OT: I-695 Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses

[ashokan]

Lara Logan says sources inside agencies told her it was a cyberattack.
The attack was staged at night when crew was laid out.
Ship was not even in the channel at first turn.
The route was a major artery between north and south.
Many needed hazardous materials are now choked-off for years.
Probably need a new bridge because underwater foundations shot.
She makes a good case for the strategic gains in wrecking bridge.

 

[Purple-Ed]

You're correct, I should have said harbor pilot.

 

[WhiteBus]

Ships today (bigger than Baltimore's) need much more than 185 ft

However this ship wasn't one of them! Have no idea why you can't understand that. How do you think it already made into Baltimore Harbor if you think it was too tall? God, I hate conspiracy theory clowns!

 

[RUtix4me]

it was in the harbor so obviously there was enough clearance done right.

 

[rurichdog]

Is this the new national infrastructure plan - tear down and rebuild every bridge to withstand a direct collision with a fully loaded Panamax ship?

 

[Zak57]

Never mind.

 

[toby83]

.

 

[NickRU714]

Really dumb question and probably not a similar situation: my building (and many others) in lower manhattan have concrete posts to stop anything trying to drive into the building.

Do major bridges have any such barrier or protection around the pillars?
It doesn’t look like the bridge did but maybe I’m missing it.

Perhaps this boat was too big anyway but wondering.

 

[RUtix4me]

Is this the new national infrastructure plan - tear down and rebuild every bridge to withstand a direct collision with a fully loaded Panamax ship?

Actually a requirement for a long time to build protective embankments around the base. No requirement to retrofit

 

[RUDead]

Lara Logan says sources inside agencies told her it was a cyberattack.
The attack was staged at night when crew was laid out.
Ship was not even in the channel at first turn.
The route was a major artery between north and south.
Many needed hazardous materials are now choked-off for years.
Probably need a new bridge because underwater foundations shot.
She makes a good case for the strategic gains in wrecking bridge.

View embedded media

This is long on hyperbole and short on facts. Sounds like she is being fed a lot of BS by Neocon warmongers.

Sure, this could be terrorism but she doesn't know shit.

 

[NickRU714]

Another dumb question: if a ship so huge and heavy loses power - wouldn’t it just keep going straight?
Were they in the middle of a turn or needed to turn and unable to because of the power loss?

 

[RUDead]

Another dumb question: if a ship so huge and heavy loses power - wouldn’t it just keep going straight?
Were they in the middle of a turn or needed to turn and unable to because of the power loss?

No, it will just go where ever it wants. You can't control it at all.

 

[rurichdog]

Another dumb question: if a ship so huge and heavy loses power - wouldn’t it just keep going straight?
Were they in the middle of a turn or needed to turn and unable to because of the power loss?

Wind & current are a bitch

 

[RUtix4me]

Was once in CMA CGMs offices in Marseille on a banking deal. They took us to their simulator. It could do any of their ships any harbor. Impact of currents was huge. The also had a control room that could pull any ship off gps and monitor track, currents speed, etc to plot course. If electronics go, it’s back to old time shipping. If engine power fails it’s back to old time drifting.

 

[NickRU714]

I was actually on 4 bridges going to a family party in Rockaway, NY past Saturday.

1. Goethals Bridge
2. Verrazzano Bridge
3. Gil Hodges Memorial Bridge
4. Cross Bay Veterans Memorial Bridge

We were stopped in traffic in the middle of the Verrazano. In the rain and wind.
Didn't feel like the best spot to be stopped.

 

[dconifer]

This is long on hyperbole and short on facts. Sounds like she is being fed a lot of BS by Neocon warmongers.

Sure, this could be terrorism but she doesn't know shit.

Yeah, I hate this kind of "journalism." Back in the day, this level of stuff only showed up on tabloids...

 

[ashokan]

This is long on hyperbole and short on facts. Sounds like she is being fed a lot of BS by Neocon warmongers.

Sure, this could be terrorism but she doesn't know shit.

Nah you're just a normie who moves in easy straight lines. War room isn't pro-war and the neo-Cons hate it.

Gov comes out 32 minutes after event and says "Its not terrorism" and the normies breath a sigh of relief. I figured it was just an accident but as more info comes out I see its not.

I grew-up on the Hudson and know the big ships travel in the deep channels (not always in the center). The Dali was way outside the channel and it actually steered right into the pier - that ship wasn't drifting. All the black smoke meant the engines were going full but probably/maybe ship was trying to go in reverse.

We've had FBI and others warning about cyber attacks on infrastructure and its looks pretty sure we had one. Who caused it is the question.

Americans are essentially clueless about international affairs and will roll with official line that the Russia attack was "ISIS." However assailants came out of Ukraine and tries to get back to Ukraine after their strike. Perps were Uzbeks and didn't follow ISIS stike model.

US warned Americans in Russia about a strike in a theater while at same time Victoria Nuland is resigning and promising Putin "some nice surprises." Ukraine's new military head running the intel show just happens to have been a CIA trained officer named Kyrylo Budanov.

According to a 2024 report by The New York Times, Budanov was one of the members of the elite Unit 2245 of the Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate trained by CIA. "The New York Times reports that Budanov gained a reputation for participating in bold operations behind enemy lines."

Getting the picture? Ukraine loses support from US and Europe and they are out of young men and soundly defeated. Then a Moscow strike run by CIA trained Ukrainian military/intel head while the Angel of Death Victoria Nuland is promising "surprises."

Putin has since declared Ukraine's Budnaov a target. Certainly a strike inside US has to consider these facts along with China (as FBI warned) and some others. We are not in Kansas anymore


https://www.hindustantimes.com/vide...ubs-budanov-valid-target-101711513214216.html

 

[tom1944]

This is long on hyperbole and short on facts. Sounds like she is being fed a lot of BS by Neocon warmongers.

Sure, this could be terrorism but she doesn't know shit.

I saw tweets it was DEI, the captain was vaccinated and now it was a cyber attack. Stuff will get thrown around until they see which one the rubes get all worked up about and then they will pound that out for months.

 

[tom1944]

Back to the important stuff. Will they design a new bridge? How long does the design process take?

 

[Zak57]

I saw tweets it was DEI, the captain was vaccinated and now it was a cyber attack. Stuff will get thrown around until they see which one the rubes get all worked up about and then they will pound that out for months.

Captain rube already made known here. Why even live life when every single thing is a conspiracy.

 

[ashokan]

Yeah, I hate this kind of "journalism." Back in the day, this level of stuff only showed up on tabloids...

Its the NY Times that publicly swore off conventional journalism in 2016 - and all the lawfare, impeachments NYT inflamed etc have crashed and burned. Nobody with common sense follows the Times or even the WSJ (Murdoch) anymore.

Another great bridge economic insight comes from one of top energy experts in the world (former pres of Mitsubishi Power Systems).

 

[ashokan]

Really dumb question and probably not a similar situation: my building (and many others) in lower manhattan have concrete posts to stop anything trying to drive into the building.

Do major bridges have any such barrier or protection around the pillars?
It doesn’t look like the bridge did but maybe I’m missing it.

Perhaps this boat was too big anyway but wondering.

Lots of bridges have "dolphins" or impact protection devices.
Obviously Baltimore (300 yr old port) didn't have any

Engineers ask if Baltimore’s Key Bridge piers could have been better protected

Many bridges similar to Baltimore’s Key Bridge are protected by barriers designed to prevent or reduce the impact when vessels collide with piers. Such installations include cable systems, po…

www.baltimoresun.com

 

[RUDead]

Nah you're just a normie who moves in easy straight lines. War room isn't pro-war and the neo-Cons hate it.

Gov comes out 32 minutes after event and says "Its not terrorism" and the normies breath a sigh of relief. I figured it was just an accident but as more info comes out I see its not.

I grew-up on the Hudson and know the big ships travel in the deep channels (not always in the center). The Dali was way outside the channel and it actually steered right into the pier - that ship wasn't drifting. All the black smoke meant the engines were going full but probably/maybe ship was trying to go in reverse.

We've had FBI and others warning about cyber attacks on infrastructure and its looks pretty sure we had one. Who caused it is the question.

Americans are essentially clueless about international affairs and will roll with official line that the Russia attack was "ISIS." However assailants came out of Ukraine and tries to get back to Ukraine after their strike. Perps were Uzbeks and didn't follow ISIS stike model.

US warned Americans in Russia about a strike in a theater while at same time Victoria Nuland is resigning and promising Putin "some nice surprises." Ukraine's new military head running the intel show just happens to have been a CIA trained officer named Kyrylo Budanov.

According to a 2024 report by The New York Times, Budanov was one of the members of the elite Unit 2245 of the Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate trained by CIA. "The New York Times reports that Budanov gained a reputation for participating in bold operations behind enemy lines."

Getting the picture? Ukraine loses support from US and Europe and they are out of young men and soundly defeated. Then a Moscow strike run by CIA trained Ukrainian military/intel head while the Angel of Death Victoria Nuland is promising "surprises."

Putin has since declared Ukraine's Budnaov a target. Certainly a strike inside US has to consider these facts along with China (as FBI warned) and some others. We are not in Kansas anymore


https://www.hindustantimes.com/vide...ubs-budanov-valid-target-101711513214216.html

I'm a normie? LOL. That's funny.

She presents no facts. It's all theories and unnamed "CIA" sources. So she either has no sources or she actually has CIA sources. I don't believe unnamed sources or the CIA so I assume this is all bullshit.

You're stuck in uni-party warmonger mindset. Bannon is trying to lead you on a path out of a losing neocon proxy war with Russian and into a conflict with China over Taiwan to keep the military industrial complex gravy train going.

 

[brgRC90]

This is long on hyperbole and short on facts. Sounds like she is being fed a lot of BS by Neocon warmongers.

Sure, this could be terrorism but she doesn't know shshit.

Not to mention, terrorists go after people not bridges. And unless someone was able to take control of the ship as opposed to just kill power, it's a long shot that the ship would actually hit the bridge supports like it did.

 

[DJ Spanky]

So the captain was a DEI hire who actually works for Hamas, who had piled the containers too high so the ship couldn't fit under the bridge, but then the ship flinched as it was approaching the bridge because it received an email from a nigerian prince and hit the pier instead. Got it.

 

[brgRC90]

I'm a normie? LOL. That's funny.

She presents no facts. It's all theories and unnamed "CIA" sources. So she either has no sources or she actually has CIA sources. I don't believe unnamed sources or the CIA so I assume this is all bullshit.

You're stuck in uni-party warmonger mindset. Bannon is trying to lead you on a path out of a losing neocon proxy war with Russian and into a conflict with China over Taiwan to keep the military industrial complex gravy train going.

You're talking to Tinfoil Hat Timmy there. He sees all and knows all, and probably hears voices. But he's losing his grip. I'm shocked he didn't find a way to pin the blame at least partly on transgender activists.

 

[RUDead]

You're talking to Tinfoil Hat Timmy there. He sees all and knows all, and probably hears voices. But he's losing his grip. I'm shocked he didn't find a way to pin the blame at least partly on transgender activists.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is terrorism but right now we don't know anything so anyone that says they know is just guessing.

 

[mildone]

Lara Logan says...

Who is Lara Logan and why would anybody anywhere care about what she says?

In any event, do you suppose there's a chance we could actually skip all the baseless speculation, fear-mongering, and paranoid conspiracy theories for this particular current event? At least until the bodies are recovered?

Just to prove we can still do that? No?

 

[MURF87]

Was once in CMA CGMs offices in Marseille on a banking deal. They took us to their simulator. It could do any of their ships any harbor. Impact of currents was huge. The also had a control room that could pull any ship off gps and monitor track, currents speed, etc to plot course. If electronics go, it’s back to old time shipping. If engine power fails it’s back to old time drifting.

A working comparison of wind to current is that 1 kt current = 10 kts wind. And if anyone thinks that 10kts of wind isn't much, think about how much freeboard (i.e, sail area) these ships have and then include all the "sail area" of the containers onboard.

 

[RUPete]

I saw an interview with the head of the recovery team this morning. The divers who have to go in and recover the deceased are really facing some serious challenges. Darkness, jagged wreckage, strong currents, a lot of silt and sediment churned up. He said once they locate a target via camera and they send them down, they will be working by "feel" more than sight.

 

[letitrip2]

Not sure it was posted already - AP reporting that the Baltimore police were able to block traffic unto the bridge about 90 seconds before the collapse - If true amazing job by law enforcement. Has this been confirmed?

 

[Ty Webb]

Who is Lara Logan and why would anybody anywhere care about what she says?

In any event, do you suppose there's a chance we could actually skip all the baseless speculation, fear-mongering, and paranoid conspiracy theories for this particular current event? At least until the bodies are recovered?

Just to prove we can still do that? No?

Lara Logan is a former CBS correspondent who has in recent years gone off the deep end of conspiracies from the whole Rothschilds thing to theories on AIDs. She's had to issue retractions in the past publicly after she reported false information (including citing conspiracy websites as proof and then having to apologize after the information was proven false). She is infamous for Benghazi reporting that was so wrong she had to issue an on air apology.

In this case, she's made some pretty damning claims that were proven false. For one, she floated the notion that no pilot was on board. That was false. Both the harbor and other authorities have confirmed there was a pilot on board. Two, she made a claim the ship never got into the right channel. Again false as she must have been unaware that these ships have GPS trackers and that they can actually see where the ship was at all times in the harbor. There are even YouTube videos out showing the Marine Tracker data and you can see precisely where the ship was. It was in the channel and when they lost power initially, the ship started to drift in the channel.

Twitter is full of conspiracies on the accident, which likely won't surprise many here.

 

[dconifer]

Not sure it was posted already - AP reporting that the Baltimore police were able to block traffic unto the bridge about 90 seconds before the collapse - If true amazing job by law enforcement. Has this been confirmed?

Yes, it's confirmed. In fact, you can hear the police calls in a link somewhere in this thread describing their efforts. Near the end, one of the officers calmly reported that the bridge had collapsed.

It was most likely Anne Arundel County police on the Southern end of the bridge (most police departments in Maryland, aside from bigger cities, are county-based).

ETA: sorry, the police crosstalk has been released, but I guess I saw it someplace other than this thread. It's not here.

Here's an PBS story:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation...es-to-stop-traffic-before-key-bridge-collapse

 

[CERU00]

Horrifying

isnt there a system enabled to avoid what just happened, not familiar with shipping but arent these boats steered and in contact with someone on land

Love to see the risk analysis on bridges like this. They never thought of the chance of a large ship hitting the support structure? That risk should have been mitigated on bridges crossing rivers at major ports!

 

[dconifer]

Love to see the risk analysis on bridges like this. They never thought of the chance of a large ship hitting the support structure? That risk should have been mitigated on bridges crossing rivers at major ports!

That sounds good, but it just isn't realistic unless taxpayers want to pay for every bridge to be modified. The ships of today are just so much bigger and heavier than they were in the past; engineers as recently as 1977, when this bridge was completed, never dreamed they'd need to be prepared for collisions with this kind of impact.

Similar situation with our rickety power grid; it would cost billions of dollars to harden it to protect against EMP. Some components of it are over a hundred years old, besides being unprotected. Nobody wants to sign up for paying for that...

 

[Armor and Sword]

Yes, it's confirmed. In fact, you can hear the police calls in a link somewhere in this thread describing their efforts. Near the end, one of the officers calmly reported that the bridge had collapsed.

It was most likely Anne Arundel County police on the Southern end of the bridge (most police departments in Maryland, aside from bigger cities, are county-based).

ETA: sorry, the police crosstalk has been released, but I guess I saw it someplace other than this thread. It's not here.

Here's an PBS story:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation...es-to-stop-traffic-before-key-bridge-collapse

Not sure if they were on that tape, but the Maryland Transportation Authority, which operates the Key Bridge, the tunnels and the Bay Bridge, also has it's own police force. Amy Ryan also played an MTA officer in Season 2 of The Wire.

 

[LETSGORU91]

However this ship wasn't one of them! Have no idea why you can't understand that. How do you think it already made into Baltimore Harbor if you think it was too tall? God, I hate conspiracy theory clowns!

I'm surprised he hasn't come up with a theory it was built in the harbor and this was her maiden voyage.

Not sure it was posted already - AP reporting that the Baltimore police were able to block traffic unto the bridge about 90 seconds before the collapse - If true amazing job by law enforcement. Has this been confirmed?

Watching the traffic flow and right before impact, the last vehicle seemed to just get past and I can't see any moving lights on the bridge. Coast guard and police officers did a hell of a job in a quick amount of time.

 

[Ty Webb]

Nah you're just a normie who moves in easy straight lines. War room isn't pro-war and the neo-Cons hate it.

Gov comes out 32 minutes after event and says "Its not terrorism" and the normies breath a sigh of relief. I figured it was just an accident but as more info comes out I see its not.

I grew-up on the Hudson and know the big ships travel in the deep channels (not always in the center). The Dali was way outside the channel and it actually steered right into the pier - that ship wasn't drifting. All the black smoke meant the engines were going full but probably/maybe ship was trying to go in reverse.

We've had FBI and others warning about cyber attacks on infrastructure and its looks pretty sure we had one. Who caused it is the question.

Americans are essentially clueless about international affairs and will roll with official line that the Russia attack was "ISIS." However assailants came out of Ukraine and tries to get back to Ukraine after their strike. Perps were Uzbeks and didn't follow ISIS stike model.

US warned Americans in Russia about a strike in a theater while at same time Victoria Nuland is resigning and promising Putin "some nice surprises." Ukraine's new military head running the intel show just happens to have been a CIA trained officer named Kyrylo Budanov.

According to a 2024 report by The New York Times, Budanov was one of the members of the elite Unit 2245 of the Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate trained by CIA. "The New York Times reports that Budanov gained a reputation for participating in bold operations behind enemy lines."

Getting the picture? Ukraine loses support from US and Europe and they are out of young men and soundly defeated. Then a Moscow strike run by CIA trained Ukrainian military/intel head while the Angel of Death Victoria Nuland is promising "surprises."

Putin has since declared Ukraine's Budnaov a target. Certainly a strike inside US has to consider these facts along with China (as FBI warned) and some others. We are not in Kansas anymore


https://www.hindustantimes.com/vide...ubs-budanov-valid-target-101711513214216.html

You are in deep.

For starters, the ship was in the channel. How do we know this? GPS tracking data. You can find multiple videos of people showing the Marine Tracker info that follows the path of the ship from being pushed back by tugs to them helping it turn to then getting into the channel. At no point was she "way outside" the channel once she got into the shipping lane. When synced by time, you can even see the point on the GPS data where power was lost the first time and she started to drift.

Much of the conspiracy analysis of the ship's path comes from the video but the problem with that is the video isn't a straight shot down the channel. It's off to the side, so it looks like it's coming into the bridge from the side (which I assume is the basis for the claim she was "way out" of the channel) and then makes a sharp turn. But that's not what happened based on the GPS data.

EDIT: Here is a maritime historian and former merchant marine using the actual GPS data showing the path of the Dali. At no point prior was she "way outside" the channel once she was guided there by tugs up until she started to drift towards the side of the bridge after the first power outage.

MV Dali Video

 

[letitrip2]

Yes, it's confirmed. In fact, you can hear the police calls in a link somewhere in this thread describing their efforts. Near the end, one of the officers calmly reported that the bridge had collapsed.

It was most likely Anne Arundel County police on the Southern end of the bridge (most police departments in Maryland, aside from bigger cities, are county-based).

ETA: sorry, the police crosstalk has been released, but I guess I saw it someplace other than this thread. It's not here.

Here's an PBS story:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation...es-to-stop-traffic-before-key-bridge-collapse

Thanks. - Great job by LE to move that fast - Even at that hour of the day many more would have been killed.

 

[letitrip2]

In this area it seems to me that the Morris Goodkind (north bound route 1) is in dire need of repair and replacement. The concrete is literally crumbling and the rebar is exposed in many spots. They even have old plywood attached to some of the railings. That bridge doesn't get large ship traffic and maybe it is only in non-structural spots but when stuck in traffic on that bridge it is creepy.