OT: USA men's soccer losing to Guatamala
- Thread starter UMRU
- Start date
No heart. The teams that have went down there and won had a lot less talent than this team. But they had heart. This comes from someone who would know. These guys are babies.
At least our Olympic qualifying team came out of Colombia with a 1 1 draw. Big result to help us get to Rio! The second match is Tuesday, I believe.
USA was something like 15-0-5 against Guatamala until this debical. Keeper did have the game of his life, but still this is terrible.
Can you expand on your "someone who would know" comment.
Awful game but we've got 2 home games (St. Vincent/Guatemala) and a road game @ Trinidad. Should move through to the Hex which is all that matters right now other than a lot of guys getting to learn to play with one another.
By my reckoning, we will need all nine remaining points to assure passage to the next round. Seven will probably do it but maybe not, there could be a three way tie at eleven points. Anything less than seven points in the next three and it is probably over.
Actually, it's Guatemala and Trinidad at home, and St. Vincent on the road, which IMO is significantly more favorable.
Well 9 points and there is ZERO question that we get through (Guatemala would end up with 12...). 7 and it's all up in the air but you likely make it through. I'd imagine we try to load up on goals against St. Vincent.
After tonite the US is in 2nd place with 7 points, Guatemala is 3rd with 6. Trinidad has 10. US has Trinidad(H) and St Vincent(A) left.
How many teams from each group move on to the finals?
Totally forgot about the match because of a softball game and a fantasy draft. SWEET to see the 4-0 redemption.
Assuming we beat St Vincent, we advance to the hex unless Guatemala beats Trinidad on the road and we do not beat them at home - or maybe on some crazy goal differential if they draw at Trinidad and we lose at home to Trinidad. Considering we are currently +7 in GD and Guatemala is +1, that doesn't seem likely.
On the down side, the U-23 squad lost 2-1 at home to Colombia and will not be in the Olympics in Rio.
Assuming we beat St Vincent, we advance to the hex unless Guatemala beats Trinidad on the road and we do not beat them at home - or maybe on some crazy goal differential if they draw at Trinidad and we lose at home to Trinidad. Considering we are currently +7 in GD and Guatemala is +1, that doesn't seem likely.
On the down side, the U-23 squad lost 2-1 at home to Colombia and will not be in the Olympics in Rio.
Mexico in the process of clinching their spot. Costa Rica is almost there. Neither is a surprise. Other than the US, to me the biggest question is can Canada advance.
Can you explain the Okympic stuff? Is it not our national team who would qualify? Not a basketball dream team type scenario? How do they decide u23? Do all countries do this?
Men's Olympic qualifiers is strictly U23. As the name implies, all players must be under age 23 as of a certain cutoff date (not sure what that date is, but I think must be born after 1/1/1993). In the actual Olympics, each team is allowed three overage players. This was an accommodation FIFA reached with the IOC. FIFA would prefer the tournament be strictly U23, so it would not be perceived equal to the FIFA World Cup. The IOC wants some starpower, so they compromised.
The above pertains only to the men's tournament. No such restriction for the women's tournament.
The above pertains only to the men's tournament. No such restriction for the women's tournament.
USA played extremely well. Before the game, I was confident they would win by 4 goals or so. They actually had a 5th goal disallowed on a bad call. It was a completely reversal of the first half from the first game.
I realize I'm in the minority, but I just don't believe people give the opposition much credit in CONCACAF -- away games are not gimmees. The teams we face might be much weaker than us, but it's a bit of everything from the environment (lack of good sleep in the hotel beforehand) to the refs (let's face it, every nation hates us in the region) to poor fields, dangerous regions, etc. Klinsmann thought these games were simple UNTIL he experienced them firsthand. I think he's one won away game in Central America. If more European coaches came to this region, they would likely change their tune about the games as well.
Even though the region has been playing better (witness the teams in the last two World Cups), everyone simply expects the US to win all of the games. That attitude needs to change from the players, the media, and the fans. We want to win, but we're not going to walk in and beat teams in CONCACAF on their own field. I'm not using the refs as an excuse, but I saw about 15 plays yesterday in which the Guatamala player leaned back into a US player and fell down. In the first game, Guatamala got those calls nearly every time. Yesterday, they got very few. Things like that happen every single time we're playing on the road -- generally facing a refereeing crew from a nation that utterly hates America. Those calls add up. They offer the weaker team the chance for the odd goal on a set piece, take away from the flow of the game, and waste time.
And if you fall behind, early like the US did, you can't risk going a man down because of a bad call or an abundance of calls against a player.
There's no excuse for the loss the other day though. The US played horrible in the first half and deserved to be behind; however, they could EASILY have won the game if they hadn't shot directly at the keeper 4 or 5 times. Anybody reporting on that game and simply saying the US played bad needs to look at the chances we blew. The game should have turned the US way in the second, which is why I was totally confident we were going to win easily in Columbus.
CONCACAF is much tougher than it used to be and the reason is MLS. Nations other than the US and Mexico finally have a reachable opportunity for a competitive landing spot for their players to develop.
I didn't understand why that goal was disallowed. Nor do I understand what constitutes "offsides".
If the attacking player is beyond the 2nd to last defender (including the goalie) when the ball is played he is in an offside position. This applies to any part of the body the player can legally score with.
From Wikipedia (because it's the best explanation I've seen) ...
"A player is in an offside position if any of their body parts with which they can touch the ball during any other part of the play is in the opponents' half of the pitch and closer to the opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second-to-last opponent (usually, but not necessarily always, the last defensive player in front of the goalkeeper). Being in an offside position is not an offense in itself; at the moment the ball touches, or is played by, the player's team, the player must also be "actively involved in the play" in the opinion of the referee, in order for an offense to occur."
"A player is in an offside position if any of their body parts with which they can touch the ball during any other part of the play is in the opponents' half of the pitch and closer to the opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second-to-last opponent (usually, but not necessarily always, the last defensive player in front of the goalkeeper). Being in an offside position is not an offense in itself; at the moment the ball touches, or is played by, the player's team, the player must also be "actively involved in the play" in the opinion of the referee, in order for an offense to occur."
Thanks fellas. I was trying to explain it to my wife last night and didn't do very well.
BTW, that rule blows.
The offside rule was implemented to INCREASE offensive play and scoring, and generally make the game more skillful and interesting, by incenting teams to play a higher defensive line. Prior to the offside rule, teams would just blast the ball from one end of the field to another. To counter that, defenses would pack in to protect their goal, leading to very unattractive soccer.
Lighty, I agree with everything except the reason why it's so tough to win in CONCACAF on the road. I don't think it's anti-US bias. It's just as tough for Costa Rica to win in Guatemala as it is for the US to win there. Those soccer-mad nations are equal opportunity haters. In fact their fiercest venom is generally directed at Mexico, as they are still perceived to be the big dog in the region.
I would add that your statement pretty much only applies to the Central American countries. The atmosphere isn't quite as intense in the Caribbean countries, where the fans are passionate, but not batshit crazy.
Exactly. In a perfect world, there would be no offside rule and teams would still play to score. In most (all?) of the club championship tourneys, like UEFA, whoever has more away goals in a home-and-home series is the first tie-breaker - this was done to encourage teams to try to score goals instead of just packing in the defense.
Well, I admit to knowing little about this game..... that I never played. But it would seem to me that allowing a player to break in alone on the goalkeeper after he's received a long pass from a teammate or as he's awaiting a long pass from a teammate would be the equivalent of "the bomb" in American football or basket hanging in basketball. I would think it would open up the game more.
Well, you could say this is just more of a "hope he breaks free" vs "he's already blown by him" situation. The offsides is only that moment when the ball leaves the passers foot and goes towards the receiving player, so the offensive player can still blow past the defender as his teammate is passing the ball downfield (just so he doesnt pass that imaginary line before it's kicked to him) it just has to be timed a little more tightly.
Before that "bomb" in football is thrown, the wide receiver is not allowed to line up offsides either. The difference being that football is separate, individual plays and offsides is based on the timing of the snap, whereas in soccer where play is constantly moving, and offsides is based on the timing of the pass.
A few thoughts:
- so much for this team lacking "heart" and whatnot; bottom line is they "shit-the-bed" the other night BUT there is still a lot of room for improvement and, if the younger guys aren't ready now, remember, we're still 2 years off from The World Cup.
- great job by JK with the lineup and alignment last night
- with 2 games left I fully expect JK to stick with the rotation of Howard and Guzan at keeper but he's gotta pick 1, and stick with him, prior to The Hex (IMHO)
- I fear for the future. Nothing wrong with the U-23 side losing to Columbia in the home-and-home, however, how the hell are we still losing to Honduras and not getting the 2nd auto-qualifying spot? The U-20 team got absolutely hammered in the 2013 WC (0-2-1) and the U17 got hammered in the 2015 WC (0-2-1). So much for "development." Yikes.
- so much for this team lacking "heart" and whatnot; bottom line is they "shit-the-bed" the other night BUT there is still a lot of room for improvement and, if the younger guys aren't ready now, remember, we're still 2 years off from The World Cup.
- great job by JK with the lineup and alignment last night
- with 2 games left I fully expect JK to stick with the rotation of Howard and Guzan at keeper but he's gotta pick 1, and stick with him, prior to The Hex (IMHO)
- I fear for the future. Nothing wrong with the U-23 side losing to Columbia in the home-and-home, however, how the hell are we still losing to Honduras and not getting the 2nd auto-qualifying spot? The U-20 team got absolutely hammered in the 2013 WC (0-2-1) and the U17 got hammered in the 2015 WC (0-2-1). So much for "development." Yikes.
JK needs to accept that this team plays so much better with Beckerman in the lineup. It allows Bradley a lot more freedom. Also, let's hope that Brooks can finally get healthy. Gonzales shouldn't be playing for this team.
Love Beckerman & Bradley, but if we're still relying on those to be the pivot of our team in the next WC, we'll be in a world of hurt. Bradley should be more than serviceable in a few years, but JK needs to find another partner for him, or even get Bradley to take the destroyer/DM role while getting someone else to drive the team forward. Qualification could be a bit dicey while JK is trying to figure out who his WC starting XI is.
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