OT: lack of diversity
- Thread starter theRU
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It all comes down to who the coach can close. Our two current basketball coaches are black and therefore might have a better success rate at closing on black players whom they can get to relate to them better. I at no point however think our coaches are not recruiting players because of race. I think they want the best players. As stated by others RU is a very diverse campus in a very diverse area. I am originally from Piscataway Class of '89 and graduated with PatrickRU92. I remember one day after gym class I was in the locker room and two of the black guys were talking about being minorities. I turned around and said to them they were crazy. I thought I was going to get the snot beat out of me but I followed it up by saying "look around. I am white. I am the minority in this room." They both stopped, looked around, and started to laugh. There were more black guys than white guys. It shows that back then we were a very diverse area. All that has changed since then is that Piscataway, New Brunswick, and the surrounding area has gotten less white and more diverse (Indian, Portuguese, Spanish, Black, Chinese, etc.) A high level high school player will get recruited in basketball nationally. They then will go to either one of the BB factories (men - Duke, NC, etc - women - UConn, TN, ND) or go to a school that they grew up with allegiance to. Since we won't get the elite men's BB player and have a chance with the elite WBB player but not easy, we end up getting the player with local allegiance and pride who will most likely be black. I only care about one thing. Can they ball. I also believe this is one of the reasons we get some of the European players. Knowing a lot of people in Europe and dealing with them professionally, some of the lack of diversity in their home country makes RU appealing. They like the fact that there is a mix of something they are not as familiar with. Unlike Midwest and West Coast kids who find it too uncomfortable, the European finds it exciting and experience broadening.
If someone's position is simply, can they ball or not, which I agree with, they are also against affirmative action, quotas, and other social engineering tools.
Merit and skill. That's all that matters. Or should. Everything else is an excuse.
Merit and skill. That's all that matters. Or should. Everything else is an excuse.
Cali, i agree with the overall sentiment of your post, however it also insinuates that you feel we're not getting white players because the ones we have are better and i don't believe that is the case.
So, my point is that if we can't effectively recruit a pool of players, whether its race or whatever other lines you want to break the talent pools up by, we should be concerned.
Race just happens to be an easily observable way to judge our recruits , but i'd be just as concerned if you told me we can't seem to recruit players born between January and June, as that severely limits our ability to choose the best out of our candidate pools.
The observation is no more wrong than when we as football fans observe that our linemen would tend to be smaller than some other teams.
Recruit the best, race creed or color shouldn't be a factor and I don't feel it is at RU.
When it's said: " we're not getting white players because the ones we have are better and i don't believe that is the case."
I would like the reasoning for making that statement and not be sidetrack by being concerned why RU can't recruit those born on certain days or months..
Let's stick to the issue raised: "lack of diversity"
When it's said: " we're not getting white players because the ones we have are better and i don't believe that is the case."
I would like the reasoning for making that statement and not be sidetrack by being concerned why RU can't recruit those born on certain days or months..
Let's stick to the issue raised: "lack of diversity"
I think we can't recruit great players across the board, regardless of color, because of the people who are recruiting them. That said, it would be naïve to think that CViv likely doesn't recruit certain players. I think that is pretty obvious. But, her job is to win big. She is paid like it. When that stops, which maybe it has, changes get made. IF we were somehow able to land Daley, you would see our recruiting demographics change, which probably wouldn't be a bad thing. UConn is on to something, lol.
Good players want to play for good coaches. Geno recruits white and black players of equal talent and skill because he is a great coach. I a guessing he casts a wider net based on the make-up of his teams.
Good players want to play for good coaches. Geno recruits white and black players of equal talent and skill because he is a great coach. I a guessing he casts a wider net based on the make-up of his teams.
Caliknight is good at defending himself, so he doesn't need my sloppy help, but I don't think he was insinuating that at all. He simply wants Rutgers to have the five best players on the court, be they white or black or Asian. At least I do.
Of course. And that extends to every facet of the university, which is why AA and quotas make society and have a negative effect on progress.
Sports are very basic. You play the best people you can get. Anyone who has played a sport would agree with that. Well that same mindset should extend to everything we do in life, be in a company, school, whatever.
I don't see how some people can be for all of this social engineering stuff, then look at sports and say they shouldn't be that way. Selective, to say the least.
I think we all do
Cali, are you thinking that i'm calling for a quota?
"What we've got here is failure to communicate." -- Cool Hand Luke
I don't know what Caliknight thinks, and again he can speak for himself quite adequately, but I'm not sure what you think the right response is. I *think* that what you're saying is that Rutgers may not in fact be getting the best players it can; that if Rutgers did more to recruit whites, the team would get white players who are superior to at least some of the non-white players it is getting. I myself doubt that Rutgers is missing some kind of mother lode of white players or that Rutgers is relatively weak among northeastern urban schools in recruiting among white players. In a state like New Jersey, which has a relatively high black population, I think that even-handed recruiting efforts are going to yield a team that looks just like Rutgers' -- that is, mostly black. In any case, we shouldn't care about black, white, brown or yellow -- we should be concerned about scarlet and only scarlet.
No. I was just offering personal thoughts on this topic. I know you aren't. And I believe we agree based on what I think you are saying.
Why did you say : "i don't believe that is the case." when someone said "we're not getting white players because the ones we have are better"
All I want is an answer to that and not get it sidetracked like a statement like this might: , "but i'd be just as concerned if you told me we can't seem to recruit players born between January and June, as that severely limits our ability to choose the best out of our candidate pools."
To me that is getting away from the diversity issue you raised and just trying to act like race isn't what you're talking about when not getting white players was discussed and you acted like talent wasn't the real reason.
not exactly. I'm saying that in order to be the best basketball programs you need to be successful in recruiting... Successful recruiting means you get your choice of players from the largest talent pool.
As your talent pool shrinks and/OR your success rate suffers( first choice, second, third, etc), your athlete quality is reduced.
IF any group, whether it be racial, ethnic, religious, wealthy, poor etc eliminates you from consideration, this would be cause for concern since it would shrink the pool you draw from, which means less options.
Now back to my observation that we seem lack the white recruits in bball.... whether it be we're not good at recruiting them (coaching staffs can't relate or whatever reason you want to use), or they dont want to play for us (many reasons have been speculated) it would seem this is an area we need to fix since, unless we are confident that we get first choice of athlete from our existing talent pool and dont feel a larger pool is necessary. I think we can all agree, we're not a prime destination in WBB, and def not in MBB, therefore our focus needs to be in growing our available talent pool to source from while we continue to strive to improve our success rate. Its pretty logical to draw these conclusions IMO.
Another way to word my point.... maybe we're a 2nd or 3rd tier choice in our current talent pool for WBB. Theoretically We can get better if we either improve and move up the pecking order in our current talent pool OR stay second tier choice but with a larger pool. Its probably easier to grow our pool... get slightly better...try and grow pool more and/or improve our tier....get better... repeat... until at the top and a National power.
I wouldn't be using the WBB as example of 2nd or 3rd tier choice since we have the Top 5 recruiting classes a few years ago. We are recruiting like Michigan or USC in women basketball. No we are not Connecticut.
I think the question that needs to be asked w/respect to quotas or AA is the following. Is there an institutional barrier of some sort, intentional or unintentional, that impedes group X from being part of thing Y because of some defining, but irrelevant, characteristic for group X?
While quotas and AA are obviously evil, they were and probably still are necessary evils in certain situations where such institutional barriers exist. But sometimes there are other, less artificial, ways to correct for such problems w/out resorting to AA or quotas and, IMO, those should be tried first as they are less harmful to all involved.
I have no idea if RUBB is one of those situations, but I doubt it. But it's worth asking when RU #s diverge enough from the "norm".
Stop just pick best coach if someone will help you win they will be hired doesn't matter what color or race
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