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OT: Snowstorm Friday

Here in the Fredericksburg, VA. area, Monday's storm left motorists stranded in their cars on 95 for 24 hours or more. In our area we are in our fourth day of no power, meaning no heat, lights phones or well water. House temp is 47 degrees Trees down making it like a war zone. Virginia doesn't deal with snow well. The last thing needed is more of it.

Tyler just got down to Virginia (Palmyra SE of Charlottesville) about an hour and a half ago. He said there were a ton of trees down on the way, he's got parts of 2 trees down in the backyard. Power had gone out at some point as the clocks were blinking - he has a friend up by Keswick who's still without power. There are still some power lines down: the gate he normally uses is blocked due to that.
 
What caused that level of devastation? Was there ice mixed in? It's not like snow is that uncommon for VA

From my colleague who is SE of Richmond, they had heavy rain first before it changed over to snow. So I'm betting they had significant ice buildup on the trees and power lines.
 
Tyler just got down to Virginia (Palmyra SE of Charlottesville) about an hour and a half ago. He said there were a ton of trees down on the way, he's got parts of 2 trees down in the backyard. Power had gone out at some point as the clocks were blinking - he has a friend up by Keswick who's still without power. There are still some power lines down: the gate he normally uses is blocked due to that.
Good to come home to power and not worry about it - just have to deal with the food that may or may not have spoiled.
 
Good to come home to power and not worry about it - just have to deal with the food that may or may not have spoiled.

I don't think that was an issue, he left the house at 55°.
 
Storm is really over performing forecasts down south. Went from 4-7 forecasts to now 8-12 currently in Kentucky.

does that mean it will over perform here? No clue but something to monitor
Not necessarily, as that's the initial WAA (warm air advection) low approaching from the TN valley. In a "Miller B" setup like this, the parent low kind of dies out and transfers its energy to a coastal low which pops off the VA or NC coast and that's the low which will give most of the snow to our area, except for areas well NW of 95, like the Lehigh Valley, Poconos and NWNJ/Catskills, which will likely get 1-2" from the parent low before it dies out. It's also why some models are showing areas like SE PA/Mercer/Hunterdon/Somerset/Morris possibly getting the least snow, as they're too far east for the parent low snows and too far west for significant coastal low snows, which may be confined to 95 and SE-ward.
 
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The 12Z models are all in and the clear message is that areas NW of 95 are likely to get less precip/snow than people along 95, who are likely to get less snow than folks towards the coast, partly due to less precip and partly due to where the heavier snowbands and the light subsidence zones set up (which is NW of the heavier bands). I think Steve D.'s map above captures a lot of this well, as does his discussion in the video.

Based largely on the 12Z models, one could imagine the 2" line being from about Reading to Allentown to Hopatcong to Newburgh and the 4" line going right up Route 1 from Philly to New Brunswick to Newark to Yonkers and the 6" line going from Hammonton to Long Branch and across to Hempstead on LI and 2-4"/4-6" being between those lines and <2" NW of the first line - and 6" being the max, even east of the 6" line. It's also possible these "lines" could shift 20-30 miles, i.e., the 2" line could be more like along route 1 (a few models are showing a sharper cutoff from 95 and NW of there) - I think that's the biggest bust potential on the table right now.

One other observation is that the storm looks to be a little earlier than thought before, i.e., the heaviest snow for most will be before dawn with lighter snows through 8-9 am. Accumulating snow could be over in Philly by 7 am and by 9 am in NYC, which would lessen rush hour impacts a bit, as visibility might not be the issue it would be if the heavier snow was during rush hour. Still some likely model variations coming up and the actual system will likely have some surprises, as usual.
Well, the NWS-Philly adjusted their forecast to reflect much of what I was guessing based on the 12Z models, with advisories (blue) for 2-4" for counties along and NW of 95 and warnings (pink) for4-6" for counties SE of 95, which includes all of SNJ, including Monmouth, but not Cape May, which will have rain/mixing issues; these counties have a 5" threshold for warnings, while counties N of 276/195 have a 6" criterion (including Monmouth).

Edit: found the NWS-Philly updated snowfall map on FB, but not their website yet, lol - shows the 4-6" amounts for the warned counties and 3-4" for adjacent counties, although it shows Middlesex in the 4-6" swath mostly - my guess is no warning for Middlesex to be consistent with NWS-NYC which doesn't have warnings for SI/Union and because confidence is likely lower for Middlesex vs. Monmouth.

It's also very close to what Lee Goldberg just showed, with a 4" line from about Cherry Hill to Sayreville to Queens (about 10 miles SE of my route 1 line), and 2-4" NW of that line, but 4-6" SE of that line. NWS-NYC issued warnings for 6"+ for Suffolk/eastern CT and advisories for 3-4/" for most of the rest of its counties, including NENJ and they issued their snowfall map, below.

https://www.weather.gov/phi/

7uGA22l.png


TUgpUWS.png


vJxhPIC.png


Edit: here's the full size map for NWS-Philly...

ahpq5RS.png
 
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Well, the NWS adjusted their forecast to reflect much of what I was guessing based on the 12Z models, with advisories for 2-4" for counties along and NW of 95 and warnings for4-6" for counties SE of 95, which includes all of SNJ, including Monmouth, but not Cape May, which will have rain/mixing issues; these counties have a 5" threshold for warnings, while counties N of 276/195 have a 6" criterion (including Monmouth). Haven't seen an updated snowfall map yet, but expect it to reflect these changes. It's also very close to what Lee Goldberg just showed, with a 4" line from about Cherry Hill to Sayreville to Queens (about 10 miles SE of my route 1 line), and 2-4" NW of that line, but 4-6" SE of that line.
Shouldnt you be napping right now so you can be up all night playing in the snow?
 
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⚠️❄️ Here's our latest forecast for the snow storm expected overnight into Friday morning. Much of southern NJ has been upgraded to a Winter Storm Warning (highlighted area on the map), as this is the area expected to have the most significant impact to the Friday morning commute. Most of the snow will fall between 1 AM and 7 AM. For your latest detailed local forecast, visit weather.gov/phi.
 
Stopped in the Bloomfield ShopRite this afternoon just to pick up a few things I'm out of. Place was a frikkin madhouse! A moderate at best snowfall is predicted and people lose their minds
 
Stopped in the Bloomfield ShopRite this afternoon just to pick up a few things I'm out of. Place was a frikkin madhouse! A moderate at best snowfall is predicted and people lose their minds
Did the same at Whole Foods here in Metuchen at 3 pm - not much more crowded than usual - it's hard to imagine so many people who have to stock up for maybe 1 day of provisions, lol...
 
I bought 60 rolls of TP at the Sayreville Shop-Rite. Hey - Ya never know.
We could get over 3 inches of snow this Thurs/ Fri.
 
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Here in the Fredericksburg, VA. area, Monday's storm left motorists stranded in their cars on 95 for 24 hours or more. In our area we are in our fourth day of no power, meaning no heat, lights phones or well water. House temp is 47 degrees Trees down making it like a war zone. Virginia doesn't deal with snow well. The last thing needed is more of it.
Some were cursing the wrong Gov. on Twitter? [not trying to make political, just that people can be weird blaming the Governor for a storm].
FIWYFJoXEAs8YK3
 
I bought 60 rolls of TP at the Sayreville Shop-Rite. Hey - Ya never know.
We could get over 3 inches of snow this Thurs/ Fri.
If you are using that much TP in 24 hrs you might want to see a doctor!
If you have IBS or any other issue I apologize.
 
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Storm is really over performing forecasts down south. Went from 4-7 forecasts to now 8-12 currently in Kentucky.

does that mean it will over perform here? No clue but something to monitor
Started snowing in NW NC about 3 pm. On and off. Not much accumulation, yet. Less than 1". But radar shows much developing and heading at us. Temps going to plunge and winds will be roaring.
 
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Some were cursing the wrong Gov. on Twitter? [not trying to make political, just that people can be weird blaming the Governor for a storm].
FIWYFJoXEAs8YK3

Forget about "Oops", let's make it a 180. Having her as a neighbor would reduce the property value by 25% minimum.
 
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Stopped in the Bloomfield ShopRite this afternoon just to pick up a few things I'm out of. Place was a frikkin madhouse! A moderate at best snowfall is predicted and people lose their minds

As much as places like NJ and NY think they're pros at dealing with snow, they are very much novices.
 
Did the same at Whole Foods here in Metuchen at 3 pm - not much more crowded than usual - it's hard to imagine so many people who have to stock up for maybe 1 day of provisions, lol...
There’s certain snacks I like for a storm like chips and ice cream which I don’t normally have here. I also like to bake some cookies.
I couldn’t get toilet paper at Shoprite. Some guy took the last 60rolls and I didn’t want to argue with him.
 
WW Update - down to 2-4 and 1.5-3.5 on pavement:

Brief Moderate Snow Late Tonight... This initial push of snow will favor into PA and North Jersey delaying our start times in Central NJ... Our snow will mostly arrive as the coastal low takes shape after Midnight and strengthens heading into the pre-dawn hours. Once snow overcomes the drier air in place, a moderate period is likely with 0.5"/hr rates; perhaps briefly up to 1.0"/hr toward I-95. Overall, the event will be short lived ending around daybreak Friday. Temperatures look to come up above freezing during the daytime with some blowing and drifting given the strong winds. While this will aid in the drying process, a refreeze of wet surfaces is possible Friday night.

OVERVIEW

Start Time
Friday
1:30 AM - 3:30 AM

End Time
Friday
7:00 AM - 9:00 AM

0.5 - 2.0" = 30%
2.0 - 4.0" = 50%
4.0 - 7.0" = 20%

Where are you getting the 1/2" pavement subtraction?
 
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On WW's PDF report (I only cut and paste the summary section).
show your work - there will be no difference in accumulations on pavement or unpaved surfaces at all, with temps below 32F and most of it falling while it's dark - smells like BS to me...
 
show your work - there will be no difference in accumulations on pavement or unpaved surfaces at all, with temps below 32F and most of it falling while it's dark - smells like BS to me...
Here you go Mr. Sensitive, don't shoot the messenger:

WEATHER ALERT​

Brief Moderate Snow Late Tonight... This initial push of snow will favor into PA and North Jersey delaying our start times in Central NJ... Our snow will mostly arrive as the coastal low takes shape after Midnight and strengthens heading into the pre-dawn hours. Once snow overcomes the drier air in place, a moderate period is likely with 0.5"/hr rates; perhaps briefly up to 1.0"/hr toward I-95. Overall, the event will be short lived ending around daybreak Friday. Temperatures look to come up above freezing during the daytime with some blowing and drifting given the strong winds. While this will aid in the drying process, a refreeze of wet surfaces is possible Friday night.

OVERVIEW
Start Time
End Time
Total
Snow Confidence
Friday
1:30 AM - 3:30 AM​
Friday
7:00 AM - 9:00 AM​
2.0 - 4.0"
Snow​
0.5 - 2.0"​
30%​
2.0 - 4.0"
50%
4.0 - 7.0"​
20%​


PAVEMENT DETAILS
Accumulation
1.5 - 3.5" Snow
First Inch
Fri 3:00 AM - 5:00 AM
Comments
Surfaces can quickly cover as snow gets steadier

HAZARDS
Hazard
Threat
Description
Ice​
Low
Some slick spots initially, though any ice likely from melt/refreeze after event, with temps dropping well below freezing Fri Eve.
Snowfall Rate​
Moderate
Rates gradually climb, with most 0.5"/hr or less, though potential for 1"/hr or greater in any heavy bands early Fri AM.
Blowing Snow​
Low
A fluffy snow and gusts 30-35 mph tomorrow will cause minor blowing/drifting.
 
Here's what I published. Don't know why this is so long for a 3-6" in 8 hour little storm.

Greetings,
New Jersey's second significant winter storm of the year is on our doorstep. After a mild and benign close to 2021, winter is in high gear in January. Earlier this week it was southern NJ and the coast that received all the snow, with locations the northern half of the state starved for a flake. Tonight looks fairly similar with coastal areas likely to see the most snow, although everyone will get in on the action this time.
Kj7t8JQsdgwxHAHBewhred6DcP-d_vlOVKm1vYHq45A7cuoUP_3C9hf1-Jf26Jy6_kJBib9uxrIvNBteH2SzpwZKNrZsDyCirrPNUusMkLPYpOAxUfth9lIM0tnNtdTANZRuVkjX5epvKmDHFNLxLG5FIprX1Q=s0-d-e1-ft
It's cold enough for snow just about everywhere, and temperatures will drop below freezing everywhere except perhaps Cape May Peninsula by the onset of precipitation shortly after midnight.
buTVr1A_qA-A8kNxKiGq6L8uZM16mivO1XhrXVgKbE1yGFfB30hT8EyQUEkTcygPu8zN1YhhkdgCzxgZW45QSCnXYOL7loLvBNL9o0LWtrSMtQorgPlgnNO9yk5-MgNqPY1YbejJSVETOnPKEUAo6SwwMq3pkQ=s0-d-e1-ft
Upstairs at 500mb we see a potent shortwave rounding the base of a progressive trough that's racing across the Ohio Valley and through the mid-Atlantic. You might not know what a fast, zonal flow off the Pacific Ocean looks like, but this is that look- all the wind barbs synchronized across CA, OR, WA, and British Columbia. That flow pushes the eastern trough and the embedded shortwave off the coast licketysplit. That's why this is a short duration, quick hitting little system. The zonal flow nationally is also part of the reason that this will be mostly snow for everyone, otherwise some warmer air could've potentially worked in off the ocean and tainted snowfall totals.
bw_HRwmqProZMbxtb0HcML2DLH6KnW2786WT1TZi_jj2zw8ud0pXlYebnCWHg3BqZpLQun7a1HnHLPPP0qjLsiYR8-VumMOFyT7l5Eb84DRJzkLRguBdh1ZbwAUuzmbBIGdiMTHBpPmTwhnwwuWpAihRjq0TpQ=s0-d-e1-ft
Down at the surface, here's the NAM model depiction between midnight and 9am Friday morning. You might notice that the surface low remains strung out over the Atlantic, and the red "L" seems to jump around a bit. The model might be struggling to place the exact low center, or it could be bouncing around with the various areas of thunderstorms which would have local pressure falls that the model is "seeing." I don't think it matters much for the forecast really, but I wanted to show this as an example of the banded nature to the snowfall. It looks like there will be a couple stronger bands, particularly from Monmouth through Atlantic Counties where snow could fall close to 2"/hr in the pre-dawn hours. Forget about the morning commute if that happens. Further west you could see snowfall totals decreased, as a local spot that gets extra from a band robs snow from the area outside the band. Unfortunately for me in Hunterdon County, I might be the one to get skunked here.

Look for 3-6" statewide, except a little less in Cape May and perhaps across the Skylands in the northwest. Heaviest snow totals will likely be in Monmouth and Ocean Counties due to proximity to heavier banding, and also snow will linger here longer into the morning. I could see some 7 or 8 inch totals for the Parkway corridor here. Things wind down for everyone between 7am and 10am. The rest of the day will be chilly and pretty.

Next week, it looks like the cold, rather than snow, could be the weather headline.
Warm Regards,
John
 
Here's what I published. Don't know why this is so long for a 3-6" in 8 hour little storm.

Greetings,
New Jersey's second significant winter storm of the year is on our doorstep. After a mild and benign close to 2021, winter is in high gear in January. Earlier this week it was southern NJ and the coast that received all the snow, with locations the northern half of the state starved for a flake. Tonight looks fairly similar with coastal areas likely to see the most snow, although everyone will get in on the action this time.
Kj7t8JQsdgwxHAHBewhred6DcP-d_vlOVKm1vYHq45A7cuoUP_3C9hf1-Jf26Jy6_kJBib9uxrIvNBteH2SzpwZKNrZsDyCirrPNUusMkLPYpOAxUfth9lIM0tnNtdTANZRuVkjX5epvKmDHFNLxLG5FIprX1Q=s0-d-e1-ft
It's cold enough for snow just about everywhere, and temperatures will drop below freezing everywhere except perhaps Cape May Peninsula by the onset of precipitation shortly after midnight.
buTVr1A_qA-A8kNxKiGq6L8uZM16mivO1XhrXVgKbE1yGFfB30hT8EyQUEkTcygPu8zN1YhhkdgCzxgZW45QSCnXYOL7loLvBNL9o0LWtrSMtQorgPlgnNO9yk5-MgNqPY1YbejJSVETOnPKEUAo6SwwMq3pkQ=s0-d-e1-ft
Upstairs at 500mb we see a potent shortwave rounding the base of a progressive trough that's racing across the Ohio Valley and through the mid-Atlantic. You might not know what a fast, zonal flow off the Pacific Ocean looks like, but this is that look- all the wind barbs synchronized across CA, OR, WA, and British Columbia. That flow pushes the eastern trough and the embedded shortwave off the coast licketysplit. That's why this is a short duration, quick hitting little system. The zonal flow nationally is also part of the reason that this will be mostly snow for everyone, otherwise some warmer air could've potentially worked in off the ocean and tainted snowfall totals.
bw_HRwmqProZMbxtb0HcML2DLH6KnW2786WT1TZi_jj2zw8ud0pXlYebnCWHg3BqZpLQun7a1HnHLPPP0qjLsiYR8-VumMOFyT7l5Eb84DRJzkLRguBdh1ZbwAUuzmbBIGdiMTHBpPmTwhnwwuWpAihRjq0TpQ=s0-d-e1-ft
Down at the surface, here's the NAM model depiction between midnight and 9am Friday morning. You might notice that the surface low remains strung out over the Atlantic, and the red "L" seems to jump around a bit. The model might be struggling to place the exact low center, or it could be bouncing around with the various areas of thunderstorms which would have local pressure falls that the model is "seeing." I don't think it matters much for the forecast really, but I wanted to show this as an example of the banded nature to the snowfall. It looks like there will be a couple stronger bands, particularly from Monmouth through Atlantic Counties where snow could fall close to 2"/hr in the pre-dawn hours. Forget about the morning commute if that happens. Further west you could see snowfall totals decreased, as a local spot that gets extra from a band robs snow from the area outside the band. Unfortunately for me in Hunterdon County, I might be the one to get skunked here.

Look for 3-6" statewide, except a little less in Cape May and perhaps across the Skylands in the northwest. Heaviest snow totals will likely be in Monmouth and Ocean Counties due to proximity to heavier banding, and also snow will linger here longer into the morning. I could see some 7 or 8 inch totals for the Parkway corridor here. Things wind down for everyone between 7am and 10am. The rest of the day will be chilly and pretty.

Next week, it looks like the cold, rather than snow, could be the weather headline.
Warm Regards,
John

Great post! Do you post on any of the weather boards? I'm sure your expertise would be welcome there and it's fairly well moderated, so no trolling is allowed (arguing yes, trolling no) and lots of very good pros post there. Agree that areas NW of 95 (especially from maybe Upper Bucks through Hunterdon/Morris) could be at a minimum (posted about that earlier), as they're not far enough west for the parent low's WAA snows and not far enough east for the significant coastal low's snows, especially given subsidence-robbing.
 
Great post! Do you post on any of the weather boards? I'm sure your expertise would be welcome there and it's fairly well moderated, so no trolling is allowed (arguing yes, trolling no) and lots of very good pros post there. Agree that areas NW of 95 (especially from maybe Upper Bucks through Hunterdon/Morris) could be at a minimum (posted about that earlier), as they're not far enough west for the parent low's WAA snows and not far enough east for the significant coastal low's snows, especially given subsidence-robbing.
As someone residing in the Upper Bucks/Lower Hunterdon area, this is music to my ears. Make it so.
 
Great post! Do you post on any of the weather boards? I'm sure your expertise would be welcome there and it's fairly well moderated, so no trolling is allowed (arguing yes, trolling no) and lots of very good pros post there. Agree that areas NW of 95 (especially from maybe Upper Bucks through Hunterdon/Morris) could be at a minimum (posted about that earlier), as they're not far enough west for the parent low's WAA snows and not far enough east for the significant coastal low's snows, especially given subsidence-robbing.
Nah. I used to but no time. I wouldn't have anything to add anyway if HM and Wes Junker are still holding court. Also I looked around last year and it seems like theres a half dozen boards instead of one that everyone is at. Easternuswx was a good time.
 
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Also @RU848789 I saw when I used to be on Eastern too many instances where that environment lends itself to groupthink. I remember thinking how everyone bought into a busted event, and then in hindsight there were obvious flags that everyone ignored. Also noone ever wanted to dissect and learn from busts. That frustrated me so I tapped out.
 
Nah. I used to but no time. I wouldn't have anything to add anyway if HM and Wes Junker are still holding court. Also I looked around last year and it seems like theres a half dozen boards instead of one that everyone is at. Easternuswx was a good time.

Also @RU848789 I saw when I used to be on Eastern too many instances where that environment lends itself to groupthink. I remember thinking how everyone bought into a busted event, and then in hindsight there were obvious flags that everyone ignored. Also noone ever wanted to dissect and learn from busts. That frustrated me so I tapped out.
Well HM rarely posts anymore - he's mostly a Twitter guy now, posting about teleconnections and wave cycles and such. He's actually married to my best friend's little sister (not that little, I guess - they just had a baby, lol) and I've met him a few times and he's incredibly quiet, but you can tell how smart he is too (we don't talk much weather at social events - his wife is an RU met, too).

And I haven't seen Wes post in years on either 33andrain or AmericanWx - I've been on the boards since before EasternWx even - which I agree was the best board. Used to be active in the grandfather of all internet weather "boards" in the mid/late 90s - the old NEUS weather alt site that was completely unmoderated and was a wild, crazy place with people threatening each other and other nutty things.

I get what you say about groupthink, though, as the "no snow" voices tend to get drowned out, mostly because 95+% of posters there love snow, wihch I get - it's part of why DT doesn't post any more - that and he's a cantankerous soul who doesn't suffer fools gladly, lol, and gets in famous rows with many folks. But I think there are enough skeptics who just want to be right that are on both boards and make it a useful and fun place.
 
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