Yes great spot for someone who is looking for playing time rather than winning.
Basketball Rutgers Basketball wing Gavin Griffiths enters Transfer Portal
- Thread starter Alec Crouthamel
- Start date
excuse me. 1000 other kids didn't make the commitment comments he did. He owns that. Good luck to your guy. It's probably a win-win here.
games are won and lost on the court. Providence kind of won a lot more than we did last year.
Providence College makes sense for Gavin, just as UConn made sense for Cam.
Gavin wants to maximize his chances to play pro ball and sees a better path at Providence coached by Kim English than at Rutgers under Pike.
In addition, Gavin’s family can attend all his home games, his conference tournament games, and Gavin will have more opportunities to play at Madison Square Garden.
Pike also needs to explain why he failed to develop and retain the top recruit in his 20 year head coaching career.
Gavin wants to maximize his chances to play pro ball and sees a better path at Providence coached by Kim English than at Rutgers under Pike.
In addition, Gavin’s family can attend all his home games, his conference tournament games, and Gavin will have more opportunities to play at Madison Square Garden.
Pike also needs to explain why he failed to develop and retain the top recruit in his 20 year head coaching career.
Not just last year. In past 10 seasons excluding Covid season, Providence has won 20+ 8 times and made 7 NCAA tournaments.
In fairness, to accumulate those wins they did play two league games against 3 win DePaul (whole different level of bad), and 3 games against Georgetown. We played 2 games against Michigan, but no other BIG teams were comparable to those. So that explains 3 of their “extra” wins.
Id rather have him explain why he played Gavin when he wasnt ready and had better (not great) options on the bench. Some of those options which embodied more the foundation of the program.
How would have the Princeton game gone if Gavin never played?
He’s had exactly two players who were considered “top talent” in recruiting rankings. Cliff I would consider to be both developed and retained. So he’s 1 for 2 at worst. And if Gavin never pans out anywhere that would be 1 for 1
I'm very sour on losing him but Pike won't have much to say. But if he were forthcoming and honest, it would be:
" last season our ball-dominant, selfish guards didn't provide any semblance of team play and scoring chances for others, and that's unlikely to change so we understand his decision to leave for a place where he will have an actual opportunity to develop and shine."
Are you guys suggesting that the reason he left was to move on to a team more likely to be successful next season? That seems like an extreme reach and this decision in my view shoots down any and all conclusion that he left seeking a blue blood opportunity and a big NIL deal. He clearly left for PT. Providence played 5 guys 30+ minutes which clearly indicates they didn’t have much confidence in the depth on their bench. Two of those guys graduate.
As a transfer looking for playing time, this seems like a more appealing landing spot than remaining at a place where a +12 ppg guard is returning, a 21 ppg transfer guard was already brought in, the numbers 2/3 frosh recruits and projected lottery picks are coming in, and another sophomore guard that beat you out last season is returning. We’ll bring in more transfers and so will Providence I’m sure but clearly right now there is more room for Gavin to earn minutes there next season.
The Big East also got only 3 Dance bids to the Big Ten's 6, so that tells you a lot about the competition in that conference and how those wins don't mean as much or compare. And what they did 10 years ago is meaningless, sorry to those trying to pump up Providence
Wow, same old broken tune, that argument doesn't hold any water, give it a rest!
He would have gotten plenty of PT here next year and likely would have started, or at worst would have been first off the bench. I think the issue for him was schoolyard unstructured offense and scoring opportunities. Our guards didn't share and create scoring opportunities for others. Off-ball guys were largely afterthoughts. Will it be different next year ?
if you don't understand that the offense was little more than having the guards beat their defenders 1 on 1 or via high ball screens then you simply don't know what you are watching.
The guard play is the only reason the offense ranked near the bottom of 350 or so D1 teams. This is fact.
How about Pike explaining it this way....
The concept of development at the end of the day is something that is jointly owned by the player and coaching staff. A coach can tutor, teach, mentor etc. But the player has to be the one to listen, learn and train repetitively to develop his craft. A player has to also prepare in the offseason both physically and mentally regardless of year and come in ready to play to the best of his abilities. Further, although Gavin was the highest level recruit in 20 year head coaching career, he was positionally recruited over the following cycle by an even higher level recruit (Ace).
Good luck to Gavin. He will likely thrive with further maturity and honing of his craft at this level.
If he plays like he did last year he would not have gotten playing time at Rutgers, nor will he anywhere else. You keep blaming the guards for his poor shooting, but are stuck with the reality that Hyatt shot the ball better with our guards last year than he did with Geo and Paul distributing.
I'm not blaming guards for his poor shooting per se. I'm blaming them, or the offense Pike has them play, for never once getting him wide open uncontested looks like you see Iowa, Purdue, UConn and most other good teams get their shooters. Extra passes, skip passes, etc. Iowa's motion is designed for the 4th, 5th and sometimes the 6th pass in a set to yield an open shot. That is simply not our design. Our design relies on athletic ability (Cliff, Simpson, JWill, etc) rather than advanced offense.
Our offense isn't pass-oriented (instead, iso or ball screen), or at most seeks to set up just one pass to the corner for Hyatt, Oskar or GG to run baseline to catch and shoot. It is a major limitation and GG couldn't excel in that system.
He was just a bad fit with our brand of guard play.
Our offense isn't pass-oriented (instead, iso or ball screen), or at most seeks to set up just one pass to the corner for Hyatt, Oskar or GG to run baseline to catch and shoot. It is a major limitation and GG couldn't excel in that system.
He was just a bad fit with our brand of guard play.
He bricked plenty of wide open shots. Dozens of them. This just isn’t true.
nope...almost all contested, defender close outs. He was a weak defender, sure. His offensive strengths were not tapped.
Gavin obviously has lots of potential, but lets not dismiss the possibiility that he turns out to be a straight up bust. I'd say that outcome is a 30-40% chance based on what I saw this year.
Pike needs to explain shyt to you. No one cares about your BS . Send a note to Gavin and ask that he explains it to you. He's gone and not part of RU --can you do likewise and we won't ask you why we'll just be happy you left.
Not sure what you were watching. Gavin had some set plays off of inbounds that he missed. He also took many inadvisable contested shots or shots from way out by the logo instead of looking to move the ball. He also missed open looks (sure the defender may have been trying to close out late - but that is still basically how an open look works). He did not rotate on offense quickly or with efficiency, also did not come through screens correctly and sharply. He appears to have a lot of talent - but both his offensive and defensive acumen needs to be sharpened. He was often lost on both offense and defense in terms of positioning. If he is serious about wanting a professional basketball career - this will come with his dedication to practice & drilling.
I know your schtick is to come to these boards to continually spew negative about Schiano and Pike (as well as refer to yourself in the 3rd person). But in the end, players are the ones on the floor that have to execute and perform. If anything, Pike gave Gavin too much slack. There were times watching him this year that he did not seem to know what he was doing at all compared to his teammates and opponents. He was likely given minutes because of his potential and the level he was brought in at. As fans, we mostly gave him a break as well - hoping he would grow in future years @ RU. However the lesson for Pike is that these kids are fickle and choose to leave anyway in an instant - regardless of keeping them in or trying to make them happy......when they likely should have been benched....especially earlier in the season/conference play.
highly unlikely a bust ... too athletic and too skilled. But possibly (`25%) not a major contributor. I think he will be, however.
all year there were only two inbounds plays you describe. he made 1. both with a defender in his face.
Shelby is not anti-Pike. Shelby thinks he's a very good coach overall. I just think his preference for top defenders & athletes like Cliff, Simpson, Davis & McConnell undermines offensive production and team play. It can't be any clearer.
Who's Pike's best-ever shooter been ? Hyatt ?
Team defense, yes. Team offense, no. Different skill sets. Few players excel at both. Cliff is a great defender but can't even dribble once. Remember when he tried to dribble on a fast break ? Almost felt bad for him.
But, yes, Shelby doesn't think Schiano is a good football coach. RU could do a lot better for a lot less $$.
@Shelby65 has been spouting this nonsense nonstop. He either doesn’t watch the games and so doesn’t realize there were plenty of open shots or he just has a completely unrealistic definition of “open” that requires no defenders to be anywhere on screen or something.
As part of our non-conference schedule.
In terms of win count, we had 2 opportunities in League play against teams Iike that. They had 5 as they drew Georgetown in the first round of their conference tournament.
actually, that's very keen Flu. First time for everything.
Yes, to me 'wide open' means just that. watch any of the aforementioned teams. Multiple stand still, all-alone jumpers after multiple passes, passes to shooter's pocket and time to shoot. other players often get absolutely uncontested wide open shots that we never get. never. A few of those a game boosts %s a lot, as you would know.
Martini wouldn't get those here like he did at Princeton, which obviously runs real offense.
so you tell me, why has Pike never had a top shooter ?
Pike doesn’t need to explain anything. He gave GG amble opportunities and asked him to stay another year.
But GG was lost out there. My lasting memories are him losing his man on defense and then running towards him in the corner while the guy drains a three. Happened every game.
But GG was lost out there. My lasting memories are him losing his man on defense and then running towards him in the corner while the guy drains a three. Happened every game.
Shelby doesn't watch the games as GG airballed several OOB plays run specifically for him. I know because I sat there wondering why we continue to run stuff if the kid isn't even going to draw some iron. Shelby commenting on Cliff dribbling is a nonsensical point. Shelby is a 3rd person nitwit. It can't be any clearer.
Cam Spencer shot 43.4% in our offense. RHJ shot 39.8%. It’s not the difference in guards as you first tried to say because as has been pointed out, the one shooter who was around for both shot better last season (Hyatt).
Gavin stunk at D. Derek and Davis beat him out for PT because of that end. If anything he’s progressed to servicable. D certainly not a strength, nor is rebounding. Your argument here is, what - Gavin would’ve been a stud for us and a clear starter next season if only we had found ways for him to get more 100% uncontested 3s????
He wasn’t good from the foul line either (unguarded) but forget that. Do you realize how ridiculous it sounds to define his untapped potential as needing consistent wide open looks without even a close out defender. Nobody gets those regularly at the BIG level. And even then - do you really know for sure he would’ve been “elite” at making them. Isn’t the HS three point line closer in? Just throwing it out there but maybe that was an adjustment for him. Who knows? Could be so many things. But he was indesputably bad at so many things last season - I’m not seeing how your concluding he’d easily be a starter or a heavily played 6 man next season based on what he showed this season. There’s a reason he only played 17 mpg and no, it’s not because of our terrible guards. They played over him!
Hell yes some offenses are designed to get shooters wide open, uncontested shots every game, just not our offense. Never. Our offense doesn't operate that way.
No, probably not a stud or elite shooter but certainly more than adequate and a likely 6th man at worst. Am not making excuses for the FTs but still better than Davis at the line.
The difference last year was, Paul shared the ball and Cam was an experienced excellent offensive player at all three levels, who btw was a 10 ppg player his first two years at Loyola.
This year with Simpson and JWill taking turns running point, and Davis forcing shots too, GG was mostly excluded.
Super point. Cam's 43.4% is the best in Rutgers history, and Cam qualifies for the record book because he exceeded the minimum 100 attempts.* Same coaching staff. Similar competition.
Flashback - Here is what TKR posters had to say on May 19, 2023, the day TKR reported Cam's portal entrance.
"I’m not that upset about losing Spencer...can’t create his own shot. Means it’s easy to guard against him"
"RU already added Noah and Gavin. That makes this a better shooting team than last year already. Simpson should shoot better too"
"The 20th ranked recruit in the country is going to have trouble replacing Cam? Get real"
* Edited to note Cam's 43.4% has been left out of the Rutgers record book for career numbers, despite Cam exceeding the minimum 100 attempts.
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I’m not sure what your point is. Mine is that we’ve had many players shoot a heck of a lot better than Gavin did in our offense. Even last year, Noah was 35.4% from 3. That’s a good deal better than what Gavin delivered. Why can’t people admit he just didn’t have a good year? I don’t understand.
Stop trying to rewrite history. You are wrong. He shot 32% on the year for ****s sake. Not good.
He probably thought he had to shoot at the first touch on a possession because he knew he would never see the ball again in that possession. Our guards were selfish, Mag was selfish and Cliff held onto the ball too long.
Gavin rarely got open looks.
None of us can say what Gavin's thoughts and motivations will be but if I had to bet on it, I believe he will turn out to be a 15-20 point a game scorer at some major conference school.
