OT: Should cursive still be taught in schools

[wheezer]

I had the typical old-timer reaction when I heard about the movement to stop teaching cursive.... it seemed about the same as saying, stop teaching math!

how could you stop teaching cursive?... but, as we see by many of the responses here, cursive is a dying art.... I understand.... as I am typing block letters here

there will always be a part of me that thinks not teaching it is wrong, because it was so important for us to learn as youths, so part of our culture years ago.... that is hard to shake

 

[robcac26]

I have firmly believed that cursive is a waste of a lot of time ever since I got to 6th grade and writing in cursive was no longer mandatory. People will figure out how to sign their name. Most people's signatures are indecipherable anyway.

 

[John Otterstedt]

As a third grade teacher (the grade when it is often taught), I am split. There is a part of me that is glad that I know cursive and is happy to pass this skill to the next generation, but as the person tasked with teaching it, I find it hard to set aside time to do it. If you compare the sum total of things that a teacher has to cover now with the list 20 years ago, something has to give.....
1. Twenty years ago, there was no expectation in terms of what a kid could do with a computer. Now, the kids have their own laptops, and the expectation is that they know how to type prior to the PARCC (standardized test beginning in 3rd grade), and much more. At the beginning of the year, I have to decide: Do I spend this time teaching cursive, or do I teach them how to type?
2. Many schools have a social competency program. Considering parents don't let kids "hang out" outside in the neighborhood anymore, and considering they aren't learning social competency in other settings, I can see why many districts are in support of it. Whether you are in favor of these classes or not, they are a reality in many places.
3. A second language wasn't mandated in elementary schools 20 years ago. The program looks different in different districts, but most have time set aside for instruction.
4. Reading and writing used to be one period, but now it is often separate one-hour blocks. The expectations for both reading and writing output (in terms of # of books read and # of pieces published) have increased. Math used to be 45 minutes in many places, but most new math programs require at least an hour to do well.

I could go on, but those are the main ones. It isn't that cursive isn't something that I would include if given unlimited time, but it is definitely something that is hard to implement given the current state of the curriculum.

 

[Rhuarc]

As a first grade teacher, I get to avoid this issue since cursive is introduced in second grade in our school district. However, the big debate at our grade level is whether or not to reserve time for handwriting at all. Everyone on my grade level teaches it to some extent, but some people don't reinforce it throughout the year.

To me, I see no reason why you can't focus on it in the beginning of the school year in primary grades, then slowly ween back on it as the content picks up and becomes more intense as the year goes on. Some kids handwriting (and pencil grips for that matter) are so bad due to lack of instruction it's nearly impossible to read at 6 years old.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

Why teach art? That is completely useless. How about French? Hardly anyone outside of France speaks French, why even offer it? Not going to help you professionally. History? Utter waste of time. To major in it is laughable. Social studies? Even more so. If the standard is STEM and what surrounds it, there is a lot to gut before you get to something learned in what amounts to probably 20 hours like cursive writing.

They don't focus on STEM in public school. Science education is the poorest in this country compared to nearly every other 1st world countries and even some 3rd world countries. Same is true with Math.

 

[RUtix4me]

But how will kids know the difference between these? They might drink the wrong beverage!

 

[zappaa]

I attended private school thru sixth grade.
I learned Italic writing with a fountain pen.
From 7th grade on I did nothing but play sports and skate thru school...I basically did nothing.
Got drafted, never went to college and as you guys always remind me, it shows.
I do have great penmanship though

 

[brodo]

*It's

 

[MozRU]

Complete waste of time.

While your kids are trying to learn cursive so they can write letters to their colonial 1800s friends of the past, my kids will be learning math, reading comp and coding.

People used to communicate using pictures, 10,000 years ago. Its 2016 folks. Nothing last forever. Let is go.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

The argument that "my kids will be learning math and become the next Einstein" is about as ridiculous as it gets.

My son is learning it in 3rd grade, though it isn't a priority. They also learned Roman numerals. For a modest investment of 20-30 hours, they can learn something that they'll have for a lifetime and which requires zero additional investment of time or effort.

As someone who employs recent college graduates in technical areas of finance, economics, statistics and coding, I would caution all you STEM or bust guys as it relates to emphasizing STEM to the detriment of soft communicating skills or liberal arts. As we've overcompensated to hard skills, these kids simply cannot communicate at levels that are acceptable. They lack culture or any ability to make "small talk"--which will really put a damper on their ability to transition into leadership roles in our world of consulting. The last thing we should want to emulate are the systems of Asia which produce socially inept robots--regardless of their STEM genius.

 

[SleepingGiantIsAwake]

The bigger question is should typing be taught in schools? And if so should it be all 10 fingers or just the two thumbs?

LOL.

 

[MozRU]

The argument that "my kids will be learning math and become the next Einstein" is about as ridiculous as it gets.

My son is learning it in 3rd grade, though it isn't a priority. They also learned Roman numerals. For a modest investment of 20-30 hours, they can learn something that they'll have for a lifetime and which requires zero additional investment of time or effort.

As someone who employs recent college graduates in technical areas of finance, economics, statistics and coding, I would caution all you STEM or bust guys as it relates to emphasizing STEM to the detriment of soft communicating skills or liberal arts. As we've overcompensated to hard skills, these kids simply cannot communicate at levels that are acceptable. They lack culture or any ability to make "small talk"--which will really put a damper on their ability to transition into leadership roles in our world of consulting. The last thing we should want to emulate are the systems of Asia which produce socially inept robots--regardless of their STEM genius.

Its called typing class. Wasting your time to write like a colonial has nothing to do with communication skills.

I am 38, and I pick up a pen maybe once a day.

 

[RU-AGK]

The argument that "my kids will be learning math and become the next Einstein" is about as ridiculous as it gets.

My son is learning it in 3rd grade, though it isn't a priority. They also learned Roman numerals. For a modest investment of 20-30 hours, they can learn something that they'll have for a lifetime and which requires zero additional investment of time or effort.

As someone who employs recent college graduates in technical areas of finance, economics, statistics and coding, I would caution all you STEM or bust guys as it relates to emphasizing STEM to the detriment of soft communicating skills or liberal arts. As we've overcompensated to hard skills, these kids simply cannot communicate at levels that are acceptable. They lack culture or any ability to make "small talk"--which will really put a damper on their ability to transition into leadership roles in our world of consulting. The last thing we should want to emulate are the systems of Asia which produce socially inept robots--regardless of their STEM genius.

This is a great post.

 

[LevaosLectures]

Why teach art? That is completely useless. How about French? Hardly anyone outside of France speaks French, why even offer it? Not going to help you professionally. History? Utter waste of time. To major in it is laughable. Social studies? Even more so. If the standard is STEM and what surrounds it, there is a lot to gut before you get to something learned in what amounts to probably 20 hours like cursive writing.

Are those rhetorical questions ironic? They're absurd enough that they must be. On the other hand, I can't imagine coming so close to agreeing with Caliknight. :P

 

[LevaosLectures]

I think the question of cursive is an interesting case. It's obviously still close enough to being useful that to just cut it seems drastic to those of us who grew up seeing it as very nearly essential to being an educated American. I can see arguments for both sides, honestly. My mind definitely recoils a bit from the idea that my son will never learn cursive, even though in general I agree that it gets more and more useless every day.

I think for me, it comes down to what is replacing it in the curriculum. What is their time better spent on? I don't really know enough about what is happening in early elementary education to make a definitive claim one way or the other. If we're just making room for more standardized test training, then keep the cursive.

 

[bac2therac]

The argument that "my kids will be learning math and become the next Einstein" is about as ridiculous as it gets.

My son is learning it in 3rd grade, though it isn't a priority. They also learned Roman numerals. For a modest investment of 20-30 hours, they can learn something that they'll have for a lifetime and which requires zero additional investment of time or effort.

As someone who employs recent college graduates in technical areas of finance, economics, statistics and coding, I would caution all you STEM or bust guys as it relates to emphasizing STEM to the detriment of soft communicating skills or liberal arts. As we've overcompensated to hard skills, these kids simply cannot communicate at levels that are acceptable. They lack culture or any ability to make "small talk"--which will really put a damper on their ability to transition into leadership roles in our world of consulting. The last thing we should want to emulate are the systems of Asia which produce socially inept robots--regardless of their STEM genius.

bingo

 

[LevaosLectures]

The argument that "my kids will be learning math and become the next Einstein" is about as ridiculous as it gets.

My son is learning it in 3rd grade, though it isn't a priority. They also learned Roman numerals. For a modest investment of 20-30 hours, they can learn something that they'll have for a lifetime and which requires zero additional investment of time or effort.

As someone who employs recent college graduates in technical areas of finance, economics, statistics and coding, I would caution all you STEM or bust guys as it relates to emphasizing STEM to the detriment of soft communicating skills or liberal arts. As we've overcompensated to hard skills, these kids simply cannot communicate at levels that are acceptable. They lack culture or any ability to make "small talk"--which will really put a damper on their ability to transition into leadership roles in our world of consulting. The last thing we should want to emulate are the systems of Asia which produce socially inept robots--regardless of their STEM genius.

This post makes me want to give ruhudsonfan a big hug. Beautifully put.

 

[wheezer]

I ask this, because I honestly do not know...... If a child is not taught cursive, do they have trouble reading it later on, if someone were to write them a letter, etc..... We will have an overlap in society with some still using cursive and others untrained to write it.

 

[SleepingGiantIsAwake]

The argument that "my kids will be learning math and become the next Einstein" is about as ridiculous as it gets.

My son is learning it in 3rd grade, though it isn't a priority. They also learned Roman numerals. For a modest investment of 20-30 hours, they can learn something that they'll have for a lifetime and which requires zero additional investment of time or effort.

As someone who employs recent college graduates in technical areas of finance, economics, statistics and coding, I would caution all you STEM or bust guys as it relates to emphasizing STEM to the detriment of soft communicating skills or liberal arts. As we've overcompensated to hard skills, these kids simply cannot communicate at levels that are acceptable. They lack culture or any ability to make "small talk"--which will really put a damper on their ability to transition into leadership roles in our world of consulting. The last thing we should want to emulate are the systems of Asia which produce socially inept robots--regardless of their STEM genius.

BINGO.

I've built and continue to lead large tech organizations. You are 100% spot on.

I'm pounding the message to my kids to excel at presentation and interpersonal skills. There's a huge communication void forming now, and leadership / exec positions require strong verbal communication.

 

[Riceonthebanks]

But how will kids know the difference between these? They might drink the wrong beverage!

They will just learn the hard way what piss tastes like.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Its called typing class. Wasting your time to write like a colonial has nothing to do with communication skills.

I am 38, and I pick up a pen maybe once a day.

I'm older than you and have a pen in my hand 10 hours a day. What's your point?

 

[ruhudsonfan]

BINGO.

I've built and continue to lead large tech organizations. You are 100% spot on.

I'm pounding the message to my kids to excel at presentation and interpersonal skills. There's a huge communication void forming now, and leadership / execs positions require strong verbal communication.

Exactly.

You can be the best statistician in the world. If you can't communicate your results effectively, nobody in your organization will give a crap.

 

[Crazed_RU]

The argument that "my kids will be learning math and become the next Einstein" is about as ridiculous as it gets.

My son is learning it in 3rd grade, though it isn't a priority. They also learned Roman numerals. For a modest investment of 20-30 hours, they can learn something that they'll have for a lifetime and which requires zero additional investment of time or effort.

As someone who employs recent college graduates in technical areas of finance, economics, statistics and coding, I would caution all you STEM or bust guys as it relates to emphasizing STEM to the detriment of soft communicating skills or liberal arts. As we've overcompensated to hard skills, these kids simply cannot communicate at levels that are acceptable. They lack culture or any ability to make "small talk"--which will really put a damper on their ability to transition into leadership roles in our world of consulting. The last thing we should want to emulate are the systems of Asia which produce socially inept robots--regardless of their STEM genius.

Totally agree. Our education system seems to deprioritize anything to do with arts or creative thinking after elementary school. I'm all for science and math skills but the most basic skill I see lacking in my teenagers and their friends is simple communication skills. It's to the point that I am impressed when one of my kids 15 year old friends can sit and have a rational conversation with an adult face to face. It's pretty sad that I am impressed by that.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

The argument that "my kids will be learning math and become the next Einstein" is about as ridiculous as it gets.

My son is learning it in 3rd grade, though it isn't a priority. They also learned Roman numerals. For a modest investment of 20-30 hours, they can learn something that they'll have for a lifetime and which requires zero additional investment of time or effort.

As someone who employs recent college graduates in technical areas of finance, economics, statistics and coding, I would caution all you STEM or bust guys as it relates to emphasizing STEM to the detriment of soft communicating skills or liberal arts. As we've overcompensated to hard skills, these kids simply cannot communicate at levels that are acceptable. They lack culture or any ability to make "small talk"--which will really put a damper on their ability to transition into leadership roles in our world of consulting. The last thing we should want to emulate are the systems of Asia which produce socially inept robots--regardless of their STEM genius.

At least someone gets it, plus the STEM being taught in American pubic schools don't really prepare you top get into and excel at elite colleges.

It seems like a big scam. Too many parents are delusional but I am glad to see that at least you are not.

 

[HailHailToMichigan]

Your name maybe just to keep signatures formal, but I've literally never written anything in cursive after 3rd grade besides that.

 

[zappaa]

You write notes to your kids teachers in block letters ?

 

[iReC89]

There aren't too many jobs that don't require basic STEM skills. It's not a separate thing anymore. The use of cursive is more often banned then encouraged in business communication. Kids should learn how to script at an early age, but not that kind.

 

[HailHailToMichigan]

You write notes to your kids teachers in block letters ?

If you're talking to me, I'm 23. So no.

Also it's 2016, very little communication is done via hand written letters. The use of writing in general has decreased, especially cursive. The only person that I know that ever uses cursive is my grandma on birthday cards. It's a completely useless method of writing in this day and age quite simply. I'm not saying it's not good to learn or at least know but it's hardly if ever used and only getting more rare. Just because people once wrote in hieroglyphics doesn't mean we should learn it. Times change.

 

[saran]

Biological and Psychology Benefits of Learning Cursive
Don't let your schools stop teaching cursive.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...ical-and-psychology-benefits-learning-cursive

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

If you think your kids are learning real coding in school, keep dreaming.

http://qz.com/691614/american-schools-are-teaching-our-kids-how-to-code-all-wrong/

 

[bac2therac]

What is STEM?

 

[saran]

What is STEM?

Science - Technology - Engineering - Math

 

[G- RUnit]

Shouldn't kids be learning slide rules? ;-)

 

[sherrane]

Absolute waste of time. People complain that our kids aren't learning all these important things and falling behind the rest of the world, and you want to waste even more time on cursive? I literally never use it. Signing your name? As if you use proper cursive to do that. My signature looks like a bird flew by with a pen in its beak.

I completely agree. I will also admit that I was a bit surprised that my daughter (my youngest) was never taught cursive writing in school whereas my two sons were. But there are far more important things to focus on. I haven't written anything with a pen and paper in a long time. There are only a handful of cursive fonts on a computer, so how necessary is this going to be moving forward? Typing skills are far more important than cursive skills, but even typing has a short shelf life as voice recognition tech evolves.

 

[robcac26]

I'm all for science and math skills but the most basic skill I see lacking in my teenagers and their friends is simple communication skills. It's to the point that I am impressed when one of my kids 15 year old friends can sit and have a rational conversation with an adult face to face. It's pretty sad that I am impressed by that.

We recently hired a 16-year old and his communication skills have been laughable. I've heard him greet customers with "Whatchoo want?" and the other day he began a text message conversation with me, his boss, with "My dude." This kid goes to a private school.

With that said, there are some others around his age or a couple years older that communicate clearer and more professionally than some of my customers that are in their 40s and 50s, especially in emails.

 

[imbazza2]

Science - American school system =D
Technology - American school system =D
Engineering -American school system =F
Math- American school system =F
so our great teachers are failing our children. WHY because too much time is spent on teaching cursive writing, Art classes and gym!
Algebra- Who here use this more then cursive?
saran has a great post (with many links to supporting this view) above on how the brain and cursive is just like teaching you child to throw and catch. It is abstract just a cursive S vs. a print S, as a form of molding children BRAIN to view something in another way i.e. it is a stimulus to the brain wiring both physically and mentally.
To say cursive is useless is to call physical education, art, music, all worthless
I spent my life in STEM I get paid nicely to think out side the box. Cursive writing when I learned it was like learning another language with kinesics skills wrapped in.
Sorry moving forward is not always progress
Case in point teaching Phonics became passé without it it hurt many children in developing reading comprehension. Stimulating the brain does not come from learning STEM along.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

The STEM or STEAM (A= Arts) movement has come from the fact that science has been neglected for far too long in the primary grades. The state is testing like crazy in math and language arts. As a result, teachers focus more time on these subjects and science gets pushed to the back burner. My own kids often say "we didn't do science today", or "we only did science once or twice this week"
I'm thrilled an emphasis is once again being placed on science literacy and humanity will be better served with a scientifically literate population. If cursive handwriting has to be the sacrificial lamb, so be it.

 

[retired711]

They don't teach Roman Numerals either.

Really? I learned roman numerals in elementary school back in the 1960s. How else do you keep track of Super Bowls?

 

[Upstream]

You write notes to your kids teachers in block letters ?

I write everything in block letters. Other than signing my name (which is more of a scribble anyway), I never write anything in cursive letters.

In the days of quill pens and fountain pens, you needed to write in cursive, to minimize lifting the pen. With today's pens, that limitation is not necessary. I don't know why I prefer block letters to cursive letters (maybe it has to do with being left handed), but other than when required in grade school, I have never written anything in cursive.

Nonetheless, I recognize that some people prefer to write in cursive versus block letters. There is no reason to assume that won't be as true 50 years from now as it is today. I also don't believe that keyboards and voice recognition will ever completely replace handwriting (in fact, as technology improves, I envision handwriting becoming a more important form of input for computing systems). Schools will have to continue to teach handwriting. And in teaching handwriting, they should teach both print and cursive. Even kids who end up never writing in cursive still need to learn it in order to read cursive.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Nonetheless, I recognize that some people prefer to write in cursive versus block letters. There is no reason to assume that won't be as true 50 years from now as it is today. I also don't believe that keyboards and voice recognition will ever completely replace handwriting (in fact, as technology improves, I envision handwriting becoming a more important form of input for computing systems). Schools will have to continue to teach handwriting. And in teaching handwriting, they should teach both print and cursive. Even kids who end up never writing in cursive still need to learn it in order to read cursive.

With all due respect, you suffer from failure of imagination. As technology improves, I can just as easily envision a completely digital future.

"What dream of the mind's eye will remake the world?"
-Carl Sagan