Points production from Thiam/Kiss/Mathis/Harper
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I have a different answer now than I did before the season. Before the season, I didn't expect Thiam to be a total zero offensively; and I expected more consistency from Kiss in scoring about 9-10 ppg. I didn't expect much from Harper since I didn't think he would play more than 10 mpg. But I expected 8 ppg from Mathis while challenging Kiss for the starting SG role.
Our offense has sputtered in large part because of the black hole at SF, with Thiam giving nothing and Harper being unable to throw the ball in an ocean. With both of them struggling, and Kiss up and down from game to game, it has made it even easier for opposing defenses to key on Baker and Omoruyi.
What I HOPE for from these guys going forward:
- Thiam - he needs to get out of this funk (or, if he's still feeling the effects of the flu, he needs to get his strength back) and give us 10 ppg while hitting 2 or 3 threes per game. The success of our offense depends on having this tertiary threat from Thiam, to support Geo and Gene as the primary and secondary threats.
- Harper - he needs to stop shooting threes and get back to focusing on his mid-range to inside game, maybe give us 6 ppg.
- Kiss - he needs to become more consistent, giving us 8 to 16 ppg, and eliminating those games where he completely disappears.
- Mathis - he needs to continue developing his slashing game and learn to "finish" at the tin, and give us 6 ppg while playing lockdown defense.
Concept pg original poster is correct....just would tweak the 4 to McConnell, Mathis, Harper and Carter.
I think Kiss and Thiam are different players but have not shown the same strengths, so I view Kiss as a stronger, shorter Thiam.
McConnell is the key for this years roster. I am certain that if he played 20 minutes that Thiam plays, he would give us the 8 to 10 PPG we are looking for.
He would also free up Baker if necessary and give us more passing on the court.
The key to scoring is having another passer on the court....passers that can score, set up better shot attempts, which makes Mathis, Harper and Carter better.
The faster the lineup shows more Mcconnell and Carter, the faster this year's team looks and plays.
I think Kiss and Thiam are different players but have not shown the same strengths, so I view Kiss as a stronger, shorter Thiam.
McConnell is the key for this years roster. I am certain that if he played 20 minutes that Thiam plays, he would give us the 8 to 10 PPG we are looking for.
He would also free up Baker if necessary and give us more passing on the court.
The key to scoring is having another passer on the court....passers that can score, set up better shot attempts, which makes Mathis, Harper and Carter better.
The faster the lineup shows more Mcconnell and Carter, the faster this year's team looks and plays.
Lots of folks throwing dirt on Thiam. Not giving up on him yet even if he comes off the bench. I think he bounces back on offense going forward and gets close to averaging 10pts/game. KISS is not even in the same universe as Thiam defensively guarding the perimeter or under the basket. Problem with both is that neither has shown the ability to bring up the ball the length of the court or consistently make moves to the basket.
Like McConnell to get more time. Mathis has to develop more finesse finishing at the basket. Like comments on Harper Jr to take more mid range shots to build his confidence.
GO RU
Like McConnell to get more time. Mathis has to develop more finesse finishing at the basket. Like comments on Harper Jr to take more mid range shots to build his confidence.
GO RU
Hope you’re right on Thiam. I’m not seeing the 10 ppg especially with the B1G schedule coming up. He is teetering on the edge of being irrelevant. $$$$
I am unhappy with Thiam production......6pts a game.....he is capable of more
I have to believe he is ill, injured or upset...anyone know??
Kiss is someone I pegged as a hustle/go getter...but he comes and goes
I expect more from him..
he is averaging 9pts a game...I would like a consistent 15+
Mathis is averaging 5pts a game but I expect a solid 10-12pts a game as he matures
I would be fine if he is 5-10pts a game as a he develops into a PG capable of "spelling" GEO
What we get out of our frosh Mathis(5) , Harper(6) , McConnell(2) and Johnson.(2)
can only improve IMO..
I have to believe he is ill, injured or upset...anyone know??
Kiss is someone I pegged as a hustle/go getter...but he comes and goes
I expect more from him..
he is averaging 9pts a game...I would like a consistent 15+
Mathis is averaging 5pts a game but I expect a solid 10-12pts a game as he matures
I would be fine if he is 5-10pts a game as a he develops into a PG capable of "spelling" GEO
What we get out of our frosh Mathis(5) , Harper(6) , McConnell(2) and Johnson.(2)
can only improve IMO..
I agree that Thiam is one of the best defenders on the team. That’s why he’s still getting meaningful PT. The biggest problem with Thiam’s offense is his complete lack of shot attempts. He has the ability to be one of the team’s best jump shooters, but he has only taken an average of 3 shot attempts per game the last 5 games. Part of that is his lack of confidence, but the team and coaches get some of the blame too for not creating better opportunities for him.
Rutgers is getting around 30 points per game from Baker and Eugene.The rest of the team produces around 35 points which isn't enough to win league games There is a lack of consistency among the players which puts added pressure on Baker and Eugene to score.
I am with you, Hawk. Get Mcconnell and Carter in there more asap.the best lineup now would he Mc, Baker, Kiss, EO, and Carter. First off bench for me would be Mathis for Kiss. Later on try RHJ for EO. RHJ is not in a shooting funk. He needs an offseason to get back to fundamentals. Going forward teams will start to give him space.
really hard to say, depending on how the rotation winds up shaking out. If we see much more of McConnel/Baker on the court at the same time, the equation goes down quite a bit.
I also would like to see more of McConnell and Carter. A combined 22 to 26 points/game from Thiam and Kiss and overall better shot selection. More drive and dish plays.
I'd rather see a Kiss that is knocking down shots and is not a liability on defense and a Myles Johnson rebounding, playing good interior defense and a threat on the low blocks. I'd think that both of these players have more upside.
Could be wrong here, but Carter and McConnell playing more seems more of a function of players in front of them on the depth chart not doing what they are supposed to.
Could be wrong here, but Carter and McConnell playing more seems more of a function of players in front of them on the depth chart not doing what they are supposed to.
Not quite sure how to interpret this but i never thought Doorson, Myles Johnson were double digit scoring threats since the end of last season or coming into this season. Carter at least gives the roster a chance to get 8 to 12 points per game, if they get enough time on the court.
Kiss is 3rd in scoring at around 9PPG and the 5 position could get more touches. Carter is the most equipped to score.
As far as McConnell, someone can help solve the reduction of Bakers minutes from at times 35 to 37 minutes to a more reasonable 29 to 30. If McConnell gets part of Bakers and Thiam minutes, there's 20-24 minutes a game there, where I think he can generate 8 to 10 points.
This isn't a knock on Thiam, who has been sick, but 6PPG from any starter, should be closer to 10 to 12 per game. Some of the games have been matching up but his lack of production is very tough to carry when you have Baker and Eugene as your top.2 scores.
At Wisconsin...20 minutes 1 shot 0 points
At Fordham.....18 minutes....3 shots....5 points
At SHU.......17 minutes.....3 shots.....0 points
Columbia....OT game...30 minutes....5 shots....2 points.
I have 85 minutes in 4 games with 12 shot attempts and 9 points.
As much as Thiam has length to defend, he lost Powell at least 2 to 3 times on simple ball fakes or shuffles allowing space to shoot 3s and if he's not getting to the FT line, I can't see teams allowing him 4 to 5 open 3s a game, for him to score 10-12 per game.
We need another ball handler that can generate his own offense off the bounce and if covered, has an ability to make a pass. McConnell is a capable shooter, so you aren't losing shooting when he's on the court.
The goal is to get 4 players each night into double figures, however that gets done. It can only be done by increasing the potential for assists and shot attempts and finding passing lanes for Carter.
I think Kiss and Mathis are more than capable in their minutes to generate points, we just need more scoring threats on the court as often as possible.
I think Hawk is correct. i feel McConnell and Carter can both give us a few more points and their getting a few more minutes might just light a fire under Thiam, Kiss, Harper, Mathis and Johnson. at least I hope it can.
A small forwards role is to score. Coaching needs to Take some accountability as they need to figure a way to get Thiam more involved in the game flow when healthy.
Pike should call for plays where he gets the ball - even if it’s posting his guy up just to get him going. Run that same play on 4 consecutive trips. If he doesn’t shoot it, pull him and tell him next time they give him the ball if he doesn’t shoot it he’s coming out. Then tell him on another play his job is to dunk it. If he gets an offensive foul, blocked or walks, I don’t care as long as the play ends with a dunk attempt or bodies on the floor. If he cannot adapt, ultimately he will need to sit. Maine is the perfect opportunity to try this experiment.
Teams can be good with defensive minded PGs or C but only because they are bringing either assists or rebounds also. SFs need to score and get to the basket. Hanging on the perimeter is not enough and won’t work at this level.
They need to run some practices designed to get Thiam to shoot. Set a goal of 30 to 35% of his team's shots. Not that you'd want him to take that many in a game, but you make it high so that the mindset becomes ingrained in him so he gives you just enough come game time. Shots must come in the natural flow of the offense. Team cannot just give the ball to Thiam for his shots. This should force Thiam to work to get open and get in the habit of demanding the ball from his teammates. Then at the end of practice, for every percentage point that Thiam falls short, he has to run a lap around the RAC or something like that. Being from Africa, he probably hates the cold, so the threat of that may be even worse for him than the running.
This is all 100% correct and not to pick on Thiam, but the Open Practice yesterday had other players encouraging him to shoot, when he passed up an open 3 and another fastbreak option where he could have filled the lane for a dunk or layup but drifted to the 3 point line, which took away a passing option for the guard running the break. There is ability there, but I don't believe there's the basketball instincts that are there, mixed with the physical ability that's needed for 25 minutes a game.
I could also argue that everything posted above could apply to whatever player not named Geo and Eugene, and it would elevate that players scoring. Specifically Mathis or Harper. Someone should have a green light to go get their own offense, so teams preparing for RU have to think of something else. I think Jacob Young is that player that has the instincts and scoring mentality missing from a 3rd option or 4th option as of right now.
The bigs don't get enough touches to generate 10 shot attempts a game, so my guess would be to have some semblance of offense, it depends on what defense the opponent is playing. Maine is likely going to show zone defense, so maybe Thiam gets freed up today, but it still requires some drive into the teeth of the zone, with a jump pass or skip pass to find a shooter with space. And the zone offense should always open up the free throw line person to shoot midrange or generate offense with a dump inside to the post or skip pass to find a spot up shooter. Eugene should have a big game today, if Maine plays zone, he'll have lanes to drive and score and has mid range options to shoot or pass.....Myles Johnson could also exploit a zone with his passing as well, from the high post/foul line.
For today's game I want to see this quartet drive to the basket and shoot 10-12 footers. Stop settling for the lazy 3 and earn the points the old fashioned way
Agree 100% Hawk there is no way Powell should have been able to shoot over Thiam so easily but he did and I think McConnel is actually a better defender than Thiam and the other thing is he can relieve Baker of some pressure of guarding the teams best guard than that will only help Baker on the offensive end
