My old house in Arizona near Paradise Valley Mall is now $400k purchased for about $100k in the 1980’s. Wish I kept it.
That's great, and that's a nice area. A house purchased in Spring Lake in the 1980's in the $200,000s is now worth multiple millions ($2-4M) in today's market. Quite the difference, and we can play ping pong on this all day.
Most teachers make less than cops
The star ledger use to publish average NJ cop salaries by towns. The average suburb cop salaries with OT is more like $130-150k. It might be higher since it was a couple of years ago. They are overcompensated.
I disagree that 130-150K, for being a cop in the more crowded regions of NJ, is overcompensated.
Stronger and more effective unions. They also work night shifts, odd hours, and all year round. Not really an apples and oranges comparison. It is fashionable among certain segments to trash and minimize the work of the police, but even in the suburbs, they have to handle very difficult and dangerous situations (while not as often in the cities). Someone do a one to one comparison on the hours worked, and then we can consider the more difficult aspects of police work.
A lot of these rankings are questionable, though. Best Places to Do Business rankings often puts low-cost states at the top and high-cost places like New York and New Jersey near the bottom, yet if those places were so horrible for doing business how do they have the highest incomes in the country?NJ in top 5 to start a business according to Inc.com
Here Are the 5 Best States to Start a Business. 3 of Them Will Surprise You
New York and Massachusetts didn't make the list. Who did?www.inc.com
Agreed. I am not familiar with Inc.com or how they do rankings but I saw the article and thought it would be good for this discussion
$130-150k is normally the salary for managers in the private sector. Are all cops considered manager? If people think teachers are overpaid at $90k, then cops are overpaid.
Depends on the company but managers in many tech companies are earning more than that. I also don't think teachers would be overpaid at $90K or at 130-150K if they are good teachers.
The overall cost is less because there are way more teachers than cops
Well, don’t people want to control their property taxes, the taxes are going to pay your teachers and law enforcement officers. As someone that prepared budgets for over 30 years and tried to control cost, I call it as I see it. I’m someone that could solve all the deficits but no one would like it because it means cutting cost.
people always want more than they pay for. better police, better teachers, better public services. but lower taxes. it doesn't work that way. you typically get what you pay for. if you don't want for much, by all means, move somewhere with lower taxes and less services. but to move somewhere because of the quantity and quality of its public services, complaining about paying for it is just whining.
Americans have long been sold the idea that they should get more for less--somehow. Offshoring manufacturing is a variety of that: "you're getting the same products you used to get but at a cheaper price!" But one look at what comes out of China and India--nails that bend with one hit of a hammer and screws with heads that strip if they come across the slightest resistance--dispels this idea. You're not getting the same for less, you're getting less for less. Some things in life you just have to pay for.
It also reflects the difference in parties, however. If you're a Democrat and don't support police, even when they brutalize people, you will likely be called soft on crime and booted from office. If you're a Republican who does not support teachers and even badmouths them and accuses them of terrible things you will not get booted from office. Your voters will applaud you.
I don't think that is true for everyone in either case. Segments of both parties, yes.
I agree that government should be as efficient as possible, as a general principle. I just don't think low-paying first responder or teacher salaries is a wise trade-off to control costs. There are few exceptions to the "get what you pay for" rule. And policing and teaching aren't among them, IMO.
Pensions should be based on base salary. Unused sick and vacation time payouts need to be capped.
The sheer volume is the real difference. Education costs drive every budget at the State and Local level. The cost of police does not.
Overtime is not included in a NJ police officers pension
Pensions are based on regular base salary in NJ. Overtime and other compensation is not considered in the pension
Yes it is in certain towns. Maybe not state troopers. It may not be exactly 1 for 1 but they use it in calculations.
No it is governed by State statute. From the PFRS Guide:
If you are saying they use overtime in the calculation of pension in NJ you are absolutely wrong
I was going to go find this. It is just another example of people thinking something is a fact about the pension when the reality is they are basing their opinion on completely false information
That is not paid by the town
When the gas, electric or other companies have road construction on busy roads they are required to have police there. It is OT for police so they are paid at OT rates. The town bills that rate back to the gas or electric company. That OT time is not paid out of your property tax money.
It quite possibly may have been that way, and perhaps some may still be grandfathered.
