I was in 2 Treasury departments. OMB and a short period at Pensions.
OT: NJ is Second in Nation in Quality of Life
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Great post- and this is the quandary. The reality for me- while having kids at school age and not going private with them- oldest was recruited to come to DB(all expense paid) from the moment he entered 8th grade- he wanted no part of it. But- the point is- for most of NJ and without a doubt, many of the NNJ towns, the public school system is great. The police depts, roads, pretty much everything is really top of the line.
So- I get it- a big part of taxes go there. But...12-20k for a home under 800k?
And, the 800k gets you a home that is 400k elsewhere.
IF you have the money- NJ is worth it. The problem is- there really is a lot of people that either just can't "afford, worth it..." If you cannot afford NJ- the state can really suck. If you have it, it is great.
Your assessment of others- made me laugh and very much spot on-
Some great southern states- their lovely warm welcome- is fake as hell. A bunch of other states- outright, unfriendly. (and damn, try being an interracial family)
Upstate NY - hard call. First, LOL, what is upstate. If you are in NYC or NJ- Newburgh/Poughkeepsie, is called upstate.
Town like Hyde Park- maybe one of the most beautiful, iconic small towns, USA. But only 1.5 hours from the city- they are receptive to diversity. and great place to live and maybe not that boring- but weather does suck. lol
The rest of upstate NY- yeah- you go above Dutchess county- boring(but beautiful) and many areas where there is the 5+ generation home- many of the current generation- not able to even spell meth, much less, make it.
It is so damn hard to figure out where to live, sometimes, maybe you just have to accept- grass isn't always greener.
I just hope that retirement- a 15-25k property tax isnt the main reason to leave on a fixed income.
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A lot of NY people moved upstate since 2020
Ulster is getting like a 6th borough
West side of the Hudson is best for quality of life because there is no train to bring the masses
I think people should look to be away from bigger cities and closer to agriculture.
I think people are underestimating the direction the globe is moving in
I recall you liked Ashokan area (not mine lol).
Its nice up there and still in spitting distance of what remains of civlization
Ashokan Reservoir is a beautiful place and great memories. Haven’t Ben there since 72. But a few buddies and I had a nice cabin just above Phoenicia for years.
I grew up on the east side of the Hudson in Hyde Park. Great little town…
But even those areas are not really upstate. But you get to far out of Ulster and Dutchess , you do start running into those ‘meth’ havens.
Yes but the rates are still insane, why it's mandated is dumb, and then the town/contractor/utility has to pass it down to someone which is the home owner.
Jumping into the conversation late. Also @Zak57 ..... a few things:
OT is not part of police pensions
The cost of police are not a driver of property taxes for suburban towns. Breakdown of Monty:
70% of property taxes are schools
12% county
12% township
Remaining 6% = fire districts, local open space, county open space, county library
Out of the township's $30m budget, police account for $5-6m in direct costs and probably $7-8m in total. This is for a police staff of 32-33 officers and 4-5 civilian support employees
These numbers can significantly change based on state aid (towns and education). Obviously, we are an affluent town, so out of the 550+ municipalities and whatever many school districts, we get very low per capita aid (and damn close to the lowest). So we pay for almost everything. LOL!
Most officers in suburban towns with 10+ years of experience are likely bringing home more than $100k per year. OT is based on management of the town/city. We cut OT by 2/3. You need the PD to be sized appropriately to minimize coverage OT, but no matter what you do, OT happens everywhere to some extent. Rates are high, but public safety is important so it never bothered me much.
Interesting perspective of a former teacher.
www.businessinsider.com
How to 'quiet quit,' from a former teacher who did it for 2 years so she could enjoy a better life while still getting a paycheck
Maggie Perkins prefers the term "quiet working" to "quiet quitting," saying she was still engaged in her job but decided she wouldn't work overtime.
www.businessinsider.com
She perfectly summarized how prioritization, compartmentalization and "just saying no" have allowed me to stay in the profession for 32 years so far.Interesting perspective of a former teacher.
How to 'quiet quit,' from a former teacher who did it for 2 years so she could enjoy a better life while still getting a paycheck
Maggie Perkins prefers the term "quiet working" to "quiet quitting," saying she was still engaged in her job but decided she wouldn't work overtime.
Unions and tenure protect lazy workers.Interesting perspective of a former teacher.
How to 'quiet quit,' from a former teacher who did it for 2 years so she could enjoy a better life while still getting a paycheck
Maggie Perkins prefers the term "quiet working" to "quiet quitting," saying she was still engaged in her job but decided she wouldn't work overtime.
As usual, you are a one-trick pony, and you did not read the article. There is a lot more to it than unions and tenure. Not a lot of people are going to continually work 60 hours per week for low pay. Would you put in 60 hours per week at a job that paid $60,000/year when you could figure out a way to do the job adequately at 40 hours per week?
Have seen similar things in corporate jobs from non-executive level employees. Sure, you can "work hard" to get ahead, but if you are not going to get ahead, what is the use in working harder, unless you are extremely dedicated to your profession and enjoy the satisfaction of putting in maximum effort for minimum pay. It does not apply to only teachers:
Shows a very lazy and entitled young person. Don't want to work hard to get ahead. Whether you are teaching or putting together TPS reports, lazy behavior should not be rewarded by union salary steps and eventually tenure.As usual, you are a one-trick pony, and you did not read the article. There is a lot more to it than unions and tenure. Not a lot of people are going to continually work 60 hours per week for low pay. Would you put in 60 hours per week at a job that paid $60,000/year when you could figure out a way to do the job adequately at 40 hours per week?
Have seen similar things in corporate jobs from non-executive level employees. Sure, you can "work hard" to get ahead, but if you are not going to get ahead, what is the use in working harder, unless you are extremely dedicated to your profession and enjoy the satisfaction of putting in maximum effort for minimum pay. It does not apply to only teachers:
As for your question, would I work 60 hours/week for $60k? Yes, of course. If that's the best offer I can get, you got to go above and beyond to progress. Been there, done that.
You either still did not read the article, or you just want to continually piss on teachers based on some narrative/talking points. This is not in defense of teachers. It is a simple statement of proper management: the employer setting job expectations and providing the proper setting for employees to be motivated and to feel valued. This is true of any job.
Back to the article, the teacher decided to pursue a PhD and a career where here effort may better translate into earning more money. But you want to piss on teachers. That does not make them feel valued. Do you tell your children's teachers that they are lazy and entitled?
I'll be stepping away from the profession in the next year or two. Feel free to get your physics teaching certification to fill my shoes (because right now, administrations can't find anyone) to see how much nonsense and fully expected volunteering has been part of the profession for decades.
You'll learn to be happy there is an organization that can defend you when administrators looking to make a name for themselves using nonsensical measures of competence want to make cracking down on you the way they ascend from asst. principal to principal to superintendent.
In private schools, teachers are motivated, talented, and wonderful. No unions to stifle excellence.
I love physics! I did a physics minor at RU while in the engineering program. Astrophysics was my favorite class.
She was only learning how to become more efficient after 2 years. It takes about one year to understand the job and then 2-5 years to learn to make it more efficient. A new employee is only 40-60% efficient compared to a employee working there over 3 years. This is the same in the private sector or public sector. Whenever I left a job, it caused chaos because the new employee was overwhelmed and didn’t know how to juggle the responsibilities when they started, some quit.Interesting perspective of a former teacher.
How to 'quiet quit,' from a former teacher who did it for 2 years so she could enjoy a better life while still getting a paycheck
Maggie Perkins prefers the term "quiet working" to "quiet quitting," saying she was still engaged in her job but decided she wouldn't work overtime.
My sister worked as a teacher for 30 years and she made it seem easy. She was extremely strict. However, she did tell me about hellish situation where a minority 3rd grader claimed she called him a racist name. The parent came after her but the principal, a minority, believed my sister. 3rd graders use to swear at her also. The school was in Paterson, actually the school we attended when we were kids.
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Who says you have to "work hard" to get ahead? Putting in OT is not working hard imo. It's working stupid. And for those fortunate enough to be making good money, this idea of "working hard" is at the expense of the other areas of your life. You can always find ways to make more money. But you can't make more time in a day to spend with family, friends, or pursue a passion project.
IMO, it takes a certain personality type to want to be and remain a teacher. That personality type does it for the love of the job, not for the money. But at a certain point, all human beings want to feel like they are being rewarded for their effort (or their own perceived effort). If someone is inefficient, new and/or not cut out for the job, they may have the feeling that they are working too hard for the money they are being paid. Another personality type that may not seem to be suited to be a teacher is a type A or corporate climber personality. There are not to many positions to climb to within school systems, unless you include chair of a department, vice principal, or principal, but with those positions, I believe you are required to have at least a master's degree, and it seems many principals now have at least an Ed.D. But those are few and far between.
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No they aren't. My sister sent her kids to a private school for a year, a Catholic school. It was not very good, it was too easy, and an awful lot of time was spent on religious stuff. The people who stifle excellence in the classroom are meddling politicians and the public.
She also claimed it’s easier to teach now then when she started teaching. Now, there are teacher aides in the classroom to help with the teaching. When she started it was just herself. At the end of her career, she helped with the difficult students, ADHD and help the new teacher in the classroom. They finally forced her out by telling her she was being transferred to another unfamiliar school probably because she was overpaid in the 90k range.
It's working hard when you are young and learning your craft. Don't be lazy. The hours I put in starting my career allows me to post on this fine board during the week as a department/function lead. LOL!
Still doesn't mean exorbitant long hours. I know what that's like and have come to realize that I would have gotten to the same place anyway without them.
He doesn't realize that as you move up, it's less about sheer workload and more about smarts and knowledge. This is the natural evolution of increasing responsibility. Even the projects I directly lead, I can do them in a fraction of the time as compared to 10-15 years ago. Perks are that I have a large team to make the trains run on this. However, strategic accountability is on me and when the CEO has an urgent need, I need to get it done whether at night or over the weekend.
Optimally--and in theory. I worked on a Y2K project for Union Bank of California, a Fortune 50 company, charged with updating their servers and workstations to comply with federal government regulations or risk being shut down. One day the boss confessed she knew nothing about computers. No doubt all bosses think they work smarter not harder. No doubt true in some cases, not so much in others.
Says the guy who spends over 40+ hr per week posting here. LOL
An a-hole or incompetent boss can screw up anything, but the general trend I laid out is the norm for most careers and functions.
Your keystrokes are monitored. And can and will be used against you as needed.
I tell my team all the time that I don't understand the real technical details of what they are doing. But that doesn't stop me from being an effective leader. Technical isn't my job anymore...I need to understand and tell them why they are doing what they are supposed doing... not the how. My job is to make sure they are equipped to deliver what we are supposed to deliver, and be the one responsible for all of it in front of the executives.
A story about a dedicated teacher from Jersey City. In our personal experience, the large majority of our kids' teachers were dedicated to their profession and the mission of teaching.
You sure you're not a coastal elitist in disguise? Are you making the claim that everyone has an extra $45K per year to spend on private school like the ones in your area (i.e. Stuart, Pennington, Princeton Day)?
he's an elitist who doesn't want other to be able to attain elite status.
Not sure how this thread got here, but I guess it was somewhat predictable. I am entering my 21st year as a teacher. I absolutely love teaching and will do 11 more years and then quit as soon as I can. I would not advise anyone to go into the profession out of college for a million reasons. The biggest one just might be the absolute lack of respect for teacher displayed right here in this thread. From parents to government officials to administrators to students, it's hard to go to work every day knowing a lot of people think you suck.
As this thread has proven (again), the people who suck are the ones who rag on teachers, not the teachers themselves.
It goes to what I posted earlier in the thread. There's a perception problem in the US about education. It's growing worse as certain special interest groups and lots of newer politicians do everything they can to devalue education, devalue knowledge and facts, and devalue science and reasoning.
To me, this is a national security issue at this point. The entire nation is reeling from misinformation and disinformation and feel unable to determine verifiable, useful, information. There's been no better time in our nation's history when the quality of early education through HS education has been more crucial to our future.
And, pretty obviously, teachers are a huge component in that.
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