Princeton

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

And getting a win means nothing

Which schedule is better and would you prefer for ncaa tourney purposes

2022-2023 OOC schedule or the below

FDU
Monmouth 2 for 1
Central ct state
SHU
Gavitt
Holiday tourney with 3 teams (Memphis, Oklahoma, Siena as an example of what SHU had this year)
Princeton 2 for 1
Temple 2 for 1

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Now granted i dont watch princeton every game but I watched them a ton the final month of the season and went to their game vs penn at jadwin, first time there.

1) cool arena
2) Their big Tosan is VERY good. Hed easily be a mile be our best player

Is the fear here that they may be better than us? Imo this year they wouldve beaten us. But if we played at jadwin hypothetically it’s a q2 loss to the ivy champ. The committee is not gonna knock you for that, theyll respect you for scheduling a legitimate opponent and not a program that might not beat most d2’s in ccsu

 

[fluoxetine]

If Princeton wants to come to the RAC, have at it. I don't see why we should ever play a road game at Princeton. Regardless of what might have been true in the past, they aren't any different than any other low major basketball program.

 

[GORU2014]

And getting a win means nothing

It would make a subset of the fanbase feel good for 2 days

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

The fact remains that big time teams don't schedule Princeton, full stop.

RU can find a better opponent that makes sense and moves the needle. Princeton only matters to a fraction of the fanbase. There is no fear factor, it is conducting itself like a big program.

And no one wants to mimic a schedule like Seton Hall plays, it is weird that kyk1827 is using Seton Halls schedule as some sort of barometer. If they have an overall better SOS, then he would be correct.....

Teams in the Big East HAVE TO schedule Power 5 teams in their OOC, because the bottom of the Big East is not good.

Princeton is not happening anyway, find another Q1 or Q2 game and keep the rest intact.

 

[bac2therac]

Which schedule is better and would you prefer for ncaa tourney purposes

2022-2023 OOC schedule or the below

FDU
Monmouth 2 for 1
Central ct state
SHU
Gavitt
Holiday tourney with 3 teams (Memphis, Oklahoma, Siena as an example of what SHU had this year)
Princeton 2 for 1
Temple 2 for 1

Im all for a 8 team tourney

 

[NickRU714]

Unfortunately, with the way the NET system works big schools get crushed for losing “bad games.”

I kind of get it.

Yes we beat Purdue on the road when they were #1. But it's not some news breaking win. Obviously we weren't expected to win but it's not like we are Eddie Jordan Rutgers anymore.

The problem is the flip side - elevated expectations comes with expectation to beat much lower teams.
Which we've struggled to do.

This season we were much closer to Purdue than Seton Hall.

That's why I find it weird when people say "upgrade the schedule". We already struggled with the current OOC.
So better OOC SOS but even less wins?
That gets us over the hump?

 

[IL Lusciato]

Bring back the rivalry!

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

NET rating as of today.

Seton Hall 77

RU 40

B1G opponents

5 Purdue
30 Indiana
31 Maryland
33 Michigan State
34 Illinois
39 Iowa
40 RU
41 NWestern
48 Penn State
52 Ohio State
61 Michigan
80 Wisconsin
92 Nebraska
220 Minnesota

Big East

8 Uconn
12 Marquette
17 Creighton
22 Xavier
56 Providence (11 seed ??)
75 Villanova
77 Seton Hall
98 St John's
131 Butler
163 DePaul
243 Georgetown

The teams mentioned like Temple finished at 127....
Princeton is 116 after yesterday's win.....why would you add a game that is around Butler, DePaul on your ratings, is crazy. There is ZERO benefit to scheduling a team OOC in a home and home or 2 for 1, in the 100 to 160 range, which is where Princeton is going to land 99% of the time.

If you are kyk1827 and keep bringing up Seton Halls OOC, look at the numbers....you have NINE games against teams from 98 to 243 in the Big East.....a round Robin playing each of those teams twice AND a 3rd matchup in the BE tournament.

Even with Minnesota being awful, there are only 2 games vs SIX or SEVEN games you have to account for with Butler, Georgetown and DePaul in the 100s to 200s.


You cannot compare an OOC slate of SHU and say RU should do the same thing.....RU has NINETEEN games against teams from 1 to 80....Seton Hall has TWELVE.

19 is greater than 12......(I think)....LMAO

 

[MiloTalon13]

Haha the posters who are afraid to play princeton are laughable. We play a total dogshit ooc schedule and need to improve it. A simple 2-1 with princeton is a slam dunk on so many levels.

When away, we can create a neutral court environment at jadwin in a q2 away game (committee loves away ooc wins), when home its a q3 home game (youre allowed some q3’s losses and arent we supposed to have an unreal home court?).

If you give your balls a tug here your ideal occ

SHU
Gavitt/years were not in gavitt schedule a p6 game
Holiday tourney (memphis, oklahoma, siena giving the example of seton halls opponents in theirs this year).
Temple/Hofstra 2 for 1
Princeton 2 for 1
Monmouth 2 for 1
Central CT
FDU

Nice Shoresy!

 

[RU_DIO]

Im all for a 8 team tourney

I'm supposed to be going to this next season during Thanksgiving week with the family.

I wish Rutgers would play in this tournament.

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A men's college basketball event at Atlantis Bahamas. Who's participating in this years Battle 4 Atlantis so you can support!

www.atlantisbahamas.com

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Indiana
Duke
Syracuse
BYU
Maryland
St John's
ASU
Miami

All played Princeton in last 9 years

But we’re better than all those schools. Too good to play princeton lol

 

[fluoxetine]

Indiana
Duke
Syracuse
BYU
Maryland
St John's
ASU
Miami

All played Princeton in last 9 years

But we’re better than all those schools. Too good to play princeton lol

How many of those games were at Jadwin?

 

[High Quality H2O]

12-8 isn’t just tough. What have we done it, once? Barely.

You’re right it’s down right impressive.
But that is what we should be gunning for.
We still numbers in the left hand column was my point.
A certain number of cupcakes serve their purpose.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

How many of those games were at Jadwin?

Wouldnt it be beneficial for us to play @ jadwin for those who dont want q3 games? Seems the fear here is them coming into the rac and beating our ass

 

[RPinelli]

There is more to this than what is probably over 33 games a statistically insignificant metric. There is playing an iconic program. There is playing a program in which 153 D-1 schools emulate wrinkles of their offense. Princeton basketball is a serious national brand. There is prude. There is no team which I have derived more satisfaction from defeating in all sports. The 75-62 win at Jadwin in 1976 sits with the Louisville football win and the Purdue basketball wins. I am neither right nor wrong. I have an opinion which is probably shared by 50% of alumni. But the key issue is who are you replacing? Don't play it as an add on. Replace a Coppin State,Bucknell or Columbia. Rutgers will be above sweating on Selection Sunday. And I am good with either or both a 2-1, or always playing at the RAC. Princeton would not play Rutgers in football in New Brunswick for 68 straight years. So ok just play at the RAC. Rice,Bannon and Tom all recognized the value of the game. Gary was into it. Bill Foster was a huge zealot of it. Argue as much as you want,but if would never be the NCAA decider. But, unfortunately it is never happening under Steve and he is the boss. Not me.

I grew up in the Princeton area and went to RU. Started watching Princeton in the early 60s when they had Bill Bradley, arguably one of the greatest college basketball players ever (not pro). He took them single handedly to the Final Four where he scored 58 points against Wichita State (with All America Dave Stallworth) in the consolation game. Team was coached by Butch Van Breda Kolff who left Princeton for the LA Lakers.
Princeton had great teams in the 60s and early 70s with great players like Geoff Petrie (NBA Rookie of the year), Brian Taylor (ABA Rookie of the year), Armond Hill, the Hummer brothers, Chris Thomforde, Gary Walters and others. I saw Princeton vs. RU Freshman game in 1970. Both teams had heralded freshman, Taylor at Princeton and Gene Armstead at RU. Like RU 72, I too was at the 76 Jadwin as a RU student. Great game as was the NCAA game we won later that year when Pete Malloy of Princeton missed a foul shot at the end.

Although RU's basketball brand has been improving with the B1G and Pike, I believe Princeton's brand is stronger nationally. I don't claim to understand NET and the other analytics well, but I would like to see us play them. Irrespective of the NET ranking, a win over them any year would be perceived very positively, and it seems that the NCAA committee does take perceptions into account when picking the field. I see more upside than downside in playing them.

 

[fluoxetine]

Wouldnt it be beneficial for us to play @ jadwin for those who dont want q3 games? Seems the fear here is them coming into the rac and beating our ass

Can’t speak for others, but I don’t mind playing them at the RAC. I don’t specifically care, but I’m not against it.

I wouldn’t play any road games against non power conference teams.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Can’t speak for others, but I don’t mind playing them at the RAC. I don’t specifically care, but I’m not against it.

I wouldn’t play any road games against non power conference teams.

If we play at Jadwin its hugely beneficial. Q2 + neutral court type environment

A 2 for 1 makes sense

 

[RUChoppin]

Can’t speak for others, but I don’t mind playing them at the RAC. I don’t specifically care, but I’m not against it.

I wouldn’t play any road games against non power conference teams.

If we played them occasionally at home, I'd be fine with that - but but Princeton doesn't replace a Bucknell/Coppin/etc.... they'd need to replace Temple/UMass-Lowell/etc, and we need to reduce the number of Q3 OOC games altogether.

 

[Joey Bags]

No upside to scheduling them...q3 at home and q2 at best on road. They will be rated 80-150 range every year

There is if we replace FDU/NJIT/Rider with them

 

[Joey Bags]

Or we could just make this easy and never play another NJ team again because they are all net negatives according to some

 

[RUChoppin]

There is if we replace FDU/NJIT/Rider with them

Really isn't an upside to replacing a Q4 with a Q3. Take our 5 OOC Q3 games and make them 2 Q1 games, 1 Q3 game, and 2 Q4 games.

 

[FastMJ]

Wouldnt it be beneficial for us to play @ jadwin for those who dont want q3 games? Seems the fear here is them coming into the rac and beating our ass

Let's just play at Jadwin every year!

 

[GORU2014]

Let's just play at Jadwin every year!

Forget Pack the RAC, the Jad is Rad!

 

[bac2therac]

Indiana
Duke
Syracuse
BYU
Maryland
St John's
ASU
Miami

All played Princeton in last 9 years

But we’re better than all those schools. Too good to play princeton lol

Where did they play them

 

[bac2therac]

Oh and asu lost to PU in Tempe

 

[GORU2014]

Oh and asu lost to PU in Tempe

I heard they also beat Arizona on a neutral court recently…

Some more food for thought on why this is a terrible idea:

2021-22: PU beat SCAR (neutral), Oregon State (away), and took Minnesota to 2OT (neutral)
2018-19: Beat ASU (away, the game you mentioned)
2017-18: Beat USC (away)

 

[mdk01]

I grew up in the Princeton area and went to RU. Started watching Princeton in the early 60s when they had Bill Bradley, arguably one of the greatest college basketball players ever (not pro). He took them single handedly to the Final Four where he scored 58 points against Wichita State (with All America Dave Stallworth) in the consolation game. Team was coached by Butch Van Breda Kolff who left Princeton for the LA Lakers.
Princeton had great teams in the 60s and early 70s with great players like Geoff Petrie (NBA Rookie of the year), Brian Taylor (ABA Rookie of the year), Armond Hill, the Hummer brothers, Chris Thomforde, Gary Walters and others. I saw Princeton vs. RU Freshman game in 1970. Both teams had heralded freshman, Taylor at Princeton and Gene Armstead at RU. Like RU 72, I too was at the 76 Jadwin as a RU student. Great game as was the NCAA game we won later that year when Pete Malloy of Princeton missed a foul shot at the end.

Although RU's basketball brand has been improving with the B1G and Pike, I believe Princeton's brand is stronger nationally. I don't claim to understand NET and the other analytics well, but I would like to see us play them. Irrespective of the NET ranking, a win over them any year would be perceived very positively, and it seems that the NCAA committee does take perceptions into account when picking the field. I see more upside than downside in playing them.

Not stronger nationally anymore. In the late 60's - early 70's Penn and Princeton were both Top 20, sometime Top 15 D1 teams. That was with a 16 team tournament. You wanted to see a war? You watched the finals of the ACC tournament with the loser going to the NIT.

Ivy basketball is still recovering from it's mid-late 80's nadir, which Princeton began to reverse with that great Georgetown game. But It's not all the way back.

 

[GORU2014]

If you think about Opponent NET and Expected Opponent Competitiveness for each of our games:

Opponent NET High, Opponent Competitiveness Low: Best

Opponent NET Low, Opponent Competiveness Low: Fine

Opponent NET High, Opponent Competitiveness High: Fine

Opponent NET Low, Opponent Competitiveness High: Worst

Princeton would generally fall in that 4th category.

 

[bac2therac]

A win over Princeton is consider a win over 111 or whatever they were ranked

Committee doesnt recognize names

 

[RUChoppin]

A win over Princeton is consider a win over 111 or whatever they were ranked

Committee doesnt recognize names

Unless that name is known as a member of the mountain west conference, lol

 

[fluoxetine]

If you think about Opponent NET and Expected Opponent Competitiveness for each of our games:

Opponent NET High, Opponent Competitiveness Low: Best

Opponent NET Low, Opponent Competiveness Low: Fine

Opponent NET High, Opponent Competitiveness High: Fine

Opponent NET Low, Opponent Competitiveness High: Worst

Princeton would generally fall in that 4th category.

If they're really that competitive, their NET would be higher.

 

[GORU2014]

If they're really that competitive, their NET would be higher.

Not necessarily. I feel pretty strongly that there are intangibles around in-state games and having something to prove. There’s variability around any single game; even with beating Arizona now this year they have a NET of 110+. We’d also need to factor in our own weaknesses; we’ve proven to be inconsistent in these types of games.

 

[ru66]

Who needs Princeton? To satisfy ru72's desire for the good old days and to show the world we play an elite school?? Dumbest wish ever, no major power 5 school will play them regularly or at all. Why ? they don't give a crap about who and what Prineton is. Let his pet Uconn play them.

 

[RUChoppin]

If they're really that competitive, their NET would be higher.

I'd agree more if you were talking about Bart or Kenpom.... NET is a bit sketchy on that

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Where did they play them

You clamoring for a better ooc schedule and then saying youd rather play coppin state than princeton in a 2 for 1 is kinda funny.

 

[bac2therac]

You clamoring for a better ooc schedule and then saying youd rather play coppin state than princeton in a 2 for 1 is kinda funny.

You schedule based on risk reward and Princeton is not worth it

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

You schedule based on risk reward and Princeton is not worth it

Lay out your ideal ooc 10 games for me

 

[bac2therac]

3 team neutral site tourney not one with dregs

Shu
Providence type

4 Q4 cupcakes automatic wins...dont have to be 330-365

2...Identify schools like Umass Lowel that will be q3 amd fill the schedule out that way and Rutgers was never in danger of losing that game despite the final score

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

3 team neutral site tourney not one with dregs

Shu
Providence type

4 Q4 cupcakes automatic wins...dont have to be 330-365

2...Identify schools like Umass Lowel that will be q3 amd fill the schedule out that way and Rutgers was never in danger of losing that game despite the final score

So play q3 umass lowell over q3 (at home) q2 (at jadwin) princeton? LOL.

Fyi princetons kenpom (easier to look up than NET) the past 5 seasons
2019- 175
2020- 150
2021- n/a
2022- 107
2023- 99