Politi Weighs in on RU BB - Link
- Thread starter Knightmoves
- Start date
Even if she did not publicly state it this way, an approach that does nothing to improve the basketball infrastructure for 5-7 years is surrender in my book.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
The Ledger is saying she has "surrendered" and "given up". If this isn't responded to publicly before the end of the day, we have big issues.
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This won't be responded to because there is no response. And yes we do have big issues.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
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This won't be responded to because there is no response. And yes we do have big issues.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
JH has been here less than 2 years and hasn't been able to fundraise enough build two new facilities and fund the support system properly, all while being given a mandate make the department revenue neautral? She sucks.
Back to reality. Donors. Other schools have them, Rutgers doesn't. That is the difference. Short of some white knight strolling in and giving the department $100MM, the song will remain the same.
I will say it again. Suspend the program for the foreseeable future until such time as the program can be fed properly. That will be when B1G money comes in. Until then, and MAYBE then, the thought of a winning season is laughable.
It is just how it is people.
Back to reality. Donors. Other schools have them, Rutgers doesn't. That is the difference. Short of some white knight strolling in and giving the department $100MM, the song will remain the same.
I will say it again. Suspend the program for the foreseeable future until such time as the program can be fed properly. That will be when B1G money comes in. Until then, and MAYBE then, the thought of a winning season is laughable.
It is just how it is people.
You call Jim Delany. We will not suspend the program for Gods sake. Maybe we could hire a coach that might have a prayer of succeeding in this environment. Is Eddie Jordan that bad a coach that we'd prefer to shut down the program then letting him continue?
This post was edited on 2/23 1:05 PM by ruman
This post was edited on 2/23 1:05 PM by ruman
This is taken directly from the article:
That wasn't a game, but a Court Club meeting where the message from Julie Hermann, as summarized by one person in the room when the athletic director address a hundred or so diehards, was essentially this:
"You can forget about having any hope for your program for the next decade."
It's complete bullshit that he put that in the article as a quote. That's what you respond to.
Please craft the response. "We plan to increase support in the basketball program by ???"
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
No coach could win at Rutgers as constituted, nor would any credentialed coach even try. Lack of support is a deal killer to anyone with accomplishment.
No win situation. Nowhere near the support to even be in the game and no funds to get in the game.
Leaves no real options for success. Rutgers basketball will be a punching bag for many years, if not longer.
Yes. Every coach is exactly the same. Greg Schiano and Terry Shea were exactly the same. Schiano just got lucky. Shea could never catch a break
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Perfect example actually. Terry Shea isn't a horrible coach. He has been hired for roles since. He wasn't able to sell the program likely because there was zero investment. Much like hoops.
Greg Schiano comes in with a list of demands that take investing. Voila', he gets them, and we start going to bowl games after they are implemented. Unfortunately, that isn't an option, per Julie, right now. A guy like GS would never have touched Rutgers without a promise of those investments, likey any real coach would do in the hoops situation.
Basketball is a kin to Terry Shea era football and is a perfect example of what needs to be done, but won't.
Thanks for pointing this out.
Greg Schiano comes in with a list of demands that take investing. Voila', he gets them, and we start going to bowl games after they are implemented. Unfortunately, that isn't an option, per Julie, right now. A guy like GS would never have touched Rutgers without a promise of those investments, likey any real coach would do in the hoops situation.
Basketball is a kin to Terry Shea era football and is a perfect example of what needs to be done, but won't.
Thanks for pointing this out.
Terry Shea, a pro coach with two years of college HC experience, with no connection to the east coast, would never have won at Rutgers. He might have known X's and O's, but he was not equipped to coach in NJ at Rutgers. It didn't matter what the infrastucture was. That is what we have now in MBB
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Rutgers basketball has no infrastructure. That is correct, and that is the point. Not sure what you are arguing given your admission.
No coach, without infrastructure investments, is going to win, nor would any come.
No coach, without infrastructure investments, is going to win, nor would any come.
Looking forward to the tournament, where a bunch of mid majors that spend a third what we do start winning games. I'm not saying we don't need support. I think this article was perfect. But to think we can't be better than this mess is stupid. And that does not include shutting the program down. Here's an idea. You can shut the program down yourself. Stop following it. That effectively shuts it down for your purposes.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Posted from Rivals Mobile
Cali, I think you are a smart guy but you are way off with this one. Shea thought he could come into RU (after taking a planned vacation during the heart of recruiting season) and out scheme other teams and be successful. He was a horrendous recruiter with extremely limited ties to eastern recruiting. He has not gotten a sniff at a head coaching job even in the MAC since his RU disaster. He is what he is. A slow paced western guy who knows offense and is a good position coach/coordinator. But never a head guy. He was not a salesman in any sense of that word.
Contrast that to GS. He came into a broken football program with below average facilities. He insisted that certain things be done before accepting the job. Why did he do this? Because he knew if RU didn't, he would not have a chance. He was also sure that there would be future offers from other programs. He put in huge hours building a football program and changing the perception of RU football in our area. After some success and increased fan interest, he demanded the stadium be expanded or else he would take some top offers that came his way. Ultimately, it was our improved football program and the support that RU showed to it that got us into the B1G. We now need the equivalent of GS to save our basketball program.
This is kindergarten level logic. RU should inform the B1G conference that they should not schedule RU for MBB for the next x number of years until our AD gives it the green light at some point down the road ? Any RU fan who buys into that concept is in need of basic skills training or is in dire need of attention on a message board.
the other line of thinking that is laughable is that Eddie is the root cause of our BB funding problem. Both Eddie and the AD have both been at RU for two years but the HC is to blame while the AD gets a hall pass. Did anyone who attended the Court Club meeting hear about a vision for RU BB ?
Mid majors competing against other mid majors (who in some cases have better support than RU by the way), and aren't getting to the tournament by needing to beat programs in their conference they play every night who are light years ahead of them.
Middle Tennessee State wouldn't be a player in the B1G.
The question is simple. Do you believe that GS would have won what he did if no investments were made in the program and he had to make do with what Shea had? Do you think GS would have even come after stating that he had a list of demands? The answer to those questions are both very easy.
But somehow basketball is different? Then why aren't winning? FHJ can recruit- except at Rutgers. Gary Waters won before and after, Rutgers. Even Mike Rice won, before he was at Rutgers. All mediocre or below coaches that have had success elsewhere, but not at Rutgers. Knightmoves, perhaps you are the simpleton. Pinning this on the head coach and not looking at the more complex root causes is a bit more complicated than maybe you are capable of understanding.
He wasn't a good salesman. He had nothing to sell even if he was.
GS at least could point to his binder and say, "look, I came here from the University of Miami where they win championships. I came here because the university made me a promise for x, y and z so as you can see, we want to win and are going to. Come help be a part of that effort."
What is Eddie saying? I asked for investments but the unviversity can't make them. Yea, our facillities suck, we don't charter flights and our support staff is lacking, but hey, I want to win. Sorry we couldn't recruit you with the fervor or other schools, we just don't have the money. The RAC? We are going retro. Ain't it cool? Eddie has nothing to sell other than his NBA background, and other schools can easily combat that. Most importantly, Eddie doesn't even have the PROMISE of something to sell. No win situation.
Terry Shea was just a coach, not a builder. He likely didn't ask for anything, and perhaps might not have gotten it even if he did. That whole scenario is a perfect example though. Invest and you have a chance. Go cheap by just hiring a coach and expecting that to change things when it has failed repeatedly, is inviting more losing.
GS at least could point to his binder and say, "look, I came here from the University of Miami where they win championships. I came here because the university made me a promise for x, y and z so as you can see, we want to win and are going to. Come help be a part of that effort."
What is Eddie saying? I asked for investments but the unviversity can't make them. Yea, our facillities suck, we don't charter flights and our support staff is lacking, but hey, I want to win. Sorry we couldn't recruit you with the fervor or other schools, we just don't have the money. The RAC? We are going retro. Ain't it cool? Eddie has nothing to sell other than his NBA background, and other schools can easily combat that. Most importantly, Eddie doesn't even have the PROMISE of something to sell. No win situation.
Terry Shea was just a coach, not a builder. He likely didn't ask for anything, and perhaps might not have gotten it even if he did. That whole scenario is a perfect example though. Invest and you have a chance. Go cheap by just hiring a coach and expecting that to change things when it has failed repeatedly, is inviting more losing.
Cali,
I'm the simpleton ? You our are so far off that I don't even know where to begin to communicate with you on this subject, so I won't bother.
please defend your position that RU should shut down MBB. What would the B1G conference have to say about that ? Would it be within conference rules and how would they schedule next season's MBB without RU ? Do you think before you post ?
I need to say a couple of words about this...
Admittedly, I did not hear every word Julie said at our meeting. I am often pulled away by verifying 50/50 totals or door prize winners...or just getting organized to clean up and move things out so we can get home at a decent hour.
That said, more than one person had expressed this sentiment (or a similar one) to me upon exit, and the days following our gathering. Just look at that Court Club thread for your verification on that. These articles (SP isn't the only one that fishes in our pond) are often generated by reading this forum.
As one of the few BASKETBALL FIRST guys left out there at Rutgers, I wasn't enthusiastic about what I heard. That's the honest truth. But we shouldn't rush to judgement on this topic with JH and her administration. There are things going on behind the scenes that give me cause to hope.
Is a new RAC happening? No..probably not. But the RAC isn't the problem in my opinion. Having seen 3/4 of the B1G arenas first hand...we aren't that bad off as it pertains to the actual building!
I will leave the debate as to what is needed for the program to succeed to others in this forum. I have my own opinions which I have made known to the staff, the administration and anyone else that will listen, but it isn't my place to air them here.
This post was edited on 2/23 11:19 PM by BKIn118
Admittedly, I did not hear every word Julie said at our meeting. I am often pulled away by verifying 50/50 totals or door prize winners...or just getting organized to clean up and move things out so we can get home at a decent hour.
That said, more than one person had expressed this sentiment (or a similar one) to me upon exit, and the days following our gathering. Just look at that Court Club thread for your verification on that. These articles (SP isn't the only one that fishes in our pond) are often generated by reading this forum.
As one of the few BASKETBALL FIRST guys left out there at Rutgers, I wasn't enthusiastic about what I heard. That's the honest truth. But we shouldn't rush to judgement on this topic with JH and her administration. There are things going on behind the scenes that give me cause to hope.
Is a new RAC happening? No..probably not. But the RAC isn't the problem in my opinion. Having seen 3/4 of the B1G arenas first hand...we aren't that bad off as it pertains to the actual building!
I will leave the debate as to what is needed for the program to succeed to others in this forum. I have my own opinions which I have made known to the staff, the administration and anyone else that will listen, but it isn't my place to air them here.
This post was edited on 2/23 11:19 PM by BKIn118
You've just captured the main thrust of Politis article, so I don't know how you could imply his info was wrong. She shouldn't have said something like this. How are season ticket holders supposed to feel when they hear something like this. We're not going to be able to do a damned thing for years and years to come sure sounds like surrender to me. And I like her. I think she has the vision to carry us forward but feel concerned whether she'll ever be able to muster up the support.
the gist of her message should have been
- we know there are issues
- we have a plan to fix them
- we need your support to fix this
-a commitment to getting it fixed
projecting an image of helplessness is going to cost us season ticket holders. People don't want to hear we can't do a damned thing for years and years to come.
This Politi article has generated more discussion outside this board then our constant whining has generated in years. I have no issues with his article. I applaud it. And laying this at the feet of the AD may not be fair, but she's the point person. On the other hand, any plan that doesn't consider any improvement for 5 years at the earliest is not acceptable and plain awful. Hopefully this debate spurs discussion for looking at plans to accelerate things.
As for Politi, at least this article is focused on Julie doing her job, and not one of these personal attacks about nothing. He's still a dope. Right now I think he's a useful one.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
This post was edited on 2/23 11:05 PM by ruman
As for Politi, at least this article is focused on Julie doing her job, and not one of these personal attacks about nothing. He's still a dope. Right now I think he's a useful one.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
This post was edited on 2/23 11:05 PM by ruman
sorry Al you are wrong
she said all of the things you just said above
that's where Politi and a few of you like 66 just run and take tidbits and fail reading comprehension
the main thing she said was that the school wasn't spending money. She did not say to anyone anything was hopeless. A lot of people making up shit and failing to read...politi one of them and a few here on the board too
People need to hear reality rather than smoke blown up their ass like Mulcahy and TP did
Not spending money = hopelessness. All we say here is what a joke it is that Rutgers won't invest in basketball. The AD confirms this, it gets reported, and many are up,in arms. I am so glad this is out there. This situation cannot get worse. Maybe it will do some good by having it addressed in public.
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Posted from Rivals Mobile
For the record...i have had zero contacts from the athletic department since Julie was hired. I got plenty when pernetti was there, albeit all about football when I made it clear every time I was a hoops 1st fan.
He does...as I've mentioned/posted information about ECU's Basketball Practice Facility ($17 Million - $19 Million) that was built with 100% private donations/gifts multiple times.
PS. I do think articles like this that talk about information normally only available to a few in person (and a slightly larger audience in this website) is a good thing...as maybe it wakes up the silent minority, who had no clue how bad things have become and/or clueless that much smaller programs have been able to built new facilities while RU won't even try.
This post was edited on 2/24 9:12 AM by Knight_Light
PS. I do think articles like this that talk about information normally only available to a few in person (and a slightly larger audience in this website) is a good thing...as maybe it wakes up the silent minority, who had no clue how bad things have become and/or clueless that much smaller programs have been able to built new facilities while RU won't even try.
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The reach of the basketball board only goes so far - no where important
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The reach of the basketball board only goes so far - no where important
Mulcahy was a genius at fundraising. Hell,he even convinced the NJ politicians to spend money for RU football. If that isn't fundraising, I don't know what is.
His problem was, he didn't ake care of any other sport. He just raised money for football.
A genius at fundraising? He was supposed to raise 30M for the stadium renovation and we only got 1-2M IIRC. Instead we issued a 100M in debt. I wouldn't call that a genius in fundraising. Do you think he could raise more debt now if he was the AD with the 100M debt on the books and an 18M subsidy? I highly doubt it. Fundraising is getting private money from donors, not the school issuing debt.
If I was the AD and we had some acceptable amount to invest, the RAC is the last thing I would look at. Building a practice facility, raising the recruiting budget, travel budget, and budget for support staff/better assitants would have a much bigger and immediate impact.
Back this is where you are failing reading comprehension. Her message shouldn't have been "we are NOT spending money".
How are fans supposed to get excited about this type of message?
Her message should have been, "we'll be able to spend whatever you give us". Notice the difference?
ridiculous...you are parsing words...do we have to go to the exact dictation of what she said, did anyone bring a taperecorder...good lord
He got the NJ Govt to pay for part of the renovation, and kick in money for other football spending.
Had we not renovated our stadium, we would be stuck in the AAC with UCONN.
he got shit done, and part of that was getting NJ politicians to open up their wallets.
So Yes, Mulcahy was a genius at fundraising....for football.
Of course the stadium renovation and getting the football program up to par was instrumental in getting us into the B10. Yes he got things done but he got those things done in a different environment than today. The BOG was much more supportive than it is now and there wasn't a huge debt or as large a subsidy back then and the focus/microscope wasn't on the athletic department as much as it is now. It's the way he got those things done that got him targeted and ousted.
If he could actually better fundraise from private sources, not just issuing debt with a supportive BOG behind him, he wouldn't have been ousted the way he was and wouldn't have been as vulnerable to the hit job that got him. We were suppose to fundraise 30M for the stadium, we raised 1-2. I'm not sure how much of the Hale Center renovation was raised privately either. If he could actually fundraise privately he would have lasted longer. The environment and microscope we're under as an AD was completely different for TP and now JH. As I said the AD that can really move the needle in actual fundraising here will be the first.
This post was edited on 2/25 7:32 AM by rutgersguy1
It was a mistake to covey the impression that it "will be extremely difficult to do a damned thing for years and years to come"
this is idea sure conveys surrender to me. I would have preferred a more "can do" attitude. Ie "it's going to be difficult to do, but I fell optimistic we can get this done"
Maybe Julie's message that nothing is happening for years to come was to reinforce that all fundraising is going towards operating deficits. That is the sad truth. I had found myself wondering where all of the seat donations and increased ticket revenue money was going. I was quietly wondering why we were still struggling to scrape up $3 million for the baseball/softball project when there seemed to be a nice boost in revenues this year. Now we know it is all going to paying off the deficit.
The sad truth is that if you ran a poll in the Targum, asking the students if they would rather keep the deficit for 4 years and pay $100 per semester for more competitive teams, or get rid of the deficit, I think athletics would win.
The sad truth is that if you ran a poll in the Targum, asking the students if they would rather keep the deficit for 4 years and pay $100 per semester for more competitive teams, or get rid of the deficit, I think athletics would win.
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