vehicles are inherently unsafe or have design flaws. In fact, Tesla vehicles are loaded with safety technology; the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) named the 2024 Model Y as a Top Safety Pick+ award winner, for example.

“The models on this list likely reflect a combination of driver behavior and driving conditions, leading to increased crashes and fatalities,” iSeeCars executive analyst Karl Brauer said in the report. “A focused, alert driver, traveling at a legal or prudent speed, without being under the influence of drugs or alcohol, is the most likely to arrive safely regardless of the vehicle they’re driving.”
True, perhaps it’s just making brutal acceleration available to the masses that causes the fatal accidents. Or worse, making it available to lots of people with the sort of personality disorder that leads to cult worship.

I don’t have rules so much as I’m skeptical of everything. And perhaps a bit overly cynical.
 
This is a personal observational study, and I am quite neutral on the Tesla brand (not really a fan of the fit, finish and design, but the technology is quite advanced and cool). On the whole Tesla drivers tend to be a-holes, particularly on the GS Parkway. Maybe it’s the people driving north from Monmouth and Ocean County who own Teslas.
It’s not just people driving north from Monmouth and Ocean counties, I see it all over northwestern NJ. But while the percentage of a-hole Tesla drivers does seem higher than typical across most other brands, I still think the a-holes are a relatively small minority. And I see similarly higher numbers of a-hole drivers in various BMWs and, oddly, Priuses.

Also, I’ve noticed that the Tesla-specific a-holes are mostly in model Ys, not so much S’s. In my experience, model S drivers seem more interested in range preservation. Or at least, they are very often found driving very slowly in the right lane or exactly the speed limit on country roads. I’m just assuming it’s for range. Who knows.
 
Charged from 29% to 80% (53 Kw) in 25 min. at a Tesla SC. It is a better experience than EA.
Pretty much everyone agrees that the Tesla charging stations are better than everybody else's. Musk should use a fraction of his net worth and donate millions of Tesla public chargers to place everywhere.
 
3 months in on a Chevy Blazer EV. I wanted to dip the toe into the EV world and went with a cheap lease through a family friend (and when I say cheap, it was disgustingly cheap). We looked at a Rivian and also the EV9 but Chevy had a short term lease that was ideal in seeing if we wanted to ride the EV wave or not.

I kind of like it. Smooth, nice acceleration. No major glitches other than a situation where the physical knobs to control the HVAC stopped working (you could still use the touch screen controls) but there was an easy remedy via the Chevy EV forums and after that it's been smooth sailing.

Will be interesting to see what other models come out when our lease is up in 2 years. We'd probably go EV again for our second car.
 
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I am pissed at Marriott for advertising EV charging at the hotel but the valet said it broke months ago.
Very annoying. The first few times I got my car and it was fully charged I was pleasantly surprised. Now I’ve come to expect it and when it’s not I’m disappointed
 
Just a couple days after Tesla releasing some disappointing delivery numbers(below their own guidance as well as analysts expectations, and though it was their best ever quarterly numbers, for the year deliveries were down 1%), the US legacies post some surprisingly good growth numbers.

"Ford sold 30,176 all-electric cars in the fourth quarter, up about 16% year over. Mustang Mach-E sales led the way up 36%. F-150 Lightning sales lagged down about 10%."

"GM sold about 44,000 all-electric cars -- a quarterly record, and up about 126% year over year. For the year, GM sold about 114,000 EVs, up more than 50% compared with 2023."
 
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Any reason why the F-150 Lightning is lagging in sales when others are soaring?
My guess is people who drive pickup trucks aren’t yet sold on EVs whereas people looking for EVs who aren’t truck people look for more general-purpose vehicle types like the Mustang Mach-E or Model Y or similar cross-over style vehicles.
 
Any reason why the F-150 Lightning is lagging in sales when others are soaring?

My guess is people who drive pickup trucks aren’t yet sold on EVs whereas people looking for EVs who aren’t truck people look for more general-purpose vehicle types like the Mustang Mach-E or Model Y or similar cross-over style vehicles.
Ya i think in general a “truck guy” is not at the forefront of those that want an EV(edit).

I also think that people that use trucks for work do not want to be in a position where that can’t refill their vehicles quickly wherever they are.
 
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Ya i think in general a “truck guy” is not at the forefront of those that want a pickup truck.

I also think that people that use trucks for work do not want to be in a position where that can’t refill their vehicles quickly wherever they are.
I think you meant to write: "those that want an EV pickup truck", in that first sentence, yes?

But yeah, I agree that there are pragmatic, practical reasons for many truck folks to prefer gas at the moment. To your point, I'm guessing public charging is far more sparse, geographically speaking, across middle America.

Also, from what I see in various car forums, there are plenty of people who reject the idea of electrification of cars due to their ideological affinity (i.e. EVs are "green" and everything green is bad, so they'll "never" buy a pure EV or hybrid). Not so pragmatic a reason, but whatever.

I would guess that that sort of thinking probably resonates more strongly in middle America than on the coasts. If that guess is accurate, and given that pickup trucks are wildly popular across middle America, that would also help explain why EV pickups might be experiencing slower growth than other vehicle types.

Perhaps Musk's foray into politics will help alter that ideologically driven element of the equation - time will tell.
 
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Any reason why the F-150 Lightning is lagging in sales when others are soaring?
2024, Ford sold 33,510 F-150 Lightning electric pickup trucks, which was a 39% increase from the previous year.

Not sure who is out selling in the EV truck category. I do think it’s a niche market. The more popular F150 will be the hybrid. The range for EV is just too short
 
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I’m at a Tesla SC. On my way back from Boston. Not sure if it’s the temp or wind, but only getting 1.6 miles per KW. That’s a 20% decrease than the drive up. Frustrating
 
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I’m at a Tesla SC. On my way back from Boston. Not sure if it’s the temp or wind, but only getting 1.6 miles per KW. That’s a 20% decrease than the drive up. Frustrating
These sorts of stories (I hear similar things elsewhere) are not helping me get to a point where I'd want a pure EV SUV. And the Tesla SCs are the best, so we can just imagine how bad it is with lesser public charging.

I still think EVs are great for folks who want to use them for travel around town and then back home to charge. But for folks who want the vehicle for travel, it seems like hybrids might be a better choice.
 
Part 2 of my journey. Looks like the temp was the main factor on reduced range. I’m at 95% of the expected range because the outside temp is in the mid 30s. The 1st half was in the mid 20s.
 
These sorts of stories (I hear similar things elsewhere) are not helping me get to a point where I'd want a pure EV SUV. And the Tesla SCs are the best, so we can just imagine how bad it is with lesser public charging.

I still think EVs are great for folks who want to use them for travel around town and then back home to charge. But for folks who want the vehicle for travel, it seems like hybrids might be a better choice.
Your comment is correct about longer travel regardless, but I think he’s saying that his truck is getting less range because of the cold, nothing to do with the chargers
 
2024, Ford sold 33,510 F-150 Lightning electric pickup trucks, which was a 39% increase from the previous year.

Not sure who is out selling in the EV truck category. I do think it’s a niche market. The more popular F150 will be the hybrid. The range for EV is just too short
Niche is guys like you and me who wanted a pickup truck for a long time but only do truck things a handful of times per year. I love the Lariat trim. It is nicer and more comfortable than the Audis I owned. I would trade my Lightning for a hybrid that has a battery that is rechargeable by a small gasoline engine. But not yet.
 
It’s ok. I have a tonneau cover. I’m close to trading in my Lighting for a Silverado. Just need a sale on 2024 leftover for around 80k.
Silverado ICE or EV? Watched a video review comparison of the Silverado EV with Lightning, and the Lightning came out on top. I prefer the GMC trucks over the Chevy trucks, but that is a matter of personal taste.
 
Silverado ICE or EV? Watched a video review comparison of the Silverado EV with Lightning, and the Lightning came out on top. I prefer the GMC trucks over the Chevy trucks, but that is a matter of personal taste.
EV. It has a 240V outlet. Like the 400+miles range, mid-gate that gives you up to 10 ft and the all wheel steering. What I don’t like is the price tag.
 
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EV. It has a 240V outlet. Like the 400+miles range, mid-gate that gives you up to 10 ft and the all wheel steering. What I don’t like is the price tag.
Here's the comparison video:



The truck I was thinking about is the Ramcharger, and it is supposed to come out this year. 690 miles of range. Been driving Ram pickup trucks on our trips to Arizona lately, and they are nice inside.


 
EV. It has a 240V outlet. Like the 400+miles range, mid-gate that gives you up to 10 ft and the all wheel steering. What I don’t like is the price tag.
Life is short. We only live once (probably). It’s only money. We can’t take it with us. Just do it!

OTOH, it could be that I am not the exact ideal person to listen to when it comes to spending money on cars. 😀
 
Just a couple days after Tesla releasing some disappointing delivery numbers(below their own guidance as well as analysts expectations, and though it was their best ever quarterly numbers, for the year deliveries were down 1%), the US legacies post some surprisingly good growth numbers.

"Ford sold 30,176 all-electric cars in the fourth quarter, up about 16% year over. Mustang Mach-E sales led the way up 36%. F-150 Lightning sales lagged down about 10%."

"GM sold about 44,000 all-electric cars -- a quarterly record, and up about 126% year over year. For the year, GM sold about 114,000 EVs, up more than 50% compared with 2023."

2024, Ford sold 33,510 F-150 Lightning electric pickup trucks, which was a 39% increase from the previous year.

Not sure who is out selling in the EV truck category. I do think it’s a niche market. The more popular F150 will be the hybrid. The range for EV is just too short
EV Truck SalesQ4 SalesLast Year Q4 SalesQuarterly % ChangeYear-to-DateLast Year-to-DateYear-over-Year % Change
Tesla
CT
9,6001068956.631,71410629818.9
Ford
Lightning
10,70311,905-10.133,51024,16538.7

Despite being down 10% for the quarter, the Lightning outside the Cybertruck in the 4th Quarter and for the entire year. 😂 😂
 
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“It’s a great product, but financially, it will take, I don’t know, a year to 18 months before it is a significant positive cash flow contributor,” Musk said in the October 2023 call. But, ever the showman, Musk couldn’t resist injecting some hype.
“The demand is off the charts,” he said. “We have over 1 million people who have reserved the car.”
But more than a year later, that demand appears to have dried up.

Meanwhile, dozens of limited edition Foundation Series Cybertrucks, the first version of the truck to go on sale, were piling up in the automaker’s inventory, leading Tesla to reportedly start buffing the badging off so they could be sold as regular models.
 
“It’s a great product, but financially, it will take, I don’t know, a year to 18 months before it is a significant positive cash flow contributor,” Musk said in the October 2023 call. But, ever the showman, Musk couldn’t resist injecting some hype.
“The demand is off the charts,” he said. “We have over 1 million people who have reserved the car.”
But more than a year later, that demand appears to have dried up.

Meanwhile, dozens of limited edition Foundation Series Cybertrucks, the first version of the truck to go on sale, were piling up in the automaker’s inventory, leading Tesla to reportedly start buffing the badging off so they could be sold as regular models.
The 1mm order was due to false advertising that it would sell for under 40k. Thanks for posting the video. I think the best fit for me is the R1S. I just have to get over the fact that it doesn’t have a 220V output.
 
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The 1mm order was due to false advertising that it would sell for under 40k. Thanks for posting the video. I think the best fit for me is the R1S. I just have to get over the fact that it doesn’t have a 220V output.
Why the need for 220V? If it is something infrequent, could you get a 220V capable portable power station?

While that video gave the nod to the Lightning (was surprised about the storage), I was not that impressed with the review. I was keen on the GMC/Chevy for the fold in rear doors, however, I have a reasonable bias against GM products based on experience. As I noted above, I like that 690 mile range Dodge Ram hybrid that should be out, but I have heard mixed reviews of that technology, and not sure about Dodge/RAM.
 
I think you meant to write: "those that want an EV pickup truck", in that first sentence, yes?

But yeah, I agree that there are pragmatic, practical reasons for many truck folks to prefer gas at the moment. To your point, I'm guessing public charging is far more sparse, geographically speaking, across middle America.

Also, from what I see in various car forums, there are plenty of people who reject the idea of electrification of cars due to their ideological affinity (i.e. EVs are "green" and everything green is bad, so they'll "never" buy a pure EV or hybrid). Not so pragmatic a reason, but whatever.

I would guess that that sort of thinking probably resonates more strongly in middle America than on the coasts. If that guess is accurate, and given that pickup trucks are wildly popular across middle America, that would also help explain why EV pickups might be experiencing slower growth than other vehicle types.

Perhaps Musk's foray into politics will help alter that ideologically driven element of the equation - time will tell.
Ya, finally put that edit in.

And I do think there are some legit practical reasons for it, as well as some less practical ones.
 
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“It’s a great product, but financially, it will take, I don’t know, a year to 18 months before it is a significant positive cash flow contributor,” Musk said in the October 2023 call. But, ever the showman, Musk couldn’t resist injecting some hype.
“The demand is off the charts,” he said. “We have over 1 million people who have reserved the car.”
But more than a year later, that demand appears to have dried up.

Meanwhile, dozens of limited edition Foundation Series Cybertrucks, the first version of the truck to go on sale, were piling up in the automaker’s inventory, leading Tesla to reportedly start buffing the badging off so they could be sold as regular models.
They need to remake the body of the CT. There are some who are into it because it's so unique, and there are some who will love anything Elon does, but most people I talk to think that thing is stupid looking.

I imagine a remake is not more then a year or two off.
 
Why the need for 220V? If it is something infrequent, could you get a 220V capable portable power station?

While that video gave the nod to the Lightning (was surprised about the storage), I was not that impressed with the review. I was keen on the GMC/Chevy for the fold in rear doors, however, I have a reasonable bias against GM products based on experience. As I noted above, I like that 690 mile range Dodge Ram hybrid that should be out, but I have heard mixed reviews of that technology, and not sure about Dodge/RAM.
I'm guessing it's a faster charge?
 
They need to remake the body of the CT. There are some who are into it because it's so unique, and there are some who will love anything Elon does, but most people I talk to think that thing is stupid looking.

I imagine a remake is not more then a year or two off.
Agreed. To me, so many impractical things. The windshield with one windshield wiper, the body styling, the stainless steel or whatever it is exterior, the rear tonneau cover that I believe covers the rear window. I'm neutral on Elon, and like I was on Steve Jobs, who had personality quirks. Can't deny that both of them are geniuses and "pretty good" at marketing. They make interesting products that are not necessarily for the masses, but they both did a lot to advance their respective technologies. Like musicians and actors, I ignore whatever their politics are.

I'm guessing it's a faster charge?
Boy did that point go way over my head!!! Doh!
 
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Agreed. To me, so many impractical things. The windshield with one windshield wiper, the body styling, the stainless steel or whatever it is exterior, the rear tonneau cover that I believe covers the rear window. I'm neutral on Elon, and like I was on Steve Jobs, who had personality quirks. Can't deny that both of them are geniuses and "pretty good" at marketing. They make interesting products that are not necessarily for the masses, but they both did a lot to advance their respective technologies. Like musicians and actors, I ignore whatever their politics are.


Boy did that point go way over my head!!! Doh!
I think people would deal with the impractical things if it looked cool. But it looks ridiculous.

And throughout this thread I've belabored this point, but the CT really does look that stupid, that it is a point worth belaboring.
 
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