The Legacy of Schiano, the Present under Flood and the Future of Rutgers Football

[Greene Rice FIG]

As a big Rutgers basketball fan I couldn't imagine what i would think of the coach that eventually turned this thing around.

We have a 50,000 seat stadium because of Schiano. We are in the B1G because of Schiano. Perhaps we have a bad basketball team because of him, but that isn't part of the argument.

I find it almost disturbing people discrediting what he did here. I have little doubt he would have success recruiting and coaching in the B1G.

 

[50 yd line RR]

htdrhtd

Why would Schiano want any of our current coaches?

Or is that your point?

Im serious, if Schiano gets hired somewhere else, is he going to raid this coaching staff of any of his guys? He did it the past.That should be another factor in the Flood end of year review.
Conversely if he were hired here again, and he retained some of his old staff. That would be less coaches we would have to buy out of their contract. Hypothetical I know, I don't think he is coming back, but you never know.

 

[madscientistRU09]

Those who laugh at Schiano and worship Flood better watch out when he goes to Miami, he will recruit circles around Flood and take much of NJ talent. There is still is a lot of admiration for Schiano in NJ high schools, his NFL experience will only help him. He is a better candidate than coming out as a DC from Miami 2000, and a lot of decent P5 schools (maybe not the best of best, but higher mid-tier schools ) will be looking at him.

It will be a nightmare scenario for RU when GS returns to college, especially if he ends up at a BIG10 school.

 

[Kbee3]

"Those who laugh at Schiano and worship Flood better watch out when he goes to Miami, he will recruit circles around Flood and take much of NJ talent."


Isn't Harbaugh already doing that ?
Reminds me of an old Allman Brothers song..."You Can't Lose What You Never Had."

 

[MoobyCow]

Those who laugh at Schiano and worship Flood better watch out when he goes to Miami, he will recruit circles around Flood and take much of NJ talent. There is still is a lot of admiration for Schiano in NJ high schools, his NFL experience will only help him. He is a better candidate than coming out as a DC from Miami 2000, and a lot of decent P5 schools (maybe not the best of best, but higher mid-tier schools ) will be looking at him.

It will be a nightmare scenario for RU when GS returns to college, especially if he ends up at a BIG10 school.

We can't possibly get less of the top NJ recruits than we are currently getting.

 

[Kbee3]

We can't possible get less of the top NJ recruits than we are currently getting.

And THAT reminds me of another song...Elvis Costello's "Less Than Zero."

 

[snowboarder]

The OP has it all in perspective. Unfortunately, many of you just don't get it. What Greg did is nothing short of miraculous. We were a disaster when he took over, we were part of the the national conversation when he left.
I hate the way he left but it was a once in a lifetime opportunity for him.
Lets try and find a coach anywhere with his credentials:
National College Coach of the Year
Former NFL Head Coach
New Jersey Ties
Experience with NJ media and HS Football Landscape
Proven program builder

 

[RU2007RSLN2010]

Charlie Weiss has a few of those credentials.

 

[rutgersnyc]

We became the joke of college football under Shea. Everything the OP says about Schiano is true. Flood's biggest sin is the lack of team morals - having 5 defensive players/starters go on some gangsta inspired crime spree is nothing short of disgraceful. It is HIS team and he has embarrassed the university. He needs to be fired. I know we are poor and cannot afford much but this has to be fixed now.

 

[madscientistRU09]

We became the joke of college football under Shea. Everything the OP says about Schiano is true. Flood's biggest sin is the lack of team morals - having 5 defensive players/starters go on some gangsta inspired crime spree is nothing short of disgraceful. It is HIS team and he has embarrassed the university. He needs to be fired. I know we are poor and cannot afford much but this has to be fixed now.

Exactly...people are so quick to absolve Flood of any responsibility, but he is the one that sets the disciplinary tone. Does anyone think that these players would have tried this crap under Schiano??? Flood is trying too hard to be the "cool dad" to these kids, you can see it in their play. The whole "nice guy Kyle Flood" thing is just a joke, we don't need our coach to be the team's buddy, we need him to be an authority figure, a mentor, and a leader.

 

[RUMassAlum]

Who remembers what Rutgers Football was like during the late 90s and early part of 2000? Anybody? When people say Rutgers used to be the laughing stock of College Football, they were actually being nice. We were worse than that. Unless you lived through that experience, you won't understand how bad we truly were at that time.

Then came Greg Schiano. At the time, Greg wasn't a high profile, highly paid coach. he was just a coach with a vision of what Rutgers football should be. Under Greg, these are the things that happened:

• First he put a focus on education - true student athletes. Hence, the APR standings.
• Players were molded to be good citizens - the term "Rutgers Men" was born. Belichick said, Rutgers players doesn't need to be taught certain things - he was talking about ethics, discipline and hard work.
• A football identity was born - Rutgers football was hard nose, pro-style, smash mouth football with an emphasis on Defense and running the ball.
• Then 2006 happened - 2006 galvanized the entire state like no other event in the history of Rutgers. Plenty of NJ residents who didn't even know Rutgers had a football team became "fans". You want to change the attitude of NJ residents towards RU Football? We need more 2006.
• The biggest effect of 2006 was for recruiting. LEGIONS of HS NJ players instantly became Rutgers fans. From North Jersey to South Jersey. The kids grew up Rutgers and dream of playing for Rutgers. Recruiting became easier as relationships were built. The recruiting wall around Jersey started to be built. Yes, kids still left. But make no mistake, it was going to be a battle to pry Jersey kids away from Rutgers. Because of this, schools became picky in devoting resources to go after Jersey kids, because they knew it would be dog fight with Rutgers.
• As a result of all of this - Rutgers Football Marketing Identity was born - the Chop, the Block R, the Swarm. How many cars today do you see with the block R versus back in the 90s? From clothes, hats, stickers, flags, you name it, how much merchandise are now in common NJ households that has Rutgers?

What Greg built - transcended mere wins and losses. Yes, he never won the Big East. Yes, we had WTF losses. But guess what? Because of Greg - the RUTGERS PRIDE WAS BUILT.

Now fast forward to today. Under Flood, just about every facet of the program has regressed - in some cases, in embarrassing fashion. Let me ask this simple question - what is the identity of the team today? Actually let's simplify, what type of defense do we play? What happened to the Swarm? In terms of offense, are we really a North East smash mouth team, when we don't have TEs and FBs that can block. Field position is an adventure with the kickers we have. Are we really trying to play smash mouth with a westcoast QB? Again, what is our identity????!!!

The Chop is just about gone. Block R stickers on cars are becoming less. The arrests. The plummeting APR. Everything Greg built is vanishing away before our very eyes.

Under Flood, we are heading towards what the program looked like BEFORE Greg. So here we are. At the brink of being back in the 90s. Here is what many people don't understand. We lucked into Greg coming here. If we continue on the current path, it is going to take the same amount of luck to find "the next Greg". What are the chances of that happening? This is why it is imperative to STOP THE BLEEDING. To stop what Flood is destroying. Because fixing it will be an absolute monumental task. You essentially need to find the "next Greg". Do you guys think that once the B1G money rolls in that we can just "flip" the switch? High priced coaches like Urban Meyer maybe football geniuses but he doesn't understand Jersey culture and he certainly will not invent the next "Block R". The problem Flood is creating will not be fixed by "money".

So for the love of all things good Rutgers, we need to rid ourselves of the nightmare that is Kyle Flood.

I'm now teaching in the Bergen Cty high school I went to myself in the mid-1990's and one of the astounding things I've noticed is the amount of RU apparel kids are wearing these days. Not just male/athletes but girls, band members, honors students, etc. This was unheard of 20 years ago. Maybe one or two kids back then had a Rutgers sweatshirt if their older sibling or cousin went there. But now everyday the hallways are littered with students wearing RU gear. I tell kids I went to RU and they are impressed.

While I agree Greg wasn't the best game day coach and had indeed the program had plateaued by year 11, the guy put Rutgers on the map within it's own state! Can't dispute that one bit.

Thanks 2055 for the most articulate, accurate big picture view I've read of the situation. So many Flood supporters or just plain fans just don't have that long term, detailed perspective. You stated it extremely well. Flood has led the program to a state of sadness and embarrassment. All he had to do was maintain but Flood's been in over his head.

 

[NotInRHouse]

#MakeRutgersGreatAgain #GregCanFixIt

 

[BoogieKnight]

Wait....so Flood has the best record of ANY Rutgers head coach since we stopped playing a steady diet of Lehigh, Princeton, Lafayette, Colgate, Boston U., Delaware, Columbia, Holy Cross, and Bucknell ? And some here wanna fly an airplane overhead calling for his firing ?
Hmmm. How did the bar get raised here so high so fast ?

Different circumstances. Flood inherited the program when it was in it's best and most FBS-ready shape in it's history. And while I agree in principle with what you are suggesting, we should not wait until he falls under .500...and he will...to fire him

 

[yesrutgers01]

Why is it when fans post they would not want Greg back now, they are accused of not appreciating what he did?

 

[Rufan922]

GS could definitely start to turn our s***-show around. I doubt he'd come back with JH as the AD though.

 

[PaKnight]

The OP has it all in perspective. Unfortunately, many of you just don't get it. What Greg did is nothing short of miraculous. We were a disaster when he took over, we were part of the the national conversation when he left.
I hate the way he left but it was a once in a lifetime opportunity for him.
Lets try and find a coach anywhere with his credentials:
National College Coach of the Year
Former NFL Head Coach
New Jersey Ties
Experience with NJ media and HS Football Landscape
Proven program builder

We were part of the national conversation in 2006.

 

[PaKnight]

Why is it when fans post they would not want Greg back now, they are accused of not appreciating what he did?

People see things in black and white, good and bad, and don't recognize that there are more than one side to an issue.

 

[rutgersal]

GS could definitely start to turn our shit-show around. I doubt he'd come back with JH as the AD though.

Schiano would want a situation where the AD reports to him.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Schiano would want a situation where the AD reports to him.

And knowing the lay of the land, he would want assurance of certain amount of funds for the program.

 

[Pritz99]

yesrutgers01 -- While not wanting Schiano to come back is not synonymous not appreciating what he did, it seems that very often they go hand in hand. I understand there are some arguable reasons not to rehire Schiano, and I think the debate is a valid one, but denying Schiano's accomplishments has the effect of convincing me those posters are crackpots. If some poster believes that Schiano's achievements are not extensive, how can their conclusions be less than ludicrous?

 

[yesrutgers01]

yesrutgers01 -- While not wanting Schiano to come back is not synonymous not appreciating what he did, it seems that very often they go hand in hand. I understand there are some arguable reasons not to rehire Schiano, and I think the debate is a valid one, but denying Schiano's accomplishments has the effect of convincing me those posters are crackpots. If some poster believes that Schiano's achievements are not extensive, how can their conclusions be less than ludicrous?

So, here we go again. There are ZERO people on here who do not appreciate what Greg did. Many that wouldn't want him back(mostly with the thought that he has a ceiling that he will not break us through) but NO ONE downplays what he did for this program.
Why is this thought so hard to get through to some of you.

 

[Pritz99]

yesrutgers01,

READ the posts. There are some (admittedly not many) that have ZERO appreciation for what he's done. There are others that belittle what he has done. Again...read the posts...it was just bad under Shea...Graber and Anderson were not so bad...he couldn't beat anybody worthwhile, just played cupcakes to inflate his record, couldn't get all the best players in NJ...etc, etc.

The majority (maybe even the vast majority) of posters have varying degrees of appreciation for whta he has done, but it's that small number that seem to post every 3rd message that drive me nuts. I'd build a monument to him. I'd have a "Greg Schiano Day." I'd name the Hale Center for him.

And I understand some of the reasons those that DO appreciate him don't want him back. I'm not 100% sure it would work. Not even 75% sure. 50%? Damn, I just don't f'n know. It just seems to have a far sight more potential to be successful that any other reasonably attainable alternative.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Pritz- all those things are their opinion of his game day coaching and recruiting. Those same people, and I know who they are, have all said numerous times, that Greg did the nearly impossible and created a respectful program. Those are two completely different things.

Hey P-Tucky- I know you are one of the posters he is talking about...you have posted until I am sure you are sick of saying it but could you again set the record straight about what you do appreciate about Schiano all while not wanting him back. Maybe that will help.

Here is mine:
Greg should be number one in our HOF. We would not be here without him and doubt there are many others who would have stuck it out as long or gave the drive and vision to do what he did. Greg created "family" not just a term but the truth. He put together a program that allowed our players to excell in the classroom, football field and in life.
That said, he would not be a disaster as a hire but I feel we would have a limited ceiling. Just my opinion but I don't think we sniff a B1GE championship with him but have many 5-8 win seasons.

 

[derleider]

Why is it when fans post they would not want Greg back now, they are accused of not appreciating what he did?

Because the people who do want him back cant really come up with good arguments for having him back given his actual record in the good years.

 

[coldsprings]

We were part of the national conversation in 2006.

The day after the Louisville game, I was delivering a leadership workshop in a city far from NJ. Before the workshop began, the guys over morning coffee were all talking about the game. But they were also taking about how they admired the the RU program and Schiano. Our program had national respect not only for its accomplishments but for how it was run. We should be so lucky to get him back and rebuild what Flood is destroying..

 

[RU31trap]

The day after the Louisville game, I was delivering a leadership workshop in a city far from NJ. Before the workshop began, the guys over morning coffee were all talking about the game. But they were also taking about how they admired the the RU program and Schiano. Our program had national respect not only for its accomplishments but for how it was run. We should be so lucky to get him back and rebuild what Flood is destroying..

Yes he did a great deal of good for the program but let's be honest the stars lined up for him in the 2006 season. He caught OC's off guard with his defensive schemes and offensively he had a solid O-Line, QB and receivers, his RB was excellent. In 2007 things changed, perhaps opposing teams took us a bit more seriously which is why we finished 7-5 with basically the same team. Schiano's biggest asset was also his biggest weakness. He gave the impression that he recruited well but in reality we were losing 90% of NJ's blue chip players to other schools. On occasion he tried to bring in borderline kids who were very good athletes but the school usually rejected his appeal. With Donna Shalala gone at Miami he should turn that program around like Saban, Miles or Meyer. I can only wish him the best.

 

[Kbee3]

Because the people who do want him back cant really come up with good arguments for having him back given his actual record in the good years.

First, Schiano is NOT coming back here.
That being said, all one has to do to come up with a good argument for wanting him back is to have lived through the Flood years, the Shea years, the Graber years, and the Anderson years. Since Rutgers made the move to the Big Time and ceased having Princeton or Quantico Marines as their Big Game, all of the other head coaches we have had here have been the reasons Schiano looked so good. You DO recall that the guy immediately before GS won exactly 11 games in five years ? How'd you like to try to build on THAT foundation.....in New Jersey ?
I don't know who you guys think can come in here and make RU competitive with the teams that you seem to think we should suddenly be competitive with. Frankly, the lists I've seen here have been less than impressive.
And I think you way underestimate the difficulty of recruiting elite NJ high school players to stay here in New Jersey and play for their state university.

 

[Pritz99]

yesrutgers01,

I sincerely hope you are right about this board. Honestly. You seem to understand what was happening in the 80s and 90s.

But look at ru31trap's post: Schiano was lucky. Caught everyone by surprise, even though most could see the positive coming. Schiano recruiting was a myth. "offensively he had a solid O-Line, QB and receivers, his RB was excellent" (They weren't holdovers from the Shea years, were they?)

The best he could come up with was a left handed compliment. I stand by what I perceive : There are some on this board who refuse to recognize Schiano for what he did. I praise you and others for seeing the reality, and respect your belief that he is not the answer for us now. I believe he is, pa rticularly for the short term; but I don't have a crystal ball. And I 've not seen a rational (chance)name with credentials that even come close.

What ever they do, WE DO hope they get it right.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Because the people who do want him back cant really come up with good arguments for having him back given his actual record in the good years.

That is not the argument.

Find me a coach RU can realistically get who has a better record than GS, considering opponents. I think the only one is Pelini.

And plenty of posters have been making the absurd argument that Flood is no worse than GS, which in and of itself is extreme ingratitude, even though seeing some of the propagators a lot of is flaming or arguing for the sake of it.

 

[lighty]

And plenty of posters have been making the absurd argument that Flood is no worse than GS, which in and of itself is extreme ingratitude, even though seeing some of the propagators a lot of is flaming or arguing for the sake of it.

There are definitely some around here that hated Schiano so much they HOPED Flood would surpass him in every way. I still remember early on in Flood's reign when people bragged how his recruiting approach was so much better than Schiano's. While Greg would hit on a very great players, Flood was stocking the cupboard in every position. Years later, that cupboard is not looking so good.

People praised Flood's game day coaching early on every time he had a good game. Year's later, we've seen plenty of awful gameday performances and you rarely hear people say Flood is a good game day coach anymore.

To me, many of Flood's earliest supporters were people who hated Schiano. They felt jaded that Schiano never won the championship he promised... without realizing that any coach worth anything promising championships. It's the coaches that don't make such promises that you should be worried about.

And no, I don't consider RU's four-way tie to be a championship. People hear mocked UCONN fans when they bragged about co-winning a title with West Virginia. Sharing it with 3 other teams makes that an even weaker argument.

 

[MoobyCow]

Because the people who do want him back cant really come up with good arguments for having him back given his actual record in the good years.

I can. Given his average Massey ratings finish of 35-39 in four of his last 5 years we would be a solid 4th in the East and 7th in conference vs last in the East and 13th.

Those numbers put him somewhere between Neb and Minn last year and NW and Penn St this year. That is an improvement over where we are, even if it isn't 'win the conference' improvement.

That is the level of play assuming Schiano got no bump at all in recruiting from being in the Big Ten.

This is from a guy who doesn't particularly want Schiano back.

 

[C0bra Kai]

Who remembers what Rutgers Football was like during the late 90s and early part of 2000? Anybody? When people say Rutgers used to be the laughing stock of College Football, they were actually being nice. We were worse than that. Unless you lived through that experience, you won't understand how bad we truly were at that time.

Then came Greg Schiano. At the time, Greg wasn't a high profile, highly paid coach. he was just a coach with a vision of what Rutgers football should be. Under Greg, these are the things that happened:

• First he put a focus on education - true student athletes. Hence, the APR standings.
• Players were molded to be good citizens - the term "Rutgers Men" was born. Belichick said, Rutgers players doesn't need to be taught certain things - he was talking about ethics, discipline and hard work.
• A football identity was born - Rutgers football was hard nose, pro-style, smash mouth football with an emphasis on Defense and running the ball.
• Then 2006 happened - 2006 galvanized the entire state like no other event in the history of Rutgers. Plenty of NJ residents who didn't even know Rutgers had a football team became "fans". You want to change the attitude of NJ residents towards RU Football? We need more 2006.
• The biggest effect of 2006 was for recruiting. LEGIONS of HS NJ players instantly became Rutgers fans. From North Jersey to South Jersey. The kids grew up Rutgers and dream of playing for Rutgers. Recruiting became easier as relationships were built. The recruiting wall around Jersey started to be built. Yes, kids still left. But make no mistake, it was going to be a battle to pry Jersey kids away from Rutgers. Because of this, schools became picky in devoting resources to go after Jersey kids, because they knew it would be dog fight with Rutgers.
• As a result of all of this - Rutgers Football Marketing Identity was born - the Chop, the Block R, the Swarm. How many cars today do you see with the block R versus back in the 90s? From clothes, hats, stickers, flags, you name it, how much merchandise are now in common NJ households that has Rutgers?

What Greg built - transcended mere wins and losses. Yes, he never won the Big East. Yes, we had WTF losses. But guess what? Because of Greg - the RUTGERS PRIDE WAS BUILT.

Now fast forward to today. Under Flood, just about every facet of the program has regressed - in some cases, in embarrassing fashion. Let me ask this simple question - what is the identity of the team today? Actually let's simplify, what type of defense do we play? What happened to the Swarm? In terms of offense, are we really a North East smash mouth team, when we don't have TEs and FBs that can block. Field position is an adventure with the kickers we have. Are we really trying to play smash mouth with a westcoast QB? Again, what is our identity????!!!

The Chop is just about gone. Block R stickers on cars are becoming less. The arrests. The plummeting APR. Everything Greg built is vanishing away before our very eyes.

Under Flood, we are heading towards what the program looked like BEFORE Greg. So here we are. At the brink of being back in the 90s. Here is what many people don't understand. We lucked into Greg coming here. If we continue on the current path, it is going to take the same amount of luck to find "the next Greg". What are the chances of that happening? This is why it is imperative to STOP THE BLEEDING. To stop what Flood is destroying. Because fixing it will be an absolute monumental task. You essentially need to find the "next Greg". Do you guys think that once the B1G money rolls in that we can just "flip" the switch? High priced coaches like Urban Meyer maybe football geniuses but he doesn't understand Jersey culture and he certainly will not invent the next "Block R". The problem Flood is creating will not be fixed by "money".

So for the love of all things good Rutgers, we need to rid ourselves of the nightmare that is Kyle Flood.

Speak it brother!!!