This is exactly why I have been saying for years now that it should just be the P5 conference champions. A committee would exist solely to determine the rankings of those five teams so they can sort out who plays who, and that is it. Everything else is decided on the field, and nobody can say they were snubbed because everyone who isn't in the playoff didn't get there because they didn't win their conference, not because some committee deemed them unworthy.
This year is a perfect answer why the playoff shouldn't go to 8 teams
- Thread starter WhiteBus
- Start date
No BS "byes'... no 5 or 6 team playoffs where the favorites get byes. That's BS. There simply aren't enough cross-conference games to truly establish that some teams are so much better they deserve a bye. Prove it on the field.
To further your logic, why not just declare Alabama the National Champion. They seem to be heads and tails above everyone else with not much difference between 2 thru 8. That said, I prefer an 8 team playoff.
I think there should be 5 automatic bids with 3 at large bids. I think that only the 5 conference winners really deserve it and that 1 slot should automatically go to ONE non-power conference school.
It's less BS than 3 teams being awarded a playoff spot by a committee just to create an eight team playoff. The primary goal should be to eliminate the committee's responsibility for choosing whose seasons are over and who goes to the playoffs. I agree that a five-team playoff isn't ideal, but just taking the conference champs is the only way to take the opinions/politics out of it. It would be nice if some sort of realignment happened that results in four or eight conferences. Then you can take the conference champions and have no byes.
No.. 8 teams still does it.
The 5 champs still get their shots. They already have their division and conference championships. Now some of may have to prove they are better than some non-champ from another conference or a second-5 champ.
They still have their opportunity wit an 8 team playoff. Every conference champ of the P5 would. That's the way it should be... and still we get to see just how good the non-P5 champ or two might be.. and maybe some great team in a great conference that stumbled late. We'll see if they are better than some conference champ from across the country.
Any given Saturday still applies... as it does now and has always done. Same for the NCAA BBALL tourney.. it is really just determining a playoff champion.
Not the way it works in that scenario. With the proposed 8 team scenario, 5 spots would go to conference champs. Therefore, the loser of Ohio St/Michigan would only be eligible for one of the 3 at large bids. Just going by the current rankings, the Ohio St/Michigan loser would be competing with the Penn St/Wisconsin loser, Washington/Colorado(or USC) loser, Oklahoma/Oklahoma St loser, Louisville, Florida, Southern Cal, and Nebraska. Maybe West Virginia and someone like Auburn in a stretch. Plus Clemson if they lost the CCG.
Which also brings up another point. Teams that aren't in the running under the current format would be in the running under the proposed format. So let's take your theory that Ohio St Michigan doesn't matter. Well, a game like USC/Notre Dame, which doesn't matter now, would matter under the 8 team format. Same thing for Louisville/Kentucky, Colorado/Utah, etc. Other games that don't matter now would matter then, even if Ohio St/Michigan didn't.
Yeah the problem is that by giving three teams a second chance, suppose one of the non-conference champions makes it to the national championship game but a team that was ranked #9 by the committee had a good argument for being ranked higher. Who's to say #9 wouldn't have won those playoff games and thus have been equally deserving of a chance to play in them? That puts us right back where we are now, where a committee determines whose season ends and whose season continues to a national playoff.
If a team comes in #9, it should have played harder and better and not left the decision up to the committee. You can't keep the logic going all the way down the line. Under an 8-team playoff, every team has a chance to play its schedule, win its conference and go to the playoffs. If you can't do that, then your fate is left up to the committee and you shouldn't complain if you're voted 9, instead of 8. You should have won out, then, tough luck.
As it is now, if you win your conference, you can still get voted #5 instead of 4. In fact, that will happen to one team every year. That's the problem with the whole committee approach, imo, and what needs to change. Committee for the three wild cards is just fine.
The discussion wasn't limited to this season. The discussion was about having 8 teams in general, not just for one year.
Also to say they "passed" on a game this year isn't really accurate. It's not that simple, especially considering they still don't have a TV contract for the title game yet.
The NCAA Basketball Tournament used to have 8 teams long time ago. They just kept expanding it.
There have only been two 4-team college football playoffs thus far. In 2014, TCU deserved a chance to play for the National Championship, but, they didn't get invited. In 2015, Ohio State deserved a chance to play for the National Championship, but, they didn't get invited to defend their national title either.
TCU finished their 2014 season ranked #6 by the college football playoff system. They finished their 2014 season 12-1,
losing only at Baylor by 3 points and Baylor finished their 2014 season ranked #5 by the college football playoff system.
TCU finished 2014 ranked #3 in the AP and Coaches Final Polls after beating Ole Miss 42-3 in their bowl game for a final record of 12-1. TCU certainly deserved a shot at the title on the field.
Ohio State finished their 2015 season ranked #7 by the college football playoff system. They finished their 2015 season 12-1,
losing only to Michigan State by 3 points and Michigan State finished their 2015 season ranked #3 by the college football playoff system.
Ohio State finished 2015 ranked #4 in the AP and Coaches Final Polls after beating Notre Dame 44-28 in their bowl game for a final record of 12-1. Ohio State certainly deserved a shot to defend their national title on the field.
An 8-team college football playoff system would have given TCU in 2014 and Ohio State in 2015 the chances that they deserved to play for the National Championship.
What football program(s) will be deprived of the chance that they deserve to play for the national championship this year ?
Let's settle the National Championship on the field !
An 8-team playoff system is inevitable. It is just a matter of when.
Last edited:
The problem with TCU in 2014 is that they had the same record as Baylor, who beat them head to head. The problem with Ohio State is that they had the same record as MSU, who beat them head to head. In both cases, it was settled on the field. If anyone had an argument in 2014, it would have been Baylor. When there is a head to head result, everything else gets thrown out. There was no objective justification for putting either TCU or Ohio State in the playoff in either year. Neither team deserved to be there.
When selecting the 2014 Final Four, the committee reviewed the entire resume of every FBS team, which includes every game each of them played not just one key game for each.
Then, the committee selected
Alabama which lost to an Ole Miss team, that ended up ranked #9 by the committee, by 6 points
(TCU beat that same Ole Miss team by 39 points in their bowl game),
Ohio State which lost to a Virginia Tech team, that ended up unranked by the committee, by 14 points at home,
and Oregon which lost to an Arizona team, that ended up ranked #10 by the committee, by 7 points at home
over TCU which only lost to a Baylor team, that ended up ranked #5 by the committee, by 3 points on the road.
When selecting the 2015 Final Four, the committee reviewed the entire resume of every FBS team, which includes every game each of them played not just one key game for each.
Then, the committee selected
Oklahoma which lost to a Texas team, that ended up unranked by the committee, by 7 points,
Alabama which lost to an Ole Miss team, that ended up ranked #12 by the committee, by 6 points at home,
and Michigan State which lost to a Nebraska team, that ended up unranked by the committee, by 1 point
over Ohio State which only lost to a Michigan State team, that ended up ranked #3 by the committee, by 3 points.
In 2014, TCU may have been the best team in the country, but, they weren’t given a chance to play for the national championship on the field. A committee eliminated them from contention.
If we had an 8-team playoff system in 2014, Baylor would have had a chance to play for the national championship that year too. A committee eliminated them from contention.
In 2015 Ohio State may have been the best team in the country, but, they weren’t given a chance to defend their national title on the field due to one late regular season loss. A committee eliminated them from contention.
Last edited:
I don't like an 8 team playoff and I'll tell you why. There will be absolutely no incentive to finish 1st anymore. The gap between number 1 and 8 is tremendous, the #1 team bring undefeated and the #8 with two losses. Make it fair and create a system where you reward the 1 & 2 with a by week. Allow #3 to play #6 and #4 to play #5. The winners will establish who plays #1 and #2. This system would be fair because it rewards the #1 and #2 team while including the #5 and #6 two teams that may have been left out unfairly. Will it be a big advantage for the #1 and #2 to get a bi week, absolutely. But that is the reward for going undefeated or losing in the 1st or 2nd game of the year.
There is a significant advantage to being ranked 1st or 2nd at the end of the year, because, there can be a significant gap between being 1st or 8th and even 2nd or 7th in many seasons.
8-team playoff 1st round:
Team #1 hosts Team #8 on their home field
Team #2 hosts Team #7 on their home field
Team #3 hosts Team #6 on their home field
Team #4 hosts Team #5 on their home field
In 2015, Ohio State was ranked 7th by the committee and they may have had the best team in the country that year.
Ohio State at least deserved a chance to play Team #2 on that teams home field to defend their national title. Ohio State played a very strong schedule in 2015 and only lost one close game to a very strong team.
Actually, the BIG 12 has decided to play a CCG after a special approval by the NCAA to have a CCG when you do not have 2 divisions and less than 12 teams.
Starts next year.
Teams that lose head-to-head to teams in their conference and finish with the same record as the teams they lost to aren't deserving of a spot in the playoff. Ohio State needed to beat MSU. TCU needed to beat Baylor. They didn't. So they were out. Deservedly.
The shortsightedness that is involved with magnifying the importance of one single game in relation to the analysis that is needed of an already limited 12-game regular season review is one reason why an 8-team playoff that is designed to decide the national championship on the field is imperative.
In my opinion, Baylor deserved a chance to play for the national championship in 2014, but, a committee eliminated them from contention. Since you didn’t mention Baylor in your post, let’s focus on TCU in 2014 and Ohio State in 2015.
Did you know that in 2014 TCU ended up ranked higher than Baylor in every final college football poll ?
Did you know that in 2014 TCU played against the same 9 Big 12 conference opponents as Baylor did, scored more points than Baylor in conference 428 to 408 and gave up significantly fewer points than Baylor in conference 223 to 263 ?
TCU had a much better defense than Baylor in 2014.
You may feel that Baylor was more deserving of a national championship playoff shot than TCU in 2014, because, they beat TCU at Baylor by 3 points in one game, but, which team would have won that game if that game was played at TCU ?
How can you determine that Baylor was more deserving of a chance at the national championship than TCU in 2014 ?
Did you know that in 2015 Ohio State ended up ranked higher than Michigan State in every final college football poll ?
Did you know that in 2015 Ohio State scored more points than Michigan State in conference 282 to 268 and gave up significantly fewer points than Michigan State in conference 119 to 170 ?
Ohio State had a much better defense than Michigan State in 2015.
How can you determine that Michigan State was more deserving of a chance at the national championship than Ohio State in 2015 ?
How can a committee deny Ohio State a chance to defend their national title, because, of one close late season loss ?
Let’s allow these types of great teams to play it out on the field in an 8-team playoff so that we can begin to have true national champions in FBS College Football for a change !
Last edited:
Only if other teams are more deserving. You can't make an absolute rule out of that. In any given year, it's entirely possible for the B1G or SEC to have two teams in that situation, and have no other team close to them in record or ability.
Did you know that in 2015, MSU and Ohio State played a game, and MSU won? And Ohio State's superior offense scored all of 14 points? At home? That's why MSU were more deserving. Did you know in 2014,when Baylor and TCU played a game, Baylor won? And that TCU's superior defense gave up 61 points? I can determine that Michigan State was a better team than Ohio State in 2015 because they went to Columbus and beat them. Baylor was a better team than TCU because they beat them. It's not an SAT problem. In both cases, it was settled on the field.
The committee denied Ohio State a chance to defend their title because they lost at home to a conference opponent. They didn't even win their division. To be deserving of a playoff spot, they needed to beat MSU. They didn't. TCU should never have been ranked ahead of Baylor in the first place. All of these metrics that you're citing would matter if these teams didn't actually play each other. They did, and there were results.
Last edited:
I still think it's total BS for a committee to choose one team over another for a national playoff. If it's a tough call for a committee to decide who is 8th and who is 9th, well yeah if the #9 team would have won another game or two they wouldn't have had to worry about the committee, but the team ranked 8th didn't win their conference either and yet they move on to play for a national title simply because a committee deemed them more worthy. Do you think a team that feels as though they were snubbed is going to just accept that if they would have won another game it wouldn't have mattered? Of course not, they're going to be just as pissed as teams who feel unfairly left out under the current format. Opening it up to more teams gives more teams a chance, but it still doesn't eliminate the dog and pony show that is a committee determining who gets to play for a national championship.
Why did you ask me if I know about TCU at Baylor in 2014 and Michigan State at Ohio State in 2015 after I have already clearly described the results of those games in this thread ?
Why do you keep repeating yourself about those individual head to head games as if that is all that matters ?
It won’t change the fact that TCU was better than Baylor in 2014 and Ohio State was better than Michigan State in 2015 or that the sum of the results of 12 regular season games is greater than the result of any one of those 12 games.
Did you know that Alabama was declared a unanimous national champion in 2011 even though they didn’t win their division ?
At least you admitted that it was a committee that denied Ohio State a chance to defend their national title in 2015. I don’t think Alabama would have beaten Ohio State on the field.
But, we'll never know now will we ?
Let's establish an 8-team playoff ASAP.
There is no doubt that there will always be teams that will feel like they were snubbed unfairly in any FBS playoff system, regardless of how many teams are involved. But, in the two years that the 4-team playoff system has been in place there hasn't been any team ranked lower than 8th by a committee that has established a resume that was deserving of national championship consideration.
If you can think of one please make a case for that team.
Thanks !
Except for the fact that Baylor and Michigan St actually won. Other than that inconvenient little piece of information.
Did you also know that 2011 is the exact reason the BCS was eliminated and the CFP was formed?
The fact that Baylor beat TCU means that TCU wasn't better.
The fact that MSU beat Ohio State means that Ohio State wasn't better.
Alabama getting into the Championship game in 2011 without winning their conference was a joke and represented everything that was wrong with the BCS. Just like putting Ohio State in the playoff in 2015 would have been a joke. Ohio State had a chance to earn their playoff berth on the field. They didn't.
No exceptions. No omissions of facts. Results of ALL 12 regular season games are reviewed. All pieces of information are included not just one game. Baylor lost to West Virginia by 14 points in 2014 for instance, but, TCU beat West Virginia in 2014. No one can prove that TCU wasn't the best team in the country in 2014, because, a committee eliminated them from national championship contention.
The BCS was basically a 2-team playoff system that included committees and other metrics. The existing 4-team playoff system is an improvement over that, but, it still uses a committee and doesn't include enough playoff teams to ensure that the committee's margin of error is great enough to be competent.
Couple of thoughts:
The emphasis the committee places on P5 conference winners will discourage teams from playing top OOC opponents. Is Alabama getting knocked down for their OOC of USC, Kent State, Chattanooga and Western Kentucky? I don't care if USC has 8 wins, they sucked hard early.
One P5 champ will get left out every year. Until further notice, it will be the B12.
This whole thing will start to fall apart when two teams from one conference get in, as is entirely possible this year. If the committee puts in a clearly inferior conference champion, say goodbye to good OOC games. If not, you've got two conference champs left out that will want change and you can bet the SEC will be on their side if 2 of 4 are B10 teams
The emphasis the committee places on P5 conference winners will discourage teams from playing top OOC opponents. Is Alabama getting knocked down for their OOC of USC, Kent State, Chattanooga and Western Kentucky? I don't care if USC has 8 wins, they sucked hard early.
One P5 champ will get left out every year. Until further notice, it will be the B12.
This whole thing will start to fall apart when two teams from one conference get in, as is entirely possible this year. If the committee puts in a clearly inferior conference champion, say goodbye to good OOC games. If not, you've got two conference champs left out that will want change and you can bet the SEC will be on their side if 2 of 4 are B10 teams
The fact that TCU finished ahead of Baylor in every final college football poll in 2014 that included all games shows that TCU was better than Baylor in 2014 despite the results of their one head to head game.
The fact that Ohio State finished ahead of Michigan State in every final college football poll in 2015 that included all games shows that Ohio State was better than Michigan State in 2015 despite the results of their one head to head game.
Why is this so hard for you to understand ? It isn't rocket science. Many baseball, basketball and football teams have lost to teams that they are better than. A college football regular season is 12 games long.
ALL 12 regular season games are reviewed, INCLUDING head to head matchups. You keep harping on the fact that Baylor lost to West Virginia, but Baylor BEAT TCU. If you have two teams with identical records, and you choose the loser of the head to head match up, then it's a complete farce. It's just complete cherrypicking. The fact is Baylor and TCU had identical records, and Baylor beat TCU head to head. End of story.
Now, as to TCU being the best team, or being eliminated from contention, then who do you take out? Show me what justifies TCU getting ahead of Alabama, Oregon, Florida St or Ohio St. TCU was not ahead of those four schools in any category.
No, the BCS didn't use a committee. It used the AP/Harris poll, the Coaches' Poll, and computer rankings. There was no committee selection. The teams were all put through a mathematical formula, and the teams with the two best scores made it.
I don't have a problem with expanding the playoffs. The problem is you are using terrible examples to try to prove your point.
No it doesn't.
The AP/Harris Polls and Coaches Poll get votes from their individual committee members. You must be a member of their individual committees to vote.
If you want to disregard the fact that every final college football poll that includes all games ranked TCU higher than Baylor in 2014 that is your prerogative.
If you want to disregard that every final college football poll that includes all games ranked Ohio State higher than Michigan State in 2015 that is also your prerogative.
However, it is very easy for anyone who understands college football to look at the performance of each of those teams and conclude that TCU was better than Baylor in 2014 and Ohio State was better than Michigan State in 2015. I provided some information that backs those facts up earlier in this thread.
TCU had a much better defense than Baylor in 2014 and it wasn't even close and Ohio State had a much better defense than Michigan State in 2015 and that wasn't even close.
At least we both agree that an 8-team playoff system is needed ASAP.
Regarding which team to take out instead of TCU in 2014, I wouldn't have eliminated any of those teams. In fact, I would have also included Baylor as 1 of 8 teams in an 8-team playoff in 2014.
Last edited:
That's all fine and good when the teams have identical records and there aren't head-to-head results. In both cases, there were and TCU and Ohio State lost. That makes everything else moot. Your reasoning is why the BCS was such a joke. Ranking the LOSER of a head-to-head matchup of two teams with the same record higher is a farce.
Before the BCS was worse than the BCS. The BCS was worse than the CFP. This system is MUCH better than the BCS in my opinion. Additionally, as a PSU fan, if Ohio State beats Michigan there is no way on God's green earth that the Buckeyes are not in the playoff, no matter what happens with every other team. How could the #2 team beat the #3 team and drop to #5 no matter what PSU or any other team does? The argument as I see it would be do we make the playoff if we win out?
These are all intriguing questions which is why College football is so awesome.
These are all intriguing questions which is why College football is so awesome.
Similar threads
