OT: NY Rangers fans

[e5fdny]

Why do so many Devils fans hate the Rangers? I grew up going to Rangers and Knicks games and can say without a doubt that there is no place like the garden for sports and concerts but why the hate? The Devils had a great run and as a Jersey guy I was happy for them. Didn’t follow closely but rooted for them all the way when not playing the Rangers. I go to Devils games here and there with friends and still go to the Garden as well. Night and day environment so is that the reason?

I was in my 20's when the Devils came into existence and a long time Ranger fan. It almost seems, in their minds, like I was supposed to switch just because they're a NJ team.

First of all I don’t hate the Rangers as it’s good for Hockey when they’re good too.

I was in my teens when Devils moved here. We went to one of the first games at the Brendan Byrne against the Rangers that year. Sat way up top.

And yeah, it’s nice to have something of your own for a change instead of sharing it.

 

[NickRU714]

For all the older Devils fans, which team did you root for prior to the Devils? I grew up in Union County and we were mostly Ranger fans. There were a lot of Flyers fans as well due to the Bullies. Not many Islander fans even after the 4 cups. Most Devil fans I knew were Rangers fans that jumped to the Devils because they were a NJ team.

Devils were already a team when I was born so never had to switch.

I think about the Nets though. Been a Nets fan all my life (NJ and now Brooklyn).
If an expansion team came to Newark, I doubt I would switch all of sudden.
Would probably casually follow (like I do the Knicks) and attend games though - mostly to see specific players/teams.

It would be weird though.
No way would I even consider switching if a current team relocated to NJ.

 

[hankee18]

Nets/Devils were on Sportschannel

Knicks/Rangers were on MSG

Sportschannel was a pay channel on my cable back then, MSG was free. Took us forever to convince our parents to get cable - there was no way they were paying for anything extra

Simple economics how I became a Rangers/Knicks fan

 

[mdk01]

Nets/Devils were on Sportschannel

Knicks/Rangers were on MSG

Sportschannel was a pay channel on my cable back then, MSG was free. Took us forever to convince our parents to get cable - there was no way they were paying for anything extra

Simple economics how I became a Rangers/Knicks fan

Cable? I was watching the Rangers play on Channel 9 Saturday nights when I was in 6th-7th grade. Rod Gilbert.

 

[hankee18]

Cable? I was watching the Rangers play on Channel 9 Saturday nights when I was in 6th-7th grade. Rod Gilbert.

I didn't come on-board til about 1989 or so. I do remember my older brother listening to Islanders games on the radio at night during their run

 

[tico brown]

Someone does not remember walking through that wind tunnel in February lol that was a miserable experience.

Prudential Center is miles above CAA IMO, and as somebody that has gone to multiple arenas around the league including Montreal, it ranks amoung the NHL's best. Only negative i have is the concession selection.

Just wondering if I would be the only person at a Devils game who would get something from Goya?

 

[RUInsanity]

For all the older Devils fans, which team did you root for prior to the Devils? I grew up in Union County and we were mostly Ranger fans. There were a lot of Flyers fans as well due to the Bullies. Not many Islander fans even after the 4 cups. Most Devil fans I knew were Rangers fans that jumped to the Devils because they were a NJ team.

After moving, the Devils pretty much remained the Colorado Rockies to me probably until the early 90's. Rangers were the only game in town when I grew up fan playing street hockey emulating guys like Esposito, Davidson, Don Maloney, Gresch and even Duguay. Funny that I learned to skate at South Mountain Arena which became practice facility for the Devils.

 

[robcac26]

It’s obvious that was a troll post to get your cackles up, and it did. And, as you mentioned, it’s not not the first time. You have an issue with Messier, understandably so. Christ, NYR fans STILL chant ”Povin sucks” about a top 5 all time Dman. And like them, you are entitled to your opinion. But, the reality is, just like with them, the vast majority of the fans, players, and management in the hockey playing world doesn’t agree with you. Repeating your opinion over and over probably won’t ever change that.

Welp, if he was just trying to troll me, then I guess you're right--I took the bait. However, I think you're off with the rest of your post. I don't have some personal beef with him like the Rangers fans with Potvin, I enjoyed watching him as a kid because I was a fan of both the Rangers and Devils until I eventually realized that didn't make much sense, and I still consider Leetch and Richter two of my favorite players of all-time. I have no issue with saying Messier is one of the best players ever and was obviously a tremendous captain for the Rangers. I just think that "best leader ever" is such a lofty title, that it's hard for me to believe that over the course of a century, there hasn't been a leader better than a guy who got one of his fanbases to completely despise him for dismantling the roster and setting the team back years. Those who praise him always just dismiss that part of his career as if 1994 excuses it all.

If you disagree with me, fine, but I don't see how any of my criticism is childish. The "2.5 Cups" and "one since 1940" stuff is childish, I just responded to an opinion with a list of well-documented facts backing up why I disagree, I'd think that's the opposite of being childish. It's not like "best leader" is something that is clearly quantifiable anyway, there's nothing wrong with differing opinions, and it's not like I'm the only person who feels this way as if it's some bizarre hot take--if this board had a majority of Canucks fans, my opinion would be the majority opinion.

 

[Section124]

Living in the NY/NJ/CT/PA region, the one thing I am always jealous of is most regions of this country just have 1 professional team in each sport. It makes it a lot easier for those areas to come together to support their teams. For hockey around here it's not so bad since most of those teams I mentioned are rivals. Gets harder in baseball where you have Yankees/Mets fans going at it when Boston is the Yanks real rival. We love to eat our own around here.

 

[mdk01]

After moving, the Devils pretty much remained the Colorado Rockies to me probably until the early 90's. Rangers were the only game in town when I grew up fan playing street hockey emulating guys like Esposito, Davidson, Don Maloney, Gresch and even Duguay. Funny that I learned to skate at South Mountain Arena which became practice facility for the Devils.

Esposito was a Bruin to me. Also some great graffiti up in Massachusetts during the Orr, Esposito years .

On the side of an old barn originally:

Christ Saves

Added:

But Espo scores on the rebound.

 

[robcac26]

Living in the NY/NJ/CT/PA region, the one thing I am always jealous of is most regions of this country just have 1 professional team in each sport. It makes it a lot easier for those areas to come together to support their teams. For hockey around here it's not so bad since most of those teams I mentioned are rivals. Gets harder in baseball where you have Yankees/Mets fans going at it when Boston is the Yanks real rival. We love to eat our own around here.

Yeah I've felt this way for a long time too. It's cool to see places like Philly, Boston, Chicago, etc all rally behind their team and it's a shame we'll never have that here. I guess if Rutgers gets good enough to draw in bandwagoners again, we could almost have that here since there aren't any other FBS teams in the NYC area, although there are so many frontrunners that already have fan allegiances to Notre Dame, Penn State, etc.

 

[goru1869]

For all the older Devils fans, which team did you root for prior to the Devils? I grew up in Union County and we were mostly Ranger fans. There were a lot of Flyers fans as well due to the Bullies. Not many Islander fans even after the 4 cups. Most Devil fans I knew were Rangers fans that jumped to the Devils because they were a NJ team.

Left the crappy rag wagon when the good doctor brought the team to Jersey.

 

[e5fdny]

Esposito was a Bruin to me. Also some great graffiti up in Massachusetts during the Orr, Esposito years .

On the side of an old barn originally:

Christ Saves

Added:

But Espo scores on the rebound.

I saw the bumper sticker:

Jesus saves but Espo knocks in the rebound.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

After moving, the Devils pretty much remained the Colorado Rockies to me probably until the early 90's. Rangers were the only game in town when I grew up fan playing street hockey emulating guys like Esposito, Davidson, Don Maloney, Gresch and even Duguay. Funny that I learned to skate at South Mountain Arena which became practice facility for the Devils.

Devils knocked the Rangers out of the playoffs in 1988

They beat Chicago in OT the last game of the season to make the playoffs. A must win. If they tied or lost the Rangers would have got in instead

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Newark's 2.5 cups was a fluke. Got lucky with Lou and Marty. Mickey Mouse org before them, Mickey Mouse org after them. :)

Rags have 1 Cup if you’re thinking in those terms. They didn’t win 4 playoff rounds in their first 3 Cups. 😁😉

 

[zappaa]

Some unhealthy hatred going on that goes beyond sports fun

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

What about Patrick Ewing and his guarantees?😂

Richter saved Mark’s ass

he was the mvp of that series

Devils could have easily been up 4 goals in Game-6 and routed them. Richter stood on his head unfortunately

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

My brother was a Rangers fan but he switched to the Devils from day 1 in 1982

I became a Devils fan when I was old enough to watch cuz of him but I would have chosen them anyways on my own since they are New Jersey and were a 10 minute drive from my house

Ive seen a ton of playoff games in person mostly at the Meadowlands but also some at The Rock.
Some heartbreak but big time series clinching wins too

Hockey was more intense and just better from around 1992 through 2012

 

[mdh2003]

Welp, if he was just trying to troll me, then I guess you're right--I took the bait. However, I think you're off with the rest of your post. I don't have some personal beef with him like the Rangers fans with Potvin, I enjoyed watching him as a kid because I was a fan of both the Rangers and Devils until I eventually realized that didn't make much sense, and I still consider Leetch and Richter two of my favorite players of all-time. I have no issue with saying Messier is one of the best players ever and was obviously a tremendous captain for the Rangers. I just think that "best leader ever" is such a lofty title, that it's hard for me to believe that over the course of a century, there hasn't been a leader better than a guy who got one of his fanbases to completely despise him for dismantling the roster and setting the team back years. Those who praise him always just dismiss that part of his career as if 1994 excuses it all.

If you disagree with me, fine, but I don't see how any of my criticism is childish. The "2.5 Cups" and "one since 1940" stuff is childish, I just responded to an opinion with a list of well-documented facts backing up why I disagree, I'd think that's the opposite of being childish. It's not like "best leader" is something that is clearly quantifiable anyway, there's nothing wrong with differing opinions, and it's not like I'm the only person who feels this way as if it's some bizarre hot take--if this board had a majority of Canucks fans, my opinion would be the majority opinion.

Yeah, because your “facts” are so even handed, lol. Honestly, not sure why anyone would care that much to argue either way. That’s the silly part. The reality is guys from Emrick to Daneyko and the majority of the hockey world in between don’t agree with you. Stomping your feet doesn’t undo all of that. But hey, you have great company. Maybe the biggest Messier “detractor“ of all time was Puddy. And we can ALL agree: that guy was friggin awesome!

 

[robcac26]

Yeah, because your “facts” are so even handed, lol. Honestly, not sure why anyone would care that much to argue either way. That’s the silly part. The reality is guys from Emrick to Daneyko and the majority of the hockey world in between don’t agree with you. Stomping your feet doesn’t undo all of that. But hey, you have great company. Maybe the biggest Messier “detractor“ of all time was Puddy. And we can ALL agree: that guy was friggin awesome!

Well of course the facts aren't even-handed when he did much more bad than good in Vancouver lol. If you or anyone else think anything I said isn't factual and can refute it, feel free. The only responses I ever get are that there's an award named after him (which he named after himself) and that most people disagree with me. Again, none of his supporters ever address his shortcomings in the second half of his years as captain, to them nothing after 97 ever happened.

Yzerman, the longest-tenured captain in NHL history, took a struggling Red Wings team and led them to becoming a perennial contender for a very long time. Mario Lemieux led the Penguins to back-to-back Cups and then took over as owner and brought them from the brink of moving to Hamilton and won 3 more Cups in Pittsburgh. Jean Beliveau was captain for 10 years and won the Cup in half of his captaincy. But no, the best leader ever is someone who led his team to missing the playoffs for half of his captaincy.

Anyway, I've made my point. If anyone cares to read further, here's more about Messier from a Canucks' perspective in a few articles and a long forum thread.

Why Mark Messier is still the most hated player in Canucks history

Top 15 Reasons Vancouver Canucks Fans Hate Mark Messier

Why Mark Messier is Often Regarded the Worst/Most Hated Vancouver Canuck of All Time.

On a different note, speaking of that Game 6--I've met Stephane Matteau a number of times because my boss at the rink I worked at was a former Rangers assistant GM, so he'd get NHL guys to come in and do clinics, summer camps, etc. for the kids. Matteau would come down from Montreal a few times a year, and was easily the most down-to-Earth retired pro we'd get. He was great to talk to for both the adults and even the kids who had no idea who he was. During his summer camps, he'd always spend time off the ice just talking to the kids and answering questions about his career, etc. when some of the other pros just did the bare minimum and seemed like they couldn't wait for the day to end so they could get out of there.

 

[rutger80]

Who cares about the Devils? The real enemy is the Flyers.

 

[BigEastPhil]

How to describe Ranger Fans:

- Very loyal
- Very Knowledgeable
- Very arrogant for a franchise that has 1 Cup since 1940 while Devils have 3 and Islanders have 4 since 1980.

And I was a huge Rangers fan who suffered thru the Bruins kicking our ass in the early 70's / Flyers in mid 70's and then Islanders in early 80's.....

Games that depressed me over this tenure in order:

- 1984 Game 5 Ken Morrow OT game to oust Rangers (I don't think any game in any sport depressed me more than this game...took me 2 years to watch hockey again)

- 1974 Flyers Game 7 rout and have to puke seeing Dale Rolfe getting mauled by Dave Schultz and no Ranger sticking their beak in

- 1972 Bruins Game 6 Stanley Cup win and having to see the Big Bad Bruins hoist the Cup at MSG

- 1975 JP Parise goal in OT in 9 seconds or whatever it was (WTF !)

 

[T2Kplus20]

Well of course the facts aren't even-handed when he did much more bad than good in Vancouver lol. If you or anyone else think anything I said isn't factual and can refute it, feel free. The only responses I ever get are that there's an award named after him (which he named after himself) and that most people disagree with me. Again, none of his supporters ever address his shortcomings in the second half of his years as captain, to them nothing after 97 ever happened.

Anyway, I've made my point. If anyone cares to read further, here's more about Messier from a Canucks' perspective in a few articles and a long forum thread.

Why Mark Messier is still the most hated player in Canucks history

Top 15 Reasons Vancouver Canucks Fans Hate Mark Messier

Why Mark Messier is Often Regarded the Worst/Most Hated Vancouver Canuck of All Time.

On a different note, speaking of that Game 6--I've met Stephane Matteau a number of times because my boss at the rink I worked at was a former Rangers assistant GM, so he'd get NHL guys to come in and do clinics, summer camps, etc. for the kids. Matteau would come down from Montreal a few times a year, and was easily the most down-to-Earth retired pro we'd get. He was great to talk to for both the adults and even the kids who had no idea who he was. During his summer camps, he'd always spend time off the ice just talking to the kids and answering questions about his career, etc. when some of the other pros just did the bare minimum and seemed like they couldn't wait for the day to end so they could get out of there.

^^^^^ I think Messier broke your brain. LOL! Funny post.

 

[mdh2003]

Well of course the facts aren't even-handed when he did much more bad than good in Vancouver lol. If you or anyone else think anything I said isn't factual and can refute it, feel free. The only responses I ever get are that there's an award named after him (which he named after himself) and that most people disagree with me. Again, none of his supporters ever address his shortcomings in the second half of his years as captain, to them nothing after 97 ever happened.

Anyway, I've made my point. If anyone cares to read further, here's more about Messier from a Canucks' perspective in a few articles and a long forum thread.

Why Mark Messier is still the most hated player in Canucks history

Top 15 Reasons Vancouver Canucks Fans Hate Mark Messier

Why Mark Messier is Often Regarded the Worst/Most Hated Vancouver Canuck of All Time.

On a different note, speaking of that Game 6--I've met Stephane Matteau a number of times because my boss at the rink I worked at was a former Rangers assistant GM, so he'd get NHL guys to come in and do clinics, summer camps, etc. for the kids. Matteau would come down from Montreal a few times a year, and was easily the most down-to-Earth retired pro we'd get. He was great to talk to for both the adults and even the kids who had no idea who he was. During his summer camps, he'd always spend time off the ice just talking to the kids and answering questions about his career, etc. when some of the other pros just did the bare minimum and seemed like they couldn't wait for the day to end so they could get out of there.

Lol. Just paint your face and be done with it.

 

[rutger80]

How to describe Ranger Fans:

- Very loyal
- Very Knowledgeable
- Very arrogant for a franchise that has 1 Cup since 1940 while Devils have 3 and Islanders have 4 since 1980.

And I was a huge Rangers fan who suffered thru the Bruins kicking our ass in the early 70's / Flyers in mid 70's and then Islanders in early 80's.....

Games that depressed me over this tenure in order:

- 1984 Game 5 Ken Morrow OT game to oust Rangers (I don't think any game in any sport depressed me more than this game...took me 2 years to watch hockey again)

- 1974 Flyers Game 7 rout and have to puke seeing Dale Rolfe getting mauled by Dave Schultz and no Ranger sticking their beak in

- 1972 Bruins Game 6 Stanley Cup win and having to see the Big Bad Bruins hoist the Cup at MSG

- 1975 JP Parise goal in OT in 9 seconds or whatever it was (WTF !)

I was actually physically ill after game 7 in '74. It was not a rout, by the way. Flyers won 4-3 and the refs called a bogus too many men on the ice call late, to end any chance. The Parise game the next year was the end of that version of the Rangers.

 

[robcac26]

^^^^^ I think Messier broke your brain. LOL! Funny post.

Ha if I was ever good enough to share the ice with him, pretty good chance that would have happened.

 

[tico brown]

Who cares about the Devils? The real enemy is the Flyers.

This is true

 

[goru1869]

Well of course the facts aren't even-handed when he did much more bad than good in Vancouver lol. If you or anyone else think anything I said isn't factual and can refute it, feel free. The only responses I ever get are that there's an award named after him (which he named after himself) and that most people disagree with me. Again, none of his supporters ever address his shortcomings in the second half of his years as captain, to them nothing after 97 ever happened.

Yzerman, the longest-tenured captain in NHL history, took a struggling Red Wings team and led them to becoming a perennial contender for a very long time. Mario Lemieux led the Penguins to back-to-back Cups and then took over as owner and brought them from the brink of moving to Hamilton and won 3 more Cups in Pittsburgh. Jean Beliveau was captain for 10 years and won the Cup in half of his captaincy. But no, the best leader ever is someone who led his team to missing the playoffs for half of his captaincy.

Anyway, I've made my point. If anyone cares to read further, here's more about Messier from a Canucks' perspective in a few articles and a long forum thread.

Why Mark Messier is still the most hated player in Canucks history

Top 15 Reasons Vancouver Canucks Fans Hate Mark Messier

Why Mark Messier is Often Regarded the Worst/Most Hated Vancouver Canuck of All Time.

On a different note, speaking of that Game 6--I've met Stephane Matteau a number of times because my boss at the rink I worked at was a former Rangers assistant GM, so he'd get NHL guys to come in and do clinics, summer camps, etc. for the kids. Matteau would come down from Montreal a few times a year, and was easily the most down-to-Earth retired pro we'd get. He was great to talk to for both the adults and even the kids who had no idea who he was. During his summer camps, he'd always spend time off the ice just talking to the kids and answering questions about his career, etc. when some of the other pros just did the bare minimum and seemed like they couldn't wait for the day to end so they could get out of there.

I feel an argument can be made that Scott Stevens was a better captain.

 

[zappaa]

I feel an argument can be made that Scott Stevens was a better captain.

Who cares

 

[T2Kplus20]

I feel an argument can be made that Scott Stevens was a better captain.

LOL! MM = twice the cups. Also, look up their head to head playoff record. No comparison.

I remember when MM beat Stevens so badly that after losing a playoff series to MM, he ran to the dressing room crying and refused to shake hands.

 

[Section124]

Well of course the facts aren't even-handed when he did much more bad than good in Vancouver lol. If you or anyone else think anything I said isn't factual and can refute it, feel free. The only responses I ever get are that there's an award named after him (which he named after himself) and that most people disagree with me. Again, none of his supporters ever address his shortcomings in the second half of his years as captain, to them nothing after 97 ever happened.

Yzerman, the longest-tenured captain in NHL history, took a struggling Red Wings team and led them to becoming a perennial contender for a very long time. Mario Lemieux led the Penguins to back-to-back Cups and then took over as owner and brought them from the brink of moving to Hamilton and won 3 more Cups in Pittsburgh. Jean Beliveau was captain for 10 years and won the Cup in half of his captaincy. But no, the best leader ever is someone who led his team to missing the playoffs for half of his captaincy.

Anyway, I've made my point. If anyone cares to read further, here's more about Messier from a Canucks' perspective in a few articles and a long forum thread.

Why Mark Messier is still the most hated player in Canucks history

Top 15 Reasons Vancouver Canucks Fans Hate Mark Messier

Why Mark Messier is Often Regarded the Worst/Most Hated Vancouver Canuck of All Time.

On a different note, speaking of that Game 6--I've met Stephane Matteau a number of times because my boss at the rink I worked at was a former Rangers assistant GM, so he'd get NHL guys to come in and do clinics, summer camps, etc. for the kids. Matteau would come down from Montreal a few times a year, and was easily the most down-to-Earth retired pro we'd get. He was great to talk to for both the adults and even the kids who had no idea who he was. During his summer camps, he'd always spend time off the ice just talking to the kids and answering questions about his career, etc. when some of the other pros just did the bare minimum and seemed like they couldn't wait for the day to end so they could get out of there.

Not for nothing but who cares he was hated as a Canuck. That was the end of his career and you are talking about a fanbase that burned their city after a loss. You can argue that Messier was the heart and soul of those Edmonton teams. Gretzky gets all the fame but it was Messier that got the big goals when needed. He was the leader of those teams as well as the Rangers (and won 2 cups without Wayne). I'll judge him more on those years.

 

[goru1869]

Who cares

You do, after all you did respond.

 

[goru1869]

LOL! MM = twice the cups. Also, look up their head to head playoff record. No comparison.

I remember when MM beat Stevens so badly that after losing a playoff series to MM, he ran to the dressing room crying and refused to shake hands.

How many did he win as a CAPTAIN?

 

[zappaa]

You do, after all you did respond.

True-
I just can’t be bothered by blind hatred of hall of fame great players, based on over the top silly hatred because of the team they played on.
Had MM never been traded to the Rangers and he played his entire career out west, this wouldn’t even be a topic

 

[goru1869]

True-
I just can’t be bothered by blind hatred of hall of fame great players, based on over the top silly hatred over the team they played on.

I never said I hated him.

 

[zappaa]

I never said I hated him.

You hate the Rangers in weird fashion.
The Devils resume far surpasses all Ranger history.
This comes from an enormous Ranger fan / Devil-Islanders hater in sports fun manor only.

 

[robcac26]

Not for nothing but who cares he was hated as a Canuck. That was the end of his career and you are talking about a fanbase that burned their city after a loss. You can argue that Messier was the heart and soul of those Edmonton teams. Gretzky gets all the fame but it was Messier that got the big goals when needed. He was the leader of those teams as well as the Rangers (and won 2 cups without Wayne). I'll judge him more on those years.

He played seven more years after signing with Vancouver, so that's half of his time as captain and about a third of his time wearing a letter, but either way it being towards the end of his career isn't an excuse for being a locker room cancer. If we're talking about his numbers dropping off, I'm not holding that against him because of course physical skills fade with age, but that's not what we're talking about. We can dismiss the fans if you want, but his teammates had a problem with him too. Keenan wasn't going to get rid of Messier since he was the reason he was brought in, so the only way he could address it was to trade away a bunch of key guys like Linden, McLean, Odjick, etc.

I mentioned before that he was obviously a tremendous captain for the Rangers, and of course a great leader for Edmonton too, but I think there should be some scrutiny before calling someone the "greatest leader of all-time," and turning your own team against you should rightfully count against that. It's not even that he just didn't succeed there, he tore the team apart.

 

[e5fdny]

True-
I just can’t be bothered by blind hatred of hall of fame great players, based on over the top silly hatred because of the team they played on.
Had MM never been traded to the Rangers and he played his entire career out west, this wouldn’t even be a topic

I think that’s the point as the “NYC” thing/part magnifies just about everything when it comes to sports.

 

[miker183]

Richter saved Mark’s ass

he was the mvp of that series

Devils could have easily been up 4 goals in Game-6 and routed them. Richter stood on his head unfortunately

You guys had 2 shots to knock the Rangers our.
Richter was great, but it was that natural hat trick that saved the Rangers.

 

[miker183]

He played seven more years after signing with Vancouver, so that's half of his time as captain and about a third of his time wearing a letter, but either way it being towards the end of his career isn't an excuse for being a locker room cancer. If we're talking about his numbers dropping off, I'm not holding that against him because of course physical skills fade with age, but that's not what we're talking about. We can dismiss the fans if you want, but his teammates had a problem with him too. Keenan wasn't going to get rid of Messier since he was the reason he was brought in, so the only way he could address it was to trade away a bunch of key guys like Linden, McLean, Odjick, etc.

I mentioned before that he was obviously a tremendous captain for the Rangers, and of course a great leader for Edmonton too, but I think there should be some scrutiny before calling someone the "greatest leader of all-time," and turning your own team against you should rightfully count against that. It's not even that he just didn't succeed there, he tore the team apart.

I understand your opinion on this. Messier had run out more than one coach and probably numerous players.

Where I disagree is where you call him a locker room cancer. Was that because players mutinied against him and didn't buy in; maybe to probably. But those were the players that were left after Mess was dealt. So, he probably had a point about their commitment level.

One thing Messier and the Devils Cup teams had in common, they knew, EXACTLY, what it took to win a championship.