Were you sitting next to Biden on the train?
OT: I-695 Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapses
- Thread starter Joey Bags
- Start date
Not quite true. There are small dolphins on either side of the two main piers. However, they are too far away from the bridge and likely too small to stop a ship this size. Not clear if they were part of the original 1977 construction or added later. You can see 3 of them clearly in this photo(small white circles).Lots of bridges have "dolphins" or impact protection devices.
Obviously Baltimore (300 yr old port) didn't have any
Engineers ask if Baltimore’s Key Bridge piers could have been better protected
Many bridges similar to Baltimore’s Key Bridge are protected by barriers designed to prevent or reduce the impact when vessels collide with piers. Such installations include cable systems, po…www.baltimoresun.com
Not sure what the age of the port has to do with it......
Not quite true. There are small dolphins on either side of the two main piers. However, they are too far away from the bridge and likely too small to stop a ship this size. Not clear if they were part of the original 1977 construction or added later. You can see 3 of them clearly in this photo(small white circles).
Not sure what the age of the port has to do with it......
Yep. Here is the Dames Point Bridge in Florida. Look at the size and location of the dolphins.
Well aged port is usually much more expensive.
IF you're in the mood, paranoiacs can be quite entertaining.
I see. So she's just another attention-seeking talking head.
I'm at the point where I fully ignore all of them, regardless of whatever they might be saying. At best, such people (regardless of their particular viewpoints) are entirely unnecessary, and often counterproductive, to us being well-informed.
Someone said 1 year or 18 months for new bridge
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
16 years and counting and they still aren’t done the 55 295 construction.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
16 years and counting and they still aren’t done the 55 295 construction.
She was raped while reporting in Egypt (I believe that was the country) by a mob. Her reporting has been different ever since.
I think it was reporting on the Arab Spring.
Wow, I remember that like it was yesterday, but had no memory at all of her name, That was ugly, but she handled it with courage and dignity...
Actually it is. The solution is not terribly expensive. They simply make an island of stone around the supports so that ships run aground before being able to impact a bridge.
Yeah, no way even 18 months. Even if they have a fully developed design(for that specific location) with all of the surveying already done(the soil/ground conditions under the piers are incredibly important in large bridge design), and are ready to start construction tomorrow, it still won't be done in 18 months. I think we are talking a min of 3 years (and honestly I don't even believe that).
Problem is if you do that, then the useable channel under the bridge can get narrowed so much ships can't fit. Keeping mind that island of stone has to reach to the bottom of the river/bay, and a pile of stones isn't vertical and alot less than 45 degrees (been 30 years since my civil eng degree), so you are likely impacting the channel size by something like at least 6 feet(3 feet per pier with a pier on each side of channel) for each foot of depth of channel. I believe the channel width there is about 800 feet, and the main span is 1200 feet, so you are likely taking the channel width down at least a couple hundred feet.
The island of stone idea can work, just is not the right solution in every case.
That's awful and I hope the people who did it die slow painful deaths.
Nothing personal to her, but I'm still not interested in her opinion about anything.
This is so f*cking weird. Please seek help. Stop posting crap about Russia and Putin in this thread.
It's rare that the channel is in anyway narrow and close to a support column. They may exist but I can't think of any on the East Coast that handles even smaller cargo ships.
I know this is so hard for you, but start a new thread if you want to post about something that happened 13 years ago.
I'm amazed the bridge didn't have some sort of fender system in place. A similar accident happened on the SF-Oakland Bay Bridge - without any problems.
www.yahoo.com
The day a cargo ship crashed into SF Bay Bridge
SAN FRANCISCO (KRON) — Bridges are important lifelines connecting the San Francisco Bay Area and disasters like Tuesday’s bridge versus cargo ship crash in Baltimore have happened here. The Bay Area has eight large toll bridges and cargo ships pass under some of them. A ship strike is rare, but...
I'm all for trying that.
That reminds me somewhat of Merthin's idea to protect his new bridge in Ken Follet's "World Without End."
Yeah, I don't know how often it would be a problem on other bridges, but certainly might be on this one. Suspension bridges often have longer spans so the piers wouldn't be as close together or as close to the channel as here. So likely just impact older truss bridges. Here is another bridge that I expect will get attention in the near future:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astoria–Megler_Bridge
Cargo ship is the largest ever to dock at the Port of Portland
The container ship MSC Katie is 1,200 feet long and has a cargo capacity equivalent to 12,400 standard 20-foot shipping containers.
www.kgw.com
Difference is that one was a glancing blow along side whereas it looks like Dali was a direct hit. Also to me it looks like the tip of the bow(sticking out in front of the underwater portion of the ship) struck the slender above water concrete pier and buckled that, so a small fender system like in at image likely wouldn't have helped. So I think we are talking apples to oranges here.I'm amazed the bridge didn't have some sort of fender system in place. A similar accident happened on the SF-Oakland Bay Bridge - without any problems.
The day a cargo ship crashed into SF Bay Bridge
SAN FRANCISCO (KRON) — Bridges are important lifelines connecting the San Francisco Bay Area and disasters like Tuesday’s bridge versus cargo ship crash in Baltimore have happened here. The Bay Area has eight large toll bridges and cargo ships pass under some of them. A ship strike is rare, but...
That already has some pretty massive barriers protecting the bridge from each side.
yeah, but it looks like wood, and I wouldn't bet on wood vs 100,000 ton cargo ship. But I could be wrong about what the barriers are made of.
Google Maps
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Yeah, I can't tell, I was assuming they were concrete. If they're wood, well, they're pretty much useless.
I'll bet you right now those numbers are possible. They don't need to build a whole new bridge. Just the middle. Clearly with better safety features.
The priority of it vs. a land route aren't in the same universe.
Disagree. Well see. Temp bridge fixing the middle then long term perhaps a whole new structure.
On another subject as I posted in one of these threads..what exactly are they doing to protect the Annapolis Bay Bridge which is the same damn design?
I think it was. Great job by the ship crew and first responders. Likely saved hundreds of lives.
Its as relevant as FBI saying for months that infrastructure was in danger of being hacked.
You're just missing a gear.
"I get a lot of objections from ships captains when discussing security flaws in ships, so I felt it worthwhile looking at these in some detail.
The usual response is ‘ships can’t be hacked.’ When I dig further, what they usually seem to mean is that ‘processes aboard the bridge mean that the captain or officers will spot the issue and take manual control’
This implies several important issues:
- That the hack is detectable by a ships crew.
- That the crew are actively comparing digital navigation aids with manual navigation techniques (e.g. looking out of the bridge windows!)
- That the manual controls are actually usable and haven’t been hacked themselves
- That there are offline backup systems in the event that primary aids aren’t available (e.g. paper charts)
- That anyone actually checked the digital systems are reporting correctly
Ships can’t be hacked. Wrong | Pen Test Partners
I get a lot of objections from ships captains when discussing security flaws in ships, so I felt it worthwhile looking at these in some detail. The usual response is ‘ships can’t be hacked.’ When I dig further, what they usually seem to mean is that ‘processes aboard the bridge mean that the captain or
www.pentestpartners.com
70% of coal export goes through Baltimore - and its got the greatest volume of auto-shipping.
Very strategic
The shipping lane doesn't include the pier it crashed into.
Along with depth there needs to be room to maneuver
Ship needed a wider turn to hit center.
Reports are the ship lost steering but it steered/veered quite nicely into the footing
You are a mental case! You are missing more then a gear. More like a working brain!Its as relevant as FBI saying for months that infrastructure was in danger of being hacked.
You're just missing a gear.
"I get a lot of objections from ships captains when discussing security flaws in ships, so I felt it worthwhile looking at these in some detail.
The usual response is ‘ships can’t be hacked.’ When I dig further, what they usually seem to mean is that ‘processes aboard the bridge mean that the captain or officers will spot the issue and take manual control’
This implies several important issues:
I’ve been working in IT security for over 20 years. I see the same pattern when security flaws are discovered in an industry for the first time. Back the early 2000’s, few industries outside financial services and government took security seriously. ‘Why would hackers be interested in us’ was the usual objection."
- That the hack is detectable by a ships crew.
- That the crew are actively comparing digital navigation aids with manual navigation techniques (e.g. looking out of the bridge windows!)
- That the manual controls are actually usable and haven’t been hacked themselves
- That there are offline backup systems in the event that primary aids aren’t available (e.g. paper charts)
- That anyone actually checked the digital systems are reporting correctly
Ships can’t be hacked. Wrong | Pen Test Partners
I get a lot of objections from ships captains when discussing security flaws in ships, so I felt it worthwhile looking at these in some detail. The usual response is ‘ships can’t be hacked.’ When I dig further, what they usually seem to mean is that ‘processes aboard the bridge mean that the captain or
70% of coal export goes through Baltimore - and its got the greatest volume of auto-shipping.
Very strategic
The ship wasn't centered to get through middle of bridge - it had to make a turn - and it kept turning while aiming for the support. For a ship that supposedly lose steering it was steering pretty well.
You know when a track runner laps competition and ends-up behind other runners?
That's me behind you
The GPS data shows you that you are wrong.
Watch the link I provided earlier.
You are being fooled by the camera line. On the video, just to the right of the pier hit by the ship you can see the lights/cranes from Seagirt Terminal. Look at a map and you can then draw a line to see where the camera is. After finding the camera line you can also see the shipping lane and its relation to the camera line. Every ship entering the line of the camera would come in from the left.
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