It is getting to be absurd that there's no clarification on the coaching situation for next season.
Straightforward poll: should CVS be replaced before next season: yes or no?
- Thread starter RC66
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College classes end in four weeks. A CJ Gettys situation is unusual. A student-athlete and their Mom and Dad would have to be idiots to wait until June to decide what to do regarding a coach who will be MIA for 15 months by then.
Elite level talent, and one notch below, are not entering the portal without knowing their next stop. If you think because players have not “entered” the portal, they are loyal is not a true picture of reality. Real talent does not enter the portal to test the waters they know exactly where they are going prior to entering the portal. Cannot wait until June to swim in this swamp.
Exactly. The program is being held hostage at this point with no clear path forward.
It will just be an ugly PR scene as you knowNJ.com loves this stuff; she clearly won't move UPSTAIRS to her so called administrative position in which by all accounts she will still be paid the remainder of her contract anyway so the longer this goes on the worse she looks on all accounts and the more respect and any goodwill that she earned in all the good years has already gone way by the boards with this crap she is pulling
If these were different times perhaps people would be more unforgiving towards CVS but honestly I could actually see Hobb’s being blamed maliciously for defamation of a HOF and a woman to boot. That is the ugly part and yes…Nj.com and women’s groups would be outraged at any treatment they perceive to be unfair. I ‘ll just leave it at that. Don’t want to wake up the apologists or offend the mods.
If it's a health issue and Hobbs jumps the gun by firing CVS before the time limit ( extention) that was agreed on, he would deserve to be held accountable.
But if Stringer can't return by the allotted time, no one should go after Hobbs for terminating Vivian from being the HC.
RU's AD shouldn't be accused of anything and I doubt he would after showing the type of loyalty and compassion to the Long Term HOF RU HC that has received every LOA extension she asked for in order to recover from her health problem and can't return to the job because she still isn't healthy enough.
It will be understood that Hobbs now has to put the program first and as long as there is a spot for CVS in the Athletic Department's Office I doubt any accusations made claiming Stringer was wronged by any group or media outlet will be considered a valid one.
But if Hobbs jumps the gun and makes a change before the last LOA extension is over (June 19th)
and Stringer proves healthy enough to return by that date, I would guess many groups would look on that as something that denied Vivian the right to come back, if able to do so before last LOA extension time limit ends, . as promised and maybe even the Grey Panther group might get a few words in.
But I won't imply a problem will happen or if it won't, just feel after the deadline public should be informed what direction the program is going, coaching- wise
If not then I feel there is a problem needed to be adressed and Hobbs is the one to hold accountable.
But if Stringer can't return by the allotted time, no one should go after Hobbs for terminating Vivian from being the HC.
RU's AD shouldn't be accused of anything and I doubt he would after showing the type of loyalty and compassion to the Long Term HOF RU HC that has received every LOA extension she asked for in order to recover from her health problem and can't return to the job because she still isn't healthy enough.
It will be understood that Hobbs now has to put the program first and as long as there is a spot for CVS in the Athletic Department's Office I doubt any accusations made claiming Stringer was wronged by any group or media outlet will be considered a valid one.
But if Hobbs jumps the gun and makes a change before the last LOA extension is over (June 19th)
and Stringer proves healthy enough to return by that date, I would guess many groups would look on that as something that denied Vivian the right to come back, if able to do so before last LOA extension time limit ends, . as promised and maybe even the Grey Panther group might get a few words in.
But I won't imply a problem will happen or if it won't, just feel after the deadline public should be informed what direction the program is going, coaching- wise
If not then I feel there is a problem needed to be adressed and Hobbs is the one to hold accountable.
I would think you would be incorrect . There is something definitely going on behind the scenes. It is one thing to agree to the LOA but what has transpired is a contractual hostage situation and no matter what finally occurs with CVS a stain will remain on her career.It reflects very poorly on her regardless. Health issues are one thing but by this date and time there should have been a declaration by Stringer and Rutgers as to her possible return. People ( fans-alumni) will not be as welcoming to this coach. Unless she is afflicted with a catastrophic illness or on deaths door one can not believe in her contract there is not an out clause for the school even if that be a monetary settlement. What they fear is what we all understand in 2022 the possibility of negative media feedback and accusations of bias . Glad I no longer contribute to Rutgers. WBB. And for what it’s worth I think Hobbs has done a very good job overall for RU.
I think we are beyond the getting to be absurd point. This is a disaster and yes I believe CVS’s legacy at RU will be tarnished as a result.
As I've said before this is all Stringer how people can even think CVS should stay is beyond me; Hobbs has wanted her out for a while but just has not been able to do it because of the optics and this is only further proof that she basically has held Rutgers hostage these last few years
We can speculate all we want.
My speculation is: if it's a health issue Hobbs and the Rutgers administration want to give CVS as much leeway as possible.
Could be they really want her back and doing everything possible to give Vivian the time to see if her health will keep her from coming back or allow her to.
Not everything has to be about a non related issue and the fear that will be brought up if a decision is made.
One way or another we can expect non related issues to be brought up if someone dislikes the decision Whether its moving CVS to administration because she isn't healthy enough to return as HC, dismissing her because another extention won't be granted and her health isn't sufficently restored so she can return. Or bringing her back after being notified latest health check up was a positive one and Stringer's good to go.
All of them will have finger pointing from people who don't like the decision made and all sorts of accusations will be thrown out ,including the ones you are implying.
As for your contributions to the program being at an end, I'm sure others are doing the same because of the lack of communication coming from the University over this issue and Stringer not disclosing why she took the LOA and why it needed to be extended 3 times.
But over the years other issues caused people to stop donating to RU WBB and other sports.
So canceling donations because of not liking something about a RU Sports program has been going on before this mess caused a drop in donors , just like good news causes an addition
I'm sorry but she doesn't deserve a farewell tour.
People who deserve those put aside whatever it was that went down and put the program first - and they do that because they view it as "their" program. Those coaches don't take sick time - no matter how valid or earned a right it is. Coach K could have done the same instead of retirement.- but he didn't. And that's always going to be the difference.
People who deserve those put aside whatever it was that went down and put the program first - and they do that because they view it as "their" program. Those coaches don't take sick time - no matter how valid or earned a right it is. Coach K could have done the same instead of retirement.- but he didn't. And that's always going to be the difference.
CVS isn't the lone Ranger when it comes to LOA and I don't believe those I am mentioning gave up their salary during the time they were out for health reasons
Coach K took a leave of absence in the 1994-95 season because of back surgery and exhaustion.
Granted it was far less time than Vivian is taking but like Stringer didn't give up his job instead of taking LOA.
Krzyzewski also took another LOA for health reasons during the 2017 season.
Though it was for a short time , he didn't retire because of his health problem ( back) that bothered him causing the LOA at the end of Duke's 1994-95 season.
During the course of a long battle against cancer, Kay Yow of North Carolina State was forced to leave her basketball team on multiple occasions. The final time came in January of 2009. She died later that month at the age of 66.
St Louis Billikens head coach Rick Majerus previously was sidelined with heart problems at Utah prior to being hired in April of 2007. Majerus led the school to the NCAA tournament in 2012, but took medical leave in August that year. After announcing in November that Majerus would miss the season, the coach died on Dec. 1.
Just days before the 2007-08 basketball season, the UOA HC Lute Olson announced he was taking an indefinite leave of absence due to a personal matter. Kevin O'Neill coached the team to a 19-15 record and a NCAA tournament appearance. Olson returned to the team after the season, but then abruptly resigned in October. It was revealed later he suffered a stroke and he was advised to retire.
Be pissed at the lack of communication by RU & CVS, but not at anyone taking what is rightfully theirs to take.
I know a lot of people would say they would leave the money and retire, but in reality that's easy to say when you're not in a position where you have to chose. and might have obligations that are costly.
In Vivian's case the ability to move to administration is a factor when saying she should leave coaching, that is a valid argument because of no loss of salary , if health benefits are equal ,
Good points - I think the issue is more that there are ways to achieve whatever needs to be achieved without leaving the program out to dry.
Coach k seemed to be far from retirement when he had issues. Cviv is not... Give her security to retire but care for the program.
Agree,
I'm not saying I want Vivian to return as HC, but only pointing out some of the knocks are a little off..
CVS deserves , because of her long tenure and success as the RU HC , to be accommodated if her LOA was over a serious health issue and I believe Hobbs has bent over backwards for her by extending her LOA 3 times.
But if she isn't ready to come back by the end of her latest extension (June 19th) Hobbs must put the program first and find a replacement while letting Stringer move into administration with no loss of salary for the remaining years of the contract she's working under and has a clause stating that she'd be paid the same if moved from HC to an administrative position
I'd also want to have CVS; health thoroughly checked out by someone besides her personal physician(s) if RU wasn't involved in the choice of doctor(s) that gave her the bask to work approval.
Makng sure no stone was left upturned in the effort to be sure she would be physicaly and mentally capable of lasting as HC the rest of her contractual obligations as HC and wouldn't need to take even a short break because of a health concern was part of the reason she had to leave in 2019 and again last season.
I;m ready with personal doctor note should be only part of her being able to return to her coaching duties. Double checking her health needs to be included to make sure
I would love to see a fully healthy CVS return if she could give 100% the remaining years of her contrast, but I fear that her age and the health issues that caused her to take a break for a short time in 2019 and all of last season will return before her contract expires
Hobbs needs to consider Stringer's age, past health problems, current health and LOA extensions already given when and if Vivian says she needs more time if she isn't ready by June 19th . Hobbs then should offer administrative position and go out and find a replacement.
Lute's school was either U of A, UA or UArizona (which is current, but not used by many fans). UOA not so much. And that example is perhaps closest to Vivian's and the school did struggle and his indecision did throw the whole coaching situation into a mess. However, he remained beloved, periodically attending practices and games over the years, including a women's game where he was announced, about a year before he passed.
And yes, I agree with all those examples, and I think some others just lurking at the back of my mind. As you say, it is the lack of communication that is the worst of it.
In all I’ve know Vivian, she is so totally nice and genuine. I know there are people on here friendly with CVS even more so, and are probably staying quiet. It’s very sad to see her name dragged on here, but I understand everyone’s frustration. This whole situation makes me very sad
Dragging her name or stating facts? Many have said the same about the lack of information being told to the fans who actually DONATE and SUPPORT Rutgers sports programs. The she’s so nice is an overused term . They’re all so nice until the team doesn’t meet expectations. Health is one thing…anything else is just selfishness on her part.My feeling is this is about $$$$$$ …it always is. She wants something more than what is being offered in that new contract she signed. More than likely additional severance on top of what the contract actually says.
How much more could she want she already gets paid the full contract when she gets moved up to her “administrative position “; this whole thing is all about money and it’s just disgusting as she tries to suck every last dollar out of Rutgers
I will just conjecture here that beyond her newest extended contract she is now possibly seeking additional long term things for her family. Equal to what some coaches in men’s sports perhaps have. Someone may have put a little birdie in her ear saying “ hey you deserve more .” If it’s simply due to health and she needs more time fine but the eerie quiet from Rutgers says it is more than that.
I doubt it. The long term contract at her age was the so-called golden parachute, I think.
Here's the thing - leaving what has happened since out of it - how many fans would be happy giving CVS a million dollar plus per year contract for 5 years after the NCAA's in 2021? I actually am not one of the ones upset about it, per se, but many are I think. Here's the thing:
As I said earlier, this contract was signed after Vivian took a team to the NCAA tournament and was, IIRC, a high seed in the B1G tournament. Yes, the season never-the-less ended disappointingly and Rutgers could have offered less, etc., but Rutgers would have looked really bad (I don't care who the coach is, race, gender, HOF) saying - "well, we're happy we made the NCAA's, but deep runs only are acceptable and we don't care what you have done here in the past because we don't think you can do it again, so goodbye". Bad optics and bad optics for other coaches, this was confirmed for me by an athletic department person out here in AZ. Not that it couldn't be done, but not a win / win.
My disappointment, I have said repeatedly, isn't even that Rutgers can't say much, because what you can say about personnel issues relating to health, leaves and the like is pretty restricted. My objection is that the seem rudderless in this situation, without any clear direction of action or (so far as I can see) any acknowledgement of how disappointing and program damaging this past season was.
I'm confused - so if she retires from coaching she gets the "golden parachute" money in the contract. I thought that was the whole point of the contract. What more is there to suck out - she isn't getting performance bonuses and didn't even get credit for the wins / losses this season (and I don't think she expected it to be so poor).
Not sure what more money you think she could want - another contract? Doubtful, this one extends till she is in her late 70's I believe. I quite frankly think she just wants to come back as the coach and believes she can still do a good job. Many may not agree, or differ on the definition of "good", but the fact she thinks that - assuming she does - does not make her evil.
It’s only a golden parachute at the time of the signing. Many things have come about since covid, civil unrest and the new NIL deal for student athlete’s. Don’t ever believe there has not been someone talking to CVS. In 2022 someone would have released anonymously if it were medical in scope. Like I said CBS gains nothing by not opening up about any major health issue. Time will tell … first it was covid and her adult daughter who is compromised by a health issue for years. Then it was she was mentally tired and needed rest . Then it was…we’re still waiting 1+ years later.It is the threat of media negativity that is driving Rutgers to maintain quiet. That and the fact she is a female ,HOF coach .Personally I hope Big Tim is back in 2022/2023. How’s the portal and recruiting doing? Very , very silent and that doesn’t bode well for us at this point.U expect by May 15 2022 we will either way.
The rest of the athletic department is not very happy about this situation to say the least and that’s factual!!
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anon_ivydyf0amkzay
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Her time to coach has come and gone. Her style no longer works so whether she is healthy or not is not the issue. When the LOA is up get an up and comer here as a coach for God ‘s sake. She has been well rewarded financially here for her success at RU.
A person's age should have nothing to do with it.
( But clearly that's not the issue here).
Sorry I’ll disagree since though I’m 72 and in better shape than most and LOOK 8-10 years younger ( full head of hair and almost no grey) and still can walk and chew gum at the same time the proof lies in the facts. This thing that age shouldn’t be a factor is well over abused . Just look at our leaders in DC from both parties who continuously are an embarrassment to the country. If you want to continue to hold that job as you age then you should be tested and it should be a test of physical dexterity and mental acuteness. I know of several that are well past the time of barely functioning. Fortunately I prefer retirement and able to live a simple and comfortable existence. It is time for Stringer to pack it in and move aside. Plenty of good up and coming coaches out there.
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anon_ivydyf0amkzay
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Sorry but age can have a LOT to do with it…sorry if that’s not touchy-feely or PC enough. In her case I just think the game has moved beyond her very successful but dated scheme. That’s not a knock, it’s just how things go. In the future, dawn staley herself, will have to deal with this. It isn’t an indictment on the individual. It’s reality.
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I'm not convinced age is never a factor - but as someone noted that isn't the issue folks are having with Vivian - and I assume wasn't an issue with Gary Blair or (currently) Doug Bruno. You don't have to be old to have a "successful but dated scheme".
Age plus health concern.
Age not a serious problem if in great health.
Poor health is a concern at any age, but the older one gets he harder to recover quickly from a serious health problem.
My opinion it's CVS' health that is a problem and at her age a big one
Seeing Stringer had to take part of 2019 off ( fatigue) and all of last year ( no one really knows) with extentions given because she wasn't able to return at the end of first and second extensions
makes Vivian's age a factor in my belief she might not be up to the rigors of coaching the full term of her contract and needs to be moved into an administrative position.
As for people saying game has passed her by, RU WBB has been improving ( not counting last season disaster) under Stringer's coaching, so I don't hold with the theory the game has passed her by, but will admit her type of game-day strategy is a hard one to be a championship contender because it takes certain types of players to make it thrive and Vivian gets enough of them to make a winning program, even now, but doesn't get enough on the roster to be considered a championship type of program that is a threat to take it all
Looking at most programs you can say coach isn't championship material because most programs are not championship contenders
But I do understand why people say game has passed her by.
At one time RUWBB was among the cream of crop when it came to NCAA WBB and about the only RU sports program that could be bragged about every year.
Now it just wins , but never enough and at end of season not a lock to go to dance, just good enough to be considered and when invited doesn't seem to have staying power.
Which makes fans upset and wanting to bring insomeone who they feel can win and win big in the Tourney , which is something Stringer hasn't done in a long time.
Age not a serious problem if in great health.
Poor health is a concern at any age, but the older one gets he harder to recover quickly from a serious health problem.
My opinion it's CVS' health that is a problem and at her age a big one
Seeing Stringer had to take part of 2019 off ( fatigue) and all of last year ( no one really knows) with extentions given because she wasn't able to return at the end of first and second extensions
makes Vivian's age a factor in my belief she might not be up to the rigors of coaching the full term of her contract and needs to be moved into an administrative position.
As for people saying game has passed her by, RU WBB has been improving ( not counting last season disaster) under Stringer's coaching, so I don't hold with the theory the game has passed her by, but will admit her type of game-day strategy is a hard one to be a championship contender because it takes certain types of players to make it thrive and Vivian gets enough of them to make a winning program, even now, but doesn't get enough on the roster to be considered a championship type of program that is a threat to take it all
Looking at most programs you can say coach isn't championship material because most programs are not championship contenders
But I do understand why people say game has passed her by.
At one time RUWBB was among the cream of crop when it came to NCAA WBB and about the only RU sports program that could be bragged about every year.
Now it just wins , but never enough and at end of season not a lock to go to dance, just good enough to be considered and when invited doesn't seem to have staying power.
Which makes fans upset and wanting to bring insomeone who they feel can win and win big in the Tourney , which is something Stringer hasn't done in a long time.
