Tyrese Samuel poached from SHU for $500K NIL deal

[PSAL_Hoops]

Very interesting. That did not occur to me...

People are saying this went on under the table the same way forever before NIL. That is simply not true. There were major risks of violations and play off bans that could’ve set your program back for a long time if you got caught. The NCAA didn’t treat the UNC types the same way as the Baylors so there were clear advantages for the Blue Bloods even when assessing the risk of getting caught.

At minimum, there were no bidding wars because anything that left a traceable trail was a no go. Too risky. Today a team like Baylor has the relative upper hand over a UNC for sure. UNC is still a more appealing destination, but if Baylor’s boosters want there is now a price tag to purchase whoever they want which was not the case before.

 

[knightfan7]

Ok ill give myself 2 years before i retire

I get that. Good for the young men but I don't have to like it or follow the sport.

 

[NickRU714]

It’s to the benefit of the Miami’s and SMUs who have boosters with unlimited resources. Eventually, it’s going to paralyze the real blue bloods whose own boosters never had to shell out money to compete. That’s when we’ll see change.

The basketball blue bloods will strike first. Duke, UK, etc. Do you think they like this system? They got the best recruits without NIL. Now they have to pay to compete and pretty much any team can come up with the funds to buy a few big stars. The right coach can coach up a team with that and a bunch of role players in basketball.

Slowly but surely the impact will catch up with football too. It’s not as easy and you won’t have nearly as much parity there. But there are enough SMU types out there that will be able to buy full rosters and compete with the best. Suddenly your top 25 list will be flooded with names like that. Having money and having a legit following are too different things. Too many elite teams that lack the latter category will really hurt the sport. The last thing Alabama wants would be to have to pay millions to keep up with SMU and company.

Exactly. Despite everyone groaning about NIL, are we realistically involved with Ace Bailey if not for NIL?
I'm sure the other schools vying for him aren't happy.

But this was known and repeatedly said. Pre-NIL only the schools willing to cheat could compete for elite recruits. Now all schools have the opportunity to get players.
There is no structual reason for SHU to lose Samuel. Its purely on the fanbase now. Just like it was for all other parts of the program (we can't have a fancy practice facility to entice recruits because we don't have the donors).

The problem was fanbases couldn't clutch pearls anymore and say "Well we can't get those recruits because we don't cheat".
Now fans have to look in the mirror and say "we can't get those recruits because our fanbase isn't as involved".

 

[dconifer]

This NIL stuff is bad for college sports, if they let this continue uncontrolled

I think it's bad for people like you and me. But most sports fans aren't very thoughtful about what their watching, in my opinion. I.e, they love offense, home runs, slam dunks, long bombs, and don't care that rules are constantly being changed/dumbed down in sports to encourage such activity, as a marketing ploy just to keep the big money coming in.

And they won't care that Baylor and Miami are winning NCAA titles by buying players.

Time for you and me to find a new hobby...

 

[Scarlet Blind]

Were just talking a few years ago when naz reid went to lsu. “NIL” has made it out of control

I know when Naz was recruited, Hyatt was also bought, intentional, to LSU for less money too or did we forget that, if people want to waste their money to make their college teams better more power to them. Let's not kid ourselves that this hasn't been the case for decades in college basketball. NIL is just allowing teams that didn't partake in such behind the scenes shady dealings an even playing field. Yes the rich will always be richer and will out bid but they did that when NIL didn't exist.

Avg NBA salary 1992 $1M
Avg NBA salary 2022 $8.5M

I'm sure the college scale per player has probably increased around the same increments over the last 30 years too. NIL is allowing some universities to overpay for guys just like any professional sport, it is just a higher risk in college than professional sports. Overpaying doesn't always work out for the better.

 

[cm_13]

In a way, sure. But their value is just simply their ability to put a ball in the hoop. Not their “name, image and likeness” which is worthless

That’s true of literally any athlete though.

If you’re good enough at whatever sport you play, brands want your name associated with them. Hence why if you turn on your tv, you see athletes in almost every commercial you watch, or why in the 80s Nike made a sneaker line called the Air Jordan instead of the Air Eddie Murphy or the Air Reagan.

The value of pretty much every notable person’s name, image and likeness is tied to their ability to do x.

 

[bac2therac]

Some people think we shouldn't boo kids who are making $500k

Yep...thats out the window now...all these players are now professionals. I dont care they are 20.

 

[RU-ROCS]

Apparently its rumored (i have no source on this) that dickinson is getting between $3-$5 million for next season and that Sanogo has offers even higher

Absolutely insane if true. When will the NCAA grow a set of balls and stop this madness?!

 

[RUsojo]

Absolutely insane if true. When will the NCAA grow a set of balls and stop this madness?!

NCAA makes all their money on madness

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Ok ill give myself 2 years before i retire

I hear you but something has to give here eventually doesn’t it? There is one simple thing the NCAA still has the power to do that could instantly slow down the Wild West - put back the sit out rule for transfers and a lot of this is resolved.

 

[AshCatchEm]

NCAA makes all their money on madness

Historically strong yet small tournament schools are eventually going to fold programs if the disparity gets too great

 

[RUsojo]

Historically strong yet small tournament schools are eventually going to fold programs if the disparity gets too great

Fold? Because of a talent disparity? What schools?

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Historically strong yet small tournament schools are eventually going to fold programs if the disparity gets too great

In basketball this won’t happen. In fact, close to the opposite. Every school has a couple rich alum. That’s all it takes to buy a couple good players. Even alum from schools that don’t have traditional boosters could become players. A rich millionaire alum (non-traditionally follower) could simply find it empowering to step in one year and buy a few players to win their alma mater a title.

 

[GRU23]

Everyone talks about the disparity that will occur yet we just had one of the most wide open tournaments and seasons in college basketball history.

 

[NickRU714]

I hear you but something has to give here eventually doesn’t it? There is one simple thing the NCAA still has the power to do that could instantly slow down the Wild West - put back the sit out rule for transfers and a lot of this is resolved.

Nobody ever mentions this.
It's not "Transfer Portal" (which is just a database) or NIL that is causing the sudden roster upheaval.

It's removing the sit out requirement.
Put that back and everything stops.
Just make sure no more fake "hardship" exceptions.
When did anyone on a "hardship exception" end up in a worse athletic situation?
One rule: all transfers sit a year.

 

[RUsojo]

Everyone talks about the disparity that will occur yet we just had one of the most wide open tournaments and seasons in college basketball history.

Both sports mind you

 

[Pancho1939]

Wow, they’re making money based off what people want to pay them? Isn’t that what you guys advocate for in all other situations?

in all other situations, the person getting paid is brining that value to the payer or gets fired for not brining value.

There is no way in hell Reiber brings $70k of value to any program.

I do not know why people are being so obtuse about this. Every rutgers player who is getting paid is getting paid because of rutgers not their name, image or likeness. If they were paid for their name image and likeness then rutgers fans would pay seton hall players and vice versa if they could make money for their business. But there is not value so the fans just pay so their team can win some games not to make money for their business.


the IRS needs to audit every business who is paying players for NIL and try to write it off on their taxes. it is complete BS.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Nobody ever mentions this.
It's not "Transfer Portal" (which is just a database) or NIL that is causing the sudden roster upheaval.

It's removing the sit out requirement.
Put that back and everything stops.
Just make sure no more fake "hardship" exceptions.
When did anyone on a "hardship exception" end up in a worse athletic situation?
One rule: all transfers sit a year.

They got rid of the sit out rule because they knew they couldn’t defend it in court. Especially because it was applied arbitrarily, to Football and Men‘s and Women’s basketball, but not to most other sports.

 

[Eagleton96]

Who's money exactly will you be "spreading around"?
Asking for a friend

Your mom's. Actually, I don't have a specific proposal. But not having put much thought into it, I think a player's union where the individual player's NIL money, and also some league/TV money make sense to me.

 

[bac2therac]

Nobody ever mentions this.
It's not "Transfer Portal" (which is just a database) or NIL that is causing the sudden roster upheaval.

It's removing the sit out requirement.
Put that back and everything stops.
Just make sure no more fake "hardship" exceptions.
When did anyone on a "hardship exception" end up in a worse athletic situation?
One rule: all transfers sit a year.

Agree here...need to return to making transfers sit out...that will alleviate many of these pay to play issues

 

[dconifer]

Your mom's. Actually, I don't have a specific proposal. But not having put much thought into it, I think a player's union where the individual player's NIL money, and also some league/TV money make sense to me.

I am reasonably sure that the point he was trying to make was that a booster of program A won't want his money being spread to be used to buy players for other teams, and it seems like a legitimate gripe on the booster's part...

 

[RUDivision]

Agree here...need to return to making transfers sit out...that will alleviate many of these pay to play issues

Then schools and coaches need to honor there commitment and contracts. Which they never have and still don’t. If the adults NCAA, University Boards, States, and coaches won’t honor the commitments made then the kids shouldn’t either.

Kids should have always and more important moving forward should be allowed to transfer if needed. When the adults act the part then we can discuss the kids.

 

[RUDivision]

People are saying this went on under the table the same way forever before NIL. That is simply not true. There were major risks of violations and play off bans that could’ve set your program back for a long time if you got caught. The NCAA didn’t treat the UNC types the same way as the Baylors so there were clear advantages for the Blue Bloods even when assessing the risk of getting caught.

At minimum, there were no bidding wars because anything that left a traceable trail was a no go. Too risky. Today a team like Baylor has the relative upper hand over a UNC for sure. UNC is still a more appealing destination, but if Baylor’s boosters want there is now a price tag to purchase whoever they want which was not the case before.

Those bans were so loosely enforced it was worth it for schools to pay. All of them did and got away with it for the last 50 years. It obviously increasingly got worse and came to a head with the government investigation.

All of the country’s top coaches would have been exposed. They all would have denied it and pleaded not guilty because
It happened with out there knowledge. To avoid a public black eye and billions of
Dollars the NCAA created NIL.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Those bans were so loosely enforced it was worth it for schools to pay. All of them did and got away with it for the last 50 years. It obviously increasingly got worse and came to a head with the government investigation.

All of the country’s top coaches would have been exposed. They all would have denied it and pleaded not guilty because
It happened with out there knowledge. To avoid a public black eye and billions of
Dollars the NCAA created NIL.

They didn’t pay this way. There were no bidding wars.

 

[RUDivision]

They didn’t pay this way. There were no bidding wars.

Yes there were bidding wars and massive payments. Homes, cars, cash etc. Barkley said they were putting together millions to get Dirk to go to Auburn.
Jay Williams admitted to 250k for Kevin Love.

Those are just pro athletes pointing out what was going on with no fear of repercussions:

What about the truly Rich boosters ? They were paying far more

I hate it but, it is what it is.

 

[bac2therac]

These were a small amount of players and programs

Not every player at power 6 and mid majors

 

[biazza38]

Everyone talks about the disparity that will occur yet we just had one of the most wide open tournaments and seasons in college basketball history.

The wide open tournament was the result of a god awful tournament field. Probably the worst field in the last 20 years. Not a lot great teams. Not a lot of individual star talent.
That being said, I think basketball will continue to have parity. Football on the other hand, I thing the gap between the haves and have nots will get wider. I also think once the playoff expands, there will be more teams realistically competing for the championship

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

There have been a number of posters who warned that NIL which was seen as a fair reward to athletes whose name , image and likeness were being used but it would eventually cause a much bigger issue. The machine known as the NCAA had enough ample time to help set up a system with the colleges and athletes which would be a benefit . It is quickly getting out of hand. The scary part is how much can the programs in the 2nd levels absorb before saying we are done. In a short few years there will be the elite haves, the lesser have nots and lastly the ladies of the poor.

I was saying this about 6 months ago. How is RU going to keep throwing $ at a FB program that doesn’t have a chance.

 

[njxchange]

Absolutely insane if true. When will the NCAA grow a set of balls and stop this madness?!

I dont think its madness. College's are making a killing from these players. They are well deserved...
its like any job you have. how much value do you bring to the company?
If no colleges are making money off them, then give them scholarships and no more NIL but that's not the case...

 

[njxchange]

I was saying this about 6 months ago. How is RU going to keep throwing $ at a FB program that doesn’t have a chance.

maybe RU should keep throwing $$$ at a FB program, to have a real chance...

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

maybe RU should keep throwing $$$ at a FB program, to have a real chance...

I don’t think Rutgers has a lot of control here.

 

[njxchange]

I don’t think Rutgers has a lot of control here.

unfortunately i agree with you.... :o(

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Then schools and coaches need to honor there commitment and contracts. Which they never have and still don’t. If the adults NCAA, University Boards, States, and coaches won’t honor the commitments made then the kids shouldn’t either.

Kids should have always and more important moving forward should be allowed to transfer if needed. When the adults act the part then we can discuss the kids.

What exactly would your expectation be for coaches? It’s a job. Who stays at the same job their whole career? Just because a coach recruits a player does not they’ve committed to be the coach for their whole college career. That’s just silly.

There was nothing wrong or unfair about the transfer rule. I’d be fine with it not applying in the case of a coaching change, or even allowance for override in cases where the prior coach recommends the transfer due to lack of playing time (for instance - a kid like Miller - if Pike is endorsing a transfer the sit out year could be waved).

Playing college ball is still a privilege in its own right despite the income from so called likeness. That’s fine. The coach and school you choose are developing you and putting in the work with you. It shouldnt be allowed that you can just pick up after frosh year and auction yourself off. If your not happy with what your likeness translates to as a member of the college you selected you can still transfer but it should come with the one year sit out penalty - not no strings attached.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I was saying this about 6 months ago. How is RU going to keep throwing $ at a FB program that doesn’t have a chance.

Yeah, it’s a big problem for football. Not as much so for basketball and other sports. I think if they just put the transfer rule back things would settle down nicely for every sport other than football. It’s an adjustment - but the money doesn’t ruin all. There are still kids like Caleb and Paul who are loyal to a T despite collecting the pay check. Hard not to root for them (it’s so diff for Caleb to be able to collect a pay check to mitigate the loss of not making money in Europe than to go auction himself off for his senior year like Dickerson). Pike’s MO is to focus on landing those types of kids. I don’t think it will be a regular occurrence that we end up with kids doing what Dickerson is doing. We’ll still have mostly kids that are fun to root for at least. I think…

 

[fluoxetine]

Yeah I would like to see the transfer sit-out return. I think an exception for coaching changes makes sense.

I'm also not really sure why some think the NCAA would have problems with this rule? It's a limit on eligibility, not compensation. If they can't have a rule like this then can they even limit people to 4 years?

 

[kcg88]

I wonder what exactly is stopping a school from giving their football and basketball coaches a $2M raise with the understanding that money will be given by the coaches for NIL. Probably would be too obvious if they donated to a collective but they could pay some third party and then suddenly that guy wants to do a commercial with some players.

I'd actually be surprised if that wasn't happening on some level right now.

 

[RUDivision]

What exactly would your expectation be for coaches? It’s a job. Who stays at the same job their whole career? Just because a coach recruits a player does not they’ve committed to be the coach for their whole college career. That’s just silly.

There was nothing wrong or unfair about the transfer rule. I’d be fine with it not applying in the case of a coaching change, or even allowance for override in cases where the prior coach recommends the transfer due to lack of playing time (for instance - a kid like Miller - if Pike is endorsing a transfer the sit out year could be waved).

Playing college ball is still a privilege in its own right despite the income from so called likeness. That’s fine. The coach and school you choose are developing you and putting in the work with you. It shouldnt be allowed that you can just pick up after frosh year and auction yourself off. If your not happy with what your likeness translates to as a member of the college you selected you can still transfer but it should come with the one year sit out penalty - not no strings attached.

100 percent disagree !
I agree coaches and go if they want but it’s embarrassing when they stand up their and tell everyone that they are never leaving a school and that they will coach there forever. They walk into your leaving room and promise you and your family to be you your coach and help develop you for your time in college.

In the middle of the night just get up and leave for more money or recruit someone else to take your spot. Now the education that everyone talks about is taking away. No scholarship or education your just casted off and now you have to hope you can find another place to attend. NO one at the university looks out for their education or housing needs. NO one cares what happens to them after they are not part of the program.

You mention coaches endorsing a player leaving which is nice for someone like Pike so seems to be a nice guy. Not every coach is Pike and should not determine what a kid can and can not do. Pike recruited Miller sold him on a vision and less then 2 years later is throwing him out. That vision does not include you Jalen your just not good enough. We can sugar coat it but that is what is happening. From a hoops standpoint absolutely right move. No more education or housing for Jalen at RU. That great education taken away.
Look at St John’s which is a recent but small example. Pitino kept one player from the program and the rest were thrown out. What if they can’t find a seat in less then a year at a new program. What if the program changes offense or defense strategies? They no longer have room and board or even classes to attend. The school pulls all of its funding from the kids

If coaches can move and universities do not have to honor scholarships.( The universities only commit to one year contracts . They are renewed or not each year with the kids). So until that changes the kids can shop them selves and transfer as much as they want and should .be allowed.

Playing college ball is a privilege so is working at Facebook. If you can get more money for your talent and experience in any other area of life then college basketball should be no different.

Make coaches sit out a year if they leave for another school and the university at least honor the 4 year education commitments then I am on board with kids sitting. So if kids like Jalen or St. John’s are made to transfer at least they could choose to stay with room and board an education taken care of. Let them get that higher education. Until then unfortunately let kids transfer.

 

[NickRU714]

I wonder what exactly is stopping a school from giving their football and basketball coaches a $2M raise with the understanding that money will be given by the coaches for NIL. Probably would be too obvious if they donated to a collective but they could pay some third party and then suddenly that guy wants to do a commercial with some players.

I'd actually be surprised if that wasn't happening on some level right now.

Aren’t coaches already being paid by boosters?
It’s the same money - except instead of the AD begging (threatening?) fans to pay for the coach, now the AD is requesting fans pay for players.

 

[RUInsanity]

Have a hard time understanding why some people get so upset about player movement and NIL funding. Many of the same people who are vehemently against government regulations which stifle opportunity, money, greed, capitalism......want to regulate and stifle opportunity, money, greed, capitalism for college athletes simply because it might interfere with their entertainment expectations. Sounds like hypocisy to me.

Also get a kick out of the people constantly threatening to "quit" following these sports. As if they would be able to suddenly turn off emotions and rooting interests should RU make a run to the Final 4. LoL.

 

[RUsojo]

Have a hard time understanding why some people get so upset about player movement and NIL funding. Many of the same people who are vehemently against government regulations which stifle opportunity, money, greed, capitalism......want to regulate and stifle opportunity, money, greed, capitalism for college athletes simply because it might interfere with their entertainment expectations. Sounds like hypocisy to me.

Also get a kick out of the people constantly threatening to "quit" following these sports. As if they would be able to suddenly turn off emotions and rooting interests should RU make a run to the Final 4. LoL.

I won’t complain about people quitting their tickets I may be taking over a great location in the 100 level now working with one of our posters who’s fed up with NIL.