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What I Fear Most is Transfers//No Quick Fix

RUMassAlum

Sophomore
Jun 7, 2005
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As this unprecedented disaster rolls on to its inevitable conclusion and RU MBB plummets to the bottom of Division I, long-suffering fans are feeling totally frustrated, embarrassed and (most of all) helpless. Their only outlet is on these message boards. Some posters are sharply and repeatedly focused on firing Eddie, and certainly there is a rising demand for that to happen as the losses pile up. Some talk about the unbelievable rash of injuries, often while still calling for the Coach’s head. For others, the present is so unbearable that they focus exclusively on tiny rays of light in the future, such as, we’ll have a lot of players returning next year, or, somewhere on the horizon, we’ll have new facilities. Still others, in their dismay over RU MBB, return to meaningless statistical comparisons, inevitably jumping back to Craig Littlepage’ s final season, (which, BTW, is an increasingly irrelevant comparison; the present situation is way worse, both for this season and for the future; enough with the Littlepage thing). My personal observations follow:

To me, there is one circumstance that overrides everything else: the strong probability of transfers decimating the roster of returnees, both in terms of numbers and talent. Yet not that many fans are focused on this.I think it’s likely that Sanders, after the nightmare season and the suspension, will chose to move his considerable talents into a better program (that would give him a choice of more than 350 other teams). Freeman, with a couple of seasons left, would be another prime candidate, and who knows among Laurent, Williams, Foreman? While RU MBB, thankfully, is not even in the same universe as the notorious 2003 Baylor mess—complete with numerous NCAA violations, not the least of which was murder—the end result could be the same. By that I mean a depleted roster that in Baylor’s case had all of 5 players returning. Those who post here under the assumption that most of our best players will stick with this program are being naïve. If we end up with a badly depleted roster and have to play our 3 untested rookies a lot, we could be in for another horrible outing. That would make it harder than ever to recruit, regardless of who is our head coach.

I also want to comment on the injury situation. I am not of the school of thought that says “so what, every team has injuries,” and a while back, one fan even listed the number of players injured for a whole bunch of NCAA teams, to “prove” that other programs labored under this handicap. Folks, I have followed college basketball for more than 50 years and RU MBB for 45. In all those decades, I have never, ever, seen such a destructive injury situation. This is because the injuries were so heavily concentrated in the frontcourt; 5 of our entire 6 person Frontcourt roster went down, 3 of them for the entire, or nearly the entire, basketball season. For long periods of time we have been Lilliputians playing against giants. How the hell do all 3 centers manage to go down, 2 for all or most of the year? How much can you play 6 or 7 players before they get gassed? Only a tiny fraction of college basketball powerhouses would have the frontcourt bench depth to remain minimally competitive under these circumstances

Coaches: I have reluctantly come to agree that Eddie is probably not the guy who can lead us to even modest success, because he is too damaged after this season. But it doesn’t matter as much as some Eddie-haters think, in terms of whether or not he stays for one more year, because an outstanding coach is just not going to come here. Why, for example, would Tommy Amaker risk his career when he has a great program at Harvard that regularly goes to the NCAA tournament? Or Mike Lonergan? Being in the B1G is no lure if your program can’t win a single game, no matter how hard Pat Hobbs might try to assure him otherwise.

So what’s the bottom line? I truly hate being this bleak, but the situation is like nothing that has occurred before in the program, including post-Mike Rice and FHJ before that. I am afraid that we are in for more years of pain. There’s no quick fix, even with a coaching change. If I am wrong and all of our key players stick with the program, I’ll be delighted, but I don’t think that’s going to happen.
 
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I believe there are usually transfers when a coaching change takes place- but not always. Let's just hope the ones we want to keep decide to stay. Perhaps they will welcome a coach who can actually coach, motivate and develop them and win some games along the way. We might be surprised!
 
Because Head Coaches have extremely large egos and are always up for a challenge.
 
I've never seen people more fearful of doing what needs to get done. When you make a mistake, correct it
 
we are building for the future, I don't care if players transfer, I hope the good ones stay, by the same token these same players can also transfer if Eddie stays...you have no idea what they are thinking

If the OP feels that Eddie isn't the right guy, then why go through the charade of more years, you make the change and you commit to winning in the future. Its going to be tough, its tough now, it literally cannot get worse, this team is going to 6-26 and 41 losses in 46 games with a 34 game conference losing streak and you are worried about transfers for next year so the team isn't going to finish 12-21 and instead goes 7-24, im willing to have that next year knowing that we are going to have a guy in here that can hopefully fix this mess
 
One other thought, when you see how Ash and Gooddale operate, work tirelessly and handle themselves, Jordan doesn't measure up well. Hobbs sees it every day


bingo...did anyone read the Politi artice about Ash...we need a hoops version. We need guys who will work tirelessly...did Jordan ever appeal to the students once...instead we have the court club and him talking about getting student buses to the game which has nothing to do with why they aren't coming. Those kind of arguments work when the team is 500 and you wonder where the students are, its not bus accessibility keeping them away but yet some around this program continue to deflect toward other issues before facing the main issue in front of us
 
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bingo...did anyone read the Politi artice about Ash...we need a hoops version. We need guys who will work tirelessly...did Jordan ever appeal to the students once...instead we have the court club and him talking about getting student buses to the game which has nothing to do with why they aren't coming. Those kind of arguments work when the team is 500 and you wonder where the students are, its not bus accessibility keeping them away but yet some around this program continue to deflect toward other issues before facing the main issue in front of us

Quoting yet another joke of a writer I see
 
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I believe there are usually transfers when a coaching change takes place- but not always. Let's just hope the ones we want to keep decide to stay. Perhaps they will welcome a coach who can actually coach, motivate and develop them and win some games along the way. We might be surprised!
Nice dream!Lol!
 
it was an interview with Ash...quotes from Ash...I will link it later but it shows how eager and energetic Ash is and how he knows and demands upgrades have to happen. Mike Rice energy was close to what we needed but he blew up. Eddies energy..give me a break, for a colossal rebuild like this you better be showing more
 
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I have a question for OP. Why would Sanders and Freeman transfer? Freeman has 2 years left to play 2, if he gets a medical redshirt. It makes no sense for him to transfer. Corey Sanders starts and leads big ten freshman in scoring (I think). Why would he transfer and sit a year? He's an NBA talent. He wants to get to the NBA as fast as he can. Sitting out a year does not help. He won't play more minutes anywhere in the country, than here
 
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I have a question for OP. Why would Sanders and Freeman transfer? Freeman has 2 years left to play 2, if he gets a medical redshirt. It makes no sense for him to transfer. Corey Sanders starts and leads big ten freshman in scoring (I think). Why would he transfer and sit a year? He's an NBA talent. He wants to get to the NBA as fast as he can. Sitting out a year does not help. He won't play more minutes anywhere in the country, than here
You can not pin the hopes of the program on two guys that are currently suspended.

Why did Corey get suspended? I think its obvious

Why did Freeman get separated from the team?

The penalties were not for being 5 minutes late to studyhall, I guarantee it.
 
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You can not pin the hopes of the program on two guys that are currently suspended.

Why did Corey get suspended? I think its obvious

Why did Freeman get separated from the team?

The penalties were not for coming being 5 minutes late to studyhall, I guarantee it.

You don't keep anyone who's not on the same page with new HC.

Eddie learned that the hard way, not that he had a choice or that it even mattered.
 
As this unprecedented disaster rolls on to its inevitable conclusion and RU MBB plummets to the bottom of Division I, long-suffering fans are feeling totally frustrated, embarrassed and (most of all) helpless. Their only outlet is on these message boards. Some posters are sharply and repeatedly focused on firing Eddie, and certainly there is a rising demand for that to happen as the losses pile up. Some talk about the unbelievable rash of injuries, often while still calling for the Coach’s head. For others, the present is so unbearable that they focus exclusively on tiny rays of light in the future, such as, we’ll have a lot of players returning next year, or, somewhere on the horizon, we’ll have new facilities. Still others, in their dismay over RU MBB, return to meaningless statistical comparisons, inevitably jumping back to Craig Littlepage’ s final season, (which, BTW, is an increasingly irrelevant comparison; the present situation is way worse, both for this season and for the future; enough with the Littlepage thing). My personal observations follow:

To me, there is one circumstance that overrides everything else: the strong probability of transfers decimating the roster of returnees, both in terms of numbers and talent. Yet not that many fans are focused on this.I think it’s likely that Sanders, after the nightmare season and the suspension, will chose to move his considerable talents into a better program (that would give him a choice of more than 350 other teams). Freeman, with a couple of seasons left, would be another prime candidate, and who knows among Laurent, Williams, Foreman? While RU MBB, thankfully, is not even in the same universe as the notorious 2003 Baylor mess—complete with numerous NCAA violations, not the least of which was murder—the end result could be the same. By that I mean a depleted roster that in Baylor’s case had all of 5 players returning. Those who post here under the assumption that most of our best players will stick with this program are being naïve. If we end up with a badly depleted roster and have to play our 3 untested rookies a lot, we could be in for another horrible outing. That would make it harder than ever to recruit, regardless of who is our head coach.

I also want to comment on the injury situation. I am not of the school of thought that says “so what, every team has injuries,” and a while back, one fan even listed the number of players injured for a whole bunch of NCAA teams, to “prove” that other programs labored under this handicap. Folks, I have followed college basketball for more than 50 years and RU MBB for 45. In all those decades, I have never, ever, seen such a destructive injury situation. This is because the injuries were so heavily concentrated in the frontcourt; 5 of our entire 6 person Frontcourt roster went down, 3 of them for the entire, or nearly the entire, basketball season. For long periods of time we have been Lilliputians playing against giants. How the hell do all 3 centers manage to go down, 2 for all or most of the year? How much can you play 6 or 7 players before they get gassed? Only a tiny fraction of college basketball powerhouses would have the frontcourt bench depth to remain minimally competitive under these circumstances

Coaches: I have reluctantly come to agree that Eddie is probably not the guy who can lead us to even modest success, because he is too damaged after this season. But it doesn’t matter as much as some Eddie-haters think, in terms of whether or not he stays for one more year, because an outstanding coach is just not going to come here. Why, for example, would Tommy Amaker risk his career when he has a great program at Harvard that regularly goes to the NCAA tournament? Or Mike Lonergan? Being in the B1G is no lure if your program can’t win a single game, no matter how hard Pat Hobbs might try to assure him otherwise.

So what’s the bottom line? I truly hate being this bleak, but the situation is like nothing that has occurred before in the program, including post-Mike Rice and FHJ before that. I am afraid that we are in for more years of pain. There’s no quick fix, even with a coaching change. If I am wrong and all of our key players stick with the program, I’ll be delighted, but I don’t think that’s going to happen.

Many good points here. We are fortunate that Pat Hobbs is our AD. I am sure there will be long meetings with Pat / Eddie and others on 3/10 and 3/11.

If Pat decides to make a change then the message to the players has to be that you (the players) came here to win games and the administration is doing everything that can be done to put you in a position to be successful. You (player) should enjoy your spring break and when you get back on campus I would like you to hear out the new coach, listen to his vision and give him every consideration and think strongly about playing for him.

We have all heard Pat speak and I am sure that he will convey the right message to the team.
 
I have a question for OP. Why would Sanders and Freeman transfer? Freeman has 2 years left to play 2, if he gets a medical redshirt. It makes no sense for him to transfer. Corey Sanders starts and leads big ten freshman in scoring (I think). Why would he transfer and sit a year? He's an NBA talent. He wants to get to the NBA as fast as he can. Sitting out a year does not help. He won't play more minutes anywhere in the country, than here
Fair questions, biazza.
My answer is this. Sanders will get a ton of minutes in his time here, but will not show to best advantage with a disastrously bad team around him. It's like a star QB on a terrible team. Also--non-stop losing, most of them blow-outs, is disheartening and depressing. Freeman will have 2 yrs. with a med red shirt but upperclassmen do transfer; just look at Eli Carter and Gylvidas Biruta among those at RU and many other schools. This program is a train wreck with no chance of making post season play or even coming close to .500. Horrible to play in that environment.
 
bingo...did anyone read the Politi artice about Ash...we need a hoops version. We need guys who will work tirelessly...did Jordan ever appeal to the students once...instead we have the court club and him talking about getting student buses to the game which has nothing to do with why they aren't coming. Those kind of arguments work when the team is 500 and you wonder where the students are, its not bus accessibility keeping them away but yet some around this program continue to deflect toward other issues before facing the main issue in front of us
Take articles about newly hired coaches with a grain of salt. If things don't work out the positive media approach will quickly turn negative pointing out every fault and nitpicking every move :D.
Honeymoon articles tend to be great PR for a new HC . I think Ash will be successful and a vast improvement from what type of HC Flood was.
But even Kyle had media support in his first season as HC:
>No doubt Flood has seen the benefit of Schiano's recruiting and details-oriented approach to managing the program. By keeping the head coaching position inside the family, the Scarlet Knights were able to continue the standard of success rather than hitting the reset button. Time will tell if Flood can build on that standard, but a win in the Russell Athletic Bowl would give the Knights double-digit wins, a feat they only accomplished once under Schiano. "<
http://russellathleticbowl.com/news...od-Off-To-A-Better-Start-Than-His-Predecessor

Eddie also had positive press when hired
>- It is a marriage made somewhere south of heaven, miles closer to the hell that Rutgers University has been through this year.<
http://articles.philly.com/2013-04-24/sports/38793314_1_mike-rice-tim-pernetti-eddie-jordan

What's scary in that article is:>"I'm 0-0 right now," Jordan said, smiling as if he, too, suspected it might not get any better than this.<
Reminds me of Flood's 1-0 BS:mad:
 
we are building for the future, I don't care if players transfer, I hope the good ones stay, by the same token these same players can also transfer if Eddie stays...you have no idea what they are thinking

If the OP feels that Eddie isn't the right guy, then why go through the charade of more years, you make the change and you commit to winning in the future. Its going to be tough, its tough now, it literally cannot get worse, this team is going to 6-26 and 41 losses in 46 games with a 34 game conference losing streak and you are worried about transfers for next year so the team isn't going to finish 12-21 and instead goes 7-24, im willing to have that next year knowing that we are going to have a guy in here that can hopefully fix this mess
bac2--not saying he should stay, not advocating that at all. Just saying that in terms of next year, we could be headed for more trouble, regardless of whether it's EJ or anyone else. The cupboard could be so bare that in a worst case, we barely have enough bodies to field a team.
 
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bac2--not saying he should stay, not advocating that at all. Just saying that in terms of next year, we could be headed for more trouble, regardless of whether it's EJ or anyone else. The cupboard could be so bare that in a worst case, we barely have enough bodies to field a team.
I feel if Hobbs thinks a change might be needed but on the fence, he should jump off that fence and make the change.
The facility upgrade isn't going to be started for awhile and getting someone to put a product on the floor that RU fans aren't complaining about might be the best way to help increase donations and attendance.
I think starting fresh might be in order, if Hobbs isn't confident Jordan can get the job done.
If Hobbs has confidence that Eddie can do it, Jordan should be given one more year to show he can sytart turning this program around and have his team play a competitive game, just about every game they play against top opponents.
Also be able to win the games against the programs that are considered not among the better ones.

I don't care how many posters say Eddie must go or Jordan deserves to stay.
I only care that Hobbs does what he thinks best and the money part isn't part of if Eddie stays or goes.
 
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I actually think the Littlepaige comparisons are valid -- and I've lived RU BB through both of them. I think I see both points of view on EJ and I just don't know what's going to happen. But let's toy with the glass half-full scenario:

1) We know Sanders is terrific. He's bound to be significantly better next year, especially if the suspension is the wake-up call we're hoping for.

2) Nigel Johnson. Given this board's propensity for anointing recruits/transfers as the second coming, I'd normally have my doubts. But, outside opinions certainly look at him in a very positive light. Surely light-years ahead of Bishop.

3) Williams -- another year of experience and the depressurization of coming off the bench, can anyone really expect him to take a step back? Maybe....he lives up to his potential...a little. (I can dream, can't I)

4) Doorson/Diallo. They've got to produce more than the Zero they showed this year. Better than Lewis? Not a difficult task.

5) Laurent -- Gotta admit he's a player. A year's experience should do wonders for his consistency and development.

6) Issa Thiam and the 2 others. Who really knows what to expect. But has anyone ever seen someone exceed expectations as a freshman? All you need is just one of them coming through, and who knows as the season progresses?

7) Goode. Well, maybe he transfers and another schollie opens up! Now there's an unexpected contribution!

So now we have a rock bottom record on which to build (6 wins). With a cupcake OOC schedule with a surprise or two when we play a P5 school (God knows, it'll be hard for them to get up for playing us) we get maybe 9 wins before the B1G schedule kicks in. What a story. From a 342 KenPom rating to 9 wins. Feelgood story of the year! Sanders EXPLODES onto the scene....RAC is packed (well, 5500)...Recruits want to get in on it.....a big time verbal.

Hey, maybe I'm overboard on the recruiting. No, I AM overboard. But up until that point, am I really out of line? Is it so far fetched?
 
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It really cannot get any worse than this season. If we lose to Minnesota, it will truly be rock bottom - we'll probably bottom out somewhere around 310-320 in kenpom, finishing below most of the MEAC.

There really is nowhere to go but up.

If a new coach comes in, and we have an exodus of players... we'll still probably finish better than we will this season.
 
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I actually think the Littlepaige comparisons are valid -- and I've lived RU BB through both of them. I think I see both points of view on EJ and I just don't know what's going to happen. But let's toy with the glass half-full scenario:

1) We know Sanders is terrific. He's bound to be significantly better next year, especially if the suspension is the wake-up call we're hoping for.

2) Nigel Johnson. Given this board's propensity for anointing recruits/transfers as the second coming, I'd normally have my doubts. But, outside opinions certainly look at him in a very positive light. Surely light-years ahead of Bishop.

3) Williams -- another year of experience and the depressurization of coming off the bench, can anyone really expect him to take a step back? Maybe....he lives up to his potential...a little. (I can dream, can't I)

4) Doorson/Diallo. They've got to produce more than the Zero they showed this year. Better than Lewis? Not a difficult task.

5) Laurent -- Gotta admit he's a player. A year's experience should do wonders for his consistency and development.

6) Issa Thiam and the 2 others. Who really knows what to expect. But has anyone ever seen someone exceed expectations as a freshman? All you need is just one of them coming through, and who knows as the season progresses?

7) Goode. Well, maybe he transfers and another schollie opens up! Now there's an unexpected contribution!

So now we have a rock bottom record on which to build (6 wins). With a cupcake OOC schedule with a surprise or two when we play a P5 school (God knows, it'll be hard for them to get up for playing us) we get maybe 9 wins before the B1G schedule kicks in. What a story. From a 342 KenPom rating to 9 wins. Feelgood story of the year! Sanders EXPLODES onto the scene....RAC is packed (well, 5500)...Recruits want to get in on it.....a big time verbal.

Hey, maybe I'm overboard on the recruiting. No, I AM overboard. But up until that point, am I really out of line? Is it so far fetched?

All of that... and you come up with a 9-4 record against what you describe as a "cupcake OOC schedule"? If that's going overboard with optimism, I can't imagine what you'd be like as a pessimist.
 
You can not pin the hopes of the program on two guys that are currently suspended.

Why did Corey get suspended? I think its obvious

Why did Freeman get separated from the team?

The penalties were not for being 5 minutes late to studyhall, I guarantee it.


THIS IS A GREAT POINT....

pinning the hopes on two guys who are sitting through MAJOR suspension...that's a huge red flag right there. Tread cautiously
 
Madhat...Im not talking about what Politi is writing...Im talking whats coming of out Ash's mouth and how he is impressing...neither Flood nor Eddie had any of those qualities
 
bac2--not saying he should stay, not advocating that at all. Just saying that in terms of next year, we could be headed for more trouble, regardless of whether it's EJ or anyone else. The cupboard could be so bare that in a worst case, we barely have enough bodies to field a team.


we will have bodies...we are not losing 8 players next year, we may lose 2 or 3 and they may be good players but we aren't losing 8. I think fans are okay with next season being poor. Plus you don't know if they will transfer. Freeman cannot transfer unless he is given special clearance...and if he isn't eligible for academics then we are protecting Eddie over a player that may not be here. Sanders could go but that means sitting out a year, not sure that's the fast track he wants to the NBA. Listen I can sit through losing, I have sat through it for 25 years, the past 3 years has been hopelessness for me and in my time as season ticket holder only the Fred Hill error gave me those same feelings but at least there was a bit more competitiveness
 
If they wanna transfer, that's fine. But ask them to meet with the new coach first, usually standard practice at other schools.
 
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RUChoppin -- You can't present yourself as an optimist these days. If I said 11-2 I would have been shot down faster than a Jew in Damascus. There would be so many posts flailing me....I don't have an ego that could handle it. (And I would never dare say "double our win total")
 
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