Will Johns Hopkins be a member of the CIC

[Abro1975]

The Committee on Institutional Cooperation Is Now the Big Ten Academic Alliance
Q. Why did the Committee on Institutional Cooperation (CIC) change its name to the Big Ten Academic Alliance?

A. Our new name directly and succinctly explains who we are and what we do, and eliminates confusion with the many other CICs (e.g., the Council on Independent Colleges). The previous name and acronym lacked resonance with larger audiences, and made it difficult for those outside of higher education to understand who we are and what we do.

Q. How will this affect the University of Chicago?

A. The University of Chicago has been an important partner to us for many decades. Although the University of Chicago will no longer be a formal member, our partnership will continue. We are working out the specifics around that in the coming weeks and months.

 

[bingethinker]

Which Hopkins was NOT a member. So still can't understand why they still couldn't play if they aren't in the same conference.

And the traditional B1G schools in LAX for the most part are just getting started. So give them time. As we have seen the way the B1G does things I don't think we will be waiting long for somebody not named Maryland or Hopkins to make a splash in the NCAA's.

Funny article from a few years ago saying Hop should go to the ACC. Some good reasons listed in it and the funny part is at the end which I will quote....

"Finally, the Big 10 wants them too. Perhaps. Maybe. Why be in a conference with Rutgers lacrosse, when you can be in a conference with 5 of the biggest names in, well, ever. Johns Hopkins looks a lot more like Duke and Syracuse and Notre Dame, than it does a boring flagship state university with 50,000 members."

https://atlanticcoastconfidential.com/2013/05/17/acc-should-add-johns-hopkins-for-lacrosse/

Yes, the schools would've continued to play out of conference as they had the previous then-110+ times. That's not the issue here.

It's a prestige thing and that matters when you're negotiating for a school that had a decent Plan B option. The issue for Maryland is that without Hopkins, the school would have left a lacrosse league in which every school had won multiple national championships to enter a league with zero programs that have made a Final Four and zero programs that would be considered sexy wins. When you're a program representing a state that lists lax as its official team sports and that's been to 6 of the last 10 Final Fours, the company you keep matters.

I think it's a major stretch to say that because the Big Ten started sponsoring lacrosse, Big Ten teams would suddenly become good or elite. Rutgers has the best shot of the bunch of improving their program the quickest, but that takes time, resources, and the right coach. It's not an overnight thing. Why would an elite program agree to sit around and wait for the others to catch up when it knew its old pal Johns Hopkins was looking to join a conference? That doesn't seem to make much sense for the elite program.

Hop lax to B1G was a win for the conference. It added the biggest brand in the sport while expanding BTN's spring programming and offering it to a large, lacrosse-crazed media market with fans of the sport who have disposable income advertisers would appreciate. Only a handful of Rutgers fans in this thread seem to be upset about their membership. Is it because of this years' NCAA tournament or because it's yet another thing UMD asked for at the bargaining table and received?

 

[Upstream]

* First, thank you for the laugh. LOL

I think it also comes down to is that B1G Lacrosse as it looks NOW provides an easier path for JHU to the NCAA's than maybe the ACC would.

Brilliant move by the B1G in getting them.

(1) I wasn't really going for the laugh here. I was just looking for a shorthand to describe Syracuse without going into the detail of how it is a small, struggling university of declining research stature with a student body overrepresented by wealthy kids from the NY metro area who could not get into more elite private schools.



(2) And while there may have been short-term appeal in the B1G offering an easier path toward an NCAA autobid than the ACC, I don't think that outweighs the long-term appeal of the B1G offering more stability and more money.

 

[SteveVA2]

For those of us who worked at a B1G school, the CIC was important for sharing of information and best practices. The first question I was asked by senior administrators when I wanted to do something new was: "What are the other Big Ten schools doing?" We frequently met with personnel from the other schools that worked on the same issues that we did and often consulted with each other by telephone. These contacts were important when I had to investigate a matter that also involved staff from Michigan State. So think what you want, it had great value to us.

 

[Upstream]

Only a handful of Rutgers fans in this thread seem to be upset about their membership. Is it because of this years' NCAA tournament or because it's yet another thing UMD asked for at the bargaining table and received?

I don't think the objection by a few has anything to do with Maryland asking for Hopkins to join the B1G. Rutgers benefits from this as well. Some of the objection may have to do with Hopkins getting a NCAA bid ahead of Rutgers (though I think the real anger should be directed at Navy getting the bid ahead of Rutgers). But I think most of the objection has to do with Rutgers fans not wanting schools in a conference for partial membership. Partial members was a big problem in the Big East, and that model has left a sour taste.

 

[e5fdny]

(1) I wasn't really going for the laugh here. I was just looking for a shorthand to describe Syracuse without going into the detail of how it is a small, struggling university of declining research stature with a student body overrepresented by wealthy kids from the NY metro area who could not get into more elite private schools.



(2) And while there may have been short-term appeal in the B1G offering an easier path toward an NCAA autobid than the ACC, I don't think that outweighs the long-term appeal of the B1G offering more stability and more money.

1) Come on, man. When it comes to Sarah around these parts you know we ALWAYS go for the laugh. LOL


2) And "The company you keep" kind of thing. I get that too.

 

[Caliknight]

Agree.

But in any relationship sometimes things change and the partners over time grow apart because both want different things. Maybe in 5 years it's even stronger, maybe in 5 years it's not.

They bring exposure we wouldn't have, an auto bid which is vey important, and ESPN.

They and the conference will want more of it in 3 years. Trust me, they aren't going anywhere.

Hopkins didn't pick the tourney teams. The gripe ain't with them. It's the people who chose them.

 

[PSU_Nut]

You can apply for joint grants, the really huge grants typically have multiple schools attached to them. Rutgers does this with Ivy League schools as well. Rutgers also has a joint Graduate program with Princeton. For the fans who just watch football, I guess it doesn't make a difference.

And you can do that with out the consortium. That why it is really over rated.

 

[mikefla]

Ive spoken about this on Laxpower.com since day one. Ive heard every permutation of why JHop is good for the B10 and I dont buy it. Other than in LAX, JHop is a small enrollment private, D3 sports school that shares very little with the rest of the B10 other than Northwestern. The rest of the B10 is big enrollment, public, D-1...and we compete in all sports. .

With MD, PSU, Ohio State & RU the B10 lax conference has plenty of credibility without JHop.

I look forward to Mich State RE-starting the program they dropped or another actual B10 starting a program so we can cut Hop loose....and be the Big ten Lacrosse Conference

 

[e5fdny]

Yes, the schools would've continued to play out of conference as they had the previous then-110+ times. That's not the issue here.

It's a prestige thing and that matters when you're negotiating for a school that had a decent Plan B option. The issue for Maryland is that without Hopkins,the school would have left a lacrosse league in which every school had won multiple national championships to enter a league with zero programs that have made a Final Four and zero programs that would be considered sexy wins

Still not sure the point here. JHU would still be playing Maryland whether they came or not, right? And they were never WITH them in the ACC, right. I thought Hopkins was an independent all these years up the B1G? Did they have an agreement with the ACC too? If true, I did not know that.

As laid out by @Upstream above, I see the "why" it happened for both the B1G and Johns Hopkins. Makes sense.

And prestige for who? That part I'm not sure what you mean.

I think it's a major stretch to say that because the Big Ten started sponsoring lacrosse, Big Ten teams would suddenly become good or elite. Rutgers has the best shot of the bunch of improving their program the quickest, but that takes time, resources, and the right coach. It's not an overnight thing. Why would an elite program agree to sit around and wait for the others to catch up when it knew its old pal Johns Hopkins was looking to join a conference? That doesn't seem to make much sense for the elite program.

I don't recall anybody said suddenly. Soon maybe but not suddenly.

My point there was the way we have seen as an outsider (and now an insider) on how certain BIG schools do things, it would not be farfetched to see the growth of tOSU or even Michigan start to show up when they set their minds and $$$ to the task.

And I really doubt the people who make the decisions at Maryland were thinking when the B1G called, "Gee, I wonder what Hopkins thinks about this? Maybe we should ask them."

I don't think the objection by a few has anything to do with Maryland asking for Hopkins to join the B1G. Rutgers benefits from this as well. Some of the objection may have to do with Hopkins getting a NCAA bid ahead of Rutgers (though I think the real anger should be directed at Navy getting the bid ahead of Rutgers). But I think most of the objection has to do with Rutgers fans not wanting schools in a conference for partial membership. Partial members was a big problem in the Big East, and that model has left a sour taste.

It's mostly this.

The NCAA thing is not a big deal to me, we beat them twice. The second time when it really mattered. That's good enough for me.

Johns Hopkins joined the B1G for lacrosse, not the other way around.

 

[Caliknight]

This situation is the reverse of the BE. We got ND's football team.

 

[Upstream]

This situation is the reverse of the BE. We got ND's football team.

very true

 

[wcicci]

This situation is the reverse of the BE. We got ND's football team.

Cali makes a good point. This isn't even like ND for hockey - which is a marriage of convenience and benefits the BIG as much or more than ND. Hopkins is a gold standard lax program. The fact that they are D3 in other sports creates less issues, as well

 

[vascosg]

And you can do that with out the consortium. That why it is really over rated.

I think it's another benefit of being in the conference which has a lot of room for improvement. This is where Rutgers can lead to change the face of the alliance and not just the name. Rutgers and Maryland bring New York and Washington, the hearts of power and wealth, to expand the midwest Chicago centric footprint. Overrated might be the description now but it would be a huge fail if the academic side does not carry it's own weight to leverage this opportunity.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

In LAX, the way it set-up now SOS is everything, it is the most important thing besides winning your conference. It is not like football where wins mean a lot more.


In LAX, teh way it is currently set-up, you get a TON of points for just playing the best teams, even if you lose, which is very bizarre. This is the part of LAX that I really do not like.

To game the system, Rutgers has to try to schedule the top tens in the country, even if we lose and do good in conference, that will give us a much better chance of making the tournament than just beating a bunch of lesser teams.

 

[Caliknight]

^ exactly right. At least if the committee wants to do so on any given year.

Look for us to upgrade the schedule though. I wouldn't be surprised to see another Ivy team on the schedule as well as an acc team.

 

[e5fdny]

This situation is the reverse of the BE. We got ND's football team.

very true

It's similar, I will agree with you guys there, but not exactly like that.

Unless they have their own deal with a major channel of a network (ESPNU does not count) and don't have to play everybody?

 

[Caliknight]

They have deal with ESPN. ESPN owns ESPNU. Every one of their home games is televised nationally. No other program has a deal like it. This coming season, our game vs. them will be televised nationally. It's wonderful exposure.

It won't happen, but if the B1G were to ask Hopkins to leave, they would be in the acc before phone was hung up. It would hurt the B1G and help another conference. It's a silly proposition to even ponder at this point.

There isn't a single reason to not want them in the conference. There are numerous reasons to want them.

Don't let your hatred of Hopkins cloud the good that having them in the conference does for Rutgers.

 

[e5fdny]

They have deal with ESPN. ESPN owns ESPNU. Every one of their home games is televised nationally. No other program has a deal like it. This coming season, our game vs. them will be televised nationally. It's wonderful exposure.

It won't happen, but if the B1G were to ask Hopkins to leave, the would be in the acc before phone was hung up.

There isn't a single reason to not want them in the conference. There are numerous reasons to want them.

Don't let your hatred of Hopkins cloud the good that having them in the conference does for Rutgers.

There is no hatred, as I said earlier, we beat them twice, the second time when it mattered. I would feel the same about any partial member in any B1G sport...feel the same way about the ND thing for hockey. I was hoping by being in the B1G we and the B1G would be beyond this kind of stuff now. But I get it and understand why it happened.

And I said ESPNU doesn't count! lol

You said earlier the B1G was "kind" to Hopkins, what do you think that means? I would hope everything is even steven and no special deals.

 

[17Q66]

Removing Chicago from the CIC is like saying MIT shouldn't be one of the top schools in the world. This is a huge mistake imho.

You think Chicago is making a huge mistake? I don't get the impression that the Big Ten booted them out of the Alliance, so I have to assume this is UofChicago's move.

 

[Caliknight]

There is no hatred, as I said earlier, we beat them twice, the second time when it mattered. I would feel the same about any partial member in any B1G sport...feel the same way about the ND thing for hockey. I was hoping by being in the B1G we and the B1G would be beyond this kind of stuff now. But I get it and understand why it happened.

And I said ESPNU doesn't count! lol

You said earlier the B1G was "kind" to Hopkins, what do you think that means? I would hope everything is even steven and no special deals.

Oh, it counts. Our boys will be on national television. It's awesome.

Hopkins has no special deal with the B1G. It has been kind in that it gives them a set schedule against rising programs who bring exposure of their own. A network, and an autobid. That is what I meant by kind.

There is absolutely no reason not to love this relationship. In stupid business jargon, this is a win win.