The spike why?

[Wild_Knight]

Seems clear to me that the last thing we would want to do is stop the clock in winning FG range. We did, and we won, but that doesn't make it the right decision. I think we helped IU by doing that, 1) by stopping the clock to save them time, 2) by giving them time to strategize, and 3)saving them a timeout.

Can someone suggest a convincing reason why it was the right call at that moment ?

 

[Knight Shift]

I think this issue was covered ad nauseum in this thread:
http://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/clock-management-at-the-end.41003/page-3#post-786413

Do we need a separate thread on the spike?

 

[Wild_Knight]

Can you just give me the foremost compelling reason then to end this thread then ? The only thing I could come up with is needing extra time to plan that last series....but professional coaches shouldn't have needed that time. Instead it helped IU.

 

[Caliknight]

The spikes begs the question- Did we lose by winning?

 

[kupuna133]

Seems clear to me that the last thing we would want to do is stop the clock in winning FG range. We did, and we won, but that doesn't make it the right decision. I think we helped IU by doing that, 1) by stopping the clock to save them time, 2) by giving them time to strategize, and 3)saving them a timeout.

Can someone suggest a convincing reason why it was the right call at that moment ?

The first down spike was the issue in the Michigan State game as well. Not learning from mistakes.

 

[wheezer]

I think this issue was covered ad nauseum in this thread:
http://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/clock-management-at-the-end.41003/page-3#post-786413

Do we need a separate thread on the spike?

------------
so the thread made you nauseous too?

 

[Wild_Knight]

Cali-Not every decision in a win is necessarily the right decision, nor is every decision in a loss the wrong decision. Still asking for one good reason for the spike.

 

[ArminRU]

There is no reason to spike after you make a first down. No idea why we did it twice in a row.

 

[Blitz8RUCrazy]

Laviano was just practicing how to spike the ball on a non 4th down play. He did well with that one. Good improvement from the MSU game! [thumb2]

 

[RU76]

Someone's alter ego wishes to revive an argument that was lost in the earlier thread. He lost it then not because the team did or did not want to use a timeout to kill the clock or even whether or not it was a correct decision, He lost it because he is a loser who feels the need to advance a negatard agenda (you know, either the coach, the QB, the kicker, all the above or who knows what, sucks).

 

[Knight Shift]

------------
so the thread made you nauseous too?

Yes. So many things to celebrate after a big comeback win, and over 150 posts analyzing why when we kicked the field goal there was 0:00 on the clock. Ponderous.

 

[knightfan7]

Jeeze it's like some here never watched football before. The clock starts as soon as the ball is placed down. You spike it to make sure you have the right play called with the right personnel. You want to make sure you aren't rushed into a mistake.

Some of you try wayyyyyy to hard to find fault with whatever RU does. It was the right decision by the staff and worked. Fini.

 

[kupuna133]

How did it work at the Michigan State game? Forced the QB into a 4th down spike, Spiking on first down is not the right play especially at the MSU game. Clock wasn't the priority downs and distance were the priority. You needed all the bullets in the chamber, trying to fire with one less bullet limited the playcalling ability.

 

[Caliknight]

Cali-Not every decision in a win is necessarily the right decision, nor is every decision in a loss the wrong decision. Still asking for one good reason for the spike.

Go look in the 4 page other thread. A very acceptable reason has been offered.

Of is your thread on the topic special?

 

[wheezer]

 

[knightfan7]

How did it work at the Michigan State game? Forced the QB into a 4th down spike, Spiking on first down is not the right play especially at the MSU game. Clock wasn't the priority downs and distance were the priority. You needed all the bullets in the chamber, trying to fire with one less bullet limited the playcalling ability.

Christ. It didn't have a chance to end up working because Laviano was sacked on 3rd down. If he didn't spike it on 1st you can't say with any certainty RU even gets 3 plays depending on what happens. Let's stop looking at everything so easily in hindsight. You have to look at it in real time, not sitting on your couch 10 days later.

One thing everyone is missing (on purpose?) is the two end of games were different in a huge way. Against MSU, Rutgers needed a TD to tie. Against Indiana, Rutgers needed a FG to win.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Yes. So many things to celebrate after a big comeback win, and over 150 posts analyzing why when we kicked the field goal there was 0:00 on the clock. Ponderous.

I spent the better part of the day listening to the FAN for Mets reaction. There were about 250 calls about sitting Duda. This is what sports conversations are about. Dissecting decisions--whether your team wins or not. The Mets have just beaten 3 Cy Young award winners in 4 games and people are wondering aloud if sitting Duda is the right move or not.

The only thing that is ponderous is explaining why the clock management wasn't "perfect" and people still contorting themselves to argue it was.

I'll help you out. Your best reply at this point is to say "yeah it wasn't but we won, so I'm happy." Which is the position I've taken all along.

 

[kupuna133]

Christ. It didn't have a chance to end up working because Laviano was sacked on 3rd down. If he didn't spike it on 1st you can't say with any certainty RU even gets 3 plays depending on what happens. Let's stop looking at everything so easily in hindsight. You have to look at it in real time, not sitting on your couch 10 days later.

One thing everyone is missing (on purpose?) is the two end of games were different in a huge way. Against MSU, Rutgers needed a TD to tie. Against Indiana, Rutgers needed a FG to win.

It's funny you say 10 days later with perfect hindsight. I said the same thing real time. You make my point for me though by saying there is no certainty that RU even gets three plays. That sums it up. Why would you cut your chances by spiking it. You do realize that these 2 minute drives should be well scripted and practiced for months at this point. Making a first and ten call from the 45 with x-amount of time should be easy. Follow the script. You do not need to burn a down at a critical time of the game when that is your most precious commodity. You do not even have to think it should all be scripted and everyone should be aware of what the options are.

 

[biazza38]

The spike was done to stop the clock without using a timeout. Indiana didn't have enough timeouts the prevent us from milking the clock. I refuse to read this thread because RU played it perfectly.
We stopped the clock so we could take our time with the next play. We were inside the 20. We didn't need 3 plays to set up a Fg.

 

[biazza38]

There is no reason to spike after you make a first down. No idea why we did it twice in a row.

Wtf are you talking about. Do you ever watch college football. That's precisely when teams spike the ball.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

The spike was done to stop the clock without using a timeout. Indiana didn't have enough timeouts the prevent us from milking the clock. I refuse to read this thread because RU played it perfectly.
We stopped the clock so we could take our time with the next play. We were inside the 20. We didn't need 3 plays to set up a Fg.

Why are you stopping the clock in that down, distance and time?

 

[vkj91]

Because we were always going to

Why are you stopping the clock in that down, distance and time?

I have it on good authority that our "staff of buffoons" were calling Fridge for direction but he was in the crapper. The TO gave him the chance to wipe and wash his hands before getting on the phone.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

I

Because we were always going to

I have it on good authority that our "staff of buffoons" were calling Fridge for direction but he was in the crapper. The TO gave him the chance to wipe and wash his hands before getting on the phone.

informative thanks

 

[knightfan7]

It's funny you say 10 days later with perfect hindsight. I said the same thing real time. You make my point for me though by saying there is no certainty that RU even gets three plays. That sums it up. Why would you cut your chances by spiking it. You do realize that these 2 minute drives should be well scripted and practiced for months at this point. Making a first and ten call from the 45 with x-amount of time should be easy. Follow the script. You do not need to burn a down at a critical time of the game when that is your most precious commodity. You do not even have to think it should all be scripted and everyone should be aware of what the options are.

No you can't script one two minute drill that will work week to week. You can practice what you'd like but there are too many variables such as

- Do you need a TD (MSU) or a FG (IU). One you need to spread the field, the other you can be a bit more conservative and play a little closer to the vest.

- Opponent. Different teams play different style defenses with different strengths and weaknesses. Success against one can spell disaster against someone else. Would RU be able to run the same plays against say, PSU as they would Indiana?

- Personnel . Rutgers didn't have Carroo for Indiana to worry about. Plus RU is working with a still relatively inexperienced Laviano. After MSU, I'm willing to bet they decided to go a bit slower with him if it came up again and he responded big time.

Still, I kind of understand your point but I think you're looking at it way to simplistically.

 

[BleedinRutgersRed]

The spike was done to stop the clock without using a timeout. Indiana didn't have enough timeouts the prevent us from milking the clock. I refuse to read this thread because RU played it perfectly.
We stopped the clock so we could take our time with the next play. We were inside the 20. We didn't need 3 plays to set up a Fg.

So why not spike the clock after the play clock wound down to a few seconds instead of immediately? It's a moot point and at this point no one is going to be convinced that the other side is right. You only rush to the line of scrimmage and immediately spike the ball if you need to preserve the time on the clock, which we did not. More often than not in this situation, Indiana takes a TO anyway, and then at least we get an extra down out of it. We essentially took a TO and a loss of down for the other team.

 

[kupuna133]

No you can't script one two minute drill that will work week to week. You can practice what you'd like but there are too many variables such as

- Do you need a TD (MSU) or a FG (IU). One you need to spread the field, the other you can be a bit more conservative and play a little closer to the vest.

- Opponent. Different teams play different style defenses with different strengths and weaknesses. Success against one can spell disaster against someone else. Would RU be able to run the same plays against say, PSU as they would Indiana?

- Personnel . Rutgers didn't have Carroo for Indiana to worry about. Plus RU is working with a still relatively inexperienced Laviano. After MSU, I'm willing to bet they decided to go a bit slower with him if it came up again and he responded big time.

Still, I kind of understand your point but I think you're looking at it way to simplistically.

Agree to disagree but that is the whole purpose of a two minute drill. To have a scripted set of plays to put into motion when in this situation. You script for all situations time on clock, yardage needed and down and distance.

Most teams are not playing base defenses at this point they are playing special sub defenses which are very similar and basic in nature. It is the coaches job to just plug and play in these situations.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Why are you stopping the clock in that down, distance and time?

We are all assuming that going for the FG was the only option being considered.

Why stop the Clock: To allow the OC, Ben McDaniels to think about all the options and decide the best course of action. Spiking the ball gave him 35 seconds to think it over. Based on the extra point issues, McDaniels and Flood were probably discussing.....go for the TD or settle for the FG.

Rutgers was down to two Timeouts.....I think you save the timeouts because it allows you to run any play in your playbook and not have to worry about getting out of bounds.

 

[NotInRHouse]

I spent the better part of the day listening to the FAN for Mets reaction. There were about 250 calls about sitting Duda. This is what sports conversations are about. Dissecting decisions--whether your team wins or not. The Mets have just beaten 3 Cy Young award winners in 4 games and people are wondering aloud if sitting Duda is the right move or not.

The only thing that is ponderous is explaining why the clock management wasn't "perfect" and people still contorting themselves to argue it was.

I'll help you out. Your best reply at this point is to say "yeah it wasn't but we won, so I'm happy." Which is the position I've taken all along.

5% thinks the coaching staff cannot be questioned no matter the result. Everything they do is perfect and they are above reproach. When asking their thoughts expect less rational and independent thought then you would get if you asked someone on the street in Pyongyang if they thought Kim Jong Un made good decisions.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

No you can't script one two minute drill that will work week to week. You can practice what you'd like but there are too many variables such as

- Do you need a TD (MSU) or a FG (IU). One you need to spread the field, the other you can be a bit more conservative and play a little closer to the vest.

- Opponent. Different teams play different style defenses with different strengths and weaknesses. Success against one can spell disaster against someone else. Would RU be able to run the same plays against say, PSU as they would Indiana?

- Personnel . Rutgers didn't have Carroo for Indiana to worry about. Plus RU is working with a still relatively inexperienced Laviano. After MSU, I'm willing to bet they decided to go a bit slower with him if it came up again and he responded big time.

Still, I kind of understand your point but I think you're looking at it way to simplistically.

Did you actually watch the game?

The down, distance and time answers all your questions.

The point being debated by people who know what they are talking about is not spike vs. TO. It's spike vs. getting set and running a play. A running clock was our friend in this situation. Stopping the clock and wasting a down helped Indiana.

And of course your 2 minute package is scripted. Do you think we're calling 1 play at a time in the 2 minute offense? That is why your side of the debate is silly.

It's being argued by people who's experience calling plays or managing the clock is limited to Madden on their XBox.

We completed a 16 yard pass for a first down. The clock is stopped as the chains move and the ball gets set. As soon as the pass is completed, Laviano is running toward the sideline to get instructions. We came to the line and spiked the ball. The next play was Martin off tackle. That bit of offensive wizzardy needed the 35 seconds of play clock to devise? Not buying it. In the meantime, we gave Indiana a free timeout.

The only things you can't do on that 1st down play are turn the ball over or get a 10 yard holding penalty. Anything else is an acceptable result and keeps the clock moving. We're on the 14 yard line at this point. Laviano taking a knee in the middle of the field is a more optimal result than spiking the ball.

 

[ru-baby]

Of course you need to force Indiana to use their timeout. Just incorrect to say otherwise. Also helps in that they cant attempt to ice the kicker. Was sure they were going to try it, but Wilson did the fake out trying to think Federico wasnt fully ready expecting the TO.

It worked out in the end, but the spike was not the correct play-when you have time outs (more than one).

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

Of course you need to force Indiana to use their timeout. Just incorrect to say otherwise. Also helps in that they cant attempt to ice the kicker. Was sure they were going to try it, but Wilson did the fake out trying to think Federico wasnt fully ready expecting the TO.

It worked out in the end, but the spike was not the correct play-when you have time outs (more than one).

Agree to Disagree.....if it's only First Down, Spike it to save the Timeouts for emergencies and to maintain the option of attacking the entire field in case you decide to go for the TD.

 

[LouDawgRU03]

How did it work at the Michigan State game? Forced the QB into a 4th down spike, Spiking on first down is not the right play especially at the MSU game. Clock wasn't the priority downs and distance were the priority. You needed all the bullets in the chamber, trying to fire with one less bullet limited the playcalling ability.

Sorry but this is 100% incorrect. TIME was the priority in the MSU game. Time = more plays. If we didn't spike the ball, most likely ~8 more seconds would have been run off the clock while trying to get the 1st down play called. So we would have only had time for 2 plays, as opposed to 3 after the spike.

Not to mention, you have a QB making his 6th ever start. It's much more desirable to give him the entire play clock to get a play and execute, not rushing to the line.

 

[biazza38]

I'm starting to think I'm taking crazy pills. I'm not a pro or anti flood guy, but some of you are so anti Flood it's hilarious. Are there really people bringing up the spike vs MSU and why it was stupid to spike against Indiana? Really people? Are you that dense? The spike verse MSU backfired because the O-line gave up a sack on third down verse a 3 man rush. Not something to worry about when all we were about to do was run. Rutgers spiked the ball because they wanted to stop the clock without using a timeout since we only had 2 left. They also didn't want to rush the O-line to the line and risk a false start since they would be rushing. After the miscommunication last week it's important to take your time.
This thread needs to end now. We had the ball with inside the 20 with less than 30 seconds to go. I'm pretty sure Indiana was not cheering on the sidelines after we spiked the ball on first down. And lastly if you don't think the clock management was anything than stellar on that drive, than you need to watch it again. We ran off 4 minutes on that drive while moving the ball about 40-50 yards. That's impressive that we were able to methodically kill the clock and not give the ball back to a senior QB on the other end.

 

[Caliknight]

Agree to Disagree.....if it's only First Down, Spike it to save the Timeouts for emergencies and to maintain the option of attacking the entire field in case you decide to go for the TD.

^ This. Not to mention they likely wanted to position the ball, which they did. Spiking or taking a t.o. doesn't really matter in this case. Running a stretch play simply to take time off the clock is detrimental to what the actual objective clearly is.

 

[kupuna133]

Sorry but this is 100% incorrect. TIME was the priority in the MSU game. Time = more plays. If we didn't spike the ball, most likely ~8 more seconds would have been run off the clock while trying to get the 1st down play called. So we would have only had time for 2 plays, as opposed to 3 after the spike.

Not to mention, you have a QB making his 6th ever start. It's much more desirable to give him the entire play clock to get a play and execute, not rushing to the line.

100% incorrect. Wow. Have you ever played the game? Or been part of practices leading up to a game. 2 minute drills are practiced and scripted beginning in spring ball. It should never take 8 seconds to call a play. Downs and chances to advance are the most important thing at that point. Spiking on first down lead to the disaster on fourth in the MSU game. Time was not the issue. Down and distance were the issue.

 

[bac2therac]

I spent the better part of the day listening to the FAN for Mets reaction. There were about 250 calls about sitting Duda. This is what sports conversations are about. Dissecting decisions--whether your team wins or not. The Mets have just beaten 3 Cy Young award winners in 4 games and people are wondering aloud if sitting Duda is the right move or not.

The only thing that is ponderous is explaining why the clock management wasn't "perfect" and people still contorting themselves to argue it was.

I'll help you out. Your best reply at this point is to say "yeah it wasn't but we won, so I'm happy." Which is the position I've taken all along.

thank you...holy crap, we won the fricking game...WE KNOW THAT.....there seems to be a new board police which decides to shout down every topic of discussion that they don't like. There are plenty of things to discuss in the Indiana game. Why are people taking hissy fits about this subject. If you don't like it don't read it, stop policing it. If the thread is that outrageous and negative it will fall off the first page.

Its important to discuss because its something that Laviano did the last game and he did it here too. I think its up for debate on whether its the right call.

 

[derleider]

The first down spike was the issue in the Michigan State game as well. Not learning from mistakes.

The first down spike was the right call against Michigan State. Remember - Laviano is a rookie QB, not Tom Brady. You cant expect him to engineer a drive on the fly like that without stopping the clock.

In this case, I think they knew they could run the clock all the way down if they wanted, so they ordered the spike to make SURE that we didnt get a repeat of MSU - where there is confusion at the end.

 

[yesrutgers01]

OP just opened my eyes...It makes me question again why we did not replace Nova at halftime during the VaTech game. Could someone please explain that to me. thx

 

[kupuna133]

The first down spike was the right call against Michigan State. Remember - Laviano is a rookie QB, not Tom Brady. You cant expect him to engineer a drive on the fly like that without stopping the clock.

In this case, I think they knew they could run the clock all the way down if they wanted, so they ordered the spike to make SURE that we didnt get a repeat of MSU - where there is confusion at the end.

Do you think it is easier to score a touchdown from 45 yards out with a 1st year qb with 3 plays or 4 at your discretion? It is scripted what you run on first down in a 2 minute drill. Run a risk free short sideline route. If you catch it you either get a couple yards and not much time off the clock or you break it wide open for multiple yards . If you miss it same as spike but you took a shot at advancement. All that spiking it does is give you one less down.

 

[yesrutgers01]

the first down spikes seem to be the staff decision and the thought must be that they feel better with one less down rather then rushing the play with a super young OL and QB. I don't completely disagree. But, I may have done it differently myself. But here is the thing "I always say that I know what I don't know" and I know one thing for sure...I do not spend 12 hours a day with these kids so I have no freaking clue what is the right way to go in that situation and will rely on the coaches who I am sure know more then I do.
I am pretty good at playing Madden though