Rutgers vs Michigan State at 6pm 1/20 game thread
- Thread starter ScarletteK80
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Just a bad game by just about the whole team, except for Arella.
Getting killed in rebounding make the poor offense even worse.
Especially disappointing to see the 3 for 14 in the 3department with one player make 3 0f 6 and the rest 0-8.
The complaints are valid when bashing how this game turned out. Even the one that implied this game was foretold the way the team had been playing.
Team can win with a good D, rebounding and low turnovers , but still needs a half-way decent O and one player doing most of the offense (10-24 FG) while the rest just don't do their part (11-35).
I had said after the last game there were things that needed to be worked on, looks like the improvement needed didn't happen and the reason why MSU kicked Butt.
Getting killed in rebounding make the poor offense even worse.
Especially disappointing to see the 3 for 14 in the 3department with one player make 3 0f 6 and the rest 0-8.
The complaints are valid when bashing how this game turned out. Even the one that implied this game was foretold the way the team had been playing.
Team can win with a good D, rebounding and low turnovers , but still needs a half-way decent O and one player doing most of the offense (10-24 FG) while the rest just don't do their part (11-35).
I had said after the last game there were things that needed to be worked on, looks like the improvement needed didn't happen and the reason why MSU kicked Butt.
Still got some games to play and team get it together.
So the first round loss talk might go out the window.
I think some might have not given RU a chance to get to the first round before the season started.
CVS might not coach a great O, but she's been a winner all of her coaching career (a few non-winning seasons) so I won't count her out of the 2nd round before the first round matchup is played.
The sky isn't falling because a few dark clouds have dimmed the visibility when looking forward to making the tourney and looking good playing on the way there.
I'll let others find fault, I will remain optimistic.
So the first round loss talk might go out the window.
I think some might have not given RU a chance to get to the first round before the season started.
CVS might not coach a great O, but she's been a winner all of her coaching career (a few non-winning seasons) so I won't count her out of the 2nd round before the first round matchup is played.
The sky isn't falling because a few dark clouds have dimmed the visibility when looking forward to making the tourney and looking good playing on the way there.
I'll let others find fault, I will remain optimistic.
Just once, I have to say it -
You want things you will never have with a CVS team.
Offense is never going to be a thing of beauty. Defense is always going to be primary. Freshmen are almost never going to get much of a shot at playing while they are freshmen. Teams will never depend primarily on the 3 (I repeat what has been said in the past, on average RU teams have been better from the 3 than many give credit, but only as a small part of the game plan). You will not likely get your pony-tail - to the extent you mean like some other teams have - because they are defensive liabilities often. They don't have to be, but are somewhat likely to be. Have seen this on several teams.
On a macro level, and I have said this in the past - the chance of winning a National Championship with Rutgers style of play is slim. The ability to be competitive with top teams is not unrealistic.
I have always found this to be enough. Even now, I would suggest Rutgers could be anywhere from a first round exit to a sweet 16 team, because the style of play always gives a shot. Of course, if they don't execute, you are correct.
not to mention we had a 14-4 turnover advantage but shot shot 35.6% 3 of 14 from 3 and they shot 9 of 19.
That's well said and fair. But to be really fair if THAT"S all you want from Rutgers Women's Basketball and a hall of Fame Coach..I'm disappointed. That is really settling.
The mens team is clearly a defense first team, and they are really good at it. The difference is that their offense is a shared thing which makes opposing teams responsible for covering just about everybody. We often see many of them in double digits without any consistent #1.
The women have one player that needs to be defended. There is really nobody else who is going to scare anybody. Pretty easy plan to defend against us.
The women have one player that needs to be defended. There is really nobody else who is going to scare anybody. Pretty easy plan to defend against us.
Michigan State hit their three's and out rebounded us 2-1. Pathetic performance while playing for a share of 1st place.
Excellent sober post. One of the best and truthful posts yet about C Viv. strengths and weaknesses. Nicely done. If I have to quibible with anything you said, I wish none of us had to settle for this "almost" good enough. It's why I believe C Viv. has never won a championship. IMO, she needed a head assistant coach that understands offense to help her to finally get to the promise land. And it could start now and next year with the new crop of top recruits and give them playing time as freshmen so when they mature to sophomore's they're ready to succeed.
Let Tim Eastman have final say on using the 55. He used it all last year when he replaced CVS. It seemed the team enjoyed playing for him. I do not get that feeling for the team towards CVS. Offense just stands around and has zero movement.
I agree we have been mired in mediocrety for years now and there is really no improvement in site. We have seen this scenario with a top recruiting class coming in but without any semblance of offensive coaching and as we have freshman don't seem to be able to come in and help we will just be in the same place next year and as stated above if getting into the NCAA and losing in the first couple of rounds is what people want than they will have that and that's the cycle we have been on for awhile now.
Amazing how a few games ago, she was being saluted for getting the team to the top of the B1G. Everyone was happy she was back and better than ever - bringing in the #8 recruiting class. And now with a single loss, all the same voices come out bashing.
I hope Coach Pikiell doesn't lose another game or he may be next. This Women's team was not picked to finish in the top half of the B1G preseason. Let's pump the brakes on this. It's one loss to a decent and usually solid B1G team who happened to hit 9-19 from 3 on a night where we couldn't shoot or rebound.
Nothing is ever as good or bad as it looks the moment the event occurs.
I'm going to Ann Arbor and hoping for the turnaround. Lots of games left and we are in a tie for 3rd. We could be Indiana who have 3 B1G losses already.
I hope Coach Pikiell doesn't lose another game or he may be next. This Women's team was not picked to finish in the top half of the B1G preseason. Let's pump the brakes on this. It's one loss to a decent and usually solid B1G team who happened to hit 9-19 from 3 on a night where we couldn't shoot or rebound.
Nothing is ever as good or bad as it looks the moment the event occurs.
I'm going to Ann Arbor and hoping for the turnaround. Lots of games left and we are in a tie for 3rd. We could be Indiana who have 3 B1G losses already.
It was a disappointing loss, no doubt. Not surprising, and certainly something they can bounce back from. But Stringer's post-game comments about some of the bench players not knowing the plays (or "patterns" as she likes to call them) is a concern. Maybe her "patterns" are just too complicated? Maybe the coaching staff can simplify a few things for the newer players. It's baffling why some of these major high school stars can't contribute more...is her system just too difficult to learn?
Being stubborn I have refused to think your way.
But the way Rutgers is playing, and has for a number of years, must agree an offensive minded assistant is a must if this program is to return to elite status.
Defense alone won't do it, even if good rebounding is thrown in.
D & Rebounding might help take RU to the sweet 16, but doubt any further and even reaching the S-16 might be a stretch without a decent O.
Another fair post imo....but its not just last night but PSU effort and questions on player develoment now surfacing. I'll admit the blown chance to get both teams top 25 soured me and it was just a terrible game and effort save AG.
But...as I said earlier lets see where it goes from here. Hoping it a wake-up call.
I said this to my wife last night. Let CVS recruit and rin things but let Tim coach the game. My comment might have been timed at the moment he jumped off the bench to coach last night. Just seeing CVS stand there kills me. They would make a great in game team imho.
Your comments are as predictable as you believe some of us are when we criticize the coach after a loss. This is a forum to discuss and debate not to just be cheerleaders, when we've played and coached the game and understand the talent that is on this team.
'67, I would rather discuss and debate with you common problems I and others see about this offense, which has been subpar for decades. The '55' worked decades ago, because the level of talent wasn't there yet with the opposition. Now, everyone has seen it and the better teams do a better job of combatting that. So with that said, C Viv. needs to implement an offense that scores more than what we've seen from a multitude of her teams over the years. Either Tim can install it or they need an outsider (I believe) who institutes an offense that screens more in the low and high posts, runs plays through certain women, passes the ball inside and out and looks for better cutting. I believe we have the talent to do all that instead of passing the ball around the perimeter or having Jordon occasionally screen for Arella or Sanders. Sorry, but that's not running an offense.
The other thing: I never read ANY input from you, regarding your thoughts about how this team can improve. Why the offense is so stagnant and only has one maybe two reliable scorers on the floor at any given time?
I can assure you, I and others that follow both teams closely, have criticized Pikiell many times for head scratching substitutions, defenses called, and yes, bad offense. Again, that's what these boards are for. They're for discussion and debate. If you want to just be a cheerleader and not discuss any of the flaws in her coaching, that's fine. But don't act as if your voice is the only voice that should matter here. We all want this team to succeed. Personally, I just think C Viv. year in and year out wastes really talented kids from being their best because she doesn't understand offense and the adjustments needed during a game to change the outcome.
It can't always be about the '55' as the answer. And you can't always make excuses about a team like MSU hitting 9-19 three point shots. They made those, because they passed the ball with good offensive movement to get open looks and we didn't defend very well. That MSU team was 2-7 on the road and 10-7 coming in. Let's not pretend that suddenly they're elite. They're not. And if we can't put the ball in the basket, at least we can defend well. And we didn't do that either. I think our team is more talented than they're showing and C Viv. is not getting all of the talent out of them.
BTW, there is no reason whatsoever that someone as talented as Davenport should not be contributing more. None. This notion that freshman are not able to compete right away because they're maybe not good on defense, is easily dispelled when you see players like Davenport as freshman, immediately contribute on UCONN, Oregon, UCLA, South Carolina and Stanford, just to name a few. I welcome your thoughts.
I guess my ideas of what a message board should be are different than yours. None of us is paid to make decisions or to coach any of our student athletes. Statements like "We played and coached the game and understand the talent that is on the team" doesn't make our decisions better than those whose job it is. Yes, I am a "cheerleader" because that's what my job is. I don't get paid to coach or recruit talent. Do I question some decisions during games? Absolutely but I will always support the players.
My biggest gripe about the posts today is that we are still 15-3 and in a tie for 3rd in the B1G. Yet rather than being supportive, all the negative perspectives come out lin torrents. These same posters could barely be seen during the run up to 15-2 record.
I used to post on here much more frequently but backed off because my views didn't match the views of the vocal group who find their way here only to find fault with the staff. So I keep my opinions to myself and try to be less involved here and more involved at games and other events that support the players.
Thanks
By the way, Michigan St was ranked #3 preseason and RU was nowhere to be found. And we are tied with the pre-season favorite to win the conference.
https://bigten.org/news/2019/10/21/maryland-tops-big-ten-womens-basketball-preseason-rankings.aspx
No mention of RU or any players on the Pre-season teams. Another poll had MSU as #2.
No matter what: this board needs everyone to express their opinion whenever they feel like it, like you just did right now and I try to say what I feel about CVS, the team and whatever the issue is that Ia feel is worth posting about.
Don't let differences of opinion keep you from expressing your thoughts or replying to RU WBB fans posting their thoughts here.
As for the ones that only show up when things go wrong, never mind them, they aren't worth wasting your time arguing with.
I tend to lean towards the positive myself, but respect the RU WBB fans that tend to be on the negative side but do praise when everything looks smooth .
Loosing a game and seeing complaints does get frustrating, but I feel most of the complaints are from fans that care and just see some things about the team things differently than me.
Wngarbarini we have discussed this ad nauseum that for some reason we can get 5 star recruits and they never seem to be able to perform in her "system" as freshman yet just look around the country look around the big 10 and you see freshman step right in and play and perform really well. I don't know what the answer is but I tell you one thing if she doesn't hire an offensive assistant coach nothing is going to change!!!
I don’t know how you don’t understand it, it was a horrible loss, plain and simple. I couldn’t believe what I was watching Monday evening. The team looked like it didn’t even wanna play and that they were just gonna go out there and win. Games like that, I don’t care what team it is or who the coach is, they deserve to get called out REGARDLESS of any other factors (see: good season, recruiting, etc etc). To get out-rebounded like that, at home, is flat-out embarrassing.
Thanks nuts people on this board get upset but there is nothing we want more than all of our teams to do well so lets hope somehow this ship can get righted but I am not sure it can be
I appreciate your response. Yes, we do have different understandings of what it means to be a fan. I will chearlead as much as anyone, and I still do. I love our players, win or lose, but let's remember, C Viv. is being paid at least $1 million a year to be at her best. When she's not, or when I or others don't see significant changes in an offense that looks predictable and not utilizing the overall talent of the team, I will criticize her for that. It doesn't mean I don't love her as a fan, because I do. She has left an indelible mark in the women's game as a great defensive mind and teacher of young women. I honor her for that.
But as an alum and fan, I have every right to comment about what I see are flaws in her coaching.
Also, yes, I knew MSU was picked higher than us, etc. But coming into this game, they were NOT better than us. In fact they were only 2-7 on the road. They also have key injuries. I get that. That still does not excuse the fact that we played so poorly, and especially at home. The game was embarrassing to watch. We have plenty of talent on this team, and it's up to our HC to get them to play as a cohesive unit where we have more than one maybe two possible players we can rely on to score.
In sum, I greatly appreciate your well thought out reply. I think we both want the same outcome: success and honor in doing that. I guess I'm more willing to be vocal (I do so even when they win) about bad play when I see it, than you do.
One sometimes overlooked result of the younger players not being able to run her system is that when a starter has a bad day there is effectively no depth. Compare to the men's team where players missing an assignment or not showing max effort quickly find a seat on the bench.
The number of wide open threes we gave up was mind boggling for a team known for defense.
But is our D recognized because we force turnovers when we trap against lesser teams.
And is our D when in the half-court is only so-so?
We were so fearful of their transition O that when we put up an outside shot our players were retreating to the backcourt before rim contact. Therefore little to no chance for an offensive rebound. Poor effort all around.
The number of wide open threes we gave up was mind boggling for a team known for defense.
But is our D recognized because we force turnovers when we trap against lesser teams.
And is our D when in the half-court is only so-so?
We were so fearful of their transition O that when we put up an outside shot our players were retreating to the backcourt before rim contact. Therefore little to no chance for an offensive rebound. Poor effort all around.
You probably won't reply because I am probably on your ignore list. I told you last post thought it was fair but I just don't see your point about the drive by bashers. I just thumbed thru this entire 5 page thread again and see all the usual names.
Personally I don't have the time to go to all the men's and women's home games. AND unless the women's game is on TV..BTN not plus I'm not going to see it or comment in the game thread.
I've personally been highly complimentary of CVS and the team ..not just this year but last as well. I've been following and supporting the women for 42 years. I've earned my right to complain and if I'm on. "your list". Well ok. There's a bunch of this same crew that post actively over on the guys threads in the same manner and its just not as sensitive there.
Drive by bashers? They're no fun. Just saying I didn't see it this time.
