Playcalling thoughts

[read option]

Some thoughts on last night's playcalling and what I believe our playcalling should look like moving forward. I'll preface by mentioning that I've never played or coached football at any level.

1) 1st Down:
a) We should run on 1st down 90% of the time or more. We are a run first team who needs to stay on schedule. 2nd & 10 is not where we want to be because it forces us to pass from a disadvantageous position.
b) We should be going hurry up on every 1st down other than on a change of possession. It will allow us to vary tempo, potentially prevents our opponent from substituting, and helps us catch the opponent off guard especially if we're running on 1st down 90+% of the time.

2) 2nd Down:
a) This is where we can look to pass. Anywhere between 2nd & 7 to 2nd & 4 are great spots for a controlled passing game. Screens, slants, quick outs/hitches, TE, playaction.
b) This is also the spot where on 2nd & 3 or less from anywhere between our own ~40 and the opponent's ~30, we can look to go playaction and for the big play.
c) When in doubt, 2nd & 3 or less should be an easy spot for us to move the chains with the run or at minimum set ourselves up for two more downs where we need 3 yds. or less.

3rd Down:
a) If we use the 1st down and 2nd down strategy I've mentioned, we should be in good shape to move the chains in short yardage with runs.
b) 3rd & 4-7/8 is a running down for us. We have the ability to get the 1st or set ourselves up for short yardage on 4th.
c) All 3rd & 1's should be a QB sneak/tush push. Don't make this situation harder than it needs to be.

**As much as I'd like to take shots downfield more frequently, I'd much prefer to stay on schedule, limit turnovers, and keep our QB upright. I have tons of faith in our OL with run blocking, but pass blocking is not where we're strongest.

 

[newell138]

I just emailed this to Schiano, he said thanks!

 

[RUbacker]

Some thoughts on last night's playcalling and what I believe our playcalling should look like moving forward. I'll preface by mentioning that I've never played or coached football at any level.

1) 1st Down:
a) We should run on 1st down 90% of the time or more. We are a run first team who needs to stay on schedule. 2nd & 10 is not where we want to be because it forces us to pass from a disadvantageous position.
b) We should be going hurry up on every 1st down other than on a change of possession. It will allow us to vary tempo, potentially prevents our opponent from substituting, and helps us catch the opponent off guard especially if we're running on 1st down 90+% of the time.

2) 2nd Down:
a) This is where we can look to pass. Anywhere between 2nd & 7 to 2nd & 4 are great spots for a controlled passing game. Screens, slants, quick outs/hitches, TE, playaction.
b) This is also the spot where on 2nd & 3 or less from anywhere between our own ~40 and the opponent's ~30, we can look to go playaction and for the big play.
c) When in doubt, 2nd & 3 or less should be an easy spot for us to move the chains with the run or at minimum set ourselves up for two more downs where we need 3 yds. or less.

3rd Down:
a) If we use the 1st down and 2nd down strategy I've mentioned, we should be in good shape to move the chains in short yardage with runs.
b) 3rd & 4-7/8 is a running down for us. We have the ability to get the 1st or set ourselves up for short yardage on 4th.
c) All 3rd & 1's should be a QB sneak/tush push. Don't make this situation harder than it needs to be.

**As much as I'd like to take shots downfield more frequently, I'd much prefer to stay on schedule, limit turnovers, and keep our QB upright. I have tons of faith in our OL with run blocking, but pass blocking is not where we're strongest.

yeah kirk should be looking over his shoulder as his job is in jeopardy now that you have figured everything out.

 

[read option]

yeah kirk should be looking over his shoulder as his job is in jeopardy now that you have figured everything out.

Thanks. Looking forward to the opportunity!

 

[Knight Shift]

Thanks. Looking forward to the opportunity!

Are you a fan of the read option?

Good thread. Guy starts a football thread and gets stomped on and mocked.

 

[winfield102]

Not a big fan of the tush push.

3rd and 4 to 7 is a passing down imo, unless we plan on going for it on 4th.

I really like what I saw from AK but we need more chunk plays against legit teams. Good defensive plays, missed blocks, drops and missed passes will happen to kill drives.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Some thoughts on last night's playcalling and what I believe our playcalling should look like moving forward. I'll preface by mentioning that I've never played or coached football at any level.

1) 1st Down:
a) We should run on 1st down 90% of the time or more. We are a run first team who needs to stay on schedule. 2nd & 10 is not where we want to be because it forces us to pass from a disadvantageous position.
b) We should be going hurry up on every 1st down other than on a change of possession. It will allow us to vary tempo, potentially prevents our opponent from substituting, and helps us catch the opponent off guard especially if we're running on 1st down 90+% of the time.

2) 2nd Down:
a) This is where we can look to pass. Anywhere between 2nd & 7 to 2nd & 4 are great spots for a controlled passing game. Screens, slants, quick outs/hitches, TE, playaction.
b) This is also the spot where on 2nd & 3 or less from anywhere between our own ~40 and the opponent's ~30, we can look to go playaction and for the big play.
c) When in doubt, 2nd & 3 or less should be an easy spot for us to move the chains with the run or at minimum set ourselves up for two more downs where we need 3 yds. or less.

3rd Down:
a) If we use the 1st down and 2nd down strategy I've mentioned, we should be in good shape to move the chains in short yardage with runs.
b) 3rd & 4-7/8 is a running down for us. We have the ability to get the 1st or set ourselves up for short yardage on 4th.
c) All 3rd & 1's should be a QB sneak/tush push. Don't make this situation harder than it needs to be.

**As much as I'd like to take shots downfield more frequently, I'd much prefer to stay on schedule, limit turnovers, and keep our QB upright. I have tons of faith in our OL with run blocking, but pass blocking is not where we're strongest.

I was thrilled to see us throwing on first down. You can’t do anything 90% of the time, that becomes way too easy to defend. Glad we put first down passes on tape early and hope we continue to do so to keep teams honest.

 

[ashokan]

RU has the 20 to 20 down ok for now
RU has a meatgrinder offense which is GS terrain
I want to see what happens to red zone vs better teams.
Red zone is always RU's problem - the offense is easy to read/anticipate - beans-n-franks.

 

[Shelby65]

Not a big fan of the tush push.

3rd and 4 to 7 is a passing down imo, unless we plan on going for it on 4th.

I really like what I saw from AK but we need more chunk plays against legit teams. Good defensive plays, missed blocks, drops and missed passes will happen to kill drives.

This. Schiano offense requires too many plays to score. The more plays in a possession, the more likely you’ll get a penalty, a drop, a sack, failed conversion or other drive-ender.

Aside from Brown’s busted coverage long TD catch and run from behind the LOS, were there any yards after catch ? Maybe only Konopka’s 6 yard drag also caught behind the line.

Nothing vertical. Zero.

This is why with the Big10s leading rusher they were only 6-6. Being 1 dimensional with only short passes to supplement is not a successful recipe.

 

[Plum Street]

I just emailed this to Schiano, he said thanks!

Did you CC Kirk ? Otherwise , schiano may not forward it to him

 

[Plum Street]

Some thoughts on last night's playcalling and what I believe our playcalling should look like moving forward. I'll preface by mentioning that I've never played or coached football at any level.

1) 1st Down:
a) We should run on 1st down 90% of the time or more. We are a run first team who needs to stay on schedule. 2nd & 10 is not where we want to be because it forces us to pass from a disadvantageous position.
b) We should be going hurry up on every 1st down other than on a change of possession. It will allow us to vary tempo, potentially prevents our opponent from substituting, and helps us catch the opponent off guard especially if we're running on 1st down 90+% of the time.

2) 2nd Down:
a) This is where we can look to pass. Anywhere between 2nd & 7 to 2nd & 4 are great spots for a controlled passing game. Screens, slants, quick outs/hitches, TE, playaction.
b) This is also the spot where on 2nd & 3 or less from anywhere between our own ~40 and the opponent's ~30, we can look to go playaction and for the big play.
c) When in doubt, 2nd & 3 or less should be an easy spot for us to move the chains with the run or at minimum set ourselves up for two more downs where we need 3 yds. or less.

3rd Down:
a) If we use the 1st down and 2nd down strategy I've mentioned, we should be in good shape to move the chains in short yardage with runs.
b) 3rd & 4-7/8 is a running down for us. We have the ability to get the 1st or set ourselves up for short yardage on 4th.
c) All 3rd & 1's should be a QB sneak/tush push. Don't make this situation harder than it needs to be.

**As much as I'd like to take shots downfield more frequently, I'd much prefer to stay on schedule, limit turnovers, and keep our QB upright. I have tons of faith in our OL with run blocking, but pass blocking is not where we're strongest.

Yes we got to run. But I think 90 percent on first down is a lot. You need to keep teams honest

 

[pmvon]

Some thoughts on last night's playcalling and what I believe our playcalling should look like moving forward. I'll preface by mentioning that I've never played or coached football at any level.

1) 1st Down:
a) We should run on 1st down 90% of the time or more. We are a run first team who needs to stay on schedule. 2nd & 10 is not where we want to be because it forces us to pass from a disadvantageous position.
b) We should be going hurry up on every 1st down other than on a change of possession. It will allow us to vary tempo, potentially prevents our opponent from substituting, and helps us catch the opponent off guard especially if we're running on 1st down 90+% of the time.

2) 2nd Down:
a) This is where we can look to pass. Anywhere between 2nd & 7 to 2nd & 4 are great spots for a controlled passing game. Screens, slants, quick outs/hitches, TE, playaction.
b) This is also the spot where on 2nd & 3 or less from anywhere between our own ~40 and the opponent's ~30, we can look to go playaction and for the big play.
c) When in doubt, 2nd & 3 or less should be an easy spot for us to move the chains with the run or at minimum set ourselves up for two more downs where we need 3 yds. or less.

3rd Down:
a) If we use the 1st down and 2nd down strategy I've mentioned, we should be in good shape to move the chains in short yardage with runs.
b) 3rd & 4-7/8 is a running down for us. We have the ability to get the 1st or set ourselves up for short yardage on 4th.
c) All 3rd & 1's should be a QB sneak/tush push. Don't make this situation harder than it needs to be.

**As much as I'd like to take shots downfield more frequently, I'd much prefer to stay on schedule, limit turnovers, and keep our QB upright. I have tons of faith in our OL with run blocking, but pass blocking is not where we're strongest.

Sorry so we should run every first down so the defense knows what we are going to do? Also can a running back run every first down and then hurry up? That won’t make them very effective.

 

[yesrutgers01]

This. Schiano offense requires too many plays to score. The more plays in a possession, the more likely you’ll get a penalty, a drop, a sack, failed conversion or other drive-ender.

Aside from Brown’s busted coverage long TD catch and run from behind the LOS, were there any yards after catch ? Maybe only Konopka’s 6 yard drag also caught behind the line.

Nothing vertical. Zero.

This is why with the Big10s leading rusher they were only 6-6. Being 1 dimensional with only short passes to supplement is not a successful recipe.

you can kind of also turn it around to say we were 7-6 because we did have the B1G top RB...

 

[gef21]

We threw a ton on first down, now Akron has to prepare for pass or run on first down. They can not load the box. I would expect to see us attack the air a lot on first down vs Akron also, giving VA Tech two games of us throwing more on first down and having to scheme for that.

Chess not checkers.

 

[Shelby65]

you can kind of also turn it around to say we were 7-6 because we did have the B1G top RB...

Fair point. But no matter how you look at it, the more snaps you need on a possession the more likely something negative will end the drive.

Playing offense in a 10 yard box is a poor approach.

 

[Shelby65]

We threw a ton on first down, now Akron has to prepare for pass or run on first down. They can not load the box. I would expect to see us attack the air a lot on first down vs Akron also, giving VA Tech two games of us throwing more on first down and having to scheme for that.

Chess not checkers.

Ha ha. Wrong
1. Where was this fantastic multi-game trickery last year ? Did Schiano just think of this ?

2. On D you don’t prepare for 1st down or 2nd down, etc. You prepare for personnel and formations, not pass or run tendencies. Down doesn’t matter. The idea on offense is to have the ability to run lots of different things off of the same personnel and sets so the other team doesn’t know what’s coming.
3. We don’t have that variety and unpredictability.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Ha ha. Wrong
1. Where was this fantastic multi-game trickery last year ? Did Schiano just think of this ?

2. On D you don’t prepare for 1st down or 2nd down, etc. You prepare for personnel and formations, not pass or run tendencies. Down doesn’t matter. The idea on offense is to have the ability to run lots of different things off of the same personnel and sets so the other team doesn’t know what’s coming.
3. We don’t have that variety and unpredictability.

We didn’t last year. In the Howard game, we saw a lot more of that. That pass to Fletcher being the perfect example. In no way- same personal, does GW even attempt that pass and it would have been a handoff to a RB to follow a TE block.
On this play, AK could have kept it and follow a Fletcher block or make the pass tgat he did.
So, same personal set- could have gone mult ways.

 

[gef21]

Ha ha. Wrong
1. Where was this fantastic multi-game trickery last year ? Did Schiano just think of this ?

2. On D you don’t prepare for 1st down or 2nd down, etc. You prepare for personnel and formations, not pass or run tendencies. Down doesn’t matter. The idea on offense is to have the ability to run lots of different things off of the same personnel and sets so the other team doesn’t know what’s coming.
3. We don’t have that variety and unpredictability.

In regards to number 2. You absolutely prepare for down, distance, formation, and personnel (every single down). You know tendencies for every down and distance, with formation, with play calling.

They have always done this, but we clearly were limited in what we could do last year.

That being said if you watch our first few games last year we ran motion to the run, against VA tech we ran motion AWAY from the run and scored immediately. VA tech ran their CBs with our motion because we used motion of the WR to kick out the play side defensive player in the first few games.

Your negativity bias clouded your ideas. If you think a college staff, or even a good high school staff, is not preparing for first and second down you are vastly wrong.

 

[Shelby65]

We didn’t last year. In the Howard game, we saw a lot more of that. That pass to Fletcher being the perfect example. In no way- same personal, does GW even attempt that pass and it would have been a handoff to a RB to follow a TE block.
On this play, AK could have kept it and follow a Fletcher block or make the pass tgat he did.
So, same personal set- could have gone mult ways.

We don’t know about this year. But what I said above is true about Schiano offense in the past. Didn’t care about unpredictability.

 

[Shelby65]

In regards to number 2. You absolutely prepare for down, distance, formation, and personnel (every single down). You know tendencies for every down and distance, with formation, with play calling.

They have always done this, but we clearly were limited in what we could do last year.

That being said if you watch our first few games last year we ran motion to the run, against VA tech we ran motion AWAY from the run and scored immediately. VA tech ran their CBs with our motion because we used motion of the WR to kick out the play side defensive player in the first few games.

Your negativity bias clouded your ideas. If you think a college staff, or even a good high school staff, is not preparing for first and second down you are vastly wrong.

Nope. You look at the formation, personnel and game tape if you have. That guides the D call. Not the down.

 

[e5fdny]

Think a lot of what we saw on Thursday was the opponent (knowing we would win handily by the end) and future opponents (let's try this to give them something else to think about).

It's what this kind of game is for...Win, get some others on the field, don't get hurt and keep the next opponent(s) guessing.

 

[winfield102]

I expect KC to be more creative this year. We seemed to use the whole field against Howard, which resulted in some simple plays gaining nice yardage. Last year it felt like you always knew if we were going left or right prior to the snap. There was more "misdirection" in the Howard game. That said, we have to have some deep shots each game(not needed for Howard).

My biggest thing this year is that I don't want to see us immediately shut down a possession on offense if there is a sack or penalty prior to 3rd down. I don't see us being able to get away with discarding offensive possessions this year.

 

[ru66]

People watch too much TV ( especially sport commentaries ) .Worst of all they start believing stuff that's on it or become experts based on what they hear.

 

[yesrutgers01]

People watch too much TV ( especially sport commentaries ) .Worst of all they start believing stuff that's on it or become experts based on what they hear.

We all do it but I also try to temper my thoughts because I learned that what my eyes see may not have been what happened.
I spent a number of years reviewing and watching games I DCR’ed the week after they played and had the benefit of having a starting OL sit there with me to explain the play, tge responsibilities and why I saw what I thought I saw. Lol it is when I realized that 40 years of being a fan and playing a little in high school- doesn’t mean you know a damn thing about any play.

 

[ashokan]

If anyone is looking for tips... these are real!

 

[NickRU714]

Isn't the universally accepted #1 principle of a successful offense: Pass on 1st down?

Now if you want to say "We can't pass because the QB/WR/OL are terrible" that's a problem of roster construction.
But the general goal philosophy should involve being able to pass on 1st down as a first option.

 

[Extra Point]

We appear to have a reliable QB so I rather see more passing plays on 1st downs until defenses stop playing a hand off to KM on first downs. Even if the pass is only for 4 or 5 yards, it can quickly make the defense start thinking too much.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

I just emailed this to Schiano, he said thanks!

I love this reply. 🤠🤠🤠🤠🤠🤠🤠

 

[gef21]

Nope. You look at the formation, personnel and game tape if you have. That guides the D call. Not the down.

I mean I guess I was on different high school and college staffs, and know different high school and college staffs. Down, distance, formation all played a piece in play calling. As a DC I had my % run and pass based on down and formation and then break down of top plays against those formations and down and distance.

 

[Shelby65]

I mean I guess I was on different high school and college staffs, and know different high school and college staffs. Down, distance, formation all played a piece in play calling. As a DC I had my % run and pass based on down and formation and then break down of top plays against those formations and down and distance.

D subs if O does. That’s reacting to personnel. Obviously if a 1st down run team lines up 5 wide / shotgun the D isn’t playing the run. Regardless of your background, you are wrong. You react to the players and formations…not the down. Down and distance affects personnel on O, but are not the primary drivers of defensive adjustments. Personnel and formation are drivers

 

[RuSnp]

If anyone is looking for tips... these are real!

You gotta buy one - which one and why?

 

[gef21]

D subs if O does. That’s reacting to personnel. Obviously if a 1st down run team lines up 5 wide / shotgun the D isn’t playing the run. Regardless of your background, you are wrong. You react to the players and formations…not the down. Down and distance affects personnel on O, but are not the primary drivers of defensive adjustments. Personnel and formation are drivers

All the pieces of data are critical to being successful.

Again my play sheets / game would have down and distance percentages, formation percentages, play calls etc.

So I know on 2nd and 8 12 personnel ace balanced formation a team runs the ball X percent and throws the ball X percent and then we can know what plays they like to run in this down and distance, and hash, and formation so we know exactly what blitz, coverage behind, and strength we want to play. Ignoring one is terrible coaching.

 

[yesrutgers01]

All the pieces of data are critical to being successful.

Again my play sheets / game would have down and distance percentages, formation percentages, play calls etc.

So I know on 2nd and 8 12 personnel ace balanced formation a team runs the ball X percent and throws the ball X percent and then we can know what plays they like to run in this down and distance, and hash, and formation so we know exactly what blitz, coverage behind, and strength we want to play. Ignoring one is terrible coaching.

He doesn’t understand that while he is correct- the players on the field are important, but the other factors are too.
It’s like he thinks a coach doesn’t have it ALL locked in.
Personnel on the field is a big factor but so is everything else. 1/2/3/4 down distance score quarter time left what has worked what hasn’t

Geez

 

[Shelby65]

He doesn’t understand that while he is correct- the players on the field are important, but the other factors are too.
It’s like he thinks a coach doesn’t have it ALL locked in.
Personnel on the field is a big factor but so is everything else. 1/2/3/4 down distance score quarter time left what has worked what hasn’t

Geez

Sure, other things matter. But players and sets are primary. Down is not. Weather isn’t even primary. Same five wide shotgun in a snowstorm and you’re still playing pass

Team subs in its dedicated running QB who Never passes. That’s the key read, not the down. It’s always the who and formation first.

 

[ashokan]

You gotta buy one - which one and why?

Championship? No.
QB? No
RB? Well they had some success there.
The other tutorials are probably good for what NOT to do lol

 

[RuSnp]

Championship? No.
QB? No
RB? Well they had some success there.
The other tutorials are probably good for what NOT to do lol

I think I agree but for a different reason. The audacity of Kuhr to have a video is amazing to me.

 

[ashokan]

I think I agree but for a different reason. The audacity of Kuhr to have a video is amazing to me.

Lol I had to wipe my eyes when I saw the materials.
You can have the whole set for only $300

https://www.championshipproductions.com/cgi-bin/champ/p/Football/Rutgers-Football-Drills-and-Techniques-Series_FD-05124.html?crm=a-2445

 

[Knight Shift]

He doesn’t understand that while he is correct- the players on the field are important, but the other factors are too.
It’s like he thinks a coach doesn’t have it ALL locked in.
Personnel on the field is a big factor but so is everything else. 1/2/3/4 down distance score quarter time left what has worked what hasn’t

Geez

He is also an insufferable prick best put on ignore and hopefully he goes away.

 

[gef21]

D subs if O does. That’s reacting to personnel. Obviously if a 1st down run team lines up 5 wide / shotgun the D isn’t playing the run. Regardless of your background, you are wrong. You react to the players and formations…not the down. Down and distance affects personnel on O, but are not the primary drivers of defensive adjustments. Personnel and formation are drivers

Okay I just had a real world situation to prove my point. I am doing film breakdown of opponent right now. I have them close to 70% pass on 2nd and 7+. I am watching a game live. They came out in 2nd and 7+ in big I right (QB under center, single WR split to the left, TE to the right, two FBs, and HB). In this formation I have them running 3 playes. Stretch to the strength, counter weakside, and boot to the weakside). The opponent heavily overplayed the run. They ran boot weakside and the inside Fb got into the endzone untouched. weakside LB and weakside DE lost all responsivity backside because they saw formation and thought run.

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

I was thrilled to see us throwing on first down. You can’t do anything 90% of the time, that becomes way too easy to defend. Glad we put first down passes on tape early and hope we continue to do so to keep teams honest.

I will humbly suggest that running on 1st may have value to set up an important go-deep play-action somewhere down the road.

The longer we can program opponents' minds into thinking a said formation and down and distance means RUN.. the more vulnerable they become to surprise.

However.. you are correct.. do it so much that they can get TFLs or no-gains doing that.. and it costs us a lot more than that one opportunity for an important situation.

So.. teh answer may be.. do it, do it well, keep doing it while it works.. find a way to make it work... RPO can be deceptive and still leave teh deep pass unseen and unanticipated by future opponents.