RU v Lock Haven match thread

[ScottRU93]

Also not sure Gross qualifies for Natls. I think rest can based on bid amounts. Think Suriano and Lewis are sure fire AAs if Lewis fixes weight issues. Think Delvecchio and Gravina are right there and depends on draw and health of Gravina. And of course Ash if he wrestles and is healthy. Don’t see anyone else placing. Hopefully rest make it and gain valuable experience.

Btw, I am super impressed with Shoop. I don’t see how he doesn’t place in Natls. Kid is a stud. What a tilt he has.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Good first post hope you post more often.

Can you refresh my memory of when Chance beat IMar at University Nationals? Don't remember that happening, at least not the last two years.

This is splitting hairs here (I use D1CW rankings), Haines was ranked #9 in 2014 and Ashnault was ranked #8. Also Chance was the best "High School" wrestler that year but not the #1 recruit, that would have been Kyle Snyder, who didn't wrestle in HS his senior year. Again that is splitting hairs but just want the facts straight and possibly other ranking services had it different so you may be right about Haines and Ash.

Appreciate that, thanks!

The splitting hairs is appreciated actually. If I am going to say something on the internet, where 95% of the world's accumulated knowledge is at my finger tips, I should take the time to google. Minor errors for sure, but the concept is important.

In that spirit (and I can't believe I missed it) IMAR DID beat chance. My mistake. Chance took 2nd.

 

[ScarletGrapfan]

I am disappointed in how Grello wrestled. Given the chance to put a grasp on starting spot he was way to conservative. He took the guy down fairly easily in 3rd. Should have had many more shots. That’s not B10 wrestling. Hindsight is 20/20 but think we would have had chance at more points with Pagano at 174, Gravina at 184 and Mulligan at 97. Thought JVB gave his all against a superior opponent. And also thought Deluca also wrestled very flat. I think sometimes when you don’t get that takedown in 1st 1-2 minutes you get complacent and begin to wrestle for the close win and no mistakes but that doesn’t cut it in b10 and Natls.

Also not sure Gross qualifies for Natls. I think rest can based on bid amounts. Think Suriano and Lewis are sure fire AAs if Lewis fixes weight issues. Think Delvecchio and Gravina are right there and depends on draw and health of Gravina. And of course Ash if he wrestles and is healthy. Don’t see anyone else placing. Hopefully rest make it and gain valuable experience.

Btw, I am super impressed with Shoop. I don’t see how he doesn’t place in Natls. Kid is a stud. What a tilt he has.

I am hoping Grello just had first match jitters. He pinned that kid two weeks ago and Pagano beat that kid 7-0 last week in the finals of the Lock Haven tourn. I thought DeLuca would win that match(Perry is tuff but thought he would win).

I dont think Shoop places, he is a bad matchup for MVB. Shoop got majored from an ok Kent State wrestler and lost 7-1 to Lehigh.

 

[bigmatt718]

I am hoping Grello just had first match jitters. He pinned that kid two weeks ago and Pagano beat that kid 7-0 last week in the finals of the Lock Haven tourn. I thought DeLuca would win that match(Perry is tuff but thought he would win).

I dont think Shoop places, he is a bad matchup for MVB. Shoop got majored from an ok Kent State wrestler and lost 7-1 to Lehigh.

Ash would house Shoop.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

We’re maybe 1/4th of way inti season and making NCAA predictions? Okay! [thumb2]

I’m more concerned with the fact that we LOST to an unranked program. I realize no Ash or Lewis but WTF???!!!

 

[Abro1975]

The sad fact is in College Wrestling the Dual season is just a warm up for March when you have the Conference Tournys followed by the NCAA tourney.

An OOC , away match is of very low importance. I'm sure Lewis will wrestle against Iowa, and we may see Ashnault in January if he isn't granted a 6th season. Lewis has only wrestled 1 college match in 2 seasons so far, while wrestling a lot in U-23 qualifying and then the championships in Poland. Missed 3 OOC college matches this year. Goodale will have to either let him wrestle 165 until March, or he may miss more I guess. Thing is he was able to make 70Kg (154.3 pounds) for the U-23 but missing 157 for the team that gives him a schollie (not sure how much, though). I love his style and aggressiveness, hope to see him next Friday either at 157 or 165.

At the Cliff Keene Tourney the Cornell freshman Yianni just upset #1 Bryce Meredith at 133.

 

[koleszar]

We’re maybe 1/4th of way inti season and making NCAA predictions? Okay! [thumb2]

I’m more concerned with the fact that we LOST to an unranked program. I realize no Ash or Lewis but WTF???!!!

Look at it this way. That's like playing football without 20% of your starters. Also we're starting to move past the relevance of dual meet record. Like @BanjoSaysWoof and @Abro1975 stated, they were originally a nice way to get positive momentum going for the program. Now they're becoming more of a warm up for B1G tourney and Nationals. It's the natural evolution of the program. While the duals are fun, in reality March is what counts.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Look at it this way. That's like playing football without 20% of your starters. Also we're starting to move past the relevance of dual meet record. Like @BanjoSaysWoof and @Abro1975 stated, they were originally a nice way to get positive momentum going for the program. Now they're becoming more of a warm up for B1G tourney and Nationals. It's the natural evolution of the program. While the duals are fun, in reality March is what counts.

Okay was thinking about that after I posted; makes sense abd all for it!

 

[wngarbarini]

Meredith is 141.

 

[PhilaPhans]

Wrestling a healthy Ash and Lewis is like a crazy point swing. Yes we lost a Match we could have won. No, I just don’t care about the loss. I do care that we aren’t nearly as strong as I would hope for at certain weights.

 

[bigmatt718]

Wrestling a healthy Ash and Lewis is like a crazy point swing. Yes we lost a Match we could have won. No, I just don’t care about the loss. I do care that we aren’t nearly as strong as I would hope for at certain weights.

It would have been a blowout win in favor of RU if Ash and Lewis wrestled.

 

[PhilaPhans]

Wrestling a healthy Ash and Lewis is like a crazy point swing. Yes we lost a Match we could have won. No, I just don’t care about the loss. I do care that we aren’t nearly as strong as I would hope for at certain weights.

It would have been a blowout win in favor of RU if Ash and Lewis wrestled.

I mean they still get some major bonus points. But we turn losses into our own bonus points and may not have to move the whole top of the lineup around.

BTW, was that strategic (would have been done with those 2) or solely due to those guys being out and needing to max points?

 

[matter7172]

No shot this team beats Iowa. Lots of problems on this squad. Uninspired and unconditioned. Got our asses handed to us. Also Lewis inexplicably missing weight twice and I’m afraid this is much more than just a “weight issue”. Thank goodness we have Suriano, but he can’t be happy with the state of the program

No offense, but I don't think Suriano is really that concerned with the state of the program. He seems to be pretty centered on the state of Suriano.

 

[RU Diesel07110]

Tuned in after 25 & 33. I could see a guy here or there being flat but not the majority of the lineup- think of as indvidual sport. Gave up arms/wrists too easy, way too many tilts. Alot of problems on bottom. Just seemed to lack urgency.

 

[RUSpider]

Four observations:

1. Team looked flat and tired. Either over trained or not conditioned. Knowing Goodale's self admitted history I would go with over trained.

2. Bumping up one wrestler is almost unheard of in college wrestling. Rutgers bumped up wrestlers to 157, 184 and 197 this is unprecedented at the college level. At a minimum Rutgers left bonus points on table by bumping 184 to 197.

3. They better quickly sought out who is going 157 and 165. Not fair to the current 165 and the rest of the team. If a wrestler refuses to make a certain weight action needs to be taken.

4. Was anything learned from the Army Invitational? Rutgers and Lock Haven had three rematches at 141, 174 and 285. Rutgers wrestlers at 141 and 285 had identical losing results. While Lock Haven's 174 had a much different result than Army Invitational going from getting pinned to losing a one point match. Appears that Lock Haven staff and wrestler made the right adjustments.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

Four observations:

1. Team looked flat and tired. Either over trained or not conditioned. Knowing Goodale's self admitted history I would go with over trained.

2. Bumping up one wrestler is almost unheard of in college wrestling. Rutgers bumped up wrestlers to 157, 184 and 197 this is unprecedented at the college level. At a minimum Rutgers left bonus points on table by bumping 184 to 197.

3. They better quickly sought out who is going 157 and 165. Not fair to the current 165 and the rest of the team. If a wrestler refuses to make a certain weight action needs to be taken.

4. Was anything learned from the Army Invitational? Rutgers and Lock Haven had three rematches at 141, 174 and 285. Rutgers wrestlers at 141 and 285 had identical losing results. While Lock Haven's 174 had a much different result than Army Invitational going from getting pinned to losing a one point match. Appears that Lock Haven staff and wrestler made the right adjustments.

This is ridiculous. What "adjustments" should have been made at 141 and 285 the Rutgers did not make?

 

[PhilaPhans]

Four observations:
2. Bumping up one wrestler is almost unheard of in college wrestling. Rutgers bumped up wrestlers to 157, 184 and 197 this is unprecedented at the college level. At a minimum Rutgers left bonus points on table by bumping 184 to 197.

Goodale has done this numerous times in the past, esp. with Gravina.

 

[RUSpider]

Goodale has done this numerous times in the past, esp. with Gravina.

Rutgers is the only Big10 program that bumps wrestlers.

 

[PhilaPhans]

Rutgers is the only Big10 program that bumps wrestlers.

I guarantee you're full of it. Of course it's not common, but people will do it now and then around the country.

 

[ScarletGrapfan]

Rutgers is the only Big10 program that bumps wrestlers.

Not really true. Easy to say after the match that the strategy did not work. After 174, RU not only needed to win both 84 and 97 they needed bonus. Coaches felt that Pagano and Gravina up a weight gave them the best chance for both. Mulligan just wrestled LH 197 and needed a late 2 to win 3-1(so this was hardly a lock win). And 157 was not a bump, they had no one else to put in.
Would you consider Penn State wrestling Bo Pipher at 165 a bump? He has wrestled all his matches at 149, then wrestled 165 against Lehigh. Sometimes you have to throw a guy out there.

 

[PhilaPhans]

Outside of the big, J'Den Cox gets bumped up to heavyweight. Helped them beat Cornell one year.

I'm sure I can find more if I had more time to look.

The main point being ... you're wrong.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

Of course he is wrong. Just a Goodale hater looking to make his bones. Really, I am in the camp of who cares....we took a shot at winning the dual, which is what I wanted to see. The wrestlers faced tough competition, which is all that matters. Its the first week of December for crying out loud. Bumping up Pagano and Gravina is not hurting anyone. Both are very experienced, and both of them, along with Grello, got the wins. We took our best shot bor bonus points, and it didn't work out... so what.

The only things that bothered me on Friday were individual performances from DeLuca and MVB, along with Lewis missing weight, which is a huge issue if its not been okayed by the staff and is going to continue. Hopefully all are fixed on Friday, with better efforts from DeLuca and MVB, and Lewis making weight to take on Kemerer where we need him most.

 

[obrats]

Of course he is wrong. Just a Goodale hater looking to make his bones. Really, I am in the camp of who cares....we took a shot at winning the dual, which is what I wanted to see. The wrestlers faced tough competition, which is all that matters. Its the first week of December for crying out loud. Bumping up Pagano and Gravina is not hurting anyone. Both are very experienced, and both of them, along with Grello, got the wins. We took our best shot bor bonus points, and it didn't work out... so what.

The only things that bothered me on Friday were individual performances from DeLuca and MVB, along with Lewis missing weight, which is a huge issue if its not been okayed by the staff and is going to continue. Hopefully all are fixed on Friday, with better efforts from DeLuca and MVB, and Lewis making weight to take on Kemerer where we need him most.

Agree 100% with first paragraph.

Mostly agree with the 2nd paragraph, but I am giving MVB a pass. As ScarletGrapFan said above Shoop is a real bad matchup for MVB. If they wrestle 10 times I see Shoop wining all 10 times as opposed to say Ryan Diehl, who is ranked 12th, I think MVB can get 5 matches out of 10 from him. Now that being said if he comes out against Iowa and looks like he did against Lock Haven I will be concerned. But I don't think he will.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

Agree 100% with first paragraph.

Mostly agree with the 2nd paragraph, but I am giving MVB a pass. As ScarletGrapFan said above Shoop is a real bad matchup for MVB. If they wrestle 10 times I see Shoop wining all 10 times as opposed to say Ryan Diehl, who is ranked 12th, I think MVB can get 5 matches out of 10 from him. Now that being said if he comes out against Iowa and looks like he did against Lock Haven I will be concerned. But I don't think he will.

Interesting. I admittedly do not know much about Shoop, and I guess wrongly assumed the Invitational result was an outlier.

Speaking of Iowa, I don't see how anyone can put MVB down for a loss at this point, regardless. Did you happen to see Turk in the Illinois match? He did not look impressive - at all. He was getting manhandled early and only made it close after the freshman Carr gassed out at the half way point. It may be a toss match on Friday, but MVB definitely in it to win it.

 

[R U Crazy]

https://www.wrestlestat.com/wrestler/39682/shoop-kyle/profile

38 wins as a freshman at 149 (he did loss 17)
Very experienced Sophomore.
I will be interested to see how he does later this year. My thoughts is 2 or 3 wins in NCAA.

 

[ScarletGrapfan]

https://www.wrestlestat.com/wrestler/39682/shoop-kyle/profile

38 wins as a freshman at 149 (he did loss 17)
Very experienced Sophomore.
I will be interested to see how he does later this year. My thoughts is 2 or 3 wins in NCAA.

Like I said, I just think it is a bad matchup for Van Brill. I dont think there is any way Shoop wins 2 or 3 matches at NCAA. 141 is one of the deepest weights and he has gotten teched by Nick Lee, Majored by the Kent State kid who is not ranked nor will be ranked and lost 7-1 Karam who is ranked 20th.

 

[Harleyr1]

Four observations:

1. Team looked flat and tired. Either over trained or not conditioned. Knowing Goodale's self admitted history I would go with over trained.

2. Bumping up one wrestler is almost unheard of in college wrestling. Rutgers bumped up wrestlers to 157, 184 and 197 this is unprecedented at the college level. At a minimum Rutgers left bonus points on table by bumping 184 to 197.

3. They better quickly sought out who is going 157 and 165. Not fair to the current 165 and the rest of the team. If a wrestler refuses to make a certain weight action needs to be taken.

4. Was anything learned from the Army Invitational? Rutgers and Lock Haven had three rematches at 141, 174 and 285. Rutgers wrestlers at 141 and 285 had identical losing results. While Lock Haven's 174 had a much different result than Army Invitational going from getting pinned to losing a one point match. Appears that Lock Haven staff and wrestler made the right adjustments.

I 100% agree ..he wanted 157 to start ..then gets lazy and wants 165 whenever he feels like it ..what message does that send to allow him to do that ..I don't care how good he is...to have JVB at RL beckon call from match to match and week to week would be a travesty ...

 

[Harleyr1]

Of course he is wrong. Just a Goodale hater looking to make his bones. Really, I am in the camp of who cares....we took a shot at winning the dual, which is what I wanted to see. The wrestlers faced tough competition, which is all that matters. Its the first week of December for crying out loud. Bumping up Pagano and Gravina is not hurting anyone. Both are very experienced, and both of them, along with Grello, got the wins. We took our best shot bor bonus points, and it didn't work out... so what.

The only things that bothered me on Friday were individual performances from DeLuca and MVB, along with Lewis missing weight, which is a huge issue if its not been okayed by the staff and is going to continue. Hopefully all are fixed on Friday, with better efforts from DeLuca and MVB, and Lewis making weight to take on Kemerer where we need him most.

Mark your own words ...who misses weight with coaches permission ....you said right here it was a huge issue ....try keeping track of what you say before trashing someone else for saying the exact same thing ...own it

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Mark your own words ...who misses weight with coaches permission ....you said right here it was a huge issue ....try keeping track of what you say before trashing someone else for saying the exact same thing ...own it

Its college wrestling and we are spectators, not participants. Way too many people's blood pressure seeming to rise over what really is trivial. Let's enjoy tonight's 90 minute distraction from reality and support our team.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

Mark your own words ...who misses weight with coaches permission ....you said right here it was a huge issue ....try keeping track of what you say before trashing someone else for saying the exact same thing ...own it

"if it has not been okayed by the staff" Or are we ignoring that part of my post?

Its not necessarily that the staff gave him permission to "miss" weight. But Richie is so talented, it may very well be that the staff is letting him move up if he wants or needs to. I don't know either way, so I decline to attribute any ill motives, unless someone states affirmatively that its a problem.

You can have your axe to grind. I just dont see the need for the negative speculation if you are a fan.