This has nothing to do with hating or loving Jesus. Plenty of Christians would laugh at your conspiratorial garbage.
OT: Ghost at Disneyland??
- Thread starter mikemarc1
- Start date
This has nothing to do with hating or loving Jesus. Plenty of Christians would laugh at your conspiratorial garbage.
I think he meant rabbit hole.
But there certainly is such a thing as a rabbit trail. Ask any dog that has tried to follow one. They go around in circles and end up nowhere.
You answered my question "Professor" Your answer was NO. And you did it in such a condescending and arrogant manner. "Congratulation's" I'm not Catholic so I wouldn't ask a Priest.
Proverbs 18:13King James Version (KJV)
13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
Proverbs 18:13King James Version (KJV)
13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.
Sorry, but I did answer you. It has nothing to do with knowing specific biblical passages, it's about understanding what the Bible is and is not. People have been using the prophetic language of the Bible to explain contemporary political events since scripture first began circulating. In my particular field, it was used to explain everything from the Spanish invasion of the Low Country to the French Wars of Succession. Such politicization of scripture was as stupid and invalid then as it is today. If you had more than a high school education, you might understand these things.
I'll buy into this logic if you can share with us what, specifically, God told you about @RU848789. If you have video, that would be great.
No part of the Bible was ever meant to be taken literally. Ever. By anyone. That wasn't the point. The odd assemblage of modern "Christians" who believe otherwise aren't all that much different, spiritually, from the Muslims blowing shit up all over the place.
Professor, Don't misunderstand what I said. You have a habit of answering questions without the Knowledge of the subject. In your statement you said you didn't read the Bible.We'll I have Multiple times.
Your knowledge is based on your world view. You comment on a subject while at the same time admit you have limited knowledge. "But an understanding of an overall message" You also said if I had more than a HS education I would understand. again an assumption you have NO Idea what level of education I have. Not that it matters because it doesn't. I have a B.S. Degree. (Before you bring it to my attention, I'm aware my grammar need's work) I would suggest you research a matter before you comment on it. (I'm not talking about a paper some other atheist wrote that you read) Those are people who think like you do. I'm talking about rolling up your sleeves and finding the truth!
Then if you disagree. You'll have research to back your position. For this reason I didn't personally attack you, Or attack your field of study, I would study it first then have questions or a debate.
Attacking me personally doesn't win your position.
To be honest I don't care what you believe, I have a no desire to change your opinion. But my belief and that belief is in Jesus is something you have an Issue with. That's your Issue. And one I don't care to debate with you.
Your knowledge is based on your world view. You comment on a subject while at the same time admit you have limited knowledge. "But an understanding of an overall message" You also said if I had more than a HS education I would understand. again an assumption you have NO Idea what level of education I have. Not that it matters because it doesn't. I have a B.S. Degree. (Before you bring it to my attention, I'm aware my grammar need's work) I would suggest you research a matter before you comment on it. (I'm not talking about a paper some other atheist wrote that you read) Those are people who think like you do. I'm talking about rolling up your sleeves and finding the truth!
Then if you disagree. You'll have research to back your position. For this reason I didn't personally attack you, Or attack your field of study, I would study it first then have questions or a debate.
Attacking me personally doesn't win your position.
To be honest I don't care what you believe, I have a no desire to change your opinion. But my belief and that belief is in Jesus is something you have an Issue with. That's your Issue. And one I don't care to debate with you.
Again, you clearly are not reading what I'm writing or are incapable of grasping it.
Where did I say I haven't read scripture? I've engaged extensively with scripture in my field of study. In fact, my dissertation is, in part, on the changing nature of asceticism in post-Reformation England. I will also (for some reason) be teaching a course in Hebrew Scripture at my college next year (long story). I've taken a graduate seminar in the Old Testament. Obviously, in studying asceticism I read a great deal not only of scripture but of religious studies scholarship. I won't claim to be a biblical scholar or to have encyclopedic recall of biblical passages, but I'm fairly confident that I know more about the bible than the average person, and that I understand Christianity in its various guises better than most Christians.
Now, you might think that this approach to scripture as a historical and literary text or as an exhibit of scholarly inquiry is invalid or meaningless. Fine. But at the very least, don't assume I'm some atheist who is ignorant about your religion. Anyway, this isn't about belief. Again, it's about abuse of scripture. It's about naked politicization of scripture. Those things have been going on for time immemorial. Most Christians I know would not agree with the conclusions you've drawn from the prophetic language of the NT.
Now I've looked, and oh boy what a thread. There is no use in arguing with people who believe in all sorts of different types of make-believe and magic. Sometimes it's nice to just say it and let people marinate in it.
There are no ghosts.
There is no god.
This is no magic.
There is reality, and science is how you understand it or endeavor to understand it.
Everybody knows this, some overtly and some deep down inside where they've hidden it from themselves. Some have personal or psychological reasons why they won't consider reality or admit reality to themselves, the saddest of which are those who won't do so mostly because they have so much time already invested in believing the make-believe stuff.
I can't express how freeing it is to just drop that whole bag of garbage and move on. It opens up a wondrous world that was otherwise closed off by discussion-ending thoughts made up millennia ago by people who knew less than current-day high school kids. It's better. It credits people, not myths. It's ethical and more moral. And it allows you to be awed by reality, not make-believe.
OK, marinate in that. And, of course, I'm sorry I offended you.
There are no ghosts.
There is no god.
This is no magic.
There is reality, and science is how you understand it or endeavor to understand it.
Everybody knows this, some overtly and some deep down inside where they've hidden it from themselves. Some have personal or psychological reasons why they won't consider reality or admit reality to themselves, the saddest of which are those who won't do so mostly because they have so much time already invested in believing the make-believe stuff.
I can't express how freeing it is to just drop that whole bag of garbage and move on. It opens up a wondrous world that was otherwise closed off by discussion-ending thoughts made up millennia ago by people who knew less than current-day high school kids. It's better. It credits people, not myths. It's ethical and more moral. And it allows you to be awed by reality, not make-believe.
OK, marinate in that. And, of course, I'm sorry I offended you.
Tell me the passages you think support the idea of a global conspiracy of elites in 2016. Then I'll explain to you why you're wrong. The burden, as I see it, is on you.
Lets start with the words of JFK, He was in a position to know wouldn't you agree?
Read act's 4:25-26
A cut and past of a previous paper. Scripture follows each paragraph.
Nevertheless, these issues are often ignored by Christian ministries, in a blanket manner, who seem to pretend that God’s prophecies will be fulfilled at some later date, but are not readily recognizable in our own time. Many of us disagree with this view, and consider it a responsibility to sound the trumpet as we see the Day of the Lord approaching. Yet in doing this, we find ourselves exposing the conspiracies of deceitful men. Some will argue that we ought not to be preoccupied with such conspiracies, and just preach the Gospel. But what does the Bible say?
The word “conspiracy” is mentioned many times in the Old Testament Scriptures,
and comes from the Hebrew word qesher (keh’-sher) meaning “an (unlawful) alliance: -- confederacy, conspiracy, treason” (Strong’s 7195). We only find the word once in the New Testament when certain Jews conspire to kill the apostle Paul (Acts 23:13). Nevertheless, the New Testament writings abound with warnings and prophecies about deception and delusion in the last days. From false gospels to wolves in sheep’s clothing, the exhortations to stay on the alert and “take heed that no man deceive you” permeate the teachings of Christ and the apostles. Jesus said:
“Take heed that no man deceive you. For
many shall come in my name, saying, I am
Christ; and shall deceive many.”
(Matt. 24:4-5)
From here, Jesus next goes on to describe hearing of “wars and rumors of wars” and how “nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom …” It seems clear that deception precedes the upheaval of the nations and kingdoms on earth. In v. 6 of this passage, the Lord tells His disciples: “… see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass …” That said, it’s important to remember that “be not troubled” and “don’t pay attention” are not exactly the same thing.
In Isaiah chapter 8, God gives us what should be the ideal perspective on conspiracies, if and when we see them come to pass:
“For the Lord spake thus to me … saying,
Say ye not, A conspiracy*, to all them to
whom this people shall say, A conspiracy;
neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.
Sanctify the Lord of hosts himself; and let
him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
And he shall be for a sanctuary …”
(Isaiah 8:11-14)
There have always been conspiracies among the governments of men. Just think about how men like Nebuchadnezzar II, Cyrus the Persian, or Alexander the Great were able to overthrow so many kingdoms and bring them under their power. These men had to conspire and plan the takeover of other countries. Sometimes people were aware of the conspiracies, sometimes they weren’t. Regardless, God makes it clear that such things should not trouble His servants. Our fear should be to fear God, and then we will not fear what man can do to us. If we fear the Lord, He will be our sanctuary; He will be our strong tower of defense. Then we can say with the saints, I will not fear what man can do to me; if God be for us, who can be against us? (Hebrews 13:6, Romans 8:31)
*NOTE: In the original KJV, this word is translated confederacy. Nevertheless, it is the same Hebrew word (qesher) which is translated conspiracy in 9 other passages of the OT.
Prophecy & the Gospel
“… the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
(Revelation 19:10)
How do conspiracy theories fit in with The Great Commission? This is a good question and one to be considered by those who investigate end time events and those who don’t. First let me say that this writer is of the opinion that conspiracy theories have little or no value unless they glorify God, and demonstrate the fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Some believe the great commission consists only of telling unbelievers how they are sinners, need to repent, and put their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. I would, in part, agree. Yet with this, I would remind my brethren that the Lord’s command is to teach the nations “… all things whatsoever I have commanded you …” (Matt. 28:20) There is much more to the Lord’s teachings than repentance from sin and faith toward God.
The Book of Jude begins with the author speaking of how he intended to write of “the common salvation” (what might be a typical Sunday sermon), but then changes direction, saying:
“… it was needful for me to write unto
you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly
contend for the faith which was once delivered
unto the saints. For there are certain men
crept in unawares, who were before of old
ordained to this condemnation …”
(Jude 3,4)
Notice how Jude makes reference to the fact that these “ungodly men” were known “before of old.” As we read again and again in the New Testament, the false teachers and deceivers of the modern era are in fact the fulfillment of Bible prophecy.
“… evil men and seducers shall wax worse
and worse, deceiving and being deceived.”
(2 Timothy 3:13)
The purpose of exposing the evil deceptions of wicked men is not to make others fearful, and it’s certainly not to stop the New World Order. As we have shown in our documentaries, these things will come to pass because God has declared them. Nowhere are we instructed to prevent these things from happening, but instead we are told, “these things must come to pass.” (Matt. 24:6) To challenge our understanding even more, we find this perplexing passage concerning the ten kings who will rule the world with Antichrist:
“… God hath put in their hearts to fulfill
his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom
unto the beast, until the words of God
shall be fulfilled.”
(Revelation 17:17)
This passage and many others in the Bible make it clear that God Himself is ultimately directing the outcome of world events. Nevertheless, “not stopping” the NWO is to be distinguished from taking part therein. We must remember how Jesus said, “And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!” (Luke 22:22) Yes, the kingdom of Antichrist will come to pass as it was determined by God; but it’s clearly something we are called to be separate from; to be salt in the earth, and as lights shining in a dark place.
But back to the issue: How do conspiracy theories serve the Gospel message? The answer comes when they glorify the only true God, and the testimony of His Son. Sometimes this happens by exposing the wicked deeds of evil men, as it is written: “… have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.” (Ephesians 5:11) Jesus said that the world hates Him “because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.” (John 7:7) Furthermore, John the Baptist was arrested and put to death for speaking against King Herod, not just for his adultery but “for all the evils which Herod had done …” (Luke 3:19) The prophets of old (Moses, Samuel, Elijah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel) were sent to testify against kings because of their wickedness. It is one thing to speak evil against the ruler of your people (i.e. to curse them or to wish them harm), which the Bible forbids (Acts 23:5); but it is not evil to expose their treachery, if such treachery exists. In doing so, the prophets of old compelled wicked rulers to repent, warning them of God’s judgment.
Yet above all else, revealing the world conspiracy against the Lord and against His Christ is according to the writings of the prophets. Understanding the global conspiracy can only happen when world events are examined through the lens of Scripture and all that God has told us would come to pass. As we show in other works, God demonstrates His authority as the only true God through prophecy. In Isaiah, He says:
“Remember the former things of old: for
I am God and there is none else; I am
God and there is none like me, declaring
the end from the beginning, and from ancient
times the things that are not yet done …”
(Isaiah 46:9-10)
God maintains that “there is none” like Him who can declare the end from the beginning. In other words, there are no gods, powers or principalities in the entire pantheon of pagan beliefs that can do what Yahweh, the God of the Bible can do in this regard. While we see demonic powers manifesting “miracles” at various points (i.e. the Egyptian magicians of Exodus 7:11-12, and the false prophet in Revelation 13:14) none of these powers has the ability to declare future events with 100% accuracy. Only the God of the Bible has this ability. As such, it is through prophecy that Yahweh establishes Himself as the God of all gods, and the only salvation for mankind.
God tells us in the Scriptures that kings and rulers would be conspiring against Him and against the Lord Jesus Christ at the end of the age. In the Old Testament, we read in the Psalms:
“Why do the heathen rage, and the
people imagine a vain thing? The kings
of the earth set themselves, and the
rulers take counsel together, against the
Lord, and against his anointed …”
(Psalm 2:1-2)
Then in the New Testament, the apostle Peter quotes this Scripture in relation to those who reject the Lord Jesus Christ:
“”Why did the heathen rage, and the
people imagine vain things? The kings
of the earth stood up, and the rulers
were gathered together against the Lord,
and against his Christ.”
(Acts 4:25-26)
This gathering against God and Christ reaches its climax in the Book of Revelation, where we read how the kings of the earth make war against Jesus Himself:
“And the ten horns which thou sawest
are ten kings … These shall make war
with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall
overcome them: for he is Lord of lords
and King of kings …”
(Revelation 17:12, 14)
Finally, in chapter 19, we read of the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, who comes in the clouds of heaven where every eye shall see Him:
“And I saw heaven opened, and behold
a white horse; and he that sat upon
him was called Faithful and True, and
in righteousness he doth judge and
make war … And he hath on his vesture
and on his thigh a name written, KING
OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
(Revelation 19:11, 16)
Just a few verses later, we find the kings of the earth gathered together alongside the Antichrist, and these deluded rulers have actually planned to make war against the Christ of God! The Scripture makes it clear that these kings are compelled by demonic powers:
“And I saw three unclean spirits like
frogs come out of the mouth of the
dragon, and out of the mouth of the
beast, and out of the mouth of the
false prophet. For they are the spirits
of devils … which go forth unto the kings
of the earth and of the whole world, to
gather them to the battle of that great
day of God Almighty … And he gathered
them together into a place called in the
Hebrew tongue Armageddon.”
(Revelation 16:14,16)
“And I saw the beast, and the kings of
the earth, and their armies, gathered
together to make war against him that
sat on the horse, and against his army.”
(Revelation 19:11, 16, 19)
As we show through our research, this war against God and Christ is not merely symbolic; it is a very literal and direct attack against Jesus Himself. The secret societies that are so often shown to be ruling the world behind the scenes, and who have been laboring to bring mankind into a global empire, demonstrate through their repeated writings, declarations, and actions that their main enemy is Jesus and the gospel message. The early rebels of the Communist movement declared: “Our enemy is God. Hatred of God is the beginning of wisdom.” That statement clearly defines the collective mind behind the New Age/New World Order movement, and is the fulfillment of bible prophecy.
CJP.
Read act's 4:25-26
A cut and past of a previous paper. Scripture follows each paragraph.
Nevertheless, these issues are often ignored by Christian ministries, in a blanket manner, who seem to pretend that God’s prophecies will be fulfilled at some later date, but are not readily recognizable in our own time. Many of us disagree with this view, and consider it a responsibility to sound the trumpet as we see the Day of the Lord approaching. Yet in doing this, we find ourselves exposing the conspiracies of deceitful men. Some will argue that we ought not to be preoccupied with such conspiracies, and just preach the Gospel. But what does the Bible say?
The word “conspiracy” is mentioned many times in the Old Testament Scriptures,
and comes from the Hebrew word qesher (keh’-sher) meaning “an (unlawful) alliance: -- confederacy, conspiracy, treason” (Strong’s 7195). We only find the word once in the New Testament when certain Jews conspire to kill the apostle Paul (Acts 23:13). Nevertheless, the New Testament writings abound with warnings and prophecies about deception and delusion in the last days. From false gospels to wolves in sheep’s clothing, the exhortations to stay on the alert and “take heed that no man deceive you” permeate the teachings of Christ and the apostles. Jesus said:
“Take heed that no man deceive you. For
many shall come in my name, saying, I am
Christ; and shall deceive many.”
(Matt. 24:4-5)
From here, Jesus next goes on to describe hearing of “wars and rumors of wars” and how “nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom …” It seems clear that deception precedes the upheaval of the nations and kingdoms on earth. In v. 6 of this passage, the Lord tells His disciples: “… see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass …” That said, it’s important to remember that “be not troubled” and “don’t pay attention” are not exactly the same thing.
In Isaiah chapter 8, God gives us what should be the ideal perspective on conspiracies, if and when we see them come to pass:
“For the Lord spake thus to me … saying,
Say ye not, A conspiracy*, to all them to
whom this people shall say, A conspiracy;
neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.
Sanctify the Lord of hosts himself; and let
him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
And he shall be for a sanctuary …”
(Isaiah 8:11-14)
There have always been conspiracies among the governments of men. Just think about how men like Nebuchadnezzar II, Cyrus the Persian, or Alexander the Great were able to overthrow so many kingdoms and bring them under their power. These men had to conspire and plan the takeover of other countries. Sometimes people were aware of the conspiracies, sometimes they weren’t. Regardless, God makes it clear that such things should not trouble His servants. Our fear should be to fear God, and then we will not fear what man can do to us. If we fear the Lord, He will be our sanctuary; He will be our strong tower of defense. Then we can say with the saints, I will not fear what man can do to me; if God be for us, who can be against us? (Hebrews 13:6, Romans 8:31)
*NOTE: In the original KJV, this word is translated confederacy. Nevertheless, it is the same Hebrew word (qesher) which is translated conspiracy in 9 other passages of the OT.
Prophecy & the Gospel
“… the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
(Revelation 19:10)
How do conspiracy theories fit in with The Great Commission? This is a good question and one to be considered by those who investigate end time events and those who don’t. First let me say that this writer is of the opinion that conspiracy theories have little or no value unless they glorify God, and demonstrate the fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Some believe the great commission consists only of telling unbelievers how they are sinners, need to repent, and put their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. I would, in part, agree. Yet with this, I would remind my brethren that the Lord’s command is to teach the nations “… all things whatsoever I have commanded you …” (Matt. 28:20) There is much more to the Lord’s teachings than repentance from sin and faith toward God.
The Book of Jude begins with the author speaking of how he intended to write of “the common salvation” (what might be a typical Sunday sermon), but then changes direction, saying:
“… it was needful for me to write unto
you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly
contend for the faith which was once delivered
unto the saints. For there are certain men
crept in unawares, who were before of old
ordained to this condemnation …”
(Jude 3,4)
Notice how Jude makes reference to the fact that these “ungodly men” were known “before of old.” As we read again and again in the New Testament, the false teachers and deceivers of the modern era are in fact the fulfillment of Bible prophecy.
“… evil men and seducers shall wax worse
and worse, deceiving and being deceived.”
(2 Timothy 3:13)
The purpose of exposing the evil deceptions of wicked men is not to make others fearful, and it’s certainly not to stop the New World Order. As we have shown in our documentaries, these things will come to pass because God has declared them. Nowhere are we instructed to prevent these things from happening, but instead we are told, “these things must come to pass.” (Matt. 24:6) To challenge our understanding even more, we find this perplexing passage concerning the ten kings who will rule the world with Antichrist:
“… God hath put in their hearts to fulfill
his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom
unto the beast, until the words of God
shall be fulfilled.”
(Revelation 17:17)
This passage and many others in the Bible make it clear that God Himself is ultimately directing the outcome of world events. Nevertheless, “not stopping” the NWO is to be distinguished from taking part therein. We must remember how Jesus said, “And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!” (Luke 22:22) Yes, the kingdom of Antichrist will come to pass as it was determined by God; but it’s clearly something we are called to be separate from; to be salt in the earth, and as lights shining in a dark place.
But back to the issue: How do conspiracy theories serve the Gospel message? The answer comes when they glorify the only true God, and the testimony of His Son. Sometimes this happens by exposing the wicked deeds of evil men, as it is written: “… have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.” (Ephesians 5:11) Jesus said that the world hates Him “because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.” (John 7:7) Furthermore, John the Baptist was arrested and put to death for speaking against King Herod, not just for his adultery but “for all the evils which Herod had done …” (Luke 3:19) The prophets of old (Moses, Samuel, Elijah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel) were sent to testify against kings because of their wickedness. It is one thing to speak evil against the ruler of your people (i.e. to curse them or to wish them harm), which the Bible forbids (Acts 23:5); but it is not evil to expose their treachery, if such treachery exists. In doing so, the prophets of old compelled wicked rulers to repent, warning them of God’s judgment.
Yet above all else, revealing the world conspiracy against the Lord and against His Christ is according to the writings of the prophets. Understanding the global conspiracy can only happen when world events are examined through the lens of Scripture and all that God has told us would come to pass. As we show in other works, God demonstrates His authority as the only true God through prophecy. In Isaiah, He says:
“Remember the former things of old: for
I am God and there is none else; I am
God and there is none like me, declaring
the end from the beginning, and from ancient
times the things that are not yet done …”
(Isaiah 46:9-10)
God maintains that “there is none” like Him who can declare the end from the beginning. In other words, there are no gods, powers or principalities in the entire pantheon of pagan beliefs that can do what Yahweh, the God of the Bible can do in this regard. While we see demonic powers manifesting “miracles” at various points (i.e. the Egyptian magicians of Exodus 7:11-12, and the false prophet in Revelation 13:14) none of these powers has the ability to declare future events with 100% accuracy. Only the God of the Bible has this ability. As such, it is through prophecy that Yahweh establishes Himself as the God of all gods, and the only salvation for mankind.
God tells us in the Scriptures that kings and rulers would be conspiring against Him and against the Lord Jesus Christ at the end of the age. In the Old Testament, we read in the Psalms:
“Why do the heathen rage, and the
people imagine a vain thing? The kings
of the earth set themselves, and the
rulers take counsel together, against the
Lord, and against his anointed …”
(Psalm 2:1-2)
Then in the New Testament, the apostle Peter quotes this Scripture in relation to those who reject the Lord Jesus Christ:
“”Why did the heathen rage, and the
people imagine vain things? The kings
of the earth stood up, and the rulers
were gathered together against the Lord,
and against his Christ.”
(Acts 4:25-26)
This gathering against God and Christ reaches its climax in the Book of Revelation, where we read how the kings of the earth make war against Jesus Himself:
“And the ten horns which thou sawest
are ten kings … These shall make war
with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall
overcome them: for he is Lord of lords
and King of kings …”
(Revelation 17:12, 14)
Finally, in chapter 19, we read of the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, who comes in the clouds of heaven where every eye shall see Him:
“And I saw heaven opened, and behold
a white horse; and he that sat upon
him was called Faithful and True, and
in righteousness he doth judge and
make war … And he hath on his vesture
and on his thigh a name written, KING
OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
(Revelation 19:11, 16)
Just a few verses later, we find the kings of the earth gathered together alongside the Antichrist, and these deluded rulers have actually planned to make war against the Christ of God! The Scripture makes it clear that these kings are compelled by demonic powers:
“And I saw three unclean spirits like
frogs come out of the mouth of the
dragon, and out of the mouth of the
beast, and out of the mouth of the
false prophet. For they are the spirits
of devils … which go forth unto the kings
of the earth and of the whole world, to
gather them to the battle of that great
day of God Almighty … And he gathered
them together into a place called in the
Hebrew tongue Armageddon.”
(Revelation 16:14,16)
“And I saw the beast, and the kings of
the earth, and their armies, gathered
together to make war against him that
sat on the horse, and against his army.”
(Revelation 19:11, 16, 19)
As we show through our research, this war against God and Christ is not merely symbolic; it is a very literal and direct attack against Jesus Himself. The secret societies that are so often shown to be ruling the world behind the scenes, and who have been laboring to bring mankind into a global empire, demonstrate through their repeated writings, declarations, and actions that their main enemy is Jesus and the gospel message. The early rebels of the Communist movement declared: “Our enemy is God. Hatred of God is the beginning of wisdom.” That statement clearly defines the collective mind behind the New Age/New World Order movement, and is the fulfillment of bible prophecy.
CJP.
Numbers and LL - I know you like to engage in debates with other posters, and I often enjoy reading them, but why can't you just walk away from this one? What's gained by continuing it?
When I watched it, at first I was like [eyeroll] and then I was like [roll]. I don't know if that wingnut in the video(s) is for real, but he's funny as hell.
I recommend you read Siddhartha. That would be a great place for you to start.
But I thought God helped those who helped themselves? Seems like you're passing the buck. To God. Like he doesn't have enough to do already. Some good Christian you are.
If he's young enough, the priest might do something else in his face instead.
I think you should double check your sources. That statement contravenes the overriding theme of the Bible.
You don't really know that.
Certainly there are no ghosts of the type of apparition that started this thread. But you can't prove or disprove the existence of God. It is sort of why it is somewhat meaningless to get into arguments over God's existence. There is no proof that can be provided on either side.
You mean it overrides your chosen interpretation. The Bible, just like any book, is subject to as many different interpretations as there are humans.
I'm deeply suspicious when any particular religion attempts to define it's collective interpretation as "the correct one" and that it must be true because God/Jesus/Muhammad/etc. says so. God, whatever that is, is God. Religion, however, is a human endeavor and is as inherently flawed as humans are.
Jesus had it right. Hookers, blow and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Revelation's inclusion in the Bible was probably the worst decision of the establishers of the Canon. Did you know that even the architects of sola scriptura (Luther and Calvin) questioned its canonicity? The stupidity it bred was already recognized by the 16th century.
Confucius say: He who walk sideways through airport metal detector going to Bangkok.
Your cousin's success is only possible because of the incredibly low scientific literacy level of a large segment of the US population. There's never been a shred of evidence for ghosts that has held up to scientific scrutiny, which is why I posted my link to the debunking of the Disney ghost, but people feel a strong need to believe in them. Science can't "prove" ghosts don't exist, but it can at least debunk every attempt to show they do exist. It completely boggles my mind that there are people gullible enough to believe in ghosts and all kinds of other pseudo-science.
Same thing with gods/God. Until the Age of Reason dawned (for the most part), humans developed all kinds of god/spirit explanations for all kinds of mysterious phenomena they couldn't understand (weather, speciation, earthquakes, eclipses, medical conditions, etc.) - science has helped explain most or all of these phenomena to a good extent by now, but, similarly, science can't "prove" there is or is not a god or a bunch of gods. So I'll get into historical debates about the evolution of religion, but I try not to argue against faith-based positions, since it's very hard to change someone's mind about what they believe, despite a lack of evidence.
So, when I see people posting what I think are crazy theories that have no scientific basis, I feel compelled to try to show them (and other readers) that they're wrong or at least poorly informed. Clearly many other posters feel the same way, as we've seen, so not sure why you're singling 2 of us out. Walking away would represent tacit approval of their positions, which is unacceptable to me. Also, I think I was relatively mild in my criticisms (compared to what I could've said) and yet I still was called a liar and a hater, despite making no lies and expressing no hate. Don't you think I should be able to respond to those things?
Last edited:
Up, I understand your point and why you make it. But I disagree. We cannot wholly and completely disprove many things that we nonetheless (rightly) give no credence because they are absurd with no meaningful supporting evidence. For instance, I can't disprove the Yeti, the Loch Ness Monster, Zeus, a planet somewhere made out of spaghetti, or an intelligent Penn State fan. Yet almost all of us, including science, have concluded that they don't exist, that they are make believe. A god belongs in that group.
It's like anything else without meaningful objective evidence. If we agree to put it in that category, I'm good. I bet most of us, even those who at times still go to services, already do. For many, it's an unstated hedge or a habit. Over time (lots of it I suspect), it'll go away. It's already happening -- thank God! In the same way we view many beliefs of past societies with bemusement, future societies will view our then-ancient society's belief in an all-knowing, invisible and unexplainable lord over us all with bemusement -- "well, they didn't have any reason to know better." Truth is, however, that we do. Most of us just have to admit it and then take that deep breath of relief and take the world as it is. It really feels much better.
Whenever I hear someone say, "Nobody will believe that," I think of god and religion (and ghosts). People can believe anything--fervently.
Last edited:
My first post was a joke. That you didn't get it should be a signal to you that you need to take a step back. I didn't read the rest.
Nonetheless, just over half of the nation's top scientists believe in God or some form of higher power, according to a 2009 Pew study of American Association for the Advancement of Science members. (Note that this study is very different than an earlier study of NAS members about their belief "in a God in intellectual and effective communication with humankind". The study of AAAS members didn't define the nature or role of God or higher power, while the study of NAS members was fairly specific in the role of God.)
So a significantly large portion of top scientists (who are trained in the scientific method to look for empirical evidence) believe in God or some higher power, even though there is zero empirical evidence to support that belief.
Maybe into the future, attitudes about the nature of God will change. But you should be careful in claiming what future societies will believe, otherwise Karma might bite you
.
I don't want to pretend to be a scriptural scholar. I mostly come at these things through the lens of what people from 1580-1630 were saying about things. From what I can gather it seems that they, indeed, believed in the literal truth of things like the Flood and Creation. Disagreements about Biblical literalism tended to arise more with regard to how certain passages should impact doctrine and praxis. For instance, did Christ LITERALLY mean the bread was his body and the blood was his wine? Of course, say Catholics. After the reformation the question gets answered a dozen or more different ways. Ironically, it was the sola scriptura literalists who most vociferously argued that Christ was speaking symbolically.
I wouldn't presume to answer the question of what the authors of various scriptures wanted people to do with what they were writing. "The Bible" is obviously not a wholly integrated, structurally or ideologically coherent work. It is an anthology of various individual works, with different authors, penned over centuries. There isn't even any consensus across sects of what "The Bible" even contains. If Job was written in the 8th century B.C., and Revelation in the first century A.D., I'm not sure how to answer a question about authorial intention. Imagine sticking The Death of Ivan Illyich and Kafka's Metamorphosis onto the end of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, and you get some idea of what a pastiche the Bible is. It takes a whole lot of willful ignorance of what is plainly in front of ones face to see the scriptures as internally consistent and co-relevant works.
