What is Kirk Ciarrocca's vision for the Rutgers offense? | TKR Takeaways
OC Kirk Ciarrocca spoke with reporters on Monday to discuss his offense and more for Rutgers Football
Football What will Ciarrocca’s offense look like?
- Thread starter ChrisNalwasky
- Start date
Run, Run, Pass, Punt. It's Schiano ball baby.
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Could you enlighten those of us on this board who must be truly ignorant of the game of football as to what options the offense has on the first three down in possession besides run and pass. Seems to me that each play in football results in either a run or a pass. What other option are you suggesting they should employ.
R = run
P = pass
R R R
R P R
R R P
R P P
P P P
P R P
P P R
P R R
Then add punts or repeats as needed.
Just about every path to a successful offense starts with prioritizing passing on 1st down.
I would disagree in the sense that whether you pass or run on first down isn’t the issue. Just about every path to a successful offense starts with a successful first down play that puts you in a second and 5 or less so you can have a wide open play book on second down. Unsuccessful first down plays, be they pass or run, usually lead to a pass only option on second down. It really is a matter of execution. Just like the path to a successful defense if usually stopping a team on first down and keeping them behind the sticks. Being able to do either on first down would be optimal.
So true.
And so much depends on what's happening in the trenches. Linemen never get enough credit.
But when you become predictable on first down, like running up the middle a disproportionally-large amount of the time, you reduce your probability of gaining those five yards.
I highly disagree.
3.5 yds on each down. That is the goal. Run, pass, RPO, etc. etc. Whatever it takes you need to average 3.5 yards per play.
Let's hope it doesn't look like the Rockettes offense we've watched for the last few seasons.
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Seems like that's the most logical way to view it. No reason to artificially constrain oneself to any specific pattern. Do whatever works for a particular team, a particular group of guys, to get that 3.5 yards minimum.
If both runs and passes work, then I would think that it makes the most sense to lean on the run, unless a team is down by a couple scores with time running out. Because running takes more time off the clock and the other team can't score if they don't have the ball.
And running a lot (while continuing to gain 3.5+ yards per play) can wear down the other team's DL and LBs. If really lucky, it can bang up the other team's DBs, them having to tackle big hard-running RBs (e.g. Gus Edwards types).
Is this serious?
Last year, New Mexico averaged exactly 3.5 yards per play.
It was ranked #131 out of 131 teams.
We even averaged 4.0 ypp (#129).
Backwards thinking.
Passing yards per play is generally higher than rushing yards per play.
It's more efficient to score passing.
Simple question: are you more likely to score needing 8 plays or 14 plays?
Defense doesn't care about the offense TOP. They care about the offense scoring.
I've never heard a defense ay "Our offense is scoring to fast for us. I wish our offense would take longer to score."
If I didn't know better I would think people are screwing with me.
But you just can't get the "Northeast Football" mentality out of the fanbase.
Well, while he mistakenly said average 3.5 yards in his second sentence, what he clearly meant was what he said in the first sentence: 3.5 yards on each play.
If a team gets 3.5+ yards on every play, they'll win a lot of games. They'll never not score a TD.
And when you become predictable on first down, like throwing every time, you don’t reduce your probability of gaining those five yards?? Who says you have to run up the middle every play. There are lots of gaps run plays are designed to attack. You aren’t suggesting you use the same pass play every time. The point is to be effective on first down on offense and get those yards and on D the point is to stop it. Predominantly Passing or predominantly running become equally predictable. Being equally effective at both creates good offensive success on first down.
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Nah, my thinking and logic is perfectly sound here. I said if a team has both strong running and passing games, and isn't down in points, leaning on the run always makes sense. And it does for the reasons I stated.
I never said to intentionally set out to score slowly. That's just a happy and often desirable side-effect of controlling the ball and the game via TOP. As long as you keep scoring on every possession, and you're even or ahead in points, running the ball a lot always makes more sense than passing a lot. Efficiency becomes irrelevant in that scenario. Why hurry up and give the opponent back the ball?
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Let me be clear here. I am not saying running is better than passing. True, passing plays generally produce more chunk plays. I am addressing the “predictability“ concept. Nick’s post suggested that prioritizing passingover running would be a better approach on first down, then drewbagel posted that running more often becomes predictable and reduces the chances of getting the yardage. If you ”prioritize“ either approach it becomes predictable and therefore increases the chances of a defensive stop. The best method is to be effective at both. Not a northeast mentality. Just be effective at both. And the best offenses are effective at both.
nope, this book is what KC neeeds
edit to reply to Knight Shifts reply to this 2 spots down.
Didn't think your post about Leach's book was a joke.
I just love the old wishbone when Texas ran it under Royal and Switzer had the Oklahoma running it.
( this reply could be considered a joke, but I seriously loved seeing the way the Longhorns and the Sooners ran it )
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And conversely when you run over 90% of the time on first down it has the same effect. We ran over 90% of the time on first down last year.
All kidding aside, the book by Mike Leach is a real eye opener. His offensive philosophy is ideal for teams that are outmatched in talent. And Rutgers will be outmatched in talent against almost every B1G team they face on their schedule.nope, this book is what KC neeeds
My post was not a joke.
Track record:
Overall
- Won 18 games over AP-ranked teams while his own team was unranked, the most since the AP Poll was introduced in 1936.[5]
Kentucky
Texas Tech
- 10 consecutive winning seasons
- 8 consecutive seasons with at least 8 wins
- 4 seasons with at least 9 wins[91]
- 1 season with 11 wins
- 9 consecutive bowl appearances[92]
- 5 bowl wins (most by any individual coach in the history of the program)[92]
- 4 seasons completed with team ranked in the Top 25[93]
- 19–11 record against in-state conference rivals Baylor, Texas, and Texas A&M
- 53–11 record at Jones AT&T Stadium, home of the Texas Tech Red Raider football team
- 2008 AP Big 12 Coach of the Year[37]
- 2008 Big 12 Coach of the Year[38]
- Coached 1 Fred Biletnikoff Award (Best Wide Receiver) winner: Michael Crabtree (two-time winner)
- Coached 1 Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award (Best Senior Quarterback) winner: Graham Harrell
- Coached 1 Mosi Tatupu Award (Best Kick Returner) winner: Wes Welker
- Coached 3 Sammy Baugh Trophy (Outstanding Quarterback) winners: Kliff Kingsbury, B. J. Symons, and Graham Harrell
- More than 150 NCAA, Big 12 and school records broken as Texas Tech's head coach[94]
- All-time winningest football coach in Texas Tech history[95]
Washington State
- 2015 Pac-12 Coach of the Year[96]
- 2018 Pac-12 Coach of the Year[97]
- 4 consecutive winning seasons
- First coach to win 11 games in a season
- Coached 1 Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award (Best Senior Quarterback) winner: Gardner Minshew
- 1 top 10 finish
- 2 bowl wins
Mississippi State
- First head coach to win against a top 10 ranked team in coaching debut
- Broke SEC and school record in passing yards in a single game
Mike Leach (American football coach) - Wikipedia
When did I say running all the time wasn’t predictable. I am simply saying if you are heavy in either direction it is equally predictable. Solving one predictable behavior with another is not an answer.
Hey gef21. Sorry to switch topics. But what do you think about Isaiah Washington? Can he put together a big senior season?
New video board, DJ sequence after each offensive series:
First play from scrimmage. Run up middle for 0 or 1 yards.
2nd down and 9 or 10. Backward Screen Pass for -1
3rd and 10 or 11. Quarterback run for 3 yards.
The difference is that passing yards per attempt is generally higher than rushing yards per attempt.
So even if you are "predicatable" - your being predictable with a much more efficient method.
Lets just looks at our terrible offense last year (note this isn't just 1st down so not a perfect example):
Play calling split: 52.9% rush attempts v. 47.1% pass attempts
Yardage split: 43.42% rushing yards v. 56.58% passing yards
Only 19 teams out of 131 had more rushing yards per game than passing yards.
79 teams had more rushing plays per game than passing games.
Despite most teams having more rushing attempts, a very small percentage had more rushing yards than passing yards.
Rushing Yards per attempt: 3.3 (#117)
Passing Yards per attempt: 5.2 (#128)
The best rushing yards per attempt was only 6.0 yards per rush (UCLA).
That would be #118 on the passing yards per attempt list (tied with Iowa at #118).
Our terrible passing offense nearly generated as many yards per play as the most efficient rushing offense.
He sure coached a lot of talented players for someone that’s supposedly doing more with less.All kidding aside, the book by Mike Leach is a real eye opener. His offensive philosophy is ideal for teams that are outmatched in talent. And Rutgers will be outmatched in talent against almost every B1G team they face on their schedule.
My post was not a joke.
Track record:
Overall
- Won 18 games over AP-ranked teams while his own team was unranked, the most since the AP Poll was introduced in 1936.[5]
Kentucky
Texas Tech
- 10 consecutive winning seasons
- 8 consecutive seasons with at least 8 wins
- 4 seasons with at least 9 wins[91]
- 1 season with 11 wins
- 9 consecutive bowl appearances[92]
- 5 bowl wins (most by any individual coach in the history of the program)[92]
- 4 seasons completed with team ranked in the Top 25[93]
- 19–11 record against in-state conference rivals Baylor, Texas, and Texas A&M
- 53–11 record at Jones AT&T Stadium, home of the Texas Tech Red Raider football team
- 2008 AP Big 12 Coach of the Year[37]
- 2008 Big 12 Coach of the Year[38]
- Coached 1 Fred Biletnikoff Award (Best Wide Receiver) winner: Michael Crabtree (two-time winner)
- Coached 1 Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award (Best Senior Quarterback) winner: Graham Harrell
- Coached 1 Mosi Tatupu Award (Best Kick Returner) winner: Wes Welker
- Coached 3 Sammy Baugh Trophy (Outstanding Quarterback) winners: Kliff Kingsbury, B. J. Symons, and Graham Harrell
- More than 150 NCAA, Big 12 and school records broken as Texas Tech's head coach[94]
- All-time winningest football coach in Texas Tech history[95]
Washington State
- 2015 Pac-12 Coach of the Year[96]
- 2018 Pac-12 Coach of the Year[97]
- 4 consecutive winning seasons
- First coach to win 11 games in a season
- Coached 1 Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award (Best Senior Quarterback) winner: Gardner Minshew
- 1 top 10 finish
- 2 bowl wins
Mississippi State
- First head coach to win against a top 10 ranked team in coaching debut
- Broke SEC and school record in passing yards in a single game
Mike Leach (American football coach) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
When I was at RU during the 2010 season Hansel and Griddle had something called an RRP Wrap which stood for Roasted Red Pepper.
Once the season tanked Hansel eventually put in parenthesis on the menu board Run, Run, Pass in honor of our abysmal offense that year.
It was more with less and most of the players wouldn't have likely sniffed those accolades without his system.
Kendal Briles about to be hired at TCU as OC. Maybe get a little bit of merge between the air raid/veer and shoot. Heupel has done that at Tenn. Everyone has their own spin on it.All kidding aside, the book by Mike Leach is a real eye opener. His offensive philosophy is ideal for teams that are outmatched in talent. And Rutgers will be outmatched in talent against almost every B1G team they face on their schedule.
My post was not a joke.
Track record:
Overall
- Won 18 games over AP-ranked teams while his own team was unranked, the most since the AP Poll was introduced in 1936.[5]
Kentucky
Texas Tech
- 10 consecutive winning seasons
- 8 consecutive seasons with at least 8 wins
- 4 seasons with at least 9 wins[91]
- 1 season with 11 wins
- 9 consecutive bowl appearances[92]
- 5 bowl wins (most by any individual coach in the history of the program)[92]
- 4 seasons completed with team ranked in the Top 25[93]
- 19–11 record against in-state conference rivals Baylor, Texas, and Texas A&M
- 53–11 record at Jones AT&T Stadium, home of the Texas Tech Red Raider football team
- 2008 AP Big 12 Coach of the Year[37]
- 2008 Big 12 Coach of the Year[38]
- Coached 1 Fred Biletnikoff Award (Best Wide Receiver) winner: Michael Crabtree (two-time winner)
- Coached 1 Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award (Best Senior Quarterback) winner: Graham Harrell
- Coached 1 Mosi Tatupu Award (Best Kick Returner) winner: Wes Welker
- Coached 3 Sammy Baugh Trophy (Outstanding Quarterback) winners: Kliff Kingsbury, B. J. Symons, and Graham Harrell
- More than 150 NCAA, Big 12 and school records broken as Texas Tech's head coach[94]
- All-time winningest football coach in Texas Tech history[95]
Washington State
- 2015 Pac-12 Coach of the Year[96]
- 2018 Pac-12 Coach of the Year[97]
- 4 consecutive winning seasons
- First coach to win 11 games in a season
- Coached 1 Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award (Best Senior Quarterback) winner: Gardner Minshew
- 1 top 10 finish
- 2 bowl wins
Mississippi State
- First head coach to win against a top 10 ranked team in coaching debut
- Broke SEC and school record in passing yards in a single game
Mike Leach (American football coach) - Wikipedia
BTW this past season, Arkansas under Briles had the 15th ranked offense and 7th ranked rushing offense in the country. I've mentioned it multiple times here, despite what people think these offenses can and do run the ball. Leach was on the extreme end (though it seemed like even he ran the ball more than he used to) but most of the others aren't like that.
I have a major disconnect between the potential of our WRs and their production. I think our WRs can be very good, in a specific offense. I think we can make a lot of money on crossing routes, levels reads on roll out, and quick hitters on RPO. IF we can get the run game going I think our WRs can be successful.
I also think our lack of a TE threat really hurt out WR production. We did not create a middle of the field threat.
I think the right offense, and the development of a TE or even an H and our WRs can be really successful.
Absolutely serious. 3.5 yards per play is a first down. Create a system that can consistently get 3.5 yards per play, especially on first down, and you can become very successful.
I never said you should run more than you pass on first down. I simply said you can’t be pass heavy either because you get equally predictable. Yes, I agree that pass plays generate more yardage on average when successful. But, when not successful they often result in far bigger losses. Sacks cost seven to ten yards and put the offense in a huge hole. You have to be able to run and pass to keep the defense honest.
Yes, that's usually the case. Sometimes, though, a team is so good at running that they can break down another team with a very high percentage of running plays, just passing now and then to take advantage of the D getting sucked in too close to the LOS.
I stopped reading when the words "it takes time" came up- he comes here with no f-ing time...don't tell me it takes time. GS 2.0 played his D-k in bed with a single QB...he has had HIS time- you come here to make play calls that make a difference this year with the QB Greg decided his fate with. Or, a new QB that is good enough for you to have a good offense this year.
Did Greg not explain that time was not on his side? Or is this what we are stuck with?
Did Greg not explain that time was not on his side? Or is this what we are stuck with?
Sorry, that’s BS. If he coached at Rutgers with our players, his results would not be successful. You can say he can identify talent and find the right guys to fit his system. but you can’t coach a guy to the NFL without certain level of talent.
