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Start Lewis Against Morgan State

Who said anything about just handing off. Give the most talented QB we have on the roster the keys and watch him go, mistakes and all. There's zero chance of losing this game no matter who plays QB, so my thinking is let's see if he's as good as advertised when they take the green jersey off (which the staff has really never seen).

I'd like to see Ash realize he needs to play with some gamble, not to try to just keep scores close. Let Hollywood and Tom Cruise be your guide. What could go wrong?

Great movie reference.

But no.

First of all, we really don't know if Lewis is the most talented college QB yet. He appeared very talented on his high school films that were cropped to show him off. Which we all have learned, have we not, that such film is not a great predictor for determining if a kid will be great in college. Remember that a lot of people here were certain Oden was going to be the most talented QB too.

The coaching staff have a better idea, now, of what they have in Lewis. I trust them to decide who to play when. Same as I trusted them about Rettig. And the evidence pretty much supports not having played Rettig much.

Having said that, if and only if the staff view Lewis as ready to win more games for us this season than Bolin or Gio, then perhaps it's time to give him a start. Otherwise, I would play Bolin (assuming he's the guy they feel gives us the best chance to win), with Gio and Lewis time in the second half, if we have a big enough lead and if Bolin has cleaned up any problems the staff want him to work on in this game.
 
what could go wrong? Well, uh, we might lose the game?

The "he'll just hand the ball off" belief is based on the possibility that Lewis is just not ready to run a pass offense. I sure hope he learns; I don't want a repeat of last year with a freshman QB who couldn't do anything but run.

There's simply no way we'd ever lost to Morgan State. None. We need to treat it as a scrimmage to get players reps, like Lewis. Even if he doesn't start, he needs a few series with the starters - if he doesn't at least get that after burning the redshirt, I'll know Ash made a big mistake playing him last week.
 
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The coaching staff have a better idea, now, of what they have in Lewis. I trust them to decide who to play when. Same as I trusted them about Rettig. And the evidence pretty much supports not having played Rettig much.

Having said that, if and only if the staff view Lewis as ready to win more games for us this season than Bolin or Gio, then perhaps it's time to give him a start. Otherwise, I would play Bolin (assuming he's the guy they feel gives us the best chance to win), with Gio and Lewis time in the second half, if we have a big enough lead and if Bolin has cleaned up any problems the staff want him to work on in this game.
I see a Lewis/Oden as a better comparison then I do Lewis/Rettig.

Ash is intent on getting his young QB on the field to develop. I'm pretty skeptical that the play calling we have seen when each guy is in the game actually has done much for their development, but I think that is clearly the plan.

I don't think it has much to do with winning in the short term and if Lewis starts at some point this season I don't think it would have much to do with winning then either.

Given what I saw with Oden last year, and the little tiny bit I have seen with Lewis this year, I'm not liking this plan much at all.
 
Seems that you don't realize that most interceptions are caused by wide receivers running the wrong route & is not the fault of the QB, & considering that nearly every one of RU's WR's are new to the team I will let you figure who is at fault for the INT's
throwing directly to the opposing corner on a swing pass, throwing into quadruple coverage, and throwing into double coverage were not due to the receivers running the wrong route.
 
I see a Lewis/Oden as a better comparison then I do Lewis/Rettig.

Ash is intent on getting his young QB on the field to develop. I'm pretty skeptical that the play calling we have seen when each guy is in the game actually has done much for their development, but I think that is clearly the plan.

I don't think it has much to do with winning in the short term and if Lewis starts at some point this season I don't think it would have much to do with winning then either.

Given what I saw with Oden last year, and the little tiny bit I have seen with Lewis this year, I'm not liking this plan much at all.

Lewis has gotten into 1 game, there are still 10 games left.

They misjudged Oden and his willingness to prepare to play. That is why he received limited opportunities, also why he is no longer with the program.
 
Start Lewis. We're going nowhere this year with Bolin. No bowl. This program is about 2018 already after what I saw last Saturday. The fans and the recruits need some juice, excitement, hope for the future. That is Lewis. Morgan state at home is the best time to get him in there. Nebbie on the road? Ohio State? No way. Heck if we learn he isn't the answer that is valuable as well with two QBs coming in from Cali next year. Rutgers needs to change the narrative. Lewis scrambling and throwing bullets on morgan state in a routine can help.
 
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We do go through this each year. His redshirt is burned. One play does that. A medical redshirt is still available but a totally different situation. That would require a season ending injury by a certain amount of games played. I believe it's 4 games
So once again it isn't burned. Why do people struggle with this.
 
Lewis could be good but he can also become the next DC Jefferson. The downside would be killing Bolin's confidence and totally losing the team if the kid fails or even worse gets a major injury. I see a bigger possibility for failure. A lost team will lose games to PSU, and OSU by 50 rather than less than 20 like the Udub game. If the kid was ready to be the next Lamar Jackson or Vince Young, the coaches would have seen it by now.

If Bolin looses confidence in himself because he is benched for poor performance then he has no business being a D1 starting QB. Suck it up and make yourself better and useful.
 
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throwing directly to the opposing corner on a swing pass, throwing into quadruple coverage, and throwing into double coverage were not due to the receivers running the wrong route.

You know best, the coach who said this at the TD Club meeting last night is wrong & you are correct....moron
 
Lewis has gotten into 1 game, there are still 10 games left.

They misjudged Oden and his willingness to prepare to play. That is why he received limited opportunities, also why he is no longer with the program.
But their usage of Lewis was awfully reminiscent of last year with Oden. Sure only 2 plays, but this was against lesser opposition in a game where the starter was not impressive. Yes, let's see how we progress going fwd, but man if we don't see Lewis vs Morgan State in a MUCH larger capacity then we did vs EMU, then I will be very skeptical of Ash and his development of QB's.
 
Despite everything that happened last Saturday I still think that winning 3-4 games is a doable objective. This isn't for the fans but for next years recruits. They need to see some progress in the W/L line. Right now the QB that gives us the best chance to win is Bolin.
That being said as the year goes on we will see Lewis' time increase more and more. Probably will play at least the 4th quarter or maybe the whole second half this week depending on the score. No matter what Bolin will still start at Nebraska.
 
Despite everything that happened last Saturday I still think that winning 3-4 games is a doable objective. This isn't for the fans but for next years recruits. They need to see some progress in the W/L line. Right now the QB that gives us the best chance to win is Bolin.
That being said as the year goes on we will see Lewis' time increase more and more. Probably will play at least the 4th quarter or maybe the whole second half this week depending on the score. No matter what Bolin will still start at Nebraska.
Unless he is brutal for the first half vs Morgan and we go Gio or Lewis.

I don't expect that, but to say no matter what? I can see possibilities.
 
Despite everything that happened last Saturday I still think that winning 3-4 games is a doable objective. This isn't for the fans but for next years recruits. They need to see some progress in the W/L line. Right now the QB that gives us the best chance to win is Bolin.
That being said as the year goes on we will see Lewis' time increase more and more. Probably will play at least the 4th quarter or maybe the whole second half this week depending on the score. No matter what Bolin will still start at Nebraska.

RU just lost 11 straight with veteran QB's (and a hobbled Gio). I think losing with some excitement, like using a dual threat QB, goes a lot farther with the recruits than winning 2-3 games with dink and dunk conservative football
 
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RU just lost 11 straight with veteran QB's (and a hobbled Gio). I think losing with some excitement, like using a dual threat QB, goes a lot farther with the recruits than winning 2-3 games with dink and dunk conservative football
Gio is a dual threat QB with experience, and he is no longer hobbled. When unhobbled, he looked pretty good. Why cast him aside?
 
This is not an exhibition game where we can feel free to rotate quarterbacks at will.

It sure as hell better be an "exhibition" game. We need to start acting like a Big Ten team and use this game like a Big Ten team might. Play ALL the QBs with assigned series. Bolin starts..maybe plays the 1st QTR and then Lewis the 2nd QTR and Gio opens the 3rd QTR then decide who gets the 4th.. maybe a 4th stringer? Maybe let Grant get some snaps and actually THROW the ball.. put something on tape for scouts so they don't assume grant in wildcat is a run... maybe try others in a wildcat situation.
 
The program is in the process of a rebuild. Fred Hill Jr. would name Lewis a starter. I'd hope Ash would name him a starter only if he deserved it without much doubt.

Playing young guys solely because they are young is not a way to put the foundation in.
 
Lewis will come in on 2nd and 9 from the opponents 34 yard line and will either hand off or run. Then he will jog off the field and Bolin will throw an incomplete pass on 3rd.

For Christ's sake man, learn our offense.

haha I actually cringed when I read this. I dream of the day where this programs offensive play calling is not woeful.
 
So once again it isn't burned. Why do people struggle with this.

VK, you are wrong on this one, but the issue is one of terminology, since people commonly call everything a "redshirt." There is no such thing as a "redshirt," in the NCAA rules. It doesn't exist. Rather, the NCAA says that once you enroll, you are eligible to compete for 5 years, and that you can compete in 4 of those 5 years. The "redshirt" typically refers to the 5th year (in which you are enrolled, but do not compete).

A competition year is consumed when the athlete competes in an intercollegiate event on behalf of the school. So the moment you go on the field wearing a Rutgers uniform, a competition year is used. As of today, after this year, Lewis will have 4 years to play 3.

The only way that changes is if the NCAA grants him a waiver - in other words, they make a ruling that this year didn't count. That is most commonly a "Medical Hardship Waiver." If a Medical Hardship Waiver is granted, the NCAA restores the competition year, as if you never competed.

To qualify for a Medical Hardship Waiver, you need to meet the following criteria: (1) suffer a season ending injury in the first half of the season; (2) compete in no more than 30% of the scheduled competition dates for the sport. If you meet both of those criteria, the NCAA will grant you a medical hardship waiver, and you will not lose a competition year.

So the example is: Player X (can't use player names -- no jinx!), a true freshman enrolls with the school, and begins his eligibility clock. He now has 5 years to compete in 4. He plays in the first 2 games of the football season. Because he is enrolled, he loses one of his 5 years of eligibility. Because he has competed for the university, he also uses one of his 4 years to compete. In his sophomore year, he will have 4 years of eligibility remaining, to compete in 3.

However, say in that second game he suffered an injury that can be documented, that prevents him from competing the rest of the year. In that case, the athlete could apply to the NCAA for a Medical Hardship Waiver. Because he was inured in the first half of the season, and competed in less than 30% of the scheduled competition dates, he would qualify for said waiver. The NCAA would restore the competition year. Beginning in his sophomore year, the Player X would have 4 years to compete in 4.

Note that the Medical Hardship Waiver does not change his eligibility clock -- it doesn't give him a 6th year!! It merely says we will ignore those 2 games you played, and treat the year as if you never competed (i.e. treat the year as a "redshirt" year). Player X has lost one of his 5 years of eligibility no matter what. The only contingency is that if he gets hurt, he may get to play in all of his remaining 4 years.
 
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VK, you are wrong on this one, but the issue is one of terminology, since people commonly call everything a "redshirt." There is no such thing as a "redshirt," in the NCAA rules. It doesn't exist. Rather, the NCAA says that once you enroll, you are eligible to compete for 5 years, and that you can compete in 4 of those 5 years. The "redshirt" typically refers to the 5th year (in which you are enrolled, but do not compete).

A competition year is consumed when the athlete competes in an intercollegiate event on behalf of the school. So the moment you go on the field wearing a Rutgers uniform, a competition year is used. As of today, after this year, Lewis will have 4 years to play 3.

The only way that changes is if the NCAA grants him a waiver - in other words, they make a ruling that this year didn't count. That is most commonly a "Medical Hardship Waiver." If a Medical Hardship Waiver is granted, the NCAA restores the competition year, as if you never competed.

To qualify for a Medical Hardship Waiver, you need to meet the following criteria: (1) suffer a season ending injury in the first half of the season; (2) compete in no more than 30% of the scheduled competition dates for the sport. If you meet both of those criteria, the NCAA will grant you a medical hardship waiver, and you will not lose a competition year.

So the example is: Player X (can't use player names -- no jinx!), a true freshman enrolls with the school, and begins his eligibility clock. He now has 5 years to compete in 4. He plays in the first 2 games of the football season. Because he is enrolled, he loses one of his 5 years of eligibility. Because he has competed for the university, he also uses one of his 4 years to compete. In his sophomore year, he will have 4 years of eligibility remaining, to compete in 3.

However, say in that second game he suffered an injury that can be documented, that prevents him from competing the rest of the year. In that case, the athlete could apply to the NCAA for a Medical Hardship Waiver. Because he was inured in the first half of the season, and competed in less than 30% of the scheduled competition dates, he would qualify for said waiver. The NCAA would restore the competition year. Beginning in his sophomore year, the Player X would have 4 years to compete in 4.

Note that the Medical Hardship Waiver does not change his eligibility clock -- it doesn't give him a 6th year!! It merely says we will ignore those 2 games you played, and treat the year as if you never competed (i.e. treat the year as a "redshirt" year). Player X has lost one of his 5 years of eligibility no matter what. The only contingency is that if he gets hurt, he may get to play in all of his remaining 4 years.
I know the rules and we go through this every year. Every single season there is some rant about how coach x y or z is stupid for wasting a year for two plays. Then we come to discover after game four they were "injured" and don't play again. It happens EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Now, this won't be the case with Lewis as the staff fully intends to use him more and more as the season goes on. However, I can guarantee you that if the staff changed their mind in the next two weeks we would in fact hear abut some "injury" and the NCAA would approve it.
 
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But their usage of Lewis was awfully reminiscent of last year with Oden. Sure only 2 plays, but this was against lesser opposition in a game where the starter was not impressive. Yes, let's see how we progress going fwd, but man if we don't see Lewis vs Morgan State in a MUCH larger capacity then we did vs EMU, then I will be very skeptical of Ash and his development of QB's.
we will but lets remember in those two plays Lewis made the wrong read both times
 
I know the rules and we go through this every year. Every single season there is some rant about how coach x y or z is stupid for wasting a year for two plays. Then we come to discover after game four they were "injured" and don't play again. It happens EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Now, this won't be the case with Lewis as the staff fully intends to use him more and more as the season goes on. However, I can guarantee you that if the staff changed their mind in the next two weeks we would in fact hear abut some "injury" and the NCAA would approve it.

I know you are a very knowledgeable fan. Not attacking your point of view and I know you know this stuff. But the discrepancy in understanding comes from the whole "burn a redshirt" notion, which is really the exact backwards way to look at it. You are essentially analyzing if he used up his year not to compete. The better way to look at it is by looking at if he "used a competition year." I realize I will never change the way everyone talks about this, even though its much more clear to speak about these things within the framework of the NCAA rules.

I think you greatly overestimate how easy it is to document a season ending injury. You cannot just make it up. You need to present documentation with the application. Of course, Lewis might get hurt. But odds are he won't, and if I were betting, I would bet a reasonable sum that beginning next year he will have 4 and 3. With football, the odds also are that if isn't injured and doesn't redshirt as a freshman, he never will.

That said, I think most fans way overestimate the importance of preserving player eligibility. The right answer, for me, is who cares if Lewis competes for 4 years straight. We are a basement program trying to get better. If Ash wants to have a job, he can worry about 5 years from now when he is recruiting. There is no need to hold up players who can contribute on a team that is rebuilding. If Lewis winds up being awesome, and only plays 2 plays this year, of course it will have been stupid of Ash to use him. But the odds of that happening are extraordinarily slim. They have a pretty good idea what they have in Lewis at this point. He will play, and 5 years from now, someone else will play.
 
I know the rules and we go through this every year. Every single season there is some rant about how coach x y or z is stupid for wasting a year for two plays. Then we come to discover after game four they were "injured" and don't play again. It happens EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Now, this won't be the case with Lewis as the staff fully intends to use him more and more as the season goes on. However, I can guarantee you that if the staff changed their mind in the next two weeks we would in fact hear abut some "injury" and the NCAA would approve it.

Is the NCAA completely in the dark as to practice participation. Say Lewis does not play again this season but is a full participant in practice, does the NCAA not know this?

Certainly with Grant, he was hurt, he was done, he wasn't practicing.

What examples are there of guy's who have actually followed the path you outline?
 
Saturday can't be viewed as merely stand-alone 60 minute scrimmage where multiple QBs get ample time. There is a game week script to follow. This week in practice the starter (Bolin) will get almost all the reps with the first team to prepare for Saturday, and also to give the team the best chance to win after this week for the conference slate.

Splitting up practice reps and game time with an eye on the long term future undermines chances for success in the short term. Ash is focused on the Now or else he won't be here in the long term.
 
we will but lets remember in those two plays Lewis made the wrong read both times
Which only adds to the argument for not throwing a freshman QB out there for 1 play mid drive. Is the kid ready or not? If he's making wrong reads I'd say he is not, so why is he playing?
 
I know you are a very knowledgeable fan. Not attacking your point of view and I know you know this stuff. But the discrepancy in understanding comes from the whole "burn a redshirt" notion, which is really the exact backwards way to look at it. You are essentially analyzing if he used up his year not to compete. The better way to look at it is by looking at if he "used a competition year." I realize I will never change the way everyone talks about this, even though its much more clear to speak about these things within the framework of the NCAA rules.

I think you greatly overestimate how easy it is to document a season ending injury. You cannot just make it up. You need to present documentation with the application. Of course, Lewis might get hurt. But odds are he won't, and if I were betting, I would bet a reasonable sum that beginning next year he will have 4 and 3. With football, the odds also are that if isn't injured and doesn't redshirt as a freshman, he never will.

That said, I think most fans way overestimate the importance of preserving player eligibility. The right answer, for me, is who cares if Lewis competes for 4 years straight. We are a basement program trying to get better. If Ash wants to have a job, he can worry about 5 years from now when he is recruiting. There is no need to hold up players who can contribute on a team that is rebuilding. If Lewis winds up being awesome, and only plays 2 plays this year, of course it will have been stupid of Ash to use him. But the odds of that happening are extraordinarily slim. They have a pretty good idea what they have in Lewis at this point. He will play, and 5 years from now, someone else will play.
I understand the way you are looking at it and the terminology. I was simply responding to the premise that he couldn't get 4 more years after playing in one or two games. I can assure you, you can count on less than two hands the number of kids playing on a college football team that don't have something that can be seen on MRI that would provide more than enough documentation. A few years ago, I had real bad elbow pain for no reason. Asked an ortho buddy of mine to order some tests. Turns out somewhere along the line in college, I fractured my elbow. Had no idea and never missed a practice. Pretty much every knee and shoulder in that locker room has a positive MRI result on it.
 
I understand the way you are looking at it and the terminology. I was simply responding to the premise that he couldn't get 4 more years after playing in one or two games. I can assure you, you can count on less than two hands the number of kids playing on a college football team that don't have something that can be seen on MRI that would provide more than enough documentation. A few years ago, I had real bad elbow pain for no reason. Asked an ortho buddy of mine to order some tests. Turns out somewhere along the line in college, I fractured my elbow. Had no idea and never missed a practice. Pretty much every knee and shoulder in that locker room has a positive MRI result on it.

Does that play out though? I am not aware of many players getting medical hardship waivers awarded, but I certainly may miss them. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone at Rutgers who got a waiver who didn't suffer an obviously legit season ending injury.

I think the more typical way, if you want to game it, would be to make the call in Week 3, and then send the athlete for surgery. But that is really uncommon.
 
But again, if we were to go medical RS on Lewis, wouldn't that have an effect on his usage in practice?

And are there many examples of guys who play a game or two and then come up with a mystery injury?

I find it all pretty unlikely.
 
Is the NCAA completely in the dark as to practice participation. Say Lewis does not play again this season but is a full participant in practice, does the NCAA not know this?

Certainly with Grant, he was hurt, he was done, he wasn't practicing.

What examples are there of guy's who have actually followed the path you outline?
heres one, I specifically remember this because the thread went on for days and people were losing their minds. I vividly remember arguing with certain posters. As for your first question, everything is filmed so nobody is going to lie about practice time. You can still practice and not play and get a medical RS I believe.

http://www.scarletknights.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=208
 
Does that play out though? I am not aware of many players getting medical hardship waivers awarded, but I certainly may miss them. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone at Rutgers who got a waiver who didn't suffer an obviously legit season ending injury.

I think the more typical way, if you want to game it, would be to make the call in Week 3, and then send the athlete for surgery. But that is really uncommon.
see my last post
 
Does that play out though? I am not aware of many players getting medical hardship waivers awarded, but I certainly may miss them. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone at Rutgers who got a waiver who didn't suffer an obviously legit season ending injury.

I think the more typical way, if you want to game it, would be to make the call in Week 3, and then send the athlete for surgery. But that is really uncommon.
Sending Lewis or any other player off for some unnecessary surgery and thus missing 2 months of practice time with the team is pretty dang ridiculous. And we do this as a result of playing him for 2 plays vs EMU?

Let's just admit we burned a year of Lewis's eligibility and move on.
 
This is really much more common than you guys think. Look how many kids we read about in the SEC getting "forced out" with injuries. You really think all those kids have legit career ending injuries?
 
Aight checked it, Joseph looks like a legit example. He wanted to play and was unsure why he wasn't moving up the depth chart.

So maybe. I do expect Lewis will be more along the lines of Oden. I think Ash want's Lewis to be the starter next year, and thus will get him significant time this year, I just hope we see more diversified playcalling then we saw with Oden.
 
Start Lewis. We're going nowhere this year with Bolin. No bowl. This program is about 2018 already after what I saw last Saturday. The fans and the recruits need some juice, excitement, hope for the future. That is Lewis. Morgan state at home is the best time to get him in there. Nebbie on the road? Ohio State? No way. Heck if we learn he isn't the answer that is valuable as well with two QBs coming in from Cali next year. Rutgers needs to change the narrative. Lewis scrambling and throwing bullets on morgan state in a routine can help.

Exactly. We need juice. And stain, lol. Also, Lewis has the best film, by far, of any QB recruit I can recall since maybe McMahon, so it's not like I've been excited about playing every true frosh QB that comes along. Obviously, film isn't everything, but he just oozes talent - Lewis is different, IMO. He's the only one I can recall saying could easily be starting by mid-season in a long time.
 
A consideration on Lewis's HS career. His stats suggest more runner then passer. Maybe because he was so big other teams just could not stop him. But that won't work so well here.

Yes he has a big arm, but is he refined enough at the moment to really run an offense.
 
A consideration on Lewis's HS career. His stats suggest more runner then passer. Maybe because he was so big other teams just could not stop him. But that won't work so well here.

Yes he has a big arm, but is he refined enough at the moment to really run an offense.
this is what Kill wants to do on O. Lewis is perfect fit

 
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