So the "great" AD Pernetti

[bac2therac]

but Waters wanted De Sean Butler who said he would have come here but Fred Hill did not want him. Fred was expected to bring in Lance Thomas but didn't, we do not know how much Waters firing effected Thomas decision.

Waters was personable...if you want to the Waters show you would know that

I think you are giving Carr a little too much credit lol

why do our fans continue to downplay our NIT tourney run because we had home games.....so what..you still have to win the games...all 3 schools WVU, Nova and Temple had quality players, they just didn't lay down because the game was at the RAC

 

[rutgersnyc]

Re: So the "great" AD Pernetti hired Rice

A terrible decision since Rice was a well know wacko in Pennsylvania and no one else would touch him. Even if he was the only guy we could afford, he should have been kept on the shortest leach ever, with a weekly check-in. What the hell was Tim thinking? He deserved what he got.

 

[PatrickRU92]

Originally posted by bac2therac:

but Waters wanted De Sean Butler who said he would have come here but Fred Hill did not want him.

This has been much speculated upon but never confirmed. And DeSean Butler as a freshman in GW's 6th year wasn't going to save the program (or GWs job). GW had 5 years to improve recruiting and he couldn't do it. Nice guy for sure but as we know being nice doesn't win ball games.

Every coach since Wenzel has recruited VERY POORLY and is why we are in the quagmire we are currently in. It takes some serious work to recruit as badly as we have done in the last 25 years. It almost seems like we would stumble onto someone by mistake but we just never seem to catch a break.

 

[derleider]

Originally posted by Greene Rice FIG:

Originally posted by bac2therac:
Rutgers again on the cheap is why Hill was fired ...extended then not fired In March to save money..they fired him 6 weeks later but that meant another botched improper coaching search with a small candidate pool

overlooked point...although Rice was a good hire at the time.

A good hire for a team looking to spend as little money as possible. SHU passed on him, as did presumably a bunch of other schools who hired not Rice.

Mulchaey panicked when it looked like SHU might hire FHJ as their HC. I have no idea if Waters sans FHJ would have gotten it done (one assumes that had RU not promoted FHJ then SHU might actually have hired him.). And really I didnt object to firiing him at the time - he certainly looked like he was going to have a tough stretch without Douby there.

But reality is - we keep spending next to nothing on coaches and getting the expected results.

 

[bac2therac]

Originally posted by PatrickRU92:

Originally posted by bac2therac:

but Waters wanted De Sean Butler who said he would have come here but Fred Hill did not want him.

This has been much speculated upon but never confirmed. And DeSean Butler as a freshman in GW's 6th year wasn't going to save the program (or GWs job). GW had 5 years to improve recruiting and he couldn't do it. Nice guy for sure but as we know being nice doesn't win ball games.

Every coach since Wenzel has recruited VERY POORLY and is why we are in the quagmire we are currently in. It takes some serious work to recruit as badly as we have done in the last 25 years. It almost seems like we would stumble onto someone by mistake but we just never seem to catch a break.

the FIG class had talent. Hill ruined them. Butler with them and with Waters coaching, yes there was a possibility of success. Those were his guys he didn't get to coach and that was the first year that recruiting got improved. Also Douby left early, if he had a 4th season there would have been a fair chance that RU made something happen...the team reached the 2nd round of the NIT finishing 18-13 Doubys junior year where he had a lot of freshmen on the team...if he stayed I think Waters could have had that team in the tourney

 

[cRURah]

Rice was a terrible hire and I said so at the time. Pernetti was a fool and so goes his legacy.

 

[knight82]

If Douby and Waters had been back (and possibly Lance Thomas) that was an NCAA team. Inman and Farmer would have been much better under Waters.

 

[MADHAT1]

Waters might have brought RU to the dance , but we'll never know because he didn't and left before he could do that.
I believe with Freddie receuiting and Gary coaching it would have been done.
But the fact is Waters had losing seasons in conference play 4 of the 5 years he was the RU HC and never had consecutive winning seasons in the five years he was at RU.
By the time Gary was forced out, a lot of RU MBB fans felt he wasn't the man that could make RU MBB a top program in the BE .
It's what happened after he left that makes many look on at the Waters era with fondness and start thinking he was the one that could of/ should of brought RU to the Big Dance.
Actually as much as I argue about Waters not being the one, I do feel with Hill Jr.'s recruiting he might just have done that.
I think he was a good game-day coach and had the players respect, but just didn't have the recruiting ability needed to compete in the Big East.
He could bring in one or two , but not enough to provide the depth needed to be a top BE program.

As for Rice, because of running RU MBB on the cheap , gambles must be made when hiring MBB HCs and Pernetti took that gamble by hiring Mike Rice. You might consider MR the pick of a mighty poor litter that would accept the RU MBB HCing position
Pernetti had to pay off Hill who he fired for cause, then found out that for cause fire might not stick if Hill took it to court.
He also couldn't promise coaching candidates facility upgrades because there wasn't the funds available to do it.
So with poor facilities and low ball salary Pernetti didn't have much option on who he could get, he took a gamble on Rice
and lost.
Was it a poor move yes it was, but that's being said after everything happened.
I wasn't against it when Pernetti hired Rice.
Most RU MBB fans felt hiring Rice was a good move, though some were against it and I think the media didn't bring up any red flags and thought hiring MR was a pretty good move.
I don't remember any articles that had Rice as anything more than a emotional coach, but could be wrong about that.

 

[PatrickRU92]

Originally posted by knight82:

If Douby and Waters had been back (and possibly Lance Thomas) that was an NCAA team. Inman and Farmer would have been much better under Waters.

Douby wasn't coming back at all. He would have been nuts to come back. He was a 1st round NBA pick.

FHJ was the one recruiting Thomas, not GW.

GW was not bringing us to the dance guys. He had his chance and he had the best player we've had in 25 years and he still didn't get it done.

I disagree with you bac about the FIGG class. Much like MR's class, it was highly overrated and had the same issues as we have dealing with forever.

 

[rutgersnyc]

Re: There was a long book on Rice

In his league, Rice had a very bad rep - out of control. This was well known. Even SH would not look at the guy. Either Tim did not do due diligence or he just ignored and allowed free reign at Rutgers. Anyway, the whole sad mess put a nail into Tim's legacy and the RU Basketball coffin.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Originally posted by PatrickRU92:

Originally posted by knight82:

If Douby and Waters had been back (and possibly Lance Thomas) that was an NCAA team. Inman and Farmer would have been much better under Waters.

GW was not bringing us to the dance guys. He had his chance and he had the best player we've had in 25 years

How can you say this with so much confidence. 3 out of 5 years he had us pretty darn close.

 

[bac2therac]

Originally posted by PatrickRU92:

Originally posted by knight82:

If Douby and Waters had been back (and possibly Lance Thomas) that was an NCAA team. Inman and Farmer would have been much better under Waters.

Douby wasn't coming back at all. He would have been nuts to come back. He was a 1st round NBA pick.

FHJ was the one recruiting Thomas, not GW.

GW was not bringing us to the dance guys. He had his chance and he had the best player we've had in 25 years and he still didn't get it done.

I disagree with you bac about the FIGG class. Much like MR's class, it was highly overrated and had the same issues as we have dealing with forever.

JR Inman was a very good freshmen for us...a nice 6th man that year and he broke his leg and missed about 6-8 weeks which effected a few games. You are letting how he tanked under the horrific Fred Hill effect your thinking. Fred not only torpedoed Inmans career, he also torpedoed Farmer, Griffin and Chandler. Waters would have had that team in the NIT minimum and if Douby was back yes NCAA a possibility. Sure Douby left but you didn't know he would coming into his season. His sophomore year was not all that hot. Those were Waters guys and they came to play for him...they HATED Hill. Look at what Waters did his first year with guys that were run of the mill and young
This post was edited on 2/26 12:44 PM by bac2therac

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

JR can play....wouldn't be in the D league right now if he couldn't.

Gary connected with players something that shouldn't be overlooked.

We will never know, but do you think Jack would be the type of player we have now if Waters was coaching him? He'd play hard for Gary.
This post was edited on 2/26 12:25 PM by Greene Rice FIG

 

[MADHAT1]

Originally posted by Greene Rice FIG:

Originally posted by PatrickRU92:

Originally posted by knight82:

If Douby and Waters had been back (and possibly Lance Thomas) that was an NCAA team. Inman and Farmer would have been much better under Waters.

GW was not bringing us to the dance guys. He had his chance and he had the best player we've had in 25 years

How can you say this with so much confidence. 3 out of 5 years he had us pretty darn close.

For RU MBB that's an accomplishment.
For good programs , that's a firing offense.
The bar is set low and used when convenient now.
When Gary was HC the bar was higher and many RU MBB fans felt RU should do better than that.
4 out of 5 years RU had a losing conference record under Waters, but 2 of them were close (7-9),
but those two years shouldn't be considered good enough, unless the bar is set low.

Jordan might not be the answer and I pointed out Rice's three years werer just about the same as Hill's last season's W-L record , so MR wasn't the answer but the low bar set for RU MBB HCs makes some long for his return, just like tey look back on the Waters era with fondness, forgetting many gave up on Gary taking RU to the promised land before Mulcahy forced him to resign with a buyout.
The way some are looking back at the old RU coaches, I'm surprised no one thinks Freddie might have succeeded as a HC because his last season at Rutgers was his best by 4 games and if given a chance would do even better the next year .
That's me being sarcastic, but with the low bar set for RU HCs it might not be far off, as ridiculous as that statement is.