Team Beats Players. . . .and Thoughts of Jay Wright

[JoeRU0304]

Go

Joe cmon man. Good teams lose to bad teams all the time. Notre dame lost to northern Illinois

...we're not a good team. For years (pre-NIL) Rutgers fans were given crap season after crap season after crap season after crap season. That's why any time I see the 'blame the fans'-type posts I pretty much throw the challenge flag. Whatever our NIL war chest is I'm pretty sure it was at least enough to be better than 10-10 at this point in the year.

Joe P.

 

[bethlehemfan]

...we're not a good team. For years (pre-NIL) Rutgers fans were given crap season after crap season after crap season after crap season. That's why any time I see the 'blame the fans'-type posts I pretty much throw the challenge flag. Whatever our NIL war chest is I'm pretty sure it was at least enough to be better than 10-10 at this point in the year.

Joe P.

Our nil is shit and I don’t blame the fans.

 

[RutgersClassof2004]

Would be fine comments to apply to this scenario if Ace and Dylan weren’t playing well.

They are not the problem. They can’t win alone, nor could Ace Baldwin. Swap Ace Bailey for Ace Baldwin and do you think this team is going anywhere?

The issue is the 22-24 years olds on this roster are below average P4 players.

If you put Dylan on Duke or Ace on Duke do you think they’re all of a sudden outside the top 25?

Weren't Martini and Acuff today like 1-12?

 

[RutgersClassof2004]

Martini clunked 5 wide open 3s.

 

[BigEastPhil]

Jay Wright could have been our coach back in the day ! Ugh!

Damn his agent for contacting Nova!

 

[bac2therac]

Right now we are paying dearly for three recruiting classes that only yielded Jmike

However ….thats not the only story

When I look at the roster construction …it’s a total mess

If you want to build a team around Dylan and Ace….it started with recognizing thart they are rhe PG and Swingman

We have three frosh front court guys …and very few are rewdy

So what did we need to do was in the portal was
-find a shooting guard that doesn’t need the ball in their hand for an extended period

An akwasi type for rhe four who is really a 3 and D guy .

Another center

Instead …we have FOUR point guards behind Dykan (yes , acuff is a scoring point guard …and Derkack is the closest thing we have to a wing guard and he isn’t a pure shooter .) and do not have a shooting guard

And we have hayes who is potential a three and D guy…but can’t play D

And we have martiji …same thing

Our roster is a mess this year ….we don’t have the right pieces around Dykan and ace

100%

 

[bac2therac]

You know this how? You think rutgers nil is comparable to the powers in this conference

do you think every school is paying 7-10 players $500K-1 million

Garcia took 500K at Minny instead of one million elsewhere.....are they paying anybody else..what about northwestern, iowa, penn state......not that these teams have records all that better than rutgers right now..maybe a game or 2 but all these programs do not have Ace or Dylan do they?

 

[Knight Shift]

Our nil is shit and I don’t blame the fans.

Would love to know how much of the NIL money is allotted to football versus basketball and other sports.

 

[bethlehemfan]

do you think every school is paying 7-10 players $500K-1 million

Do you always answer a question with a question?

 

[bethlehemfan]

do you think every school is paying 7-10 players $500K-1 million

Garcia took 500K at Minny instead of one million elsewhere.....are they paying anybody else..what about northwestern, iowa, penn state......not that these teams have records all that better than rutgers right now..maybe a game or 2 but all these programs do not have Ace or Dylan do they?

So you think we have better resources than other programs in the big bac? You don’t think that do you?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Would be fine comments to apply to this scenario if Ace and Dylan weren’t playing well.

They are not the problem. They can’t win alone, nor could Ace Baldwin. Swap Ace Bailey for Ace Baldwin and do you think this team is going anywhere?

The issue is the 22-24 years olds on this roster are below average P4 players.

If you put Dylan on Duke or Ace on Duke do you think they’re all of a sudden outside the top 25?

Ace and Dylan are putting up numbers, but thats where it stops.

Defense has been AWFUL. Ace’s shot selection is killing offensive flow. Him taking crazy shots is demoralizing when they dont go in.

I said it before and especially after this game…we are losing because 1-12 on this roster and not 3-12.

 

[bethlehemfan]

Ace and Dylan are putting up numbers, but thats where it stops.

Defense has been AWFUL. Ace’s shot selection is killing offensive flow. Him taking crazy shots is demoralizing when they dont go in.

I said it before and especially after this game…we are losing because 1-12 on this roster and not 3-12.

To be fair ace is playing much better defensively than he was earlier.

 

[essexknight]

Right now we are paying dearly for three recruiting classes that only yielded Jmike

However ….thats not the only story

When I look at the roster construction …it’s a total mess

If you want to build a team around Dylan and Ace….it started with recognizing thart they are rhe PG and Swingman

We have three frosh front court guys …and very few are rewdy

So what did we need to do was in the portal was
-find a shooting guard that doesn’t need the ball in their hand for an extended period

An akwasi type for rhe four who is really a 3 and D guy .

Another center

Instead …we have FOUR point guards behind Dykan (yes , acuff is a scoring point guard …and Derkack is the closest thing we have to a wing guard and he isn’t a pure shooter .) and do not have a shooting guard

And we have hayes who is potential a three and D guy…but can’t play D

And we have martiji …same thing

Our roster is a mess this year ….we don’t have the right pieces around Dykan and ace

Totally agree. Roster construction is the main problem, not Dylan and Ace. It comes down to the recent recruiting misses you mentioned and doing poorly in the portal last year. None of the shooters the staff brought in can shoot at this level. They also brought in no experienced front court presence to offset the loss of Cliff. I like Sommerville and Grant, but neither is ready to play major minutes against older front court players in the B1G.

 

[bac2therac]

So you think we have better resources than other programs in the big bac? You don’t think that do you?

ru should have comparable money to other bottom feeders...if we dont then we dont belong in this league

 

[biazza38]

We’re really reaching here and it’s starting to get funny. This isn’t rocket science so I will spell it out for everyone again.
We are in this mess because of recruiting misses from 2021-2023. Ace and Dylan are not part of the problem. Some can point to Ace’s poor shot selection or average defense from Dylan, but Pike made some awful roster decisions at the 4 and the 5.
Look at the teams in this league. Seriously, watch Maryland with Queen and Reese. Pike has been a coach in this league for 8 years and he thought he could get starter minutes from Martini at the 4.
Ace’s shot selection has nothing to do with our lack of rim protection and teams feasting in the paint. Ace has bought in as a rebounder. But he’s a freshmen so he was never going to be an enforcer on a defensive side of the court. It’s laughable the way Pike went about this.
@Greene Rice FIG likes to point out that his shot selection kills the “offensive flow.” Flow, what flow? I’ve seen two games where it looks like we actually drew something up on offense. Just say you hate Ace and Dylan. Prior to Grant, there hasn’t been a single player outside of Dylan’s and Ace who can score with consistency, but we still have some who think they’re the problem.
Dylan’s average defense has nothing to do with Pike bringing in AAC level type players.
The problem is Pike having to go into the portal for 4 players and bringing guys in who were no better than those who left.
I look forward to next week’s edition of “who can we blame this week?”

 

[robjknight]

Derkack showed today he deserves significant minutes. Not being inserted for 4 minutes and then out and 4 minutes and then out. He played against the big boys today and was our best player, he played with passion and energy, If today was any indication , he can be that 3rd missing link with Ace and Dylan. Right now there needs to be 3 goals- one get Dylan Healthy, two have a winning record and three, make the Big tournament. We hung with the best team in the conference with some decent defense except in the paint; I believe if Dylan was healthy and EO could have played- we would have won this game.

 

[RUDivision]

Go

Joe cmon man. Good teams lose to bad teams all the time. Notre dame lost to northern Illinois

Yes but Pike does it every year at an alarming rate.

All the excuses in the world doesn’t get past how awful Pike and staff have been all year long.

The individuals buying into Izzo and Jay Wrights comments are laughable. Find me the quotes in Jay Wright and Tim Izzos combined 50 years of coaching where they spoke negatively about a team or coach?

Izzo has waxed poetic over every terrible coach RU has had since joining the big ten.

 

[RUsojo]

Ace and Dylan are putting up numbers, but thats where it stops.

Defense has been AWFUL. Ace’s shot selection is killing offensive flow. Him taking crazy shots is demoralizing when they dont go in.

I said it before and especially after this game…we are losing because 1-12 on this roster and not 3-12.

When a team is bad it’s the on the whole team no one is without fault in that sense. But high level, the issue is not Ace and Dylan not playing defense cmon that’s so unserious.

This goes all the way back to the ridiculous notion pushed this Summer that Rutgers was a walk to the sweet 16 team bc of the precedent set by other programs who’ve been in the situation we are in. The reason Washington was an outlier, and the same reason why we are an outlier, isn’t bc of the guys who ended up and will end up lottery picks. It’s primarily because of the guys on the team that weren’t and won’t be lottery picks.

The individual holes on this roster that surrounds Ace and Dylan are gargantuan, and that’s before going into how the pieces don’t even fit properly if they didn’t have holes. It was a bad project from the jump.

 

[RUDivision]

Our nil is shit and I don’t blame the fans.

How much Nil did we have this year?? 50 K, 500 k, 2 mil??? How much? I know we figured out how to pay the number 2 and 3 pick in the NBA draft .
The excuses for a bad game day coach, horrific offensive coach, and inability to identify talent is absurd.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

To be fair ace is playing much better defensively than he was earlier.

Not yesterday. He was terrible

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

When a team is bad it’s the on the whole team no one is without fault in that sense. But high level, the issue is not Ace and Dylan not playing defense cmon that’s so unserious.

This goes all the way back to the ridiculous notion pushed this Summer that Rutgers was a walk to the sweet 16 team bc of the precedent set by other programs who’ve been in the situation we are in. The reason Washington was an outlier, and the same reason why we are an outlier, isn’t bc of the guys who ended up and will end up lottery picks. It’s primarily because of the guys on the team that weren’t and won’t be lottery picks.

The individual holes on this roster that surrounds Ace and Dylan are gargantuan, and that’s before going into how the pieces don’t even fit properly if they didn’t have holes. It was a bad project from the jump.

Look at our points scored divided by possessions. We have a defense problem

 

[ancienthooper]

ru should have comparable money to other bottom feeders...if we dont then we dont belong in this league

I wouldn’t say that too loudly.

 

[NickRU714]

Look at our points scored divided by possessions. We have a defense problem

What is our points scored divided by possessions?
Perhaps we also have an offensive problem?

The defensive problem can't be fixed. We are already playing our "best" defenders the most minutes (did you see Davis have the worst defensive play in years on that open 3? Not even GG could make a play so bad).

The offense "could" at least be improved (could because it's likely can't be - same as the offense).

 

[Rhuarc]

Until some insider leaks NIL info about Rutgers we will only be able to speculate. The most interesting things I've seen posted though are:

- Ace/Dylan got a lot of NIL money. I've seen people on here say as much as 1.6 to 1.8 million. Most of it coming from an outside source.

- Acuff got the most of all the transfers.

- Lathan handcuffed Pike late in the process and threatened to leave if he got a significant backup center. This is all after we dabbled with getting an established center but didn't have enough money or the interest in shelling out so much for marginal players.

- We have less NIL money than our bottom feeding peers so we have to be more creative or get more big money donors.

- NIL will become less important with revenue sharing imminent but will still be a factor when fighting for players interested in a league rival.

Any other interesting nuggets that I've missed? The reason I ask is that all of these things add up to the mess we have and Pike needs to do a deep dive into future resource use to make his future teams successful. Anyway, this is why I think we're screwed and will need to move on from Pike. Not because he "sucks" as a coach or whatever. Money talks now more than anything.

It's always boggled my mind that people didn't want to come play with 2 lottery draft picks. How is that even possible? Well, I think money has proven to be more important than anything else and we just don't have enough of it.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

What is our points scored divided by possessions?
Perhaps we also have an offensive problem?

The defensive problem can't be fixed. We are already playing our "best" defenders the most minutes (did you see Davis have the worst defensive play in years on that open 3? Not even GG could make a play so bad).

The offense "could" at least be improved (could because it's likely can't be - same as the offense).

This isn't a what can we do statement...it is more we are losing because of all the guys on the team.

I am in the acceptance stage of grief because there is nothing that can be done at this point.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

- NIL will become less important with revenue sharing imminent but will still be a factor when fighting for players interested in a league rival.

1. We still have to come up with the revenue to share
2. the actual % towards hoops may not be as high as other programs

The one thing that will be a bit easier is that we will have open spots for a player looking to be a focal part of the offense and not the 3rd.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

When a team is bad it’s the on the whole team no one is without fault in that sense. But high level, the issue is not Ace and Dylan not playing defense cmon that’s so unserious.

I posted a stat that in the 2 years before we had 4 games each year where we allowed an adjusted over 1 point per possession.

We have been over 1.00 the last 4 games and 12 out of our 20 games.

Watch Ace play defense. stance not athletic, feet flat to the ground, most times no idea where his man is. doesnt get out on shooters.

He isn't alone. Last nights offensive star (with a bad hip as a legitimate excuse) literally jogs at a 9 minute mile pace in transition and is good for at least 2-3 missed close outs per game and gets beat off the dribble with ease.

 

[rubjk]

If there was inadequate NIL money, what's going to change next year?

Rev sharing gives another 3 mil to work with

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Rev sharing gives another 3 mil to work with

You are probably right......but where is the money coming from?

Season ticket holders?
NJ taxpayers?

 

[NickRU714]

So the solution is "veteran" JWill and Davis as our leaders next year?
That's the experienced backcourt we want?

All this hemming and hawing over "seniors that grew up with the program" is false.

Nobody (coaches or fans) want bad players to stick around until they are seniors. Just to have a "team" that grew up together.

Did UConn fans complain about Spencer since he was a "mercenary"?

 

[Rhuarc]

You are probably right......but where is the money coming from?

Season ticket holders?
NJ taxpayers?

Isn't it offset by the increase in money coming from the league? It's probably a combo of all of those factors.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

So the solution is "veteran" JWill and Davis as our leaders next year?
That's the experienced backcourt we want?

All this hemming and hawing over "seniors that grew up with the program" is false.

Nobody (coaches or fans) want bad players to stick around until they are seniors. Just to have a "team" that grew up together.

Did UConn fans complain about Spencer since he was a "mercenary"?

I don't have a problem with them as rotation players. Rather have (2025-26) JaMike and JWill over Derkack and Acuff. That's just me.

Can we be more than average with those 2 offensively playing more than 15 MPG, we both know the answer.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Isn't it offset by the increase in money coming from the league? It's probably a combo of all of those factors.

There is a thread on FB page and an article saying we are -$70 million. I know revenues are going to be increasing. Don't really know what a projected 2025 # should look like.

I do think me as a season ticket holder is going to be asked to chip in at least $500 per seat on top of what I already pay.

 

[Rhuarc]

There is a thread on FB page and an article saying we are -$70 million. I know revenues are going to be increasing. Don't really know what a projected 2025 # should look like.

I do think me as a season ticket holder is going to be asked to chip in at least $500 per seat on top of what I already pay.

If they ask that much, they will be losing quite a few season ticket holders. Hopefully it's a bit more gradual or nuanced than that.

 

[RUDivision]

I don't have a problem with them as rotation players. Rather have (2025-26) JaMike and JWill over Derkack and Acuff. That's just me.

Can we be more than average with those 2 offensively playing more than 15 MPG, we both know the answer.

A starting back court of JMike and Jwill will not win 10 games and will be the worst backcourt in the country AND the worst ever to play for RU.

 

[Loyal_2RU]

Would be fine comments to apply to this scenario if Ace and Dylan weren’t playing well.

They are not the problem. They can’t win alone, nor could Ace Baldwin. Swap Ace Bailey for Ace Baldwin and do you think this team is going anywhere?

The issue is the 22-24 years olds on this roster are below average P4 players.

If you put Dylan on Duke or Ace on Duke do you think they’re all of a sudden outside the top 25?

Honestly, i think the year's trajectory was altered substantially by the Acuff injury. Last year he runs like a gazelle, this year like a galoomph. I think that loss has but been overcome.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

If they ask that much, they will be losing quite a few season ticket holders. Hopefully it's a bit more gradual or nuanced than that.

Agree....money doesnt grow on trees.

I don't want to pay it, but it isn't fair for a NJ tax payer to pay. Imagine a Seton Hall fan paying for a RU college athlete, I wouldn't be happy.

 

[bac2therac]

I don't have a problem with them as rotation players. Rather have (2025-26) JaMike and JWill over Derkack and Acuff. That's just me.

Can we be more than average with those 2 offensively playing more than 15 MPG, we both know the answer.

Sorry JD brings more than J Will any day of the week. I will take intangible of hard working scrappiness

 

[bac2therac]

There is a thread on FB page and an article saying we are -$70 million. I know revenues are going to be increasing. Don't really know what a projected 2025 # should look like.

I do think me as a season ticket holder is going to be asked to chip in at least $500 per seat on top of what I already pay.

If so im out next year

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Sorry JD brings more than J Will any day of the week. I will take intangible of hard working scrappiness

He plays hard in spurts. All year he jogs back on defense. So many times he doesnt get out in shooters.

There is a reason he was in the dog house. Not all offense.