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OT: Electric vehicles

Some of the realities of our EV future...


Here's a good reason to keep pumping oil and gas. Anyone can play this game.

 
Here's a good reason to keep pumping oil and gas. Anyone can play this game.

Why do you keep thinking that anything that's not a glowing endorsement of EV's is an attack against it? Anything and everything we do in this space is going to have benefits, but also costs. Nothing is just rainbows and butterflies. Eggs will be broken to bake the cake.
 
Why do you keep thinking that anything that's not a glowing endorsement of EV's is an attack against it? Anything and everything we do in this space is going to have benefits, but also costs. Nothing is just rainbows and butterflies. Eggs will be broken to bake the cake.

Blasphemer!!!!!!
 
Why do you keep thinking that anything that's not a glowing endorsement of EV's is an attack against it? Anything and everything we do in this space is going to have benefits, but also costs. Nothing is just rainbows and butterflies. Eggs will be broken to bake the cake.
He skipped right past "we need to do better" and jumped all over whataboutism.
 
Why do you keep thinking that anything that's not a glowing endorsement of EV's is an attack against it? Anything and everything we do in this space is going to have benefits, but also costs. Nothing is just rainbows and butterflies. Eggs will be broken to bake the cake.
I convinced WhichReligion is Tesla bot. Seriously.
 
Keep in mind he was using that speech to fire up his employees, especially dropping the $250 p/sh number. No better way to motivate than by telling them they could all be rich beyond their wildest dreams.
Or..... No better way to motivate than telling them they could soon be unemployed.
 
Some of the realities of our EV future...

LFP (lithium, iron, phosphate) batteries need to become the primary chemistry for most standard range EVs. High nickel cathodes for long range and high mass vehicles.

I wonder if those screaming about human rights in the DRC realize their cell phones and laptops have cobalt in their batteries.
 
LFP (lithium, iron, phosphate) batteries need to become the primary chemistry for most standard range EVs. High nickel cathodes for long range and high mass vehicles.

I wonder if those screaming about human rights in the DRC realize their cell phones and laptops have cobalt in their batteries.
China is busy enslaving the world. What they do on their western border we have heard about.. the ethnic cleansing of the Uyghurs.. but they are doing that through bought-off cooperative tyrannical governments all over the 3rd world (in your example the DRC for Cobalt and other resources) .. while harnessing UN voting power. And I do not doubt they "own" a lot of US politicians and business "leaders".. especially in tech.

As we demand solar and wind and EVs to "save the planet".. we are playing right into China's bloody claws.

How China wants us the see them...
FRK3PV3MRVBRJHAB63DVROZSUM.jpg


what they really are..
41bec18b519a42219378ab7877413b04.jpg
 
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China is busy enslaving the world. What they do on their western border we have heard about.. the ethnic cleansing of the Uyghurs.. but they are doing that through bought-off cooperative tyrannical governments all over the 3rd world (in your example the DRC for Cobalt and other resources) .. while harnessing UN voting power. And I do not doubt they "own" a lot of US politicians and business "leaders".. especially in tech.

As we demand solar and wind and EVs to "save the planet".. we are playing right into China's bloody claws.

How China wants us the see them...
FRK3PV3MRVBRJHAB63DVROZSUM.jpg


what they really are..
41bec18b519a42219378ab7877413b04.jpg

Reported by the UK press. China is fast becoming a colonial power, but the US press doesn't seem interested.
 
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Reported by the UK press. China is fast becoming a colonial power, but the US press doesn't seem interested.
big corporations and media are an incestuous combination.. and politicians on both sides as well... that's why. You can see why Lebron backed off and apologized way back when... but that kind of thing is everywhere and prevents things from ever being said.. probably 10,000 cases of people and media not saying anything for every case of someone speaking their mind and then apologizing.
 
China is busy enslaving the world. What they do on their western border we have heard about.. the ethnic cleansing of the Uyghurs.. but they are doing that through bought-off cooperative tyrannical governments all over the 3rd world (in your example the DRC for Cobalt and other resources) .. while harnessing UN voting power. And I do not doubt they "own" a lot of US politicians and business "leaders".. especially in tech.

As we demand solar and wind and EVs to "save the planet".. we are playing right into China's bloody claws.

How China wants us the see them...
FRK3PV3MRVBRJHAB63DVROZSUM.jpg


what they really are..
41bec18b519a42219378ab7877413b04.jpg
Reported by the UK press. China is fast becoming a colonial power, but the US press doesn't seem interested.
We should be careful to not throw stones at glass houses. We fought wars to try and control the world's oil supply. We also look the other way when our "friends" in Saudi Arabia tortured and killed Khashoggi. Control of natural resources has been the source of power throughout all of human history. It's why we try to win the middle east, why China wants Africa, and the Russians continue to bankroll Venezuela.
 
We should be careful to not throw stones at glass houses. We fought wars to try and control the world's oil supply. We also look the other way when our "friends" in Saudi Arabia tortured and killed Khashoggi. Control of natural resources has been the source of power throughout all of human history. It's why we try to win the middle east, why China wants Africa, and the Russians continue to bankroll Venezuela.

We're certainly anything perfect, but remember, we prevented Saddam Hussein from controlling the world's supply but left the Saudi's in charge of it. And in 1973 we suffered a terrible recession which still impacts us today but did not invade or militarily threaten the OPEC. And while the internment of the West Coast Japanese is truly shameful, what the Chinese are doing to the Uyghurs is beyond the pale. You can point top the treatment of the Native Americans, but that was over 120 years ago.
 
We're certainly anything perfect, but remember, we prevented Saddam Hussein from controlling the world's supply but left the Saudi's in charge of it. And in 1973 we suffered a terrible recession which still impacts us today but did not invade or militarily threaten the OPEC. And while the internment of the West Coast Japanese is truly shameful, what the Chinese are doing to the Uyghurs is beyond the pale. You can point top the treatment of the Native Americans, but that was over 120 years ago.
China is sometimes more openly brutal than we are in how it goes about working to secure it's future. And they have an entirely different way of viewing human rights than we do in the West.

But if we're being self-honest, we have to also realize we're pretty heavily biased (I know I am) towards overlooking the stuff we do versus the stuff other nations might be doing (all the collateral damage that occurs during our various invasions, for instance). I'm a US citizen and so even when we do bad shit, I am often going to justify it as protecting my children's future (but I'm not going to pretend we're any kind of angels, either).

I think relative comparisons of goodness/badness and broad demonization are almost entirely useless, and quite possibly counter-productive to our best interests. Stamping our feet in outrage, engaging in anti-China rhetoric, these things solve nothing at all. They are wholly impotent gestures that accomplish nothing so much as to justify, from China's point of view, their efforts to continue rapidly increasing their military capability.

What actually matters is being geopolitically well positioned for the future. And positioning China as "the enemy" in a militaristic sense (right or wrong) is a pointless and futile thing unless one side is crazy enough to risk a nuclear war.

The "China" problem is not going to be solved militarily. So sooner or later, a US administration is going to stop wasting time with populist rhetoric and work to win the only war that's feasible here; a diplomatic war.

Where's Nixon when we need him?
 
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China is sometimes more openly brutal than we are in how it goes about working to secure it's future. And they have an entirely different way of viewing human rights than we do in the West.

But if we're being self-honest, we have to also realize we're pretty heavily biased (I know I am) towards overlooking the stuff we do versus the stuff other nations might be doing (all the collateral damage that occurs during our various invasions, for instance). I'm a US citizen and so even when we do bad shit, I am often going to justify it as protecting my children's future (but I'm not going to pretend we're any kind of angels, either).

I think relative comparisons of goodness/badness and broad demonization are almost entirely useless, and quite possibly counter-productive to our best interests. Stamping our feet in outrage, engaging in anti-China rhetoric, these things solve nothing at all. They are wholly impotent gestures that accomplish nothing so much as to justify, from China's point of view, their efforts to continue rapidly increasing their military capability.

What actually matters is being geopolitically well positioned for the future. And positioning China as "the enemy" in a militaristic sense (right or wrong) is a pointless and futile thing unless one side is crazy enough to risk a nuclear war.

The "China" problem is not going to be solved militarily. So sooner or later, a US administration is going to stop wasting time with populist rhetoric and work to win the only war that's feasible here; a diplomatic war.

Where's Nixon when we need him?
1000% true. in the age of the global supply chain, as well as everyone having a common set of environmental sustainability goals (timelines differ, but the goals are the same), it doesn't benefit anyone except the military industrial complex to warmonger with every perceived threat.

in terms of EVs, the need for these natural resources is going to be a race by the manufacturing powers to see who can get there first. unfortunately, it usually ends up being the third world country that has it, but doesn't have the capital to invest to get it that loses out. we know how this game goes, and it's really up to the consumer to demand better of these companies. exploitation leads to famine, unrest, and ultimately, war. and in this case, could be entirely preventable.
 
Will there be any EVs in Fast and Furious 10? And more importantly, will the Rock rejoin his family?

I don’t know, but I find the Vin Diesel instagram pressure pretty funny.

the rock has said on a few different occasions that he won't do another FF with that team because he finds them so unprofessional.
 
I hate those f*ckin' movies.

"You owe me a 10 second car."

Yeah, right. Like your little JDM Civic could ever crack 10.
those little JDM civics can definitely crack the 10s with enough work.


 
those little JDM civics can definitely crack the 10s with enough work.



Neither one of these cars is street legal. The car in the movie was.
 
Neither one of these cars is street legal. The car in the movie was.
i had friends in HS driving non-street legal cars (civics, integras, eclipses, an MR2) that they would detune for the purposes of passing inspection. they were running in the 12s on slicks at the track, on a relatively light budget compared to what some of these more professional (or those with extra $$$) folks can do.

 
i had friends in HS driving non-street legal cars (civics, integras, eclipses, an MR2) that they would detune for the purposes of passing inspection. they were running in the 12s on slicks at the track, on a relatively light budget compared to what some of these more professional (or those with extra $$$) folks can do.


A 12 second quarter is no longer a big deal. My lightly tuned Audi (stock except for ECT & DCT) will run mid-12s on all-season Hankooks (sport mode, launch control enabled).

The problem is there's a big, big difference in the power required to run a 12 and what's required to run a 10. For an average compact car (so, total unmodified weight of around 3,000 lbs) it take >650 hp to get to 10 seconds. You can't really get that kind of power from a 1.8 turbo 4 without modifications that run well into 6 figures.
 
A 12 second quarter is no longer a big deal. My lightly tuned Audi (stock except for ECT & DCT) will run mid-12s on all-season Hankooks (sport mode, launch control enabled).

The problem is there's a big, big difference in the power required to run a 12 and what's required to run a 10. For an average compact car (so, total unmodified weight of around 3,000 lbs) it take >650 hp to get to 10 seconds. You can't really get that kind of power from a 1.8 turbo 4 without modifications that run well into 6 figures.
but cost wasn't discussed in FF, so i don't consider it a factor. they can run 10s and even 9s with an unlimited budget and some can be kept street legal...including an engine swap to a 2.0L 4 banger.
 
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but cost wasn't discussed in FF, so i don't consider it a factor. they can run 10s and even 9s with an unlimited budget and some can be kept street legal...including an engine swap to a 2.0L 4 banger.

I think we're playing fast and loose with the definition of "street legal".

Real world example: my car went from 232 bhp (stock) to 328 bhp. As I said, it's still "stock", except for the ECU tune to get the extra 90ish horsepower and the TCU tune for the DSG, which gets me more clamping pressure from the clutches and remapped shift points.

I could get it to 400 bhp pretty easily, but to do so would require swapping out the turbo for one that's capable of more boost, as well as some modifications to the common rail (high pressure side) fuel system. That's fine, and still "street legal". BUT - to get 400 horsepower I would also have to drop the stock cat and replace it with a high-flow cat. That comes with an ECU patch that, specific to the converter, does absolutely nothing but cancel out the CEL that would be thrown by the installation of the high-flow cat. At that point, it's no longer technically street legal.

Now, could I do it and get away with it and have nobody bother me and nobody be any the wiser? Sure. Absolutely. But it's *not* legal.

**Edit**

The point here is that you can't get the required power from a boosted 4 without eliminating the flow restrictions, and the bulk of those flow restrictions are caused by the catalytic converter. Altering that component in any way is, strictly speaking, not legal.
 
I think we're playing fast and loose with the definition of "street legal".

Real world example: my car went from 232 bhp (stock) to 328 bhp. As I said, it's still "stock", except for the ECU tune to get the extra 90ish horsepower and the TCU tune for the DSG, which gets me more clamping pressure from the clutches and remapped shift points.

I could get it to 400 bhp pretty easily, but to do so would require swapping out the turbo for one that's capable of more boost, as well as some modifications to the common rail (high pressure side) fuel system. That's fine, and still "street legal". BUT - to get 400 horsepower I would also have to drop the stock cat and replace it with a high-flow cat. That comes with an ECU patch that, specific to the converter, does absolutely nothing but cancel out the CEL that would be thrown by the installation of the high-flow cat. At that point, it's no longer technically street legal.

Now, could I do it and get away with it and have nobody bother me and nobody be any the wiser? Sure. Absolutely. But it's *not* legal.
well...yes. my friends' cars were "legal" in that they passed inspection after some pre-inspection mods that were immediately put back in place after leaving the garage that inspected it.

and in some cases...the garage that did the inspection also did the work to put everything back in place
 
well...yes. my friends' cars were "legal" in that they passed inspection after some pre-inspection mods that were immediately put back in place after leaving the garage that inspected it.

and in some cases...the garage that did the inspection also did the work to put everything back in place

Those were the good ol' days, right?

Many a time have I trundled off to my local, friendly garage and slipped the guy a little bit of legal tender in exchange for a current inspection sticker.

You can't do that anymore. Which is a little sad, but it just forces us to be more creative, or spend more money.

Personally, I have a reasonably low threshold of personal satisfaction when it comes to this sort of thing. I waited for my warranty to expire, then promptly dropped about $1500 for purely electronic upgrades that have given me a car that will outrun pretty much anything on the road that costs less than $75k brand new. It won't outrun @mildone and his awesome Carrera, but I'm okay with that. 😁
 
Since the game is unwatchable ...


your hero never does these things without an angle. he also uses the teslarati to his benefit. when share prices fall, gains aren't as much, he doesn't have to pay as much in tax. he just has all of you guys wrapped around his little pinky.
 

your hero never does these things without an angle. he also uses the teslarati to his benefit. when share prices fall, gains aren't as much, he doesn't have to pay as much in tax. he just has all of you guys wrapped around his little pinky.
4a5d2-dudley-do-righttim-jordan-print.jpeg

Yes, truly an evil genius.
Does Elon Musk make the world a better place?
 
what's politically correct or woke about wanting to reduce emissions?

Because that want to shut down currently operating nukes which achieves the opposite. Germany is touted for all the investments they made in wind in solar but they're burning more coal as well because they shut their nuclear plants early.
 

your hero never does these things without an angle. he also uses the teslarati to his benefit. when share prices fall, gains aren't as much, he doesn't have to pay as much in tax. he just has all of you guys wrapped around his little pinky.

There are some very questionable assumptions in that about the proposed buyback provisions in the corporate AMT proposal. And it barely touches on the fact that Musk will pay income tax and Medicaid on the W-2 income, on the exercise. I've read nothing that says that W-2 income paid to officers would not be deductible under the new AMT rules.
 
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