Simply Stunning. Calatrava did an amazing job.
http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf...orld_trade_center_tran.html#incart_river_home
http://www.nj.com/traffic/index.ssf...orld_trade_center_tran.html#incart_river_home
OT- New WTC Transportation Hub
- Thread starter Abro1975
- Start date
Looks great from Vesey St. I suspect that it will look great from the inside, too... ya know... once they take the barricades down and you can actually use it.
Also, whoever they paid for the "skid-resistant coating" on the marble floors should be getting some paperwork in the mail pretty soon.
It's very nice, but the PANYNJ needs to be out of the real estate business....like everything they run it's handled super poorly.
What would have happened if instead the money was used to restore service ostensibly stopped because of 9/11....that was never restored? Or to expand to EWR or the 7 to Secaucus?
There is a memorial there. Yet, you have to wait 35 minutes for overnight trains?
What would have happened if instead the money was used to restore service ostensibly stopped because of 9/11....that was never restored? Or to expand to EWR or the 7 to Secaucus?
There is a memorial there. Yet, you have to wait 35 minutes for overnight trains?
They had a show about the new hub at the WTC on of the local channels recently and it looks amazing. I know it took forever to rebuild everything there but I think they did weaves well into remembering the attack and victims but also allows work a functioning high traffic business area. Great job on the design for the buildings, the hub, and the memorial/museum which a lot of people wouldn't have expected.
WTC 15+ year project is the biggest milking, boondoggle, waste of money ever. All that was necessary were the memorials and PATH / Subway. More office space.....are you kiddng me? Did I mention this has been going on for 15 years?
Sincerely,
Happy WTC Commuter
Sincerely,
Happy WTC Commuter
They should cancel overnight trains, there are highly unprofitable. Just take Uber and stop whining.
I just hope there is built in security that is the greatest known to man. We all know this will be a major target for all the terrorist groups out there, sadly.
If you ever have the pleasure of experiencing rush hour, the reality is its virtually impossible to prevent attacks. Riding the PATH is a joy, as well.
Next time you pay $15 to use GWB, Lincoln, Holland, Outerbridge Crossing, Goethals or Bayonne Bridge, just remember that you are paying for this extravagance. The overruns on the various WTC projects have a direct correlation to the toll hikes. Remember, these tolls were only $8 as recently as 2011!
The $2B overrun would have been nice seed money for a more meaning infrastructure project, like new tunnel tubes between NY/NJ...
The $2B overrun would have been nice seed money for a more meaning infrastructure project, like new tunnel tubes between NY/NJ...
When you look at the fact that it took 15 years to build, that explains why it was also 2B over budget!! The Empire State Building only took 410 days to build !!
Idea stolen from the Air Force Academy? Good as place an any to steal from.
That never ceases to amaze me. Of course it was during the height of the depression and the workers were thankful for the job. I also understand that the WTC buildings went up very rapidly in the early 70's?
It seems to be a rule of human nature that almost every time there is a major public project some people complain about a boondoggle or an eyesore, going back to the eifel tower.
Not agreeing or disagreeing with your post, but I mostly agree with your first sentence. Anyway, what PATH service was never restored? IIRC, the current service patterns of Hoboken-WTC, Newark-WTC, Hoboken-33rd, Journal Square-33rd on weekdays and Journal Square-33rd via Hoboken and Newark-WTC on weekends has pretty much been the norm for a long, long time before 9/11. And 30 minute headways during the overnight was also the norm. (Although it should be a little more frequent than that, but that's a conversation for another day.)
Anyone paying tolls on the GWB or the Lincoln or Holland Tunnel would have an alternate suggestion for what could have been done with cost savings.
And to have overnight service more frequently than every 35 minutes is another extravagance that can't be afforded. Ridership is just not high enough. You do however, have to continue to offer an alternative to UBER because with a bridge or tunnel fare to pay the cost would be significant.
Don't forget, it was cost overruns early in the project that caused CORE to be stopped. Those commuter rail tunnels under the Hudson are desperately needed too.
Can't really argue that the PA as real estate developer never made much sense and it is a stretch from its original mission. You can certainly make the case that the rebuilding generally should have been done faster and cheaper.
But if we were expecting Larry Silverstien and his insurers to rebuild the WTC as a private project we'd still be waiting. Pataki had to take away the project away from the Lower Manhattan Redevelopment Corporation which he specifically created as a private/public partnership to keep NJ influence in the PA away from the rebuilding lower Manhattan. But they could not do it. Whatever the faults and costs, the PA got the job done at long last where others couldn't.
Maybe the right economic answer is we didn't need the office building rebuilt. But that was not politically acceptable it seems.
The transit center makes more sense for the PA than the office building of course as at least transportation is the core mission of the agency.
But if we were expecting Larry Silverstien and his insurers to rebuild the WTC as a private project we'd still be waiting. Pataki had to take away the project away from the Lower Manhattan Redevelopment Corporation which he specifically created as a private/public partnership to keep NJ influence in the PA away from the rebuilding lower Manhattan. But they could not do it. Whatever the faults and costs, the PA got the job done at long last where others couldn't.
Maybe the right economic answer is we didn't need the office building rebuilt. But that was not politically acceptable it seems.
The transit center makes more sense for the PA than the office building of course as at least transportation is the core mission of the agency.
Well they would have a fair argument.
Overnight service is not an extravegance. Overnight trains are PACKED. Ridership for the PATH is growing at leaps and bounds. Once the HBLR is extended to Bergen it is only going to go up.
End of the day, PATH belongs with the MTA.
Mass transit is not meant to be profitable. If that is the reason, we can stop paving and plowing suburban cul de sacs with 5 residents.
WTC-HOB used to run on the weekend and there used to be express on the Newark line to WTC during rush hour. I believe the weekend JSQ-33 also did not always stop at HOB.
Alternatives...
The PATH should move to MTA control and the MTA directed to expand the 7 to Secaucus.
The real estate should be sold to the highest bidder.
The bridges should be run by the NJ Turnpike Authority and NY Thruway Authority.
And the airports can go to the respective states.
The PATH should move to MTA control and the MTA directed to expand the 7 to Secaucus.
The real estate should be sold to the highest bidder.
The bridges should be run by the NJ Turnpike Authority and NY Thruway Authority.
And the airports can go to the respective states.
Spoken like a typical lib, cost is irrelevant. Also, those 5 houses pay way more in taxes than the cost of road maintenance, so you are making no sense. Besides, most residential roads are built/paid for by the developer so you can't factor in initial construction costs.
I'll be honest, not a day goes by I'm not walking through penn station during my morning commute praying this isn't he day I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time, unfortunately it really is inevitable even with all the military presence in the stations daily
Would you rethink your suggestions after considering the following?
-The MTA, in addition to running, maintaining, and expanding the world's oldest, arguably most complex subway system, already runs two extremely busy railroads (Metro-North NY-CT, LIRR intrastate), runs an extensive five-borough bus system, and already owns seven bridges and two tunnels (including the Verrazano, whose one-way toll is currently an absurd $16). I agree with the 7 train eventually being expanded to NJ (the Hudson Yards station was a natural first step), but the much greater priority now is construction of new and rehabilitation of 110-year-old Amtrak/NJTransit trans-Hudson rail tunnels with infrastructure damaged by Sandy.
-I agree about the real estate, especially for most of the World Trade Center properties, but only after construction is complete. At this point the last thing NYC needs is more delays in completing one of the arguably most extensive, complex, and emotionally/politically charged construction projects in its history (5 office towers, a PATH & 11 subway line transportation hub, museum/memorial for the fallen towers, and heavily secure foundation/vehicle check system) At the point when each tower is completed, sell or lease space (whichever is more profitable), leaving yourself several headquarters floors in the Freedown Tower.
-Are you referring to the Tappan-Zee and George Washington Bridges? I could see the NY State Thruway Authority and NJ Turnpike Authority managing the bridges at their respective ends, but both already have moderate- to-heavily tolled highways that are undergoing heavy expansion and maintenance as is.
-I disagree about airports entirely. Isn't the whole point of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to manage regional interstate commerce, for which shipping ports and airports are vital connection points? For example, LaGuardia is about to get an extensive multi-billion $ full reconstruction, JFK is in good shape, and Newark is adequate but rather limited by its surrounding area.
Does not fit with the surroundings. Does not look very functional as a transportation hub. Tear it down start again. Spend money on something else and just build a train station not a monument to an overpaid primary architect.
At least in the 80's, the JSQ-33 DID stop in Hoboken on the weekends. I worked in Manhattan at the time, and when I had to work Saturday's that's how I got to 23rd St.
BTW, I never said overnight service is an extravagance. But overnight service every 10 minutes IS.
The MTA isn't exceptionally well run, but one thing the subway does provide is consistent 24-7 service and replacement service when they do work, two things which the PA has fought. And the MTA (even with delays) expanded the 7 and is working on the 2nd ave line. With the PA, it was only when David Samson "lobbied" United for a flight to his summer home that the PA contemplated expanding the PATH to EWR, and the study alone is costing millions.
My other idea would be make a commission with members of the cities that are stakeholders on the PATH line, perhaps even voted on by the city residents.
The way the federal law is worded, the PA has control where the work is interstate, and thus the GWB would be in their purview but not the Tap (without looking I don't know has that but my guess is the Thruway Authority). That said, I understand why both states want a say and why those connections are federally important for security reasons.
In terms of the airports I think there can be flexibility. IMO EWR and JFK are good, not great, versus some other major hubs I've been to (LAX awful; Heathrow pleasant).
Should not be every 10 minutes. Should be on the same schedule as the overnight subway, which is 15-25 depending. 35 is ridiculous.
No cost is very relevant. Shall we talk about how much your boss' shenanigans at the PA have cost the NJ taxpayer? BTW, here in JC, with the most people in the state and the most property taxes paid, by your definition we should call the shots on spending. Not to mention the tax dollars that all the businesses in Jersey City and Newark bring in versus say deep red Sussex and Warren counties that consistently trail in every economic indicator. Jersey City has among the best, if not the best, job growth in the entire state. In significant part because it's easy to get to.
Also, why is that you and Christie are so angry about the PATH, but not the PATCO, which runs 24-7 between South Jersey and Philly? I'm sure it has nothing to do with the South Jersey political machine...
That said your Christiecrat ideology is showing. The CONSERVATIVE mayor of London recently made the Tube 24-7 on some lines. NJ Transit has some buses that run overnight to the reddest parts of the state with high frequency including the 139 off the top of my head. It was Rudy Giuliani that actually made the subway safe to ride in late hours.
The idea that you would attempt to turn public transportation into a left-right issue shows the level of discourse which sunk under Christie. There is not a single Republican or Democratic mayor of any sizeable city who in 2016 would seek to cut overnight transportation and in fact most are adding and increasing because it saves us all money in the long run.
Overnight trains are packed. Packed with who? And now you have your answer.
Everyone...people going to EWR, workers, and people who have been drinking.
My guess is the people claiming the PATH is not packed have never rode it. Good luck sitting down on any train from around Friday at 4 to Monday at 10.
I think you missed my point. Overnight trains are packed with people who decision makers do not care about. Young drunk people and people who work overnight shifts.
Fair enough. They should care about the tourism dollars. Hotels in JC are packed with Europeans.
There are a lot of good, non partisan arguments about what 24-7 transportation does for NJ.
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