Why is it So different?
- Thread starter Groz
- Start date
kcg88,
Thanks for putting the time in to write all of that. Most of what you wrote is true, but you are simply spinning it with the "reasons" for so many of the players that "matter". For example, just because a coach leaves, ditching teammates rather than making it work for the new coach. I think you can spin it anyway that you want with so many of the transfers.
Maybe, just maybe, it is as simple as Eugene just felt that he was being disrepected by RU bringing in Yeboah(possibly having minutes cut if not 100% healthy or not wanting to sit out at RU) and he was up to the challenge(right or wrong) of moving up to an NCAA "type" team(Oregon, etc) and continue to improve and show what kind of player he is(maybe thinking right or wrong) that he can finally play in the NCAA tournament. We might never know........
Best of Luck,
Groz
Thanks for putting the time in to write all of that. Most of what you wrote is true, but you are simply spinning it with the "reasons" for so many of the players that "matter". For example, just because a coach leaves, ditching teammates rather than making it work for the new coach. I think you can spin it anyway that you want with so many of the transfers.
Maybe, just maybe, it is as simple as Eugene just felt that he was being disrepected by RU bringing in Yeboah(possibly having minutes cut if not 100% healthy or not wanting to sit out at RU) and he was up to the challenge(right or wrong) of moving up to an NCAA "type" team(Oregon, etc) and continue to improve and show what kind of player he is(maybe thinking right or wrong) that he can finally play in the NCAA tournament. We might never know........
Best of Luck,
Groz
Even if it crossed the line of you actually run home crying and transfer bc of it you're embarrassingly soft.
I don't think this is the reason so not really worth continuing bc I just can't imagine him being such a baby
This is in my lead right now, but wouldn't assign a 50% probability.
If a player was gay or hispanic and the team constantly made fun of him to me that would be a valid reason to transfer AND as a fan a huge cause of concern. Or maybe personal comments about family.
Again big reach here, but my point is to make blanketed statement without knowing the situation is wrong.
It's certainly his right to do it for whatever reason he wants but you asked why it was different. He wasn't 1 of 40 guys moving from a low major to a better school. He wasn't 1 of 24 guys leaving because his coach got fired or left.
He's one of two players leaving a starting job on a high-major team as a junior to sit out a year. That's different.
When did fans of a school have to temper their anger that a player left their team in a lurch by leaving at an inopportune time? We're fans who follow a losing team on a message board. The guys here who are trying to find some counter argument to our anger are being too logical about it.
Basically, we're pi$$ed. Get over it.
Basically, we're pi$$ed. Get over it.
You seem to be commenting on people not being right in feeling betrayed by Eugene's decision while claiming that you're not. It is his right, yes, but he also could have consulted people on the team too. He made his choice and doing so in the way he did makes fans angry, and that is our right too because of the way he did it.
So this is what he gets, for not giving this team the courtesy of letting us know that he wants to do this. He could've still went his own way but at least we could have had a more mutual parting of ways and respect that he wanted to find a way to play in the tourney in two years. At the very least, he could've taken that red-shirt year this year and grad-transferred at the end of 2020.
There's always a better way of doing things. That's the way everything works in the world these days, didn't you know that? Certain actions warrant certain responses and this is appropriate for how he handled it. You reap what you sow
Girl as in PT...5 days into this and people still refuse to believe that RU doesn't have better players than Eugene....he wasn't a lock to start or play 28 to 30 minutes here anymore and left....there's ego involved with any player, fans still looking for what and why, when it's playing time and better talent coming in....not rocket science folks.....
Yes I'm sure you saw a dozen Stony Brook games on TV .
Hopefully the kid is an upgrade but we won't know that till we see 8-10 games .
While we may have better players than Omoruyi, and his minutes may have dropped in to the 22-25 range.... will those filling those 22-25 min, especially in the 4/5 spots, be an upgrade? Time will tell.
If they believe Rutgers has better players than Eugene then they are delusional. Look at the season statistics....why on earth would Eugene not play 28 MPG if healthy? What game last year did a healthy Eugene not play in crunch time.
If Yeboah was really as good as people say why WERENT MORE SCHOOLS AFTER HIM?
Who says they weren't? You don't know shit about the Yeboah recruitment other than that he had a prior relationship with our coach, which everyone knows.
Yeboah was likely ticketed here from the day he was announced leaving and other schools knew that during the "recruiting process". Teams that offered SMU, TCU, Clemson, Marquette etc...
You're question is why Eugene would leave if he was going to play is a good question....why did he leave?? He wasn't going from 28 to 30 minutes to 16 to 18....he was going to likely start.
There's no logic to Eugene leaving other than RU had a pretty good idea that they could get Yeboah and Eugene didn't like it. And because of that goal of improving the overall program and not totally appeasing Eugene, the player left.
This whole notion of what and why is clearly in focus to me. If there's no logical explanation other than the player being a ,"me-first" player, not sure what is surprising.
The notion and theory from the beginning is for me the same. He stays one more year at RU, likely plays his 22 to 30 minutes a game here at 80 to 85% full speed at best, gets beaten up during the rigors of a B1G season, which is his last one....
He could end his college career not knowing whatever else is out there and knows he's not going to be 100% healthy until he gets his knee worked on. If he transfers, he has to sit out and by all estimations, can get to 100% healthy in a year.
There's nothing wrong with that theory and if I'm going to sacrifice minutes because a more versatile player or two is on the roster or being recruited, why should he stay or stick around??
That's the best case anyone can think of logically. Anything else is a guess, a reach or heresay. Kcg88 put the information together on who transferred and what their situations were. Eugene and a couple of others are the ones that if he was a lock to play the same minutes, then why leave??
He's leaving because those minutes are no longer guaranteed....and it's RUs responsibility to add better players each and every season where there's a need or depth. We're not adding a 6th or 7th guard, Yeboah is a forward in today's game and he's here because he's going to make RU better. Whether Eugene wants RU to be better, if that means he sacrificed some PT, is the only logical reason for leaving. Better and more diversified offensive players in Harper and Yeboah are here.
It's not whether Rutgers had better players last year, but whether we will have them this year. Not even considering Yeboah, it's possible that some of the freshmen will be better overall as sophomores than Omoruyi would be as a senior, for instance - even though last year they struggled to get traction in the first half of the year, they really picked it up in the latter half.
Our freshmen, once B1G play resumed in 2019 (19 games):
Mathis: 26.9 min, 10.5 pts, 3.6 rb, 1.3 ast, 1.5 tov
Harper: 25.0 in, 9.3 pts, 3.5 rb, 1.1 ast, 0.7 tov (note: .347 3P%, .750 FT%)
McConnell: 19.1 min, 6.9 pts, 3.3 rb, 1.3 ast, 1.4 tov (note: .390 3P%, .771 FT%)
Johnson: 19.6 min, 6.0 pts, 6.1 rb, 1.3 ast, 1.2 tov
Compare to our two best players' freshman years in B1G play (all games for EO, post-restart for Geo):
Baker: 31.0 min, 9.9 pts, 1.7 rb, 1.4 ast, 1.4 tov
Omoruyi: 13.6 min, 2.5 pts, 2.0 rb, 0.8 ast, 1.1 tov
Is it reasonable to assume that the freshmen would improve as sophomores? Maybe not as big a jump as Omoruyi took, but still a step up in performance? Mathis/Harper are both knocking on the door to the Geo/EO "best players" club, and McConnell/Johnson aren't far behind. Then add grad Yeboah to that mix, too.
Omoruyi was a great player for us last year, but he still got "default minutes" at the PF spot - it was him for as many minutes as he could go (and at any level of health), then Carter and his defensive liabilities when he was off the floor (and Harper in small doses). Next year, there would have been a fight for minutes at the PF spot - Yeboah, Omoruyi, now sophomore Harper, potentially improved Carter... there's no saying that he'd have still gotten 28 mpg, even if healthy (or that any of them would). As we were saying before he left, those are "good problems" to have as a team... but for an individual player used to being "the man", those might not have been problems he wanted to deal with.
If he wanted an easier path to minutes, that's his choice - if that was even one of the reasons for him going. Take that path in March, though, not the last couple days of May.
As for Yeboah, articles at the time pretty much assumed he would land at Rutgers as soon as he entered the portal because of his prior relationship with Pikiell (recruited him, coached him during his redshirt year) - so it's entirely possible other options weren't really explored, or weren't talked about with the press.
Choppin...i hear what you are saying. I could just be overestimating what Eugene was. In my mind, when healthy, he is an elite player. I'll find out soon whether I was wrong or right. I thought this year was the best chance because the team would take a huge step back when Eugene left. I thought we had a lot of OK pieces, but Eugene was really the glue and without him.........
I really hope i am wrong here.
Also, the strides Eugene made are not normal. You can't plug what he did for others. Eugene went from a perimeter player in to an inside player over a summer and completely reinvented his game.
I really hope i am wrong here.
Also, the strides Eugene made are not normal. You can't plug what he did for others. Eugene went from a perimeter player in to an inside player over a summer and completely reinvented his game.
Thanks for this
Our freshmen, once B1G play resumed in 2019 (19 games):
Mathis: 26.9 min, 10.5 pts, 3.6 rb, 1.3 ast, 1.5 tov
Harper: 25.0 in, 9.3 pts, 3.5 rb, 1.1 ast, 0.7 tov (note: .347 3P%, .750 FT%)
McConnell: 19.1 min, 6.9 pts, 3.3 rb, 1.3 ast, 1.4 tov (note: .390 3P%, .771 FT%)
Johnson: 19.6 min, 6.0 pts, 6.1 rb, 1.3 ast, 1.2 tov
Look at McConnell rebounding vs Harper...we are going to need Harper to add a little girth to the scoring and rebounding numbers.
Our freshmen, once B1G play resumed in 2019 (19 games):
Mathis: 26.9 min, 10.5 pts, 3.6 rb, 1.3 ast, 1.5 tov
Harper: 25.0 in, 9.3 pts, 3.5 rb, 1.1 ast, 0.7 tov (note: .347 3P%, .750 FT%)
McConnell: 19.1 min, 6.9 pts, 3.3 rb, 1.3 ast, 1.4 tov (note: .390 3P%, .771 FT%)
Johnson: 19.6 min, 6.0 pts, 6.1 rb, 1.3 ast, 1.2 tov
Look at McConnell rebounding vs Harper...we are going to need Harper to add a little girth to the scoring and rebounding numbers.
I'm with you that Omoruyi was the heart and soul of the team last year, that the intangibles he brought were very strong (more than just a glue guy, he was an identity guy). But from a production standpoint, I think he would have struggled as a senior to hold onto his position as "most productive" player with these younger guns coming up behind him - and it's possible that he would have been pressed for minutes, or pushed more into a 6th man role that he didn't want.
All the freshman finished the season strong, and hopefully carry that into next year now that they're comfortable with the speed/intensity of the B1G game. With Baker already in an established starter role, Young coming in offering more competition, and Yeboah entering the picture as a grad transfer looking to make a splash on a bigger state.
Lots of guys who will be pushing each other for minutes this year.
All the freshman finished the season strong, and hopefully carry that into next year now that they're comfortable with the speed/intensity of the B1G game. With Baker already in an established starter role, Young coming in offering more competition, and Yeboah entering the picture as a grad transfer looking to make a splash on a bigger state.
Lots of guys who will be pushing each other for minutes this year.
I see the 1st part of this for sure, but not the 2nd.
I think you (and others) are taking a little leap of faith with returning players on the roster. I see Mathis as a guy who, if he puts it together, has the look of a real good player. I really don't feel the same way with anyone else.
We always overvalue young guys here. No one wanted to hear after freshman year that Issa didn't pass the eye test. I thought it was a huge leap for him ever to be a double digit scorer.
After freshman year I would never even fathom Eugene improving like he did. All of our young guys have height which really helps. I hope at least 2 take enormous strides. I guess I just don't have enough of a sample size to have confidence any of our guys are going to be "win because of" players. Not saying they won't, but just don't know who that player(s) could be.
I look at Mathis, Harper, and McConnell as having really improved over the course of last season, even as the competition increased. I've also heard positive noises about Harper/McConnell coming out of practice, which is a good sign that they're still progressing.
I think the odds of him receiving less playing time could have weighed heavily in his decision. A loyal person does not run off on a coach who gave him the opportunity almost no one else did. A loyal person does not desert a team in the middle of the night the way he did. And a loyal CAPTAIN of a ship, doesn't jump ship and leave their crew the way he did. All this in the face of a program on the rise with the opportunity to do something special. We talk about loyal Knights on these boards. Eugene is not loyal nor is he a Scarlet Knight IMO.
On a ship I'd think the crew would respect the captain. Eugene was captain by name, that is it.
Eugene might have
1. Left because of feeling slighted by Pikiell getting Yeboaeh
2. Left because he didn't want to play a different position
3. (doubt this one) Left because of less PT
These are all possible. I think the primary reason he left because he didn't gel with his teammates and wanted play some where else. Deshawn Freeman was captain because he was a senior. He was captain by name only. Anyone who watches this team game in and game out knows that geo baker is the captain of the team.
It was a classless move by a player I have a lot less respect for than I did 2 weeks ago. Simple as that
The sign of class will come when he settles with a team and whether or not he has bad things to say about RU.
If he lands at a school and doesn't bash Rutgers, players, or coaching staff I think we should be happy with the way he handled it.
Guess what? I don't give a flying f&*k why he left. It's his right to leave. I don't care about "deserting" his team or "running out" on them. So is every transfer doing that? Nonsense.
My complaint is in the "how" not the "what." As far as the "what" it's getting more and more common and we're going to have to deal with it.
The "how" is indefensible, the "what" need not be defended.
My complaint is in the "how" not the "what." As far as the "what" it's getting more and more common and we're going to have to deal with it.
The "how" is indefensible, the "what" need not be defended.
How did you want him to do it?
Full page ad in the targum thanking players, fans and coaching...that wouldnt be well received
Press conference?
Full page ad in the targum thanking players, fans and coaching...that wouldnt be well received
Press conference?
Just stop.
You are jumping the shark. You are trying to defend his leaving due to his team mates talking trash in pick up games. I mean really.
Maybe Eugene is what he appears to be. A soft kid who left in the dark of night and didn't have the courtesy to even spell his coach's name properly. All after we immediately get a proven talent at his position.
You sure you're a Rutgers fan?
This might be the funniest thing ever posted on a Rivals message board. His team was talking trash so he transferred. Cause no one talks trash in sports, much less basketball.
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If there is an annoying person you see at a party do you
a. Go over and talk to the person
b. Go and talk with other people
Are you soft for not talking to the annoying person? There are annoying people everywhere in the world.
a. Go over and talk to the person
b. Go and talk with other people
Are you soft for not talking to the annoying person? There are annoying people everywhere in the world.
People stop ripping a kid that has given his all for the program and has left because he is unhappy. We are allowed to affect change as people, but how dare the athletes we root for
You're talking about talking to annoying people at parties. Time for this thread to die
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