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OT: Electric vehicles

You can make any old statement you want, but it is still just your opinion. IDGAS about your opinions. I am interested in real analysis and facts. You haven't brought any facts yet.

Actually, all I brought were real facts based on being involved in the industry at a level beyond fanboy tweets. And they're rooted in low, simple numbers, so anyone can follow along.

Fact: Audi debuted the first Level 3 system in 2017.

Fact: Mercedes and Honda have Level 3 systems ready to go.

Fact: Despite overselling it at various points throughout its history, and mislabeling it Autopilot, Tesla's never actually debuted anything beyond Level 2.

Fact: 3 > 2.
 
YES! Praise the Musk.
I know, right?

I just don’t understand people who do this cult worship stuff. Not for religions, not for politicians, not for car companies. I guess I lack the worship gene.
 
Actually, all I brought were real facts based on being involved in the industry at a level beyond fanboy tweets. And they're rooted in low, simple numbers, so anyone can follow along.

Fact: Audi debuted the first Level 3 system in 2017.

Fact: Mercedes and Honda have Level 3 systems ready to go.

Fact: Despite overselling it at various points throughout its history, and mislabeling it Autopilot, Tesla's never actually debuted anything beyond Level 2.

Fact: 3 > 2.
Good post.

I’ve found that no amount of facts and logic can overcome a cult worshiper’s denial of everything that doesn’t comport with their belief-driven, fiercely-clung-to narrative.
 
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Actually, all I brought were real facts based on being involved in the industry at a level beyond fanboy tweets. And they're rooted in low, simple numbers, so anyone can follow along.

Fact: Audi debuted the first Level 3 system in 2017.

Fact: Mercedes and Honda have Level 3 systems ready to go.

Fact: Despite overselling it at various points throughout its history, and mislabeling it Autopilot, Tesla's never actually debuted anything beyond Level 2.

Fact: 3 > 2.
What do you classify the current beta FSD?
 

Meanwhile...

You guys are hilarious. Ignorant and arrogant isn't a good combo.

Waymo relies on 3D mapping and only works in geo-fenced areas. There's a reason it's only being used on select roads within Phoenix (not the whole city). 3 years later, it will be available on certain roads within San Francisco. So unless Waymo plans on 3D mapping every road in the country it's not scalable.

As for Elon's tweet. Version 9.2 being "not great" means there's not a noticeable difference from version 9.1. Why didn't you include today's tweet about version 9.3? The beta software is updated approx every 2 weeks.
 
You guys are hilarious. Ignorant and arrogant isn't a good combo.

Waymo relies on 3D mapping and only works in geo-fenced areas. There's a reason it's only being used on select roads within Phoenix (not the whole city). 3 years later, it will be available on certain roads within San Francisco. So unless Waymo plans on 3D mapping every road in the country it's not scalable.

As for Elon's tweet. Version 9.2 being "not great" means there's not a noticeable difference from version 9.1. Why didn't you include today's tweet about version 9.3? The beta software is updated approx every 2 weeks.
No company should be releasing beta software that could be potentially harmful to people safety to the general public. It's irresponsible.
 
No company should be releasing beta software that could be potentially harmful to people safety to the general public. It's irresponsible.
It's been out since October. The testers were individually selected. No incidences to report and continues to improve.
No amount of closed track or simulated driving will solve autonomy. You need lots and lots of real world data. It's the only way to do it.
 
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Yes, Audi's Traffic Jam Pilot was designed for complete hands-free use in select situations. They billed it as reading a magazine or watching TV hands-free.
Ha! I suggest you get off your level analysis and actually see what the vehicles can and can't do. Audi's system is limited to certain roads, in certain situations, and limited to 37 mph. That was 2 years ago. What progress has been made since? Looks like a dead end.
Your hatred of Elon is making you look like a moron.
 
DOA


Yes ...and?

The question was whether or not Tesla is light years beyond everyone else in autonomous tech. It clearly is not.

FOUR years ago Audi had L3 ready, demoed for journos. Others have followed. Tesla still doesn't.

Not sure why the myth that Tesla is so far beyond everyone persists.
 
Ha! I suggest you get off your level analysis and actually see what the vehicles can and can't do. Audi's system is limited to certain roads, in certain situations, and limited to 37 mph. That was 2 years ago. What progress has been made since? Looks like a dead end.
Your hatred of Elon is making you look like a moron.

Except the levels define all that. Tesla's system is not made for the same level of hands-free operation. Tesla has admitted such.

Your Musk masturbation has made you a (one-note) moron, period. Everyone sees it but you.
 
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Lest anyone forget, here's what you said:

"The reveal of the humanoid robot overshadowed the fact that Tesla is going to eventually get to fully autonomous vehicles. They're in the lead, their lead is growing, and no one else is close."

Are they really that far in the lead, DogCrap?
 
There's a couple thousand people driving it right now.
Curious of your thoughts on the AI Day presentation since you're a big software guy. You've got a lot to say, so I assume you've seen it.
Tesla’s “AI Day”, like all such self-promoting events from most companies, held zero interest for me.
 
Uh-oh. The whole EV competition is over and Audi has won.

Audi is saying it's e-tron GT has 'Unrivaled Performance". Since the Tesla fanboys are saying that automaker marketing hyperbole is acceptable as fact, I guess we can put the whole "best EV company" to bed now.

In other news, I have to switch to Crest toothpaste. Because 4 out of 5 dentists recommend it.
 
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Long run, was there ever any doubt?
It is a very nice looking car. Probably my favorite EV sedan, appearance-wise. I know you like Audis.

Porsche has thrown in the towel and is now going with gimmicks like offering the Taycan in a wide variety of colors. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a37384905/2022-porsche-taycan-updates-revealed. Those pikers.

Gotta say, though, that the looks and performance of the Porsche Turismo "family station wagons", available in both the Panamera and Taycan, are kind of enticing.
 
Yes ...and?

The question was whether or not Tesla is light years beyond everyone else in autonomous tech. It clearly is not.

FOUR years ago Audi had L3 ready, demoed for journos. Others have followed. Tesla still doesn't.

Not sure why the myth that Tesla is so far beyond everyone persists.
Sandy Munro has driven just about everyone's self driving software (including Audi), and called them "crap" compared to Tesla. If Audi's system is so great, where is it? Why isn't anyone talking about it? It's hard to find more than a handful of old articles about it. Audi bailed on their own system because they tried and failed. It's essentially useless. Get a clue.

You're the only one talking about levels. Tesla never stated "we aspire to be level 3, then 4...". That's not their path, it never was.

Name another system that can change lanes, stop for lights and signs, anticipate the actions of other drivers and pedestrians, navigate intersections, detect road texture and speed bumps. I'll be waiting.
 
Tesla’s “AI Day”, like all such self-promoting events from most companies, held zero interest for me.
Shocking.
The self proclaimed software guru might have actually learned something. I guess it's just easier on the brain to call out "fan boys". Carry on.
 
Porsche has some new electric concept that they're showing at the new Munich show next month.

I'd get
Sandy Munro has driven just about everyone's self driving software (including Audi), and called them "crap" compared to Tesla. If Audi's system is so great, where is it? Why isn't anyone talking about it? It's hard to find more than a handful of old articles about it. Audi bailed on their own system because they tried and failed. It's essentially useless. Get a clue.

You're the only one talking about levels. Tesla never stated "we aspire to be level 3, then 4...". That's not their path, it never was.

Name another system that can change lanes, stop for lights and signs, anticipate the actions of other drivers and pedestrians, navigate intersections, detect road texture and speed bumps. I'll be waiting.

I'm the one talking about levels because I know wtf I'm talking about. Tesla prefers to remain vague because it likes to promote that aura of untouchable advancement for which suckers like you continue to fall. But when pressed by actual gov regulators, Tesla goes ahead and quantifies using those very same numbers. We'll, one recurring number, at least: 2.

Meanwhile, fanboy suckers (you) quote Tesla adverts, repeating buzzwords like "fully autonomous" vehicles, without really knowing wtf you're actually talking about. It's right in the Tesla name - Full Self Driving, which means Level 5, take a nap and never touch a steering wheel (if there's one even there) unless you want to impress friends and chicks with your old school driving skills. At minimum, it's Level 4 ...still a far cry from where Tesla's at.

As was already discussed light years ago, Audi canceled its system because of regulatory/legal hurdles unique to Level 3. That doesn't negate the fact that it actually developed it, complete with journo testing, years ago. That alone disproves your silly contention that Tesla has an insurmountable lead in autonomous driving. The fact that Tesla pushes out half-baked beta software and crowd-sources testing doesn't actually mean it's ahead of those that do their testing the right way ...just more public, in true Tesla "look at me ...please!?" style.

Get Musk's pubes out of your eyes and look at the rest of the market. For every Sandy Munro, there are multiple experts who prefer other brands' (actual tested, non-beta production-grade) autonomy tech. Meanwhile their "beta" is in non-public prototype testing, just like tech from suppliers and startups the world over, which the world doesn't read about until they get bought out and rolled into someone else's package, and you personally only read about if it's Tesla doing the buying.

Tesla has no discernable lead, let alone a huge, widening gap. Don't be a rube.
 
The anti-EV/anti-Tesla folks here are so quick to post every damning article they see without ever bothering to check if the article is up-to-date and accurate. The Audi L3 is right there with the pieces of wood holding together a Tesla engine.

Yeah, no.

But if it makes you feel better, here's Honda's latest ...and it's actually been thoroughly tested by people paid to do the job (not suckers who actually pay Tesla to be crash test dummies ...seriously how stupid can you be?)!!

 
Yeah, no.

But if it makes you feel better, here's Honda's latest ...and it's actually been thoroughly tested by people paid to do the job (not suckers who actually pay Tesla to be crash test dummies ...seriously how stupid can you be?)!!

Let's just highlight the most important statement:

"The Honda Sensing Elite system is more advanced than other advanced driver-assist systems on the market such as Tesla’s Autopilot and Cadillac’s Super Cruise, because the driver can disengage in certain circumstances. Both of those systems—and all others currently on the market—require the driver's attention regardless of the situation at hand."
 
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Let's just highlight the most important statement:

"The Honda Sensing Elite system is more advanced than other advanced driver-assist systems on the market such as Tesla’s Autopilot and Cadillac’s Super Cruise, because the driver can disengage in certain circumstances. Both of those systems—and all others currently on the market—require the driver's attention regardless of the situation at hand."

Thanks!
 
Let's just highlight the most important statement:

"The Honda Sensing Elite system is more advanced than other advanced driver-assist systems on the market such as Tesla’s Autopilot and Cadillac’s Super Cruise, because the driver can disengage in certain circumstances. Both of those systems—and all others currently on the market—require the driver's attention regardless of the situation at hand."

Begone you spawn of Satan!!
 
There has never been a point in automotive history when the collective minds of Porsche, Audi and Volkswagen didn't know exactly what they were doing. Anyone who questions that isn't sufficiently grounded in the subject as to have a valid opinion.
 
Let's just highlight the most important statement:

"The Honda Sensing Elite system is more advanced than other advanced driver-assist systems on the market such as Tesla’s Autopilot and Cadillac’s Super Cruise, because the driver can disengage in certain circumstances. Both of those systems—and all others currently on the market—require the driver's attention regardless of the situation at hand."

Love it. Competition will drive innovation.
 
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Shocking.
The self proclaimed software guru might have actually learned something. I guess it's just easier on the brain to call out "fan boys". Carry on.
Guru? I said I had a lot of experience. That’s all.

You know those “free trips” to exotic places time-share companies used to offer? Where all you had to do was agree to spend a day attending a presentation to get a week at the exotic place. But the “presentation” was actually a heavy handed sales pitch to get you to buy their product.

That‘s more or less what AI Day was. If that’s your cup of tea, great. It’s not my cup of tea.
 
Guru? I said I had a lot of experience. That’s all.

You know those “free trips” to exotic places time-share companies used to offer? Where all you had to do was agree to spend a day attending a presentation to get a week at the exotic place. But the “presentation” was actually a heavy handed sales pitch to get you to buy their product.

That‘s more or less what AI Day was. If that’s your cup of tea, great. It’s not my cup of tea.

How many more times can you possibly exclaim to the world your disdain for EVs?
 
How many more times are you going to misrepresent my disdain for cult-worship mentality as disdain for something else?

And one day in June as the stars of the Southern Cross blazed in unprecedented intensity a child was born in Pretoria, South Africa. Such intensity that 3 kings of Silicon Valley made a pilgrimage bearing gifts of lithium, other rare earths and solar panels. And his parents said "And he shall be called 'Elon'".
 
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