Shaq C - hope he’s not the new...

[RU-ROCS]

Mensah is so different than Shaq. As a big man just giving us 5 fouls helps us.

Agreed. Mensah was a head-scratcher on so many levels - a kid with bad JUCO stats who had no other P5 offers. Carter, on the other hand, was a top-10 ranked JUCO big man. It's way too early to write him off. His lack of playing time is most likely due to the fact that both Doorson and Johnson are playing very well. As many have noted, Johnson has been an absolute revelation as a first-year big man!

 

[RutgHoops]

What happens when you put Shaq or Duke on them and they move to the perimeter? You wind up in the bonus with 14 minutes left in the half.

It should be very interesting how this plays out AND what does Pikiell do defensively when we have a stud perimeter player to defend (like Friday).

Our friendly debate about Sanders becomes very relevant in a few days. I get the sense on November 16 that Mathis is actually best equipped to guard a stud and he is no where even ready to do so.

Kind of my point. Those guys don't take outside shots. Goins (for example) has taken 24 total 3 pointers in three years and two games. These kind of guys are (better) Freeman's where if you put someone on them who can't physically matchup (which I don't feel Issa and Harper Jr can) they can go off. If you guard them with some size and strength you limit what they do.

It doesn't mean I don't think we can play those guys as stretch "4"'s in spots, just that there is zero ability for us to play a post "4" (outside of Eugene) in games against FDU and Drexel. Its clearly optimal to play the "stretch 4" against those types of teams. So I do not believe we have a true picture of the rotation.

Absorbing guard pressure and having someone who can (at least) make Herron work for his are the keys Friday night. I think we are the better team and are at home and I kind of feel we should win this one. SJU is only (really) 7 deep. If we outbound them like we should and absorb ball pressure we can win this one. SJU's backcourt is going to "get theirs" but if we limit everything else and come at them in waves.....To me, It's the kind of game where it can/will be close for 30 minutes and our size and depth is the difference in the last 10. Rutgers 78-SJU 69 as an early prediction.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I hear what you are saying, but if those guys are a part of the plan I think they would have received minutes. In game 1 Duocore did play in the 1st half.

My initial take based on Pikiell's actions and the limited minutes I saw is that Johnson is clearly an upgrade at most or all facets of the game and his minutes will be based on the amount of time he can be productive (18-25 range?). I have been saying we need a sample size and especially sample size against better competition so i understand I am being a little hypocritical.

I guess the debate really is how many minutes Harper (or Issa) can play as the "4". Can the disadvantage on the defensive end be made up on the offensive end? What do some of these new players look like when playing a top 50 school? Looking at the schedule we will not need to wait long for answers.

 

[RutgHoops]

Johnson looks really good. We agree that Doucoure/Shaq C aren't getting minutes at his expense. He looks too good. I just see Issa/Harper/Kiss/Mathis splitting the 80 minutes at the 2/3 as the competition gets better with very little time spent with three of them on the floor together. Time will tell.

Just checked the stats. Thru two games those four are averaging 83.5mpg. Plus McConnell has played 9 mpg. I think we agree Geo isn't playing 40. So there are 10-12mpg that (imo) are there for Shaq C/Doucoure in league.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If we don't go small then we do have 80 minutes for those 4 (Issa,Harper, Kiss and Mathis). I really like to think/hope those 4 contribute to the point where coach has to find them minutes.

I do think there will be a B1G player where Issa is the best option to defend that player
I think Mathis will end up being the best to guard most perimeter players (and he is no where near ready TODAY)
As long as Kiss is making perimeter shots he has to play. When he goes to the inevitable slump who knows.

Bottom line is we have never had these discussions. My hope is we still are having them in a month.

 

[RutgHoops]

...

I do think there will be a B1G player where Issa is the best option to defend that player
...

I think on Friday we see Issa on Herron with Kiss swung over to guard Simon. Issa is a plus defender on wings. I think that's the kind of player we see him guard all season.

At one point I felt bad for that kid on Drexel who Thiam was guarding. He had no chance. None.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

The days of playing 2 on 5 or 3 on 5 are over for RU....it's rare that a team has 5 scorers on the court, including St Johns....and RU isn't going to matchup well with everyone.

The keys aren't what we believe them to be anymore. Teams actually have to adjust to RU having 4 or 5 passing and scoring threats on the court. It doesn't mean RU gets whatever shot they want on offense but it at least allows the ball to move and find the open player.

Now St. John's has to adjust to a Myles Johnson....if they do what most teams are taught, they will double the post as soon as it hits the low block....If you don't double and they have a player (Keita) that can guard the post, then we see what happens.

I think this game gets into the 70s easily and low 80s. FTs on both sides and playing with composure will decide this game.

 

[RUChoppin]

So far, the minutes for our more traditional PF/C players (6-7/200 or bigger):

56 - Omoruyi
39 - Johnson
34 - Doorson
10 - Doucoure
8 - Carter

That's 147 min out of a possible 160 at the 4/5 spots... with 13 more being provided by Harper/Thiam.

In some games, we'll likely go bigger, and those 13 min will be distributed across these players - and some of Omoruyi's minutes may be on the wing. But overall, it looks as though Doucoure/Carter may mostly become the pressure release guys when the other three run into foul trouble.

 

[rudad02]

If only there were a thread on Shaq C with 25 responses...

Guess there is. Maybe you missed it.

 

[Degaz-RU]

Kind of my point. Those guys don't take outside shots. Goins (for example) has taken 24 total 3 pointers in three years and two games. These kind of guys are (better) Freeman's where if you put someone on them who can't physically matchup (which I don't feel Issa and Harper Jr can) they can go off. If you guard them with some size and strength you limit what they do.

It doesn't mean I don't think we can play those guys as stretch "4"'s in spots, just that there is zero ability for us to play a post "4" (outside of Eugene) in games against FDU and Drexel. Its clearly optimal to play the "stretch 4" against those types of teams. So I do not believe we have a true picture of the rotation.

Absorbing guard pressure and having someone who can (at least) make Herron work for his are the keys Friday night. I think we are the better team and are at home and I kind of feel we should win this one. SJU is only (really) 7 deep. If we outbound them like we should and absorb ball pressure we can win this one. SJU's backcourt is going to "get theirs" but if we limit everything else and come at them in waves.....To me, It's the kind of game where it can/will be close for 30 minutes and our size and depth is the difference in the last 10. Rutgers 78-SJU 69 as an early prediction.

The other way to look at this is that maybe WE can dictate the pace against the other teams by playing "small" with either Thiam or Harper at the 4. This could force our opponent to sub out their "big" 4 in favor of a quicker one. If they don't, the ramification could be that Thiam/Harper become matchup nightmares for a "big" 4 because of quickness/perimeter abilities. With Eugene's shooting ability, I think this scenario plays out no matter who we put at the 4 (assuming it's one of these three and not Doucoure or Carter).

The fix on the defensive end if the opponent leaves in their "big" 4 against our "small" 4 is to play zone defense. With both Thiam and Harper having long wingspans, a zone D can be quite effective even against bigger 4s and 5s - especially with Johnson or Doorson in the middle protecting the rim.

 

[RUChoppin]

Guess there is. Maybe you missed it.

Apparently I forgot to use the /sarcasm tag at the end of that post.

Looks like the mods merged them together.

 

[rudad02]

Apparently I forgot to use the /sarcasm tag at the end of that post.

Looks like the mods merged them together.

By all means, sarcasm is a must.

 

[RUChow]

I actually think it’s very possible Myles overtakes Doorson as the season goes on. He’s been the most impressive big through two game, and he shows an offensive low post game we haven’t seen in a long time.

I think that's pretty much when not if.