We need an opinion from Rivals own Russ Woods on recruiting

[essexknight]

This is like the Rorschach test. People will see what they want to see.

The program is in a difficult position right now. I hope EJ fights his way out of it and turns things around.

 

[wngarbarini]

How about Villanova with no practice facilities and a gym worse than our. Wright seems to be doing OK, right?

I posted that Coach Goodale of our # 8 ranked wrestling team has built a program over the past 9 years with the lousiest practice facilities in the nation. We are in the bottom of the barn and for years had all of our meets at the Barn. He did it with passion, fire and a vision to keep the NJ kids home and it worked. Unfortunately, I do not see any of those qualities in our current coach. We have the # 3 ranked wrestling recruiting class coming next year. Come to the next wrestling meet at the RAC on January 8 at 7 pm and see a real team destroy MSU with aggressiveness and passion. You will enjoy it and be entertained, something you probably are not now at the basketball games. I have been a season ticket holder to BB for years so I speak with first hand knowledge.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

How about Villanova with no practice facilities and a gym worse than our. Wright seems to be doing OK, right?
.

Let's try to stick to the facts when making statements like this....

Davis Center for Athletics and Fitness....The first two floors house office space for the men's and women's basketball programs, a practice court for each team, locker rooms, state of the art weight room, cinema and sports medicine area

 

[Caliknight]

These are two mutually exclusive discussions. Does RU want upgrades. Yes. Would they help get better players. Maybe.

Is Eddie a good college coach? No. Would better facilities make him a better coach? No.

 

[RutgHoops]

What you never know when you did the "WHAT OFFERS A KIDS HAD" game is what were they told with the offer.

DJ Foreman could have been offered by Minnesota and told he would have a shot at the rotation, but would most likely be redshirted.....or we have 2 Upper Classmen ahead of you, but starters minutes could be available in 3 years. All of those kids you mentioned had a straight line at PT at RU. Very probable not the same at the other schools. Every program needs stars, starters, role players, projects, and practice players. For Sanders the offer was Rutgers as a star at tennessee the backup to the senior PG.

With the paper pieces that Jordan has it is only fair to judge him after next season. Sanders Johnson Williams Freeman ?????? on paper has the look of a team that is near or close to the GWs, SHU, Creightons, WF that we have lost to. Freeman is an enormous loss to this team and it is understated by almost all.

Personally until there is a change in culture Jordan can't get this done. That is opinion and a guy isn't/shouldn't be let go in Year 3 because of it.

I 100% agree with everything you wrote. And in fact I believe most of the kids playing for us likely would have had to sit a year or two before seeing meaningful minutes at the schools listed as "Offers". At Rutgers with one non-Eddie recruited Junior or Senior they have to play today. Ready or not.

Freeman is a huge loss. He and Corey were/are our best players. Cant just yank that kid off the squad and think we seamlessly move forward.

I feel like I have become an Eddie defender while I feel personally more in the "jury is out" camp. If this were a legal preceding I feel like all we've heard are opening arguments. While I may have an opinion as to "guilt or innocence" I feel an obligation to hear the evidence before making a final determination.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

These are two mutually exclusive discussions. Does RU want upgrades. Yes. Would they help get better players. Maybe.

Is Eddie a good college coach? No. Would better facilities make him a better coach? No.

I rarely comment on all the good vs. Bad coach talk. I focus on what's needed to get better players recruited.,.....because I know that 95 out of 100 games, the team with the better players win. There are some that think it is coaching only. I disagree and no one is going to convince me otherwise because, THE TEAM WITH THE BETTER PLAYERS WIN.

So, the issue comes back to what are the current impediments to getting better players.......that's all this discussion should be about.

ruman, cali, no brain, bac and others will say it's about the "lazy" HC and Staff....nothing else !!

Me....I think it's a combination of many factors and I think the opinion of our expert supports that view.

 

[wonchobody]

It's not that simple. And that's the argument. There is some level of coaching aptitude required to get the most out of even the highest rated players. And yes low level recruits can and have been coached to become better. There is no arguing against this. There's a team every year that seems to overachieve. Why can't we be one of them? And since we're not getting the fancy new toys anytime soon, why do we have to give up until daddy wants to buy them for us? Isn't there a situation where some program makes the most of or do more with what they have? Again why can't this be us? Sure there are counterexamples to this, but the overachieving team isn't like some unicorn hiding in a pot of gold under the rainbow. These teams actually exist in reality.

And if EJ is our program caretaker until bigger and better things come to fruition, much like Terry Collins was with the Mets, then is he deserving to stay on when they do? Maybe, if only for being a loyal guy. But EJ has now talked about not being able to teach "heart" and "effort" on more than one occasion this year. How is that supposed to make fans feel, especially since these are supposedly "his" players that he's coaching. I'm not sure if he can coach these kids, even if the good ones end up walking through the door a year, two years or three years down the line. I think the skepticism is warranted. The exasperation is starting to show alot in his comments. Can you blame him? He seems totally out of his element. And I was all for him coming here since he was a huge reason why the Nets (my favorite team) made the NBA finals in consecutive years. He doesn't seem to have a plan. And it just doesn't seem to be working.

What worries me is that say the school finally does get the facilities and increased budgets for EJ and CVS. What happens when either or both of them faulter with top recruiting classes, comparable budgets, and comparable facilities? Will the school continue to invest? Or will they look at it and say, "Well this didn't work either. Let's cut the budget again." And if they don't start winning will it be safe to say that coaching is a factor? I think it's safe to say that we should be a little concerned with the state of affairs presently with EJ. I don't want to write him off yet. But there are alarming signs right now.

 

[RUonBrain]

I rarely comment on all the good vs. Bad coach talk. I focus on what's needed to get better players recruited.,.....because I know that 95 out of 100 games, the team with the better players win. There are some that think it is coaching only. I disagree and no one is going to convince me otherwise because, THE TEAM WITH THE BETTER PLAYERS WIN.

So, the issue comes back to what are the current impediments to getting better players.......that's all this discussion should be about.

ruman, cali, no brain, bac and others will say it's about the "lazy" HC and Staff....nothing else !!

Me....I think it's a combination of many factors and I think the opinion of our expert supports that view.

Listen...

We are NOT saying it is only about the coach.
Stop putting words in our mouths.

As someone astutely posted, we will never get good enough players to win a National Championship with these faciltiies.

But I guarantee you, if we played in Taj Mahal facilities and had Kentucky's roster, we are not winning the National Championship with this coach, either.

BOTH need to be improved.

And you said you "rarely focus on the good vs bad coach talk"

You are only looking at part of the equation.
You completely ignore the coaching aspect.

Do you think our football program will do better with Coach Ash over the next 4 years than we would have if we kept Flood?

Same facilities. Different coaches.

Which of those coaches would you want in charge over the next 4 years, and why?
With your logic, it doesn't matter if Ash or Flood is our coach. It is all about facilities.

 

[RUonBrain]

I rarely comment on all the good vs. Bad coach talk. I focus on what's needed to get better players recruited.,.....because I know that 95 out of 100 games, the team with the better players win. There are some that think it is coaching only. I disagree and no one is going to convince me otherwise because, THE TEAM WITH THE BETTER PLAYERS WIN.

In your words, 95 times out of 100 games, the team with the better players win.

I agree, IF the talent discrepancy is huge, that is true.
Duke will beat Lehigh 95 out of 100.

What about most games when the talent is comparable?

I would venture to say, 95 games out of 100, the better coached team will win if 2 teams have roughly equal talent, ESPECIALLY if 1 team has a great coach, and 1 team has a lousy coach.


Do you think Eddie is ever going to get us elite talent (even with a new practice facitlity) where we overwhelm our opposition?
IMO, not likely.

So in a game with equal talent on both sides, is Eddie likely to get us the win with his coaching?
IMO, no.

It's not that complicated.
Either you think he is a good college coach, or you don't.

 

[RUChoppin]

At some point you have to evaluate what EJ has done with the players on the roster, and how EJ has filled out his roster to replace guys who moved on.

He talks about lack of heart, lack of effort, lack of talent... but these are his guys. He chose them to come to Rutgers to begin to turn this program around. So he either a) didn't choose the right guys, or b) he did choose the right guys but just doesn't know how to get them to perform to their ability.

The injury bug sucks right now. But we didn't look that great before players started getting hurt, either.

And we right now have no one even committed four months out from signing day (only team in the conference without a single commitment right now). There are guys out there that can help this program - Mike Rice recruited to the same facilities just a couple years ago, and even FHJ recruited to these facilities. Hard to believe NBA cred and a championship ring is leading to less success than Rice and Hill on the recruiting trail.

100% agree we need to invest more in the facilities and program - but EJ is a placeholder at best right now.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

In your words, 95 times out of 100 games, the team with the better players win.

I agree, IF the talent discrepancy is huge, that is true.
Duke will beat Lehigh 95 out of 100.

What about most games when the talent is comparable.

I would venture to say, 95 games out of 100, the better coached team will win if 2 teams have roughly equal talent, ESPECIALLY if 1 team has a great coach, and 1 team has a lousy coach.


Do you think Eddie is ever going to get us elite talent (even with a new practice facitlity) where we overwhelm our opposition?
IMO, not likely.

So in a game with equal talent on both sides, is Eddie likely to get us the win with his coaching?
IMO, no.

It's not that complicated.
Either you think he is a good college coach, or you don't.

(Please stop only talking about facilities and engage in a discussion about the coaching at our school, since you said you look at everything and not just one thing like No Brain does.)

I start my drive from Ohio in the early morning...but, I'll give you a little insight into me. I will never come onto a message board and be critical of those trying their best...coach or player. It's not my style. I will always err on the side of being positive. AND, most of the stuff here is just harmless message board banter.

In terms of judging a game coach....I'll just say this....not many coaches get fired when they have good players. Like clockwork, the teams at the top have the best players, with few exceptions. So, it comes back to recruiting. That's where the discussion should be focused. I just disagree with many here about what it takes to improve recruiting.

 

[RUChoppin]

So, it comes back to recruiting. That's where the discussion should be focused. I just disagree with many here about what it takes to improve recruiting.

At this point having a single player committed to the school for next year would be an improvement on recruiting.

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

At this point having a single player committed to the school for next year would be an improvement on recruiting.

I have no idea what will happen in the spring recruiting period, do you? lol Freeman and Laurent, two pretty good players, were signed last spring. This conversation needs to be put on he shelf until then...agree?

Lots of playing time available for recruits and if Hobbs announces facility plans, that could create some much needed buzz.

 

[RUinFla]

Another .guy who gets it.

This is program where sub .500 and missing the NIT was the norm for 25 years. These idiots want to fire and the hire the 6th coach in 25 years. Invest in the program, level the playing and let the current coach bring in better players....everyone knows better players play better....except the idiots now attempting to take over the board with their ant-coach crusade.

Chopping, Gary Waters didn't know the area and alienated some people by not knowing how important summer ball was. Same tired facilities--but he won some huge games and took us to a few NIT's along the way, and made the RAC a house of horrors for the Dreaded Opposition. Why? He was a good coach, something almost no one would acknowledge when the drum fire to get rid of him and install Fred Hill crested. Couple of years later, was at the NCAA first round in Miami when Gary's Cleveland State team beat a Wake Forest team with 5 future NBA players. Cleveland State had one guy that found his way to the NBA. We fired the best coach we had in a generation because our AD was convinced The Hall would snap up Fred Hill Jr to be their coach. You think Cleveland State has great facilities? Think again.
TL

 

[Pritz99]

Let's go back a long way: In the early 70's it wasn't the facilities that got Sellers, et al to come to Rutgers.

Craig Littlepaige won a max of 8 games a year for 3 years. With the exact same players + 1 bench warmer we all remember what he did, don't we? High level xfers and Jucos followed immediately. Facilities changed not one iota.

I was a strong EJ proponent when Waters was fired! I was a solid believer he would get it done. And while I'm not disappointed in his recruiting so far (jury is still out for 16-17), the lack of skill, development, heart, chemistry, fight, and BB IQ is stunning -- particularly with a team that is not untalented.

Better facilities would be nice, but does anyone seriously believe that if we had a brand-spanking new state of the art facility that this team would play any better...that anyone else is going to start going to the games?

Get a Vitale, a Valvano, a Foster, a Young. That's where you start. That's what gets kids to where they want to go. Success in itself will demand better facilities.

 

[RUChoppin]

I have no idea what will happen in the spring recruiting period, do you? lol Freeman and Laurent, two pretty good players, were signed last spring. This conversation needs to be put on he shelf until then...agree?

Don't agree. We have three schollie spots open for next year (I believe), and we have no commits less than four months from signing day. That isn't normal. We're the only team from a major conference who still lacks a single name that will be added to the roster next year.

As for Freeman and Laurent - they were the 4th and 5th signees last year, not the 1st and 2nd. We already had a class (Sanders, Johnson, Goode) at that point, even though we lost Johnson just a few months later.

 

[B0ski]

I start my drive from Ohio in the early morning...but, I'll give you a little insight into me. I will never come onto a message board and be critical of those trying their best...coach or player. It's not my style. I will always err on the side of being positive. AND, most of the stuff here is just harmless message board banter.

In terms of judging a game coach....I'll just say this....not many coaches get fired when they have good players. Like clockwork, the teams at the top have the best players, with few exceptions. So, it comes back to recruiting. That's where the discussion should be focused. I just disagree with many here about what it takes to improve recruiting.

Plain and simple, Jordan is a just over .400 coach - wherever he has coached. It's not your style to be critical of any coach that tries their best? I guess that means the Hurley's don't try their best?

 

[rufeelinit]

We increased the amount of available scholarships we've had over the years, which has made recruiting easier. That attracted better players sine we had more money, that got us ranked, us being ranked put pressure on the AD to move us into the RAC. Now we are in the RAC and have one of the best "wrestling arenas" in the country. Being in the RAC gets the program closer to the black. Now that we're that close more people want to invest and see how far we can take this thing (as in hiring name assistants now). Now all wrestling needs is a practice facility and we'll have almost everything we need to compete for a national title.

It starts with investment, like anything in life.

I don't think Eddie is a great coach. All I am saying is, nothing much will change without investment. If things could just change then all of our sports programs with dilapidated facilities wouldn't stink every.single.year.

EJ has the same number of scholarships as any other coach. No disadvantage to his peers. The wrestling programs success and the move to the B1G earned it the right to hold matches in the RAC versus Barn because there was interest. There was no facilities investment associated with that and one could make the case that wrestling also suffers from not have a practice facility better than the basement of the Barn. The investments were in the coaching staff starting with Molinaro and then Pritzlaff. Even from a scholarship perspective I believe wrestling does not fully fund based on out of state tuition costs. I don't disagree that we desperately need better facilities in many sports but others are making due with what they have much better than EJ is. You don't think if they won a little more and were not the source of so many jokes the fundraising might be a little easier?

 

[bingethinker]

Here's my (admittedly unsolicited) outside perspective:

Rutgers hoops has the potential to be good. It plays in the Big Ten. It's located in dense, talent-rich New Jersey. It's the only major conference team in the immediate NYC area. New Jersey's affluence as a state gives the AD fans with disposable income in its backyard.

Rutgers must absolutely invest in facilities as soon as it can. I've followed the practice facility debates here loosely for some time now. I think it'd be much more impactful for Rutgers to invest that money in a new arena. In one fell swoop the novelty of a new gym alone would give the program some positive buzz within the state, give recruits a reason to take visits and attend midnight madness, and give fans a reason to come to a Rutgers basketball game. This has to be paired with the hiring of a fairly successful (someone who could get you guys to .500 in conference in his first three seasons) and charismatic coach, of course.

A practice facility is a plus but a suitable arena is a must. Kids just want a cool basketball operations space with all the amenities. This cn be accomplished with a new arena. Someone in this thread mentioned that Maryland doesn't have a practice facility, yet its men are ranked #4 in the country and its women are #6. There are a lot of reasons that comparison is a poor one, but consider this: Maryland opened Xfinity Center in 2002 and UMD is just now shopping around renderings of its planned basketball practice facility to top-tier hoops donors. The priority was getting out of Cole and into a modern building.

Hopefully in a few years when the new B1G contract kicks in, Rutgers will be in a position to announce a new gym with an attached practice facility. At some point, the University simply has to do something. RU owes the investment to its student-athletes and to you guys as alumni and fans.

 

[SirScarlet]

I rarely comment on all the good vs. Bad coach talk. I focus on what's needed to get better players recruited.,.....because I know that 95 out of 100 games, the team with the better players win. There are some that think it is coaching only. I disagree and no one is going to convince me otherwise because, THE TEAM WITH THE BETTER PLAYERS WIN.

So, the issue comes back to what are the current impediments to getting better players.......that's all this discussion should be about.

ruman, cali, no brain, bac and others will say it's about the "lazy" HC and Staff....nothing else !!

Me....I think it's a combination of many factors and I think the opinion of our expert supports that view.

You are so wrong here

The team with the better players does not always win

Especially not in college basketball

The better TEAM wins (see I can do the cap thing also ;) )

But to beat teams with better talent you need a system and a good coach. Unfortunately we don't have that right now. And again, the best facilities on the planet will not change that.

 

[knights1212]

We have 4 open scholarships for next year. This year including Nigel Johnson we only had 12 guys on scholarship. We had one open plus we lose Lewis, Daniels and Grier.

 

[RUChoppin]

We have 4 open scholarships for next year. This year including Nigel Johnson we only had 12 guys on scholarship. We had one open plus we lose Lewis, Daniels and Grier.

So, with four open spots (31% of the available scholarships), we'll be going into 2016 without a single committed prospect for any of them.

 

[higgins3]

Rutgers has okay players on the court right now, but there are no signs of okay fundamentals. No signs of kids who want to play for each other. Our record is as is, and it's due to the fact of the all about me players.

Basketball is not engineering. Basketball is not rocket science. It is a very simple game. Space your offense, make off timed cuts, and pass the ball quickly. We don't have guys that want to pass the ball. We have more players that turn it over than who actually think about passing.

I would like to see a different player recruited. Is there talent on the floor right now?Yes. Do they want to play for each other?No. When you make that decision, you have no excuse when you lose.