Tough Love: UNC Transfer Denied By Michigan....

[MrsScrew]

It's a good recruitment tool. Kids may not care about getting an education, but their parents often do, and parents influence where a kid ends up. It's also the right thing to do -- almost no one is going to go on to a pro career, and so players need to be as prepared for the post-Rutgers world as everyone else.

I realize this is the MBB board but I'll say Ash had a whole program called "life beyond the game" that he brought with him from tOSU. Every month(?) he brought in a successful RU alumni, most former football players, to talk to the team about options after football & how to be successful.

 

[retired711]

I realize this is the MBB board but I'll say Ash had a whole program called "life beyond the game" that he brought with him from tOSU. Every month(?) he brought in a successful RU alumni, most former football players, to talk to the team about options after football & how to be successful.

I'm glad there was something good about Ash.

 

[Plum Street]

I realize this is the MBB board but I'll say Ash had a whole program called "life beyond the game" that he brought with him from tOSU. Every month(?) he brought in a successful RU alumni, most former football players, to talk to the team about options after football & how to be successful.

That is the sort of thing that should be happening and what college athletics should be all about . Instead, it’s semipro sports . It’s a sad situation when we have to praise or mention a coach doing what he should be doing in the first place (schiano tracking classes and ash career day etc ).
The disappointing reality is the only thing these coaches are judged on is what happens on the field/court. Both ash and schiano have 7 figure bank accounts and it’s not because their players were good at psychology 101 .

 

[retired711]

That is the sort of thing that should be happening and what college athletics should be all about . Instead, it’s semipro sports . It’s a sad situation when we have to praise or mention a coach doing what he should be doing in the first place (schiano tracking classes and ash career day etc ).
The disappointing reality is the only thing these coaches are judged on is what happens on the field/court. Both ash and schiano have 7 figure bank accounts and it’s not because their players were good at psychology 101 .

You are a little too cynical. Schiano's concern about his players' academic progress is certainly a plus factor for him in the administration's evaluation of his performance, and the poor performance by other coaches in this area is a minus factor for them. The factor can make a difference for a coach who is borderline otherwise. I've certainly seen this at other schools, and the same can happen here.

 

[Plum Street]

You are a little too cynical. Schiano's concern about his players' academic progress is certainly a plus factor for him in the administration's evaluation of his performance, and the poor performance by other coaches in this area is a minus factor for them. The factor can make a difference for a coach who is borderline otherwise. I've certainly seen this at other schools, and the same can happen here.

It doesn’t make a difference . You think if Ryan Day keeps losing to Michigan, but his team has a high GPA he will keep his job ?
This is semipro sports.
The UNC fake classes no one even cares about except some rutgers fans here.

 

[Fat Koko]

Absolutely. Hoops and baseball shared facilities (RAC, weight room, locker rooms etc when I was there, so there was some crossover between the programs).

I also sublet an apt to 3 offensive linemen starters going into their Sr yr. Two were expected to be NFL draft choices. Two were ineligible to start the year (I don’t remember which).

I’ll just say Gruninger, Wenzel & Graber didn’t run a tight ship.

But you didn’t have to have any inside info to know that. You just had to see NBA talents like Waliyy Dixon & Charles Jones leave after 1 yr. and countless others fail out year after year to know something was systemically wrong.

It required the political savvy of Mulcahy and the dogged determination (naïveté ?) of Schiano to get the resources in place to change the culture.

I know a lot of people from other sports weren’t happy, but it’s hard to argue that the vision didn’t pay off and ultimately benefit the entire athletic department by getting us to a stage large enough to showcase the State University of NJ and all it has to offer.

Disappointing to see Waliyy and Charles depart Rutgers then achieve basketball success soon later. Charles was 2x NCAA scoring champ and NBA player. Question is did Waliyy and Charles belong in Rutgers, or another university’s, classrooms.

 

[Plum Street]

Disappointing to see Waliyy and Charles depart Rutgers then achieve basketball success soon later. Charles was 2x NCAA scoring champ and NBA player. Question is did Waliyy and Charles belong in Rutgers, or another university’s, classrooms.

Lol cmon you know the answer to that !

 

[Fat Koko]

Lol cmon you know the answer to that !

Lived on Hamilton walked around 8am past the Plum Street Pub to Somerset to get a haircut, guy running shop, Mr Teen NJ back in day, said Main Event gonna be here. Word got out qwik all the local kids were there. Waliyy didn’t show & owner still made some biz from kids.

Walking home Plum Street Pub was still raging.

 

[Plum Street]

Lived on Hamilton walked around 8am past the Plum Street Pub to Somerset to get a haircut, guy running shop, Mr Teen NJ back in day, said Main Event gonna be here. Word got out qwik all the local kids were there. Waliyy didn’t show & owner still made some biz from kids.

Walking home Plum Street Pub was still raging.

Sounds like Chicago. Did you drown your sorrows at plum street pub?
Long live old school Plum Street , of the best New Brunswick blocks of all time (and message board posters)!

 

[retired711]

It doesn’t make a difference . You think if Ryan Day keeps losing to Michigan, but his team has a high GPA he will keep his job ?
This is semipro sports.
The UNC fake classes no one even cares about except some rutgers fans here.

Of course not. But you are exaggerating what I said. All I said was that, in a borderline situation, the players' academic success can (and does) make a difference to whether a coach is retained.

 

[Big East Beast]

Disappointing to see Waliyy and Charles depart Rutgers then achieve basketball success soon later. Charles was 2x NCAA scoring champ and NBA player. Question is did Waliyy and Charles belong in Rutgers, or another university’s, classrooms.

I know a prof at LIU who was on the athletic advisory committee and said they had to have a major police presence at games because there were a lot of gangs that came out to watch in those years.

LIU had also been the landing spot for Richie Parker, who was going to SHU until he was convicted of sexual assault of a 16 year old.

To say they had different admission criteria would be an understatement.

The prof said there were a lot of guns and gambling and drugs and extra curricular stuff going on that always resulted in fights and the whole scene was pretty wild.

I told him I never noticed any of that while Charles was at RU - maybe it was just far enough away or wasn’t his crowd at all; Charles said in a NY Times interview that about 15 kids he grew up with in BedSuy died in the streets.

College is an adjustment for everyone and when you are essentially a campus celebrity and your “job” is to play a sport, I think it’s easy to lose sight of the bigger picture of why you are there.

I know athletes at large state schools and Ivies who had “tutors” or girlfriends basically do their assignments for them. I’m sure this was going on at RU as well, and still does, but you can tell when these coaches talk they share a conviction that they are here to do more than just coach a sport. That’s a culture.

 

[Plum Street]

Of course not. But you are exaggerating what I said. All I said was that, in a borderline situation, the players' academic success can (and does) make a difference to whether a coach is retained.

Ok , give me an example . It’s only fair you back up that statement.

 

[retired711]

Ok , give me an example . It’s only fair you back up that statement.

I'll use Cal as an example because I know about it and because it's the kind of school Rutgers aspires to be. You know, I'm sure, that the Cal men's basketball team has been terrible for some time. One of the things that kept Mark Fox in the coaching job was that the players were getting through school. (It took until this year for him to be fired.) Conversely, one of the things that caused Cal to finally let Jeff Tedford go as football coach (and Tedford was the most successful Cal football coach in ages) was that he and his staff were recruiting players who were not making it academically. In neither case was academic record the sole factor, but I never suggested it would be -- rather it was one factor that made a difference.

The players' academic record makes a difference in a more subtle way. Although the Killingworths and Dowlings of the world will always hate Rutgers' athletic programs, the fact that Schiano gets many of his players through school has always defused the level of faculty animosity. Being able to point to someone like Noah Vedral, now studying for a master's degree, is a big help.

 

[LETSGORU91]

It’s laughable that some people think college sports was ever amateurism. That’s why I don’t get the very vocal anti NIL group here

What dont you get? Some fans dont think they should be ponying up money to rent college athletes who by definition are amateurs. Just because the NCAA lacked oversight and couldn't enforce diddly squat pre NIL, universities with money bags were allowed to rule. We all know that. And post NIL is a completely different ball game now.. It's quite a simple concept.

 

[Plum Street]

What dont you get? Some fans dont think they should be ponying up money to rent college athletes who by definition are amateurs. Just because the NCAA lacked oversight and couldn't enforce diddly squat pre NIL, universities with money bags were allowed to rule. We all know that. And post NIL is a completely different ball game now.. It's quite a simple concept.

It’s different . But not that different. If anything more parity . Just look at the final four .
And if fans really have a problem with it, we can go find other entertainment options

 

[Plum Street]

I'll use Cal as an example because I know about it and because it's the kind of school Rutgers aspires to be. You know, I'm sure, that the Cal men's basketball team has been terrible for some time. One of the things that kept Mark Fox in the coaching job was that the players were getting through school. (It took until this year for him to be fired.) Conversely, one of the things that caused Cal to finally let Jeff Tedford go as football coach (and Tedford was the most successful Cal football coach in ages) was that he and his staff were recruiting players who were not making it academically. In neither case was academic record the sole factor, but I never suggested it would be -- rather it was one factor that made a difference.

The players' academic record makes a difference in a more subtle way. Although the Killingworths and Dowlings of the world will always hate Rutgers' athletic programs, the fact that Schiano gets many of his players through school has always defused the level of faculty animosity. Being able to point to someone like Noah Vedral, now studying for a master's degree, is a big help.

Mark fox had a lot of success at Nevada. He had some success at Georgia. It’s interesting that you have to go all the way across the country to one of the best academic schools in the country for a weak example . I don’t think anyone would point to cal’s athletic department as something we strive to be (even Rutgers al wouldn’t want to be cal).

Rutgers has been at athletics and academics a long time. Can you please enlighten us with a rutgers example ?

 

[retired711]

Mark fox had a lot of success at Nevada. He had some success at Georgia. It’s interesting that you have to go all the way across the country to one of the best academic schools in the country for a weak example . I don’t think anyone would point to cal’s athletic department as something we strive to be (even Rutgers al wouldn’t want to be cal).

Rutgers has been at athletics and academics a long time. Can you please enlighten us with a rutgers example ?

You asked for an example -- I gave you one. I explained why I was using Cal -- because I know about it. I'm not implying that it's the only place that happens. And I even related it to Rutgers because I know from personal experience that the graduation rate makes a difference to faculty perceptions here. Dowling was a lot less effective because of it -- it took a potentially big argument away from him. I dont know what else you want. As lawyers say, further affiant saith not.

 

[Plum Street]

You asked for an example -- I gave you one. I explained why I was using Cal -- because I know about it. I'm not implying that it's the only place that happens. And I even related it to Rutgers because I know from personal experience that the graduation rate makes a difference to faculty perceptions here. Dowling was a lot less effective because of it -- it took a potentially big argument away from him. I dont know what else you want. As lawyers say, further affiant saith not.

Ok now I ask for a rutgers example, since this is a rutgers board . Since you proclaim to know from personal experience that this matters at rutgers too.
Please I hope this matters at rutgers and you can back up your claims

 

[retired711]

Ok now I ask for a rutgers example, since this is a rutgers board . Since you proclaim to know from personal experience that this matters at rutgers too.
Please I hope this matters at rutgers and you can back up your claims

I already gave you one -- read my post again. 'Bye!

 

[Plum Street]

I already gave you one -- read my post again. 'Bye!

You didn’t give an example of a rutgers coach keeping his/her job because they had players with good grades. Can you back up your claim or not ?

 

[retired711]

I gave you an example from another institution. Posters here all the time talk about things going on at other institutions as relevant to Rutgers. You're a sore loser, plain and simple.

 

[Plum Street]

I gave you an example from another institution. Posters here all the time talk about things going on at other institutions as relevant to Rutgers. You're a sore loser, plain and simple.

now give a rutgers example . That’s not asking too much.
Plum wins!!

 

[RUsojo]

Absolutely. Hoops and baseball shared facilities (RAC, weight room, locker rooms etc when I was there, so there was some crossover between the programs).

I also sublet an apt to 3 offensive linemen starters going into their Sr yr. Two were expected to be NFL draft choices. Two were ineligible to start the year (I don’t remember which).

I’ll just say Gruninger, Wenzel & Graber didn’t run a tight ship.

But you didn’t have to have any inside info to know that. You just had to see NBA talents like Waliyy Dixon & Charles Jones leave after 1 yr. and countless others fail out year after year to know something was systemically wrong.

It required the political savvy of Mulcahy and the dogged determination (naïveté ?) of Schiano to get the resources in place to change the culture.

I know a lot of people from other sports weren’t happy, but it’s hard to argue that the vision didn’t pay off and ultimately benefit the entire athletic department by getting us to a stage large enough to showcase the State University of NJ and all it has to offer.

Great info thanks for sharing. Do you recall how much below market value you rented your apartment for to the football players?

This has been a space I believe Rutgers has been behind in compared to conference mates.

 

[NickRU714]

What dont you get? Some fans dont think they should be ponying up money to rent college athletes who by definition are amateurs. Just because the NCAA lacked oversight and couldn't enforce diddly squat pre NIL, universities with money bags were allowed to rule. We all know that. And post NIL is a completely different ball game now.. It's quite a simple concept.

By definition, they were never amateurs.

They receive a free education in exchange for playing.
By definition, they are professionals.

Athletic Scholarships, by definition, make them not amateurs.

 

[Fat Koko]

Sounds like Chicago. Did you drown your sorrows at plum street pub?
Long live old school Plum Street , of the best New Brunswick blocks of all time (and message board posters)!

Yup the Chicago barber shop. Occasional hit Plum Street pub because lived across the street. $2 pitchers. Plum was a strange block of students and immigrants.

 

[Big East Beast]

Great info thanks for sharing. Do you recall how much below market value you rented your apartment for to the football players?

This has been a space I believe Rutgers has been behind in compared to conference mates.

Lol. I think I gave it to them at cost because I just was trying to offset our 3 month’s of summer rent cost.

Ultimately, I had to take them to small claims court because they tried to skip on the third month when they realized they would be on campus with the football team.

I literally stalked them and confronted them via phone, at the Hale Center & dorms on cook - but what ultimately worked was when I talked to the primary guy’s grandmother.

 

[RUsojo]

Lol. I think I gave it to them at cost because I just was trying to offset our 3 month’s of summer rent cost.

Ultimately, I had to take them to small claims court because they tried to skip on the third month when they realized they would be on campus with the football team.

I literally stalked them and confronted them via phone, at the Hale Center & dorms on cook - but what ultimately worked was when I talked to the primary guy’s grandmother.

Haha wild. I misread didn’t see sublet.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Yes, same system at RU in 90s. I didn’t need it but other guys on baseball team benefitted, including PWOs.

1st year was weed out.

I remember one kid saying he was concerned about staying eligible. I asked him what his GPA was and he said .6, which I didn’t even know was possible.

Needless to say, I didn’t see him soph yr. Not much “academic support” in those days- even for basketball and football. Bob Mulcahy made a huge difference in culture and investment in this area, which is under appreciated.

Zero academic support in 1995 for football. Academic support was just a filing cabinet with all of the past tests for every no-show class (like Bugs and Dudes).

 

[LETSGORU91]

By definition, they were never amateurs.

They receive a free education in exchange for playing.
By definition, they are professionals.

Athletic Scholarships, by definition, make them not amateurs.

So the NCAA renounced their amateur status based on your definition!?!?

 

[Nycrusupporter]

I question whether some of the one and dones have ever set foot in a college classroom. I do know some of them left school the second the season ended to start training for the NBA.