Who Does this Team Miss More...
- Thread starter Rac'nRoll
- Start date
Spencer and it isn't close (though I'd like to have Mulcahy too).
Hmmmmm do I want the second leading scorer for the number one team in the country or a guy who's been playing about half the game for a bottom 3 Pac-12 team? Tough call...
For me it is Paul though not an offensive machine Paul could create, pass and act as the glue and it would especially benefit Cliff . Back that guy down in the paint. We could use his 8-10 PPG and 6–7 REB and 6-7 assists . A guy many here have labeled as a loser now because he chose to leave.
Paul. We don’t even have reliable ball handling. And all of our guards struggle to get Cliff the ball. Paul created offense for Cliff easily
Thats the absolute wrong and amateur way of thinking about it. If washington had sinpson as their PG he would t play 1/2 of the teams minutes as a SF
It's one of about 10 different things you can say as to why the answer is clearly Spencer. You arguing it's Paul?
Yes Paul is not the shooter that Cam is but he is overall a better player… Rebounding… passing… and once in awhile he can make a shot.
I disagree. Paul may be better at those other things but not by enough to make up for the difference in shooting.
We have a guy that led the nation in dunks......our point guards can't get him the ball.
On 352 out of 353 teams in NCAA D1 Cam is better for their team than Paul
We are the 1 out of 353 that would prefer Paul.
You don't need to be a pseudo expert to know that last night we needed someone, anyone that could hit a three. Unfortunately many thought that Gavin would ease the blow of losing a reliable shooter-- it hasn't happened, yet. I'm guessing if Cam was here we'd have several more wins. We miss him most
lol...i've enjoyed most of your takes this season but i don't really know what to do with this one.
you know who else got Cliff dunks...Cam. second on the team in assists.
also best three point shooter, best FT shooter, top scorer, better rebounder than paul.
to me it's just not that complicated. you are asking if you want our best overall player or second best at worst or a guy who would use half the shot clock just to get the ball up the floor and into our offense and was losing minutes/responsibilities to Derek the second half of the season.
We are allowed to disagree. I think/don't know Paul was hurt or absolutely gassed at then end of the season. There were plenty stretches over the past 2 years were Paul was fantastic.
I think the primary reason we are so bad this year is our point guard play is off the charts bad. All 3 guys have failed miserably. They all have tunnel vision.
Question to you......what would Cam be on this team? Cam is better than Gavin on offense, YES. What Gavin can do that Cam can't is create his own shot. Cam needs a supporting cast and he has that at UCONN. I think he would struggle mightily here with these point guards.
Don't expect you to agree here, but that is OK.
I agree with you that he was probably hurt and also that he's has multiple fantastic stretches for his career. Love Paul and we most certainly have missed him this year.
To me though Cam is just so much more than a catch and shoot guy. He created last year more than you are giving him credit for. I know he's not gonna get into the lane and finish through traffic but how many of those reverse pivot type shots did he hit? He was also second in steals and only two behind Caleb. Second in assists. Fourth in rebounds. Not to mention the space he'd give the rest of our guys because defenses would be keying on him and not collapsing on Cliff in the paint.
And yes...I'd take them both back in a heartbeat.
Cam by a landslide. The only reason we miss Paul is that if he was here, Fernandes wouldn’t have to play at all.
Agreed. Though I don’t think Cam would have as good a season as he did last year because our PGs wouldn’t find him. He’s a decent ball handler for a 2 but not strong enough to bring the ball up (despite being a good passer).
Perhaps a more interesting question would be Caleb or Cam. Caleb oddly would be a considerable help to this year’s offense. He’d likely be running the offense in the halfcourt sets because while not as good a natural point as Paul, he’s a better distributor / primary ball handler / leader than what we have now. His 39.5% shooting from the field isn’t good, but again - would be a considerable upgrade over Simpson’s 31.9%, Noah’s 33.3% or JMike’s 36.9%. Outside of Cliff - he would lead the team in rebounds. And oh yeah, he’s the reigning DPOY.
No, our guards get Cliff the ball just fine, but he's almost incapable of doing anything with it. Many of us would have a better handle on the ball and court awareness than Cliff with our eyes closed and drunk.
Cliff gets alley oops from these guards too. The difference between last year and this year is that defenses now collapse on Cliff because we have no consistent three point shooters to defend instead. With Spencer on the court, teams didn't focus on Cliff. Better strategy to let Cliff shoot rather than Spencer.
Paul added nothing except whining and flopping.
I understand the point your making and there may be some truth to it but probably a lot less than you think. I mean, if what your saying was really happening so much, Hyatt would be getting a lot more open perimeter looks right? Last night, he got none. He took 2 contested 3s - one with the shot clock expiring I believe. Our guards have trouble finding him too.
It's closer than some think. Look how Cliff's numbers have tanked without Paul here. You have to factor in how much better of a Cliff we get with Paul here. Maybe Paul also gets Gavin more easy looks. He solves the size at guard problem. He helps with the rebounding problem. He wouldn't let players get away with these half assed efforts
Then you look at our shooting numbers and it's hard to not go with Cam. We flat out cannot shoot at alllll. It's so freaking painful. Cam also rebounds and is a very good passer. He's an underrated ball handler. Bigtime effort and competitiveness guy
The problem is we really do need both. We don't have a real distributor at guard who makes plays for others. We don't have anyone who can flat out shoot the ball
Then you look at our shooting numbers and it's hard to not go with Cam. We flat out cannot shoot at alllll. It's so freaking painful. Cam also rebounds and is a very good passer. He's an underrated ball handler. Bigtime effort and competitiveness guy
The problem is we really do need both. We don't have a real distributor at guard who makes plays for others. We don't have anyone who can flat out shoot the ball
Notice I said ‘consistent’. Hyatt isn’t consistent. Even so, both Hyatt and Spencer were 3 point threats. Opponents would take their chances focusing on those two and not Cliff. Now with Gavin, Simpson, Hyatt and Williams (the worst shooter of all of them), the focus is on Cliff.
Having Paul on this year’s team would not change the opponent’s defensive strategy re: Cliff.
By your logic, maybe losing Karl Hobbs is the reason Cliff’s numbers tanked. Paul isn’t the reason either.
It’s because teams would focus on Spencer and preventing three pointers. This year we’re bereft of consistent three point shooters so teams can focus on defending Cliff.
I’ll tell ya what this team misses more than anything else……the basket!
The team clearly misses both as they were both leaders and played with insane amounts of intensity and toughness. Things that are clearly lacking with this year's team.
After getting rid mostly of our rebounding issues the ULTRAscary thing about this team is for the most part they play with intensity and hustles. That's what makes this situaion even more hopeless.
As I said - I understand what your saying but in reality I don’t think many teams change their bread and butter defense for Rutgers. The scouting report says we suck at offense so why bother? Mostly I think it’s that Paul for all his other flaws, dribbled with his head up and found Cliff early in the shot clock often before the D even got set period. If he didn’t find him he slowed things down which led to a mundane slow paced offense.
Our guards, for better or worse, drive full speed ahead with their heads down hoping to get fouled. Sometimes it works and they do get fouled but the front court is mostly non-existent this year in transition because of it. Now Cliff has to work for every point in the halfcourt sets and after many years of not having to do that he’s fought through some frustration.
Of course teams do adjust their D depending on the opponent. Defending us is different than defending Iowa and Minnesota, who don’t have any semblance of a big man for example.
Adjustments yes - but a team that plays man D isn’t switching to zone to stop Rutgers offense. I just don’t see teams doing anything materially different with guarding Cliff. He’s not getting the ball as much and it’s not because he’s being double teamed more.
Teams don't only play 1 type of D. They may have a predominant style, but yes they do switch as the opponent dictates that they should.
I respect your opinion, but it's just wrong to suggest opponents don't adjust to play us or other teams. Teams definitely crowd the lane and swamp Cliff more than before because we don't have any perimeter scoring outside of Hyatt. It's affecting Mag's scoring too. He's much better around the basket than he is on the corner threes, but again, defenses are giving him that shot more than before.
Sure, the overall roster is weak and losing Paul wasn't ideal but he wouldn't have helped this year's team much because he wasn't an outside threat either.
Paul is better at those things and you seem to agree. Paul was a tough guy down low and he made Cliff so much better … Mulcahy made them all better. Frankly if you actually knew anything about what we lost then you might see why Cam is now a part of a much better team . People continue to badmouth this former Rutgers Alum. If Paul was here running the point or working with JMike we would be a much more productive club .
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