Why Flood will get terminated for cause

[ruhudsonfan]

The second investigation is a result of sworn statements by certain people inside of the AD, but not athletics, per se (use your noodles).

Imagine the conversation going along the lines of, "if you think this Barnwell thing is bad, you don't know the half of it."

The law firm leading the investigation is not our usual athletic department quicker picker upper from NJ. They are the Kansas firm that specializes in NCAA compliance and investigations. The KS firm was an observer in the e-mail investigation (which was led by the NJ firm). They were retained to conduct an overall "state of compliance" investigation for the entire AD.

If you don't think they were told to double check what is going on in the Hale Center, as opposed to say women's Field Hockey, you're out to lunch.

It seems Flood overplayed his hand around the results of the email investigation. He could have been fired and given his buy-out and while taking a short term hit to his reputation, have lived to coach another day. He decided to go in another direction.

The KS law firm has been tasked with making sure the bus that is about to run Fludd over is properly gassed up and tires are fully inflated.

 

[vkj91]

I don't think it's complicated. If Flood take the proposed buyout he gets to walk away. If not, the report will be used to get rid of him. I'm sure he or his people are smart enough to walk away. If he walks away then I think JH is safe but if not.......
Also, I'm not cool with punishing the staff but I think it's ok not to pay them if they get another job in 90 days.

 

[RUbanks]

I don't think it's complicated. If Flood take the proposed buyout he gets to walk away. If not, the report will be used to get rid of him. I'm sure he or his people are smart enough to walk away. If he walks away then I think JH is safe but if not.......
Also, I'm not cool with punishing the staff but I think it's ok not to pay them if they get another job in 90 days.

Flood is also a relatively young guy for a coach. For future jobs, it's in his best interest if this doesn't get ugly. A buyout is the best thing for both sides.

 

[kupuna133]

I get that you don't like his Coaching, that is your own opinion and you have every right to it. I guess you have your own reasons as to why you don't like him personally, but from a human being standpoint he seems (from a distance) to be a very solid man. He gives back to the community with all his charity work, is a family man. I get that he is not perfect and has made mistakes, but to hate on the man personally because you don't like his football Coaching is rough to say the least.

I am not sure where people get the impression that Flood does an inordinate amount of Charity work. It is PR. That is what a coach at any university does.

Personal experience. Years ago I organized a team from my job to do charity work in NYC. The team of 20 over a couple month period donated nearly 1000 hours of our time and raised multiple thousands of dollars. My boss did nothing but who got the credit and who was honored at the yearly gala? Kyle is a figure head so he gets credit that is not always of his doing. Just something that may sell extra tickets to the gala.

 

[rucoe89]

The beauty of hiring the independent law firm.
I linked to the coaches contracts. It looks like (If I'm reading correctly), that if Flood gets fired for cause, the assistant's contracts become null. That would save a decent amount of $$.

http://records.rutgers.edu/frequently-requested-documents/frequently-requested-documents

This also shows why Rutgers may never land a big time coach or keep a successful coach. Just way too much downside in this state with very little upside. Unbelievable.

 

[Leonard23]

The second investigation is a result of sworn statements by certain people inside of the AD, but not athletics, per se (use your noodles).

Imagine the conversation going along the lines of, "if you think this Barnwell thing is bad, you don't know the half of it."

The law firm leading the investigation is not our usual athletic department quicker picker upper from NJ. They are the Kansas firm that specializes in NCAA compliance and investigations. The KS firm was an observer in the e-mail investigation (which was led by the NJ firm). They were retained to conduct an overall "state of compliance" investigation for the entire AD.

If you don't think they were told to double check what is going on in the Hale Center, as opposed to say women's Field Hockey, you're out to lunch.

It seems Flood overplayed his hand around the results of the email investigation. He could have been fired and given his buy-out and while taking a short term hit to his reputation, have lived to coach another day. He decided to go in another direction.

The KS law firm has been tasked with making sure the bus that is about to run Fludd over is properly gassed up and tires are fully inflated.

 

[RUMBA-JK]

unless Flood has a closet full of little boys underwear - or is running a methlab in the football storage room, or an escort service out of his office ... the ONLY strategically intelligent move is to just dismiss him - and don't dabble in some marginal justification of an attempt at a "for cause' firing ...
think about it - think about some of the crazy things that coaches have done - some so toxic that they were dismissed immediately in the middle of the season because the university wanted to instantly halt their contact with the team ... name one that, in reality , ended up as a 'for cause' - you get zero pay out - firing ... it rarely happens ..... and add to it that Rutgers had the chance in September - but then decided that a three game suspension was appropriate punishment - and then restored him to his position, saying this is now behind us....

If , as a result of this second 'deep dive' , they scoop up additional details and then say " Now that we have thought about it and looked at more facts, we are highly incensed and we want more punishment - we wish to fire you for cause" many things will happen - none of them good for RU :

(1.) Flood's lawyers will have a field day picking this all apart - and Flood will get virtually all of the $

(2.) It will look , to most outsiders, like RU - who already punished the guy once - is trying to weasel out of honoring the agreement to save a few bucks - and is totally willing to 'pile-on the misery' for a departing coach who's career is already taking a devastating hit.

(3.) It will look to most prospective coaches like this Rutgers place is a destination to be avoided - because all coaches know there are "ups" and there are "downs" ... and if this is how Rutgers responds to the "downs" & how the knives come out when it may be time to move on - well, thanks but no thanks .

My greatest wish is that Rutgers handles this with class - Flood needs to be gone - Rutgers needs to turn the page & be entirely focused on the future - no lingering litigation, no lingering stigma that makes Rutgers end up looking like a place that is driven to seek out every last ounce of retribution. Just make it be over!

 

[AreYouNUTS]

The drug testing falls directly on Julie not Flood

No, it doesn't. It is up to EACH team to police itself, and report properly to the department/AD, per the university's policies.

 

[The Evil Empire 88]

I am not sure where people get the impression that Flood does an inordinate amount of Charity work. It is PR. That is what a coach at any university does.

Personal experience. Years ago I organized a team from my job to do charity work in NYC. The team of 20 over a couple month period donated nearly 1000 hours of our time and raised multiple thousands of dollars. My boss did nothing but who got the credit and who was honored at the yearly gala? Kyle is a figure head so he gets credit that is not always of his doing. Just something that may sell extra tickets to the gala.

He seems to be very involved. Maybe that's just the press, although they bash him at every turn so I cant imagine they would write anything positive about him.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

All drug testing goes through the AD.... If they were hidden it is from her not Flood.

So you think if Flood "hid" drug test results, from Julie, it's Juie's fault? Wow....:boxing:

 

[ruhudsonfan]

For what it's worth, this is an absolute CASE STUDY in management.

When you take over for a dynamic and incredibly popular executive (inside the department) you better damn well know where every subordinate's loyalties reside.

If anything keeps Flood awake at night for the next X number of months, it will be this.

 

[RU5781]

@ruhudsonfan has a way with words. I crack up at every one of his posts.

 

[RU5781]

So you think if Flood "hid" drug test results, from Julie, it's Juie's fault? Wow....:boxing:

Frightening, isn't it?

 

[jrseyboy]

No, it doesn't. It is up to EACH team to police itself, and report properly to the department/AD, per the university's policies.

You are correct that it is up to each team to police itself but Julie gets all reports

 

[hiwater]

Incredibly small time thinking on Rutgers part.

Agreed! Trying to beat assistants out of money like that will also negatively affect a coaching search as well as our next coaches ability to hire decent assitants. It would be a stupid thing to do that will just set RU back and cost them more money down the road.

 

[derleider]

I can find you many better coaches and recruiters that would agree to the terms.


When flood asked for the extension it was based on security for recruiting. the state of nj had a bumper crop this year. He did not produce the results.

Thats not the issue. No one wants to keep Flood - I doubt even at this point anyone who matters.

The point is - sure we will find someone - but by being asshole cheapskates, we are reducing the pool of people who would take the job or increasing the salary needed for them to feel comfortable doing so.

Its like when we tried to see FHJ out the door for his stupid fight,or Gary Waters for missing that one game. Sure those were stupid things to do - but its not how business is done and it makes RU look bad in a number of ways in the process with very little money saved (considering lawyer fees).

 

[AreYouNUTS]

I get that you don't like his Coaching, that is your own opinion and you have every right to it. I guess you have your own reasons as to why you don't like him personally, but from a human being standpoint he seems (from a distance) to be a very solid man. He gives back to the community with all his charity work, is a family man. I get that he is not perfect and has made mistakes, but to hate on the man personally because you don't like his football Coaching is rough to say the least.

- most HC's "give back to the community," mainly due to the fact that their student-athletes are "required" to perform 2-hours of community service, year, and..

- most HC's are "family men/women"

...how does that make someone a "very solid man"? This is nothing but a myth, made up here, IMHO. He may be, for all I know, but I'm certainly not going to assume anything at this point.

 

[jrseyboy]

Frightening, isn't it?

You know what's freighting is your vendetta. Get your facts straight Ed. Julie sees all drug reports there was nothing hidden from her. Where do you get this stuff from

 

[RU5781]

You know what's freighting is your vendetta. Get your facts straight Ed. Julie sees all drug reports there was nothing hidden from her. Where do you get this stuff from

Your spelling is also frightening. You should have spent a little less time in the weight room and a little more time with a book.
Speaking for yes now, are we? [roll]
Get a clue. Your boy Flood is gone.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

You are correct that it is up to each team to police itself but Julie gets all reports

Correct and how is Julie supposed to know if:

a) she has received ALL reports and

b) if they haven't been "doctored"?

Unreported, or falsified, drug tests can't possibly be blamed on her so long as, once she was made aware this was a possibility, she began an investigations into it. Had she looked the other way, knowingly, then you'd be right and any such shenanigans would be on her too.

 

[kupuna133]

He seems to be very involved. Maybe that's just the press, although they bash him at every turn so I cant imagine they would write anything positive about him.

I do not see mainstream press covering his involvement in charity work. Most of the spin comes directly from RU and internal advertising. Sure you may get a one off article regarding Special OIympics in one of the local papers but Rutgers athletics and the coaching staff have been involved with NJ Special Olympics since I was a student in the early 90's. RU has just been doing a better job since the Schiano days of creating a brand through these types of relationships.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

unless Flood has a closet full of little boys underwear - or is running a methlab in the football storage room, or an escort service out of his office ... the ONLY strategically intelligent move is to just dismiss him - and don't dabble in some marginal justification of an attempt at a "for cause' firing ...
think about it - think about some of the crazy things that coaches have done - some so toxic that they were dismissed immediately in the middle of the season because the university wanted to instantly halt their contact with the team ... name one that, in reality , ended up as a 'for cause' - you get zero pay out - firing ... it rarely happens ..... and add to it that Rutgers had the chance in September - but then decided that a three game suspension was appropriate punishment - and then restored him to his position, saying this is now behind us....

If , as a result of this second 'deep dive' , they scoop up additional details and then say " Now that we have thought about it and looked at more facts, we are highly incensed and we want more punishment - we wish to fire you for cause" many things will happen - none of them good for RU :

(1.) Flood's lawyers will have a field day picking this all apart - and Flood will get virtually all of the $

(2.) It will look , to most outsiders, like RU - who already punished the guy once - is trying to weasel out of honoring the agreement to save a few bucks - and is totally willing to 'pile-on the misery' for a departing coach who's career is already taking a devastating hit.

(3.) It will look to most prospective coaches like this Rutgers place is a destination to be avoided - because all coaches know there are "ups" and there are "downs" ... and if this is how Rutgers responds to the "downs" & how the knives come out when it may be time to move on - well, thanks but no thanks .

My greatest wish is that Rutgers handles this with class - Flood needs to be gone - Rutgers needs to turn the page & be entirely focused on the future - no lingering litigation, no lingering stigma that makes Rutgers end up looking like a place that is driven to seek out every last ounce of retribution. Just make it be over!

I'm not sure I follow. Let's role play it.

Greg Brown: Yes, Mr. Cowher, this is Greg Brown. I want to speak with you about the Rutgers head coaching vacancy .

Mr. Cowher: If I violate multiple ethics clauses in my contract, will you pay me no questions ask when you fire me?

Greg Brown: Well, never say never, but my inclination is no.

Mr. Chower: *click*

You can't be serious, can you?

The report is going to be used as negotiating leverage.

Take this reduced settlement and go regroup for a year and put your career back together. If you give us a hard time, we're going to bury you under the visitor's sideline.

 

[The Evil Empire 88]

as I said from a distance, but If you have a family and you take care of your Family and you find the time to give your time to charitable causes then I would consider that person to be "solid". Or at least off to a good start.

 

[lyndj]

No, it doesn't. It is up to EACH team to police itself, and report properly to the department/AD, per the university's policies.

You are incorrect, each team does not police itself, it is all done through the AD's office and the tests are done by a specific testing organization. When results are in they are NOT sent to the coach, they are sent to the AD and Compliance offices. That is how it works for just about every NCAA program, and every team so yes, the field hockey team, the women's gymnastics team, the soccer team--they all get tested by this service and results are sent to Compliance. Flood has absolutely nothing to do with the drug testing nor does he have a say WHEN it is conducted. Athletes usually do not know when they will be tested.

 

[kennyschiano]

he lied and tried to evade rules to get an an ineligible player and apparently bad seed eligible. those are not markings of a "good man"

 

[The Evil Empire 88]

he lied and tried to evade rules to get an an ineligible player and apparently bad seed eligible. those are not markings of a "good man"

No one is perfect and good men do make mistakes. that's part of life.

 

[kupuna133]

You are incorrect, each team does not police itself, it is all done through the AD's office and the tests are done by a specific testing organization. When results are in they are NOT sent to the coach, they are sent to the AD and Compliance offices. That is how it works for just about every NCAA program, and every team so yes, the field hockey team, the women's gymnastics team, the soccer team--they all get tested by this service and results are sent to Compliance. Flood has absolutely nothing to do with the drug testing nor does he have a say WHEN it is conducted. Athletes usually do not know when they will be tested.

Random drug tests are not so random.

 

[Knight Shift]

Frightening, isn't it?

The Ron Jeremy avatar is frightening.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Again, as I posted somewhere--in this thread of the other one--if what everyone's sources are saying is indeed correct, this looks like a classic case of more of Fludd's bungling decision making.

Barchi, Julie and whomever else let him or his reps know they want to let him go in September. He is defiant and says, "I'll sue." Rutgers, being Rutgers, blinks. But, Barchi, bot being a complete idiot (and apparently he holds a grudge...lol) says, "ok, have it your way." They spin up a second investigation. Those people are told they want to know if Fludd ever spit on a sidewalk or picked his nose before grabbing a donut from Wegmans without the little paper thing. Meanwhile, people under Flood's own org chart are chomping at the bit to take him down (more classic bungling). They reveal a laundry list of misdeeds (not closets full of boys underoos or hard drives of midget porn, but things that Rutgers has come to expect out of its football coach.)

He misplayed his hand and is about to be taught a lesson in negotiating and management.

Don't cry for him. He has collected years worth of head coach paychecks he wasn't qualified to receive.

 

[RU5781]

Random drug tests are not so random.

If you fail a drug test when you are an athlete, you're an idiot.

 

[RU1977]

Flood will be back next year...

If we currently had a winning (or 6-6) record at this point, all this talk wouldn't be occurring though..... The fact that our record is only better than Maryland and Purdue at this point is not good at all.....

 

[ru66]

rudhud--WHAT SWORN STATEMENTS FROM THE DEPARTMENT?? WHERE DID YOU GET THAT FROM?

 

[ru8081]

The thing that concerns me, for a lack of better words, why have there been no de-commitments if the writing is on the wall?

 

[lyndj]

Random drug tests are not so random.

I suppose for the athlete that needs to "fix" things there is probably closer attention paid to "when" it could happen I'm sure. And leaks do occur (no pun intended).

 

[rutgersfan7]

Meanwhile, people under Flood's own org chart are chomping at the bit to take him down (more classic bungling).

This would seem to implicate a very specific group.

 

[kupuna133]

Again, as I posted somewhere--in this thread of the other one--if what everyone's sources are saying is indeed correct, this looks like a classic case of more of Fludd's bungling decision making.

Barchi, Julie and whomever else let him or his reps know they want to let him go in September. He is defiant and says, "I'll sue." Rutgers, being Rutgers, blinks. But, Barchi, bot being a complete idiot (and apparently he holds a grudge...lol) says, "ok, have it your way." They spin up a second investigation. Those people are told they want to know if Fludd ever spit on a sidewalk or picked his nose before grabbing a donut from Wegmans without the little paper thing. Meanwhile, people under Flood's own org chart are chomping at the bit to take him down (more classic bungling). They reveal a laundry list of misdeeds (not closets full of boys underoos or hard drives of midget porn, but things that Rutgers has come to expect out of its football coach.)

He misplayed his hand and is about to be taught a lesson in negotiating and management.

Don't cry for him. He has collected years worth of head coach paychecks he wasn't qualified to receive.

Similar to what I heard. Nothing in the investigation is technically new material but the shear magnitude of his incompetence and hubris are astounding.

 

[kupuna133]

I suppose for the athlete that needs to "fix" things there is probably closer attention paid to "when" it could happen I'm sure. And leaks do occur (no pun intended).

Exactly and that is apparently the problem!!!

 

[KnightsofChrome]

No one is perfect and good men do make mistakes. that's part of life.

Yes, correct we ALL make mistakes. But, we also have consequences for those mistakes. The three game suspension was nothing more than "Puff." His actions over the past few years, both on the field and off, will determine his fate. And, at this point, with what we do know, Flood is gone. The only problem/question is how can the University do it with the least amount of fanfare, and complications.
And, as far as Flood and his reputation, well, I think he will land on his feet. They always do.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

rudhud--WHAT SWORN STATEMENTS FROM THE DEPARTMENT?? WHERE DID YOU GET THAT FROM?

GoFundMe...they emailed it to me with my refund

 

[AreYouNUTS]

The thing that concerns me, for a lack of better words, why have there been no de-commitments if the writing is on the wall?

Hmmmm....maybe, just maybe, these kids actually committed to RUTGERS, and not "Kyle Flood," which would be a good thing, as opposed to what some here have said, recently, that we'd "lose the class." Also, let's face it, we're the best option for a bunch of these kids, not-for-nothing.