17 takes another victim. This time it may be one of the biggest. Spieth will look back on that double bogey earlier and wonder what could have been.
OT: The Open and Jordan Spieth's Grand Slam Run
- Thread starter knightfan7
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Seems like Jordan had the wrong yardage on 18. North said it was 102 yards, I heard Jordan and Greller discussing 98. And Spieth hits it pin high and spins it back into the valley of sin. Perhaps 4 more yards back and he stays on the green close to the hole.
Oh well, he was right there and another remarkable effort at a major. Who knows how many majors spieth can win if he keeps this up.
Oh well, he was right there and another remarkable effort at a major. Who knows how many majors spieth can win if he keeps this up.
He just said he was between clubs. You're right about putting it past the pin. What a difference a few feet makes.
If it was 1 hole I'd agree but with a 4 hole playoff not so much. Besides people would want to hear his thoughts as soon after the round as possible.
Well, Leishman is done after 3 of the 4 holes, at +2. Down to Johnson at -1 and Oosthuizen at E and in better position off the tee at 18.
Congrats to Zach Johnson on a great win. Doesn't hit it long or make the crazy shots. Just plays the game point to point and seldom makes the big mistake.
Anyone notice who stuck around and was there right off 18 green to congratulate Johnson? Jordan Spieth.
Anyone notice who stuck around and was there right off 18 green to congratulate Johnson? Jordan Spieth.
Ultimately, Spieth paid for his decision to not go play the Scottish Open at Gullane to honor his commitment to John Deere, as admirable as that was.
The ball rolls completely differently on the greens over there and when you add in the wind and the size of the greens, another week of prep and practice surely would have cut down on the six three putts and one four putt, that ultimately cost him the third leg. So close and bet he can't wait to get back onto the carpeting over here.
Hats off to Zach. What a tough tournament to win this year with that leaderboard and all the moves being made and the difficulties of that back nine, in the wind.
The ball rolls completely differently on the greens over there and when you add in the wind and the size of the greens, another week of prep and practice surely would have cut down on the six three putts and one four putt, that ultimately cost him the third leg. So close and bet he can't wait to get back onto the carpeting over here.
Hats off to Zach. What a tough tournament to win this year with that leaderboard and all the moves being made and the difficulties of that back nine, in the wind.
Can't say I agree, but the honest truth is we really don't know if that was the reason for missing some key putts.
Oosty has played Saint andrews plenty of times, they have a regular European tour there besides the open, and he won here in 20010. He missed a short putt coming down the stretch as well.
Spieth holed plenty of putts this week. The one on 16 was ridiculous, I think it was only the 2nd birdie there all day. Yes, what he did on 8 was uncharacteristic, but everybody misses putts.
And Zach Johnson also played last week at John Deere, a shot out of the playoff, and he won the open championship, so playing the week before at the scottish open may be advantageous, but it doesn't mean everything.
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I agree. Speith was tied for the lead today so he had a great feel for the course. Rickie Fowler played and won the Scottish Open and played awfully today.
I played both courses in back to back days in April and found the greens remarkably similar in the firmness, mix of grass, roll and speed. St Andrews has a handful of greens that are much larger, so for the 90 footers, it wouldn't have helped.
You guys don't think the best putter in golf improves the glaring stat of six three putts and a four putt, with an extra week putting on and in scottish turf and wind? I sure do.
Plus doesn't anyone think the 40 mph winds and rain today had an effect. His worse hole that was a 4 putt wasn't putting issue. It was because he hit such a bad shot that he landed on the wrong green.
He was tied for 1st. Hit two bad second shots on 17 and 18. Had nothing to do with winning....I'll repeat winning the John Deere.
Agree. A guy who finishes 1 shot out of a playoff, was tied for the lead at some points, played through wind and rain, and makes that insane putt at 16 couldn't have been putting that bad.
Jordan doesn't agree with you:
"My speed control was really what cost me this week," he continued, "the five three-putts the second round, and then just my speed control in general wasn't great."
The WSJ wrote an article on him July 14th talking about what a great lag putter he is and how it's his secret weapon:
"on average this year, when he misses his first putt, the ball comes to rest just 23 inches from the hole. That is tied for the best mark on the PGA Tour.
From any distance on the green, Spieth can miss with a degree of precision that gives him the best odds of two-putting the hole."
So, you have the player saying it cost him the tournament and me suggesting an extra week on Scottish greens would have helped him find the feel he was missing. Not sure why that logic doesn't resonate with you two, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
No he doesn't! Playing in the Scottish Open doesn't help his putting here. Entirely different places and even more much different greens.
You can blame the setup like fast greens on a course that needs to have slower greens.
Tom Watson never played in the Scottish Open. As there were was none back in his day. Phil is the only golfer to win both. And he needed it because he hated links courses.
Wrong and wrong.
Both greens are predominantly fescue with a host of other grasses (Bent, Poa annua, rye and other native grasses) mixed in. As I said, I was just at both courses in April, they putt exactly the same.
As for Watson, he made it a point, in the feature piece ESPN did on him on Thursday, to talk about how he liked to come over a week early and play other links courses leading up to the Open. Told a nice story about being at Carnoustie I believe, and after having played a round in the morning in nice weather, it turned as they had a number of drinks during lunch and Watson convinced his buddy to go out in the squall. He identified it as the moment he fell in love with links golf.
Lets see if Spieth is at the Deere next year. My bet is he skips it and goes over there to work out the feel issue he had this week that cost him the third leg of the grand slam.
Chase, I admire your tenacity, but your premise is that "Going to John Deere cost Spieth the Open championship"
You have given us no evidence to support this. And you won't address any of these points.
1. No where in Spieth's quote does he say he lost because of not having enough practice. He said his speed control cost him. Speed control could have still been in issue with a few more days of practice. Yes, he could have holed more putts if his speed control was better. Every golfer could say this. Your speed improves when your putts are not 100 ft., so errant shots cost you too.
2. He made plenty of birdies this week so his speed control was fine on those. Especially on 16 on monday.
3. If he won, we would not be having this discussion. If he hits his chip on 17 closer and makes a putt, he would have been in the playoff. That putt had no speed control issues.
4. Had he hit a better a drive on 18 and had 75 yards, a distance he said was in his "wheel house" and if he made birdie there and parred 17, he would have won and 17 and 18 were not because of speed issues.
5. European tour members play St. Andrews all the time, how come they couldn't putt better? How come oosty missed some short putts with a previous win there and lots of experience. Because nobody makes every putt.
6. How did Zach Johnson win the tournament with no practice and was standing next to Jordan Spieth at the John Deere? Was there any problems with the putt he holed on 18, with less practice? And the putts he holed in the playoff?
We all get you may play better with more practice on a course. But it is not necessarily true. Why can't you concede this?
You have given us no evidence to support this. And you won't address any of these points.
1. No where in Spieth's quote does he say he lost because of not having enough practice. He said his speed control cost him. Speed control could have still been in issue with a few more days of practice. Yes, he could have holed more putts if his speed control was better. Every golfer could say this. Your speed improves when your putts are not 100 ft., so errant shots cost you too.
2. He made plenty of birdies this week so his speed control was fine on those. Especially on 16 on monday.
3. If he won, we would not be having this discussion. If he hits his chip on 17 closer and makes a putt, he would have been in the playoff. That putt had no speed control issues.
4. Had he hit a better a drive on 18 and had 75 yards, a distance he said was in his "wheel house" and if he made birdie there and parred 17, he would have won and 17 and 18 were not because of speed issues.
5. European tour members play St. Andrews all the time, how come they couldn't putt better? How come oosty missed some short putts with a previous win there and lots of experience. Because nobody makes every putt.
6. How did Zach Johnson win the tournament with no practice and was standing next to Jordan Spieth at the John Deere? Was there any problems with the putt he holed on 18, with less practice? And the putts he holed in the playoff?
We all get you may play better with more practice on a course. But it is not necessarily true. Why can't you concede this?
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One of the benefits of playing Quad Cities for Spieth was that he didn’t have to deal with the international press beating the Grand Slam drum the week before the tournament. It was hard enough dealing with all that noise during the week of The Open.
Jordan’s putting woes were really happening during the extended second round and especially on Saturday with the wind gusts, cold and the start and stop. It was an unlucky draw. He took 31 putts that day, when most of the leaders played the entire round on Friday and averaged about 27-28 putts. It was difficult to put his approach shots in a spot to yield one or two putts because of the weather. That was the difference, not the grass. Remember, these guys play all year on different surfaces – bent, Bermuda, poa, and at Chambers, a combo of all of them. So, I don’t think that was the issue.
He’s a class act. Hoped he would have won, but he’ll win a bunch before he turns 40.
Jordan’s putting woes were really happening during the extended second round and especially on Saturday with the wind gusts, cold and the start and stop. It was an unlucky draw. He took 31 putts that day, when most of the leaders played the entire round on Friday and averaged about 27-28 putts. It was difficult to put his approach shots in a spot to yield one or two putts because of the weather. That was the difference, not the grass. Remember, these guys play all year on different surfaces – bent, Bermuda, poa, and at Chambers, a combo of all of them. So, I don’t think that was the issue.
He’s a class act. Hoped he would have won, but he’ll win a bunch before he turns 40.
Of course JS going over earlier would have helped. Ridiculous to think otherwise and he even said so. He won't make this mistake again.
"I think coming over earlier certainly could have helped," said Spieth, who has four victories this year.
http://espn.go.com/golf/theopen15/story/_/id/13259271/2015-open-jordan-spieth-admits-more-prep-ideal
"I think coming over earlier certainly could have helped," said Spieth, who has four victories this year.
http://espn.go.com/golf/theopen15/story/_/id/13259271/2015-open-jordan-spieth-admits-more-prep-ideal
THe operative word is "could" have. Spieth also said the bad drive on 18 cost him. Instead of 75 yards, which he said was in his" Wheelhouse" he was left with an awkward yardage in between clubs. If he makes birdie there, we are not having this conversation.
Some errant shots, some long putts, weather, they all cost him, just like everybody else its called golf.
I have already conceded more practice may have helped, but not necessarily so, and I asked some questions nobody seems to want to address.
1. Why did Oosty miss some short putts down the stretch, he has plenty of experience at St. Andrews?
2. Rickie Fowler, came early, won the scottish open, and didn't putt well at St. Andrews. Extra practice didn't help him.
3. Zach Johnson did not come over early, played with Spieth at the John Deere. How was he able to win without the extra practice? How was that?
4. If spieth putted so badly, how did he make the ridiculous putt on 16, and make enough putts to be one shot out of the playoff.
When someone loses attempting to win their third major in a row, there has to be a reason. What else can spieth say?
There is plenty of proof that experience on the course, and extra time putting does not always equate to best performance. Its not ridiculous either.
1) not as good as JS
2) see above
3) the course sets up very well for game
4) I didn't say he putted badly
Anyone who plays golf knows that the more familiarity you have with a course means you are likely to play it better. This discussion is silly, especially in light of what Speith said above.
2) see above
3) the course sets up very well for game
4) I didn't say he putted badly
Anyone who plays golf knows that the more familiarity you have with a course means you are likely to play it better. This discussion is silly, especially in light of what Speith said above.
A little early for that proclamation. Let's see how he holds up for a few years before anointing him. If he has 6 or more majors by 26 (i.e., one per year), I think you'll be right and he'll threaten Jack. If he only wins 1-2 more by then, I'd say the jury is out. Barring injury, if I had to guess right now, I'd guess he'd end up in the 12-16 majors range, i.e., in Tiger's territory, but not quite Jack's. Will certainly be fun to watch.
Sorry, the original premise was that Spieth lost because of speed control he didn't have because he didn't come over early.
Nobody is saying that more experience with a course couldn't be helpful, we are saying practicing for an extra few days does not mean you will win the open championship nor does it mean you can't win without it. That was the premise we were debating.
Its not ridiculous or silly either, and Zach Johnson proves it.
There is no magic preparation formula to win majors, some go early, some don't. If more putting practice was a sure fire way to win, nobody would ever play the week before.
You win majors because you are good, have the guts to hit shots under pressure, and some luck goes your way. THis is way more important than an extra few days putting practice, again, Zach Johnson proved it, but you dismiss it so easily.
Jordan spieth will not win every tournament he enters, are we going to say not going early and missing a few days of putting practice is the reason he lost? Please.
Since majors have been played, any golfer who has finished one shot back of the leader(s) thinks back to one or two or three shots that could have made the difference. If not for DJ 3-putting 18 at Chambers Bay, Spieth may not have even been in the position to continue the grand slam run. Second guessing your decisions usually isn't worth it. We're talking millimeters of difference here, and every player can make arguments as to what could have saved them a few shots. Not worth the debate.
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