Who do you want us to be?

[ruhudsonfan]

Sorry, but this post makes little sense and contradicts itself. First you say that Rutgers will never "get there," not in our lifetime and not even before the next ice age, but then later say that the next 5 months are critical for the future of the program. Really? Like I said above, it's exactly this type of thinking that keeps us down. One regime change at the top could change the whole direction of the school, the athletic dept, and the football program. The culture surrounding Rutgers athletics could easily change with 10-15 years. It's happened at dozens of other schools with a quarter of the resources and talent that we have and in less time! It's this defeatist attitude that destroys us.

You could fill the head of a pin with what you know about me and my "defeatist" attitude.

But walking around getting pissed on your head and convincing yourself its raining isn't the sign of an optimist. It's the sign of an asshole...

If you can devise a plan that changes the culture of the entire state, the entire legislature and, oh yeah, the faculty and adminsitration, I'm all ears. Until then, it's all childish wishing. Might as substitute RU being a Top 10 program with the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause.

My post doesn't contradict itself at all. If you could read, I said that the next 5 months will determine if we can maintain and build on Greg's foundation or if we slip to pre 2005 levels.

 

[NickyNewark51]

Sorry, but this post makes little sense and contradicts itself. First you say that Rutgers will never "get there," not in our lifetime and not even before the next ice age, but then later say that the next 5 months are critical for the future of the program. Really? Like I said above, it's exactly this type of thinking that keeps us down. One regime change at the top could change the whole direction of the school, the athletic dept, and the football program. The culture surrounding Rutgers athletics could easily change with 10-15 years. It's happened at dozens of other schools with a quarter of the resources and talent that we have and in less time! It's this defeatist attitude that destroys us.

I'd just like to see our team play savage D/ST's with some sophistication on Pro style O....if GS would've given over the offensive reigns to a top notch guy and concentrated on his specialty we'd probably be where we want now if he stayed. I felt we were close as he learned on the job..

 

[jlariv9]

I started going to every Rutgers home game 30 years ago and became a season ticket holder 26 years ago.

In those early days, tailgating in an empty Scarlet lot, we used to have this debate with folks who are undoubtedly dead now. "How long will it take? Where were Rutgers be in 10, 20, 50 years?"

The reality is that the culture around Rutgers and Rutgers football hasn't experienced a fundamental change during that time. We've successively jumped to bigger conferences, but with each move we find ourselves at the bottom of the heap.

The only glimmer of light was under the reign of Bob Mulcahy. He got the first major stadium expansion done, he brought in Greg Schiano, he lined up the first major sponsorship agreements in the team's history, he singlehandedly strong-armed the folks in Trenton and got them to play ball.

For his trouble, he was disgraced by the media, abandoned by the administration and run out of town.

You might want to reflect on that for a while.

Thanks for the perspective, but I've been rooting for this team for nearly 30 years too. Your story only proves my point though. One man (or woman) can make an enormous difference and if they can sustain their influence and build support gradually, who's to say that change can't come and come quicker than anyone thinks?

 

[RU4Real]

Thanks for the perspective, but I've been rooting for this team for nearly 30 years too. Your story only proves my point though. One man (or woman) can make an enormous difference and if they can sustain their influence and build support gradually, who's to say that change can't come and come quicker than anyone thinks?

You're not listening.

Yes, Mulcahy did great things. And in the end one of the most politically savvy administrators this university will EVER see was crushed by the forces of ignorance that run the state and the university. All that's left of his legacy is a big stadium that's not paid for.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

An astute observer of RU football made a great point to me earlier today.

People mistakenly equated B10 admission with a golden ticket to the Top 20. It was the final step in awakening the "sleeping giant." When in reality, the B10, just like the real world, needs ditch diggers too. Conferences, even the B10, have bottom feeders.

We reside in a division with 3 of the 10 biggest brands in college football history. This is likely to be the worst PSU program we face in the next 10 years and we are 0-2 and the results are trending in the wrong direction on the scoreboard. Michigan has a Super Bowl coach. OSU has a first ballot HOF with 3 rings. They shit 5 star recruits. Oh yeah, we also have MSU--a team that has been in the Top 10 for the better part of a decade in our division and has a Top 15 coach.

We have a department that can't raise the $500k it would take to get to $2M to pay a coach and you guys are talking about annual Top 10 teams?

It will be pure luck to ever finish higher than 3rd for most of our lifetimes--IN OUR OWN DIVISION.

 

[RUScrew85]

That's the crux. Can culture the size and depth of Rutgers actually be changed? Maybe. But it will take a long time and full shift in philosophy. It is possible, but highly unlikely.

It's on the order of the same likelihood of NJ becoming a Republican state. It could happen but it's a long, long shot.

 

[jlariv9]

You're not listening.

Yes, Mulcahy did great things. And in the end one of the most politically savvy administrators this university will EVER see was crushed by the forces of ignorance that run the state and the university. All that's left of his legacy is a big stadium that's not paid for.

You guys just are not catching the idea of CHANGE. You say that change is impossible, but I don't believe in "impossible". It's a terrible way to think. Look, I'm no tree hugger or positive thinking guru or anything like that, but the more you believe a situation to be untenable, the more it is so. All you can say is "it's never going to happen for Rutgers" but, in reality, you are basing that purely on your own sad history with Rutgers and the fact that we are going through a shitstorm today. Like I've been saying, if you think defeatest, then you are already defeated.

 

[MoobyCow]

An astute observer of RU football made a great point to me earlier today.

People mistakenly equated B10 admission with a golden ticket to the Top 20. It was the final step in awakening the "sleeping giant." When in reality, the B10, just like the real world, needs ditch diggers too. Conferences, even the B10, have bottom feeders.

We reside in a division with 3 of the 10 biggest brands in college football history. This is likely to be the worst PSU program we face in the next 10 years and we are 0-2 and the results are trending in the wrong direction on the scoreboard. Michigan has a Super Bowl coach. OSU has a first ballot HOF with 3 rings. They shit 5 star recruits. Oh yeah, we also have MSU--a team that has been in the Top 10 for the better part of a decade in our division and has a Top 15 coach.

We have a department that can't raise the $500k it would take to get to $2M to pay a coach and you guys are talking about annual Top 10 teams?

It will be pure luck to ever finish higher than 3rd for most of our lifetimes--IN OUR OWN DIVISION.

I mostly agree with this, but the right coach gets things done. Maybe RU hires the next Chip (or Brian) Kelly. That's how schools make leaps, they get one coaching pick just right and if they are lucky that coach stays long enough that winning becomes expected and part of the culture. Most schools that get the one right coach do so by luck.

 

[cRURah]

RU has been playing football for almost 150 years but everything has changed now that we are in the B1G. The B1G means big time football and Rutgers really is not serious about being a player in that space. I have no hope whatsoever that within my lifetime Rutgers will ever achieve a top 10 ranking or even a top 25 ranking, not even once. This is a university and a state located in the most progressive and wealthy part of the country that is content to get humiliated on the football field by the likes of schools largely located in the corn belt. Content as long as the money gravy train is flowing. Rutgers is currently just a football whore. As long as we get paid, we're ok with just laying down and getting F'K'd. How the good citizens of NJ and the supporters on RU could tolerate such a humiliation is beyond me.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

You're not listening.

Yes, Mulcahy did great things. And in the end one of the most politically savvy administrators this university will EVER see was crushed by the forces of ignorance that run the state and the university. All that's left of his legacy is a big stadium that's not paid for.

Yes this is the point.

We had a transformative executive on board. He was run out of town on a rail with pitchforks and torches.

CULTURE...we don't have a winning culture. The power brokers in state saw Bob's success and were more pissed off that they couldn't control the construction bids and that there were potential revenue streams being created that they couldn't siphon. So they ran him out of town.

You think the next Urban Meyer or "insert winning coach here" is coming here under that pall? or better yet, STAYING once they succeed a little?

I don't fault Greg, but how much of his taking one of the worst jobs in the NFL had to do with the writing on the proverbial Rutgers wall? Here is a guy who turned down Michigan and eventually took Tampa. Not exactly how you draw it up...

 

[ruhudsonfan]

I mostly agree with this, but the right coach gets things done. Maybe RU hires the next Chip (or Brian) Kelly. That's how schools make leaps, they get one coaching pick just right and if they are lucky that coach stays long enough that winning becomes expected and part of the culture. Most schools that get the one right coach do so by luck.

I agree. The right coach can catch lightning in a bottle and win a little.

That isn't the same as being a perennial Top 10 program though. That is more or less being Iowa, depending on a few signature wins here and there.

 

[RUScrew85]

I started going to every Rutgers home game 30 years ago and became a season ticket holder 26 years ago.

In those early days, tailgating in an empty Scarlet lot, we used to have this debate with folks who are undoubtedly dead now. "How long will it take? Where were Rutgers be in 10, 20, 50 years?"

The reality is that the culture around Rutgers and Rutgers football hasn't experienced a fundamental change during that time. We've successively jumped to bigger conferences, but with each move we find ourselves at the bottom of the heap.

The only glimmer of light was under the reign of Bob Mulcahy. He got the first major stadium expansion done, he brought in Greg Schiano, he lined up the first major sponsorship agreements in the team's history, he singlehandedly strong-armed the folks in Trenton and got them to play ball.

For his trouble, he was disgraced by the media, abandoned by the administration and run out of town.

You might want to reflect on that for a while.

This quote from Heinlein seems appropriate.

Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck".

Throughout football history, sucking is the normal condition of Rutgers Football. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from fixing things, or (as sometimes happens) are driven out of town, the team then slips back into abject suckitude. This is known as "bad luck".

 

[MoobyCow]

I agree. The right coach can catch lightning in a bottle and win a little.

That isn't the same as being a perennial Top 10 program though. That is more or less being Iowa, depending on a few signature wins here and there.

Yes, but here, maybe more-so than at Iowa, if we catch lightening in a bottle we might might be able to step up and keep that coach. The media market and money in this area <> Iowa. The momentum of a big year <> Iowa's momentum. Despite a long history of sucking at almost everything, RU does have built in advantages over a lot of schools. I'm skeptical that we ever take any advantage of them, but it doesn't mean they aren't there.

 

[NickyNewark51]

You guys just are not catching the idea of CHANGE. You say that change is impossible, but I don't believe in "impossible". It's a terrible way to think. Look, I'm no tree hugger or positive thinking guru or anything like that, but the more you believe a situation to be untenable, the more it is so. All you can say is "it's never going to happen for Rutgers" but, in reality, you are basing that purely on your own sad history with Rutgers and the fact that we are going through a shitstorm today. Like I've been saying, if you think defeatest, then you are already defeated.

How many boomers my age thought Kennedy was a unelectable Irish-Catholic pretty boy who didn't stand a chance.....most were caught crying like us on the streets that November afternoon.

 

[scarletrat]

in every sense, I want RU to be Wisconsin or at least Utah.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

You guys just are not catching the idea of CHANGE. You say that change is impossible, but I don't believe in "impossible". It's a terrible way to think. Look, I'm no tree hugger or positive thinking guru or anything like that, but the more you believe a situation to be untenable, the more it is so. All you can say is "it's never going to happen for Rutgers" but, in reality, you are basing that purely on your own sad history with Rutgers and the fact that we are going through a shitstorm today. Like I've been saying, if you think defeatest, then you are already defeated.

AGAIN...you know nothing of the personal stories of the people you're talking to. I don't need a pep talk.

What we are doing is surveying the landscape.

Kennedy can say, "Get to the moon this decade." If he didn't then make the financial, institutional and cultural commitment to the goal, he was just running his yap. He did and we got to the moon.

You haven't laid out a PLAN or even the scribblings of a plan, that changes the 4 major impediments to RU success. You and and Tony Robbins can sit and visualize us in the Rose Bowl all you want. Until you can articulate how you will deal with:

1. The state legislature

2. RU Administration and their core values

3. An anti athletics faculty

4. The cultivation of DOZENS of new, high net worth boosters

you're just wishing upon a star...

There is NO evidence in the record that there is a legitimate solution to dealing with a SINGLE one of those problems, let alone all 4 of them. Finding solutions for at least 3 of them is mission critical to achieving the goal of being a perennial Top 10 program.

 

[ru8081]

The state of Michigan has two major research university with big time athletics. They also have 3 directional universities that are also in FBS. Compare this to NJ. It is embarrassing! Michigan is not exactly a state rolling in money. But NJ can’t even come close, our legislature should be ashamed. Yet the media talks nothing of this.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Yes, but here, maybe more-so than at Iowa, if we catch lightening in a bottle we might might be able to step up and keep that coach. The media market and money in this area <> Iowa. The momentum of a big year <> Iowa's momentum. Despite a long history of sucking at almost everything, RU does have built in advantages over a lot of schools. I'm skeptical that we ever take any advantage of them, but it doesn't mean they aren't there.

I will grant you that.

I will also present the counterpoint that when we had the 2 people in place that "got it" philosophically, one left at the working end of pitchfork and one left to take the worst job in the NFL. Just sayin'...

But yes, our upside is greater than Iowa's. But I don't believe our institutional culture is > Iowa's. Which brings us full circle, no?

 

[MoobyCow]

I will grant you that.

I will also present the counterpoint that when we had the 2 people in place that "got it" philosophically, one left at the working end of pitchfork and one left to take the worst job in the NFL. Just sayin'...

But yes, our upside is greater than Iowa's. But I don't believe our institutional culture is > Iowa's. Which brings us full circle, no?

Schiano left when it looked like we were stuck in the AAC, plus he was the guy who was unable to follow-up on the big season. Nothing about 2007-11 was the fault of the culture of RU, it was the failings of an apparently mediocre coach. If anything, the insane amount of support he received, including a stadium expansion and a pretty damn good salary is solid evidence that a guy who knows how to push hard enough will get the support he wants if he's doing anything right. Step 1 is to do things right and win. After that happens and we still torpedo a coach then I'll worry about culture.

 

[jlariv9]

AGAIN...you know nothing of the personal stories of the people you're talking to. I don't need a pep talk.

What we are doing is surveying the landscape.

Kennedy can say, "Get to the moon this decade." If he didn't then make the financial, institutional and cultural commitment to the goal, he was just running his yap. He did and we got to the moon.

You haven't laid out a PLAN or even the scribblings of a plan, that changes the 4 major impediments to RU success. You and and Tony Robbins can sit and visualize us in the Rose Bowl all you want. Until you can articulate how you will deal with:

1. The state legislature

2. RU Administration and their core values

3. An anti athletics faculty

4. The cultivation of DOZENS of new, high net worth boosters

you're just wishing upon a star...

There is NO evidence in the record that there is a legitimate solution to dealing with a SINGLE one of those problems, let alone all 4 of them. Finding solutions for at least 3 of them is mission critical to achieving the goal of being a perennial Top 10 program.

I don't give a rat's ass about your "personal" stories or your long history of being a miserable, self-loathing Rutgers fan. It is irrelevant to our future course. Survey the landscape all you want, but DON'T tell me that Rutgers can never change...that's my point! You cannot tell me that one person can't come in, ala Kennedy, and put the mechanisms in place to change the system and the culture - you can't so don't try. It's not my job to provide you with a 10, 20, or 30 year plan - it's the job of a person much more influential and intelligent than myself. There are plenty of examples throughout history where monumental change occurred, but you refuse to believe that can happen at a state university?!?! Small time thinking is what it is.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Schiano left when it looked like we were stuck in the AAC, plus he was the guy who was unable to follow-up on the big season. Nothing about 2007-11 was the fault of the culture of RU, it was the failings of an apparently mediocre coach. If anything, the insane amount of support he received, including a stadium expansion and a pretty damn good salary is solid evidence that a guy who knows how to push hard enough will get the support he wants if he's doing anything right. Step 1 is to do things right and win. After that happens and we still torpedo a coach then I'll worry about culture.

I don't disagree that Greg fell short in his 2006 follow-ups. I'm not a Greg zealot at all.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

I don't give a rat's ass about your "personal" stories or your long history of being a miserable, self-loathing Rutgers fan. It is irrelevant to our future course. Survey the landscape all you want, but DON'T tell me that Rutgers can never change...that's my point! You cannot tell me that one person can't come in, ala Kennedy, and put the mechanisms in place to change the system and the culture - you can't so don't try. It's not my job to provide you with a 10, 20, or 30 year plan - it's the job of a person much more influential and intelligent than myself. There are plenty of examples throughout history where monumental change occurred, but you refuse to believe that can happen at a state university?!?! Small time thinking is what it is.

So you have no reasonable way to get it done. Got it.

Wish in one hand and take a shit in the other...report back with which one gets filled first

 

[RUScrew85]

I don't give a rat's ass about your "personal" stories or your long history of being a miserable, self-loathing Rutgers fan. It is irrelevant to our future course. Survey the landscape all you want, but DON'T tell me that Rutgers can never change...that's my point! You cannot tell me that one person can't come in, ala Kennedy, and put the mechanisms in place to change the system and the culture - you can't so don't try. It's not my job to provide you with a 10, 20, or 30 year plan - it's the job of a person much more influential and intelligent than myself. There are plenty of examples throughout history where monumental change occurred, but you refuse to believe that can happen at a state university?!?! Small time thinking is what it is.

The change has to be in many places of the NJ/Rutgers culture. What one person could possibly accomplish that?

 

[jlariv9]

So you have no reasonable way to get it done. Got it.

Wish in one hand and take a shit in the other...report back with which one gets filled first

You believing that we will be bottom-dwellers for the next 100 years is just as ridiculously stupid as me believing that a great change could happen. How do you not understand that?

 

[ruhudsonfan]

The change has to be in many places of the NJ/Rutgers culture. What one person could possibly accomplish that?

The next John Kennedy or Ronal Regan...cause you know, that transformative leader is DYING to be the President of Rutgers and deal with a hostile legislature, a blood sucking media, an apathetic alumni base (though improving) and a faculty that hates athletics.

I suggest we place an ad on Indeed.com

 

[RUScrew85]

The next John Kennedy or Ronal Regan...cause you know, that transformative leader is DYING to be the President of Rutgers and deal with a hostile legislature, a blood sucking media, an apathetic alumni base (though improving) and a faculty that hates athletics.

I suggest we place an ad on Indeed.com

Maybe we can clone Springsteen, Brian Leonard and a re-incarnated Woodrow Wilson into one super NJ football supporter guy to fix everyone's attitudes. Oh and throw in Tony Soprano the character too.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

You believing that we will be bottom-dwellers for the next 100 years is just as ridiculously stupid as me believing that a great change could happen. How do you not understand that?

My only suggestion to you at this point, is to ring the nurses station bell and when he/she responds, ask them to read this thread to you in a way that simplifies all the big words I used.

Listen gramps. I'll try it again slower.

I never said we would be bottom dwellers for 100 years. I said, "we do not have the culture to be a top 10 program and it doesn't matter if you extend the time frame to get there to 100 years." That statement does not equal "we will be bottom dwellers for 100 years."

I think we can be Iowa. I think we can be Wisconsin. On the very highest end, I think we can be UCLA.

No, I do not EVER think we can be OSU, Alabama, LSU, USC, Georgia, Auburn, Michigan, Notre Dame (perception wise) or Florida State. I don't think the time will ever come that we are in the conversation as a NC contender on a year in and year out basis. The state doesn't have the stomach for what comes with that. Nor is it willing to make the financial commitment. Nor is the media willing to carry our water to get there.

Notre Dame and Michigan would be the exceptions to the group of schools above and between them they've had academic scandals and killed a friggin kid at practice. Can you IMAGINE for a SINGLE SECOND what would happen in NJ if an RU football coach sent a kid up in a scissor lift in 40 mph winds and he fell to his death? The program would be shut down. Brian Kelly gave a press conference and went about the rest of his day. And it helps that ND and Michigan have 2 of the top 5 developed donor bases in the country.

What can't YOU understand about any of this?

Visualizing success doesn't make it so...it's part of the process, but it needs to be accompanied by a plan. A plan which you admit to not having.

 

[RUScrew85]

The next John Kennedy or Ronal Regan...cause you know, that transformative leader is DYING to be the President of Rutgers and deal with a hostile legislature, a blood sucking media, an apathetic alumni base (though improving) and a faculty that hates athletics.

I suggest we place an ad on Indeed.com

Ronald Reagan - get it right. LOL.

 

[e5fdny]

In strictly B1G terms...

I would love to see a progression to an Iowa (under Hayden Fry) to start with and then a Wisky-type (under Alvarez) on and off the field for Athletics and the University as a whole.

And remember Hayden got his Chuck Long which helped a lot.

If we WIN here it would be huge. If we ever WIN...

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Ronald Reagan - get it right. LOL.

dictation llo

you of all people can stick spelling mistakes up your keester...

 

[RU4Real]

You believing that we will be bottom-dwellers for the next 100 years is just as ridiculously stupid as me believing that a great change could happen. How do you not understand that?

Taking timeframes out of the conversation, it really comes down to a question of history, translated into inertia.

Sure, miracles can happen.

But 99.999% of the time... they don't.

 

[MidwestKnights]

all the coaching search talk got me thinking "what do we really want this program to be"? More importantly "what do you think it could actually become" personally, I would be ecstatic to become Iowa. 7-9 wins a year with the occasional 10 and 4 win seasons. To me, people who think we will ever become some NC contender year in and year out are crazy. NJ's culture simply isn't willing to accept what it takes. Thoughts?

Wisconsin for starters.

 

[RUScrew85]

Seriously, so one liked my Heinlein quote yet?

 

[rutgersguy1]

I think top 10 consistently is pie in the sky and would take all the forces coming together that have been mentioned. I don't expect that. When I say MSU/Wisconsin I think teams that will generally be formidable and will be ranked in the top 25, not top 10, more often than not. In a 10 year span say ranked in the top 25, 5-6 times and the rest unranked but maybe with a .500 type record a couple times and 2-3 clunker years.

I don't think that's pie in the sky or takes everything in the universe to align just right. I think those are reasonable expectations of where we can be over time.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

Elite programs have elite cultures that surround them--namely, complicity of the press and cooperation of the state legislature.

Ain't happening folks.

Can we experience a good 10 year run of very good results? Sure. But anyone who thinks RU can be a Top 10 fixture for better parts of the next 25 years, is bat shit crazy.

Too much of this centers around catching lightning in a bottle just go get there once. Staying there requires a 180 degree cultural shift by administration, the legislature and non die hard fans.

Exhibit 1A: Oregon Ducks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Oregon_Ducks_football_seasons

The Ducks were perennially terrible until the last 20 years. The change required is not likely to happen, but it is possible. Talk to a Maryland fan...they went from generally depressed to thinking the sky is the limit.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

I think top 10 consistently is pie in the sky and would take all the forces coming together that have been mentioned. I don't expect that. When I say MSU/Wisconsin I think teams that will generally be formidable and will be ranked in the top 25, not top 10, more often than not. In a 10 year span say ranked in the top 25, 5-6 times and the rest unranked but maybe with a .500 type record a couple times and 2-3 clunker years.

I don't think that's pie in the sky or takes everything in the universe to align just right. I think those are reasonable expectations of where we can be over time.

And I agree with that

That's not the type of thinking that critiqued the OP though.

Anybody who wouldn't sign up for Wisconsin results, academically and athletically, is a fool.

 

[MidwestKnights]

No. Go out a 100 years. Go out until the next Ice Age if you want.

The sea change that would need to occur inside of NJ makes the probability of RU Football being a Top 10 team insanely remote.

I'd go so far as to say, depending on how the next 5 months play out, we have a better shot of returning to pre 2005 levels than ever sniffing being an annual Top 10 team.

Organizations have institutional momentum that is very, very difficult to change. It's like driving an aircraft carrier (although those have gotten better..lol). RU's institutional momentum is permanently set to "mediocre."

Some of that is budget constraints. But most of it is an imbedded culture that values things other than excellence. We value diversity (in and of itself not a bad thing, unless misapplied). We value accessibility. We value "trying." We value "nice guys." We value "cheap."

Michigan, as an example, values excellence. They value sane amounts of diversity. They value long term investment. They value student experience. They value killers over nice guys. They value their alums and their boosters.

When one looks at things, other than a glitzy Hale Center and Nike uniforms, we've become a fraud compared to our supposed peer schools. Greg was building this on a "rock solid foundation." It's taken Elmer Flood 3 years to have this teetering on the edge of shambles--and I'm not relegating that thought process simply to arrests and e-mails.

We're at a crossroads of what this state, administration, alumni base, donor base and current student body expect out of the athletics department. How they handle the next 5 months will tell you everything you need to know about the future of the program--5, 10, 20, 25 years from now.

Look at Purdue. Do you think it's not possible for us to be the East Division Purdue? Sure as hell possible from where I sit. And they have infinitely much more history and previous success than we have.

Very well put and reasoned. I agree 100%.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Exhibit 1A: Oregon Ducks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Oregon_Ducks_football_seasons

The Ducks were perennially terrible until the last 20 years. The change required is not likely to happen, but it is possible. Talk to a Maryland fan...they went from generally depressed to thinking the sky is the limit.

Yeah, I mean, I have no issue crafting my strategic plan on waiting for RU's version of Phil Knight to come along. Makes perfect sense to me.

In 2000, Knight was inducted into the Oregon Sports Hall of Fame for his Special Contribution to Sports in Oregon.[21] At the time of his induction, he had contributed approximately US$230 million to UO, the majority of which was for athletics.[22]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Knight

That was $230MM 15 years ago. I'm too lazy to look it up and your OU point is too dumb to warrant a real reply, but spitball what you think that number is up to now for the class

 

[RUGT]

AGAIN...you know nothing of the personal stories of the people you're talking to. I don't need a pep talk.

What we are doing is surveying the landscape.

Kennedy can say, "Get to the moon this decade." If he didn't then make the financial, institutional and cultural commitment to the goal, he was just running his yap. He did and we got to the moon.

You haven't laid out a PLAN or even the scribblings of a plan, that changes the 4 major impediments to RU success. You and and Tony Robbins can sit and visualize us in the Rose Bowl all you want. Until you can articulate how you will deal with:

1. The state legislature

2. RU Administration and their core values

3. An anti athletics faculty

4. The cultivation of DOZENS of new, high net worth boosters

you're just wishing upon a star...

There is NO evidence in the record that there is a legitimate solution to dealing with a SINGLE one of those problems, let alone all 4 of them. Finding solutions for at least 3 of them is mission critical to achieving the goal of being a perennial Top 10 program.

And I'd argue almost none of those are nearly as important as you make them out to be. The only way they would matter is if they somehow forced the AD to spend peanuts on a coaching staff, making Rutgers look content on just cashing their B1G checks; I don't see that being the case. Rutgers should be able to spend a decent amount of money on a new coaching staff. There is enough wealth and population in this area to have an absolutely enormous positive effect on the school if we somehow manage to hire the right coach. And that's the difference between us and many other schools: we have so much untapped potential and resources. Iowa is essentially saturated, as is Nebraska and probably Wisconsin. Not to mention if we somehow are lucky enough to hire the next urban meyer, I have zero doubt we would increase spending dramatically to retain him given the huge boon Rutgers would incur and past precedent (We payed Schiano top 25 salary for basically 1 good year while the AD was hemorrhaging money).

So unless you think our hiring budget will be hamstrung significantly in the beginning, I don't really see any of your points as obstacles that prevent us from being able to improve dramatically and surpass a lot of mid western schools.

EDIT: And let me just also add why our outlook is significantly better than say Purdue's or Indiana's. Coaches look at more than just compensation when choosing a school, they also look at probability of success given other tangibles (recruiting, future money, exposure, facilities). We are the single P5 team in a hot recruiting state where the other closest team is 4 hours away, wedged between 2 of the biggest media markets in the US in a high pop/wealth/density state with above average facilities. A coach would be absolutely brain dead to take a job at say Purdue versus Rutgers if you are looking at it from a pure "where do I have a higher chance to succeed?" standpoint. This factors into increasing the probability of landing a good coach.

 

[rutgersdave]

Never thought we would be a Top 10 program and never thought we were be in the conference contention in the Big Ten. It could happen every 20 years when all the other teams were getting rid of their coaches at the same time or suspended from bowl games. Rutgers can be a consistent 6- 8 wins team with the right coach. If we become a consistent 7-8 games winner and beat Penn State 3-4 years in a row then the top NJ recruits will stay in NJ and then we move to the next level. Pretty much what Mich State did to Michigan.