3 new guys after their first full team workout

[RUChoppin]

We have two four stars on the team.

Once


Choppin-
In the last 6 seasons:
-Northwestern has gone 101-95 including 2 twenty win seasons
-Minnesota has gone 112-93 including an NCAA birth and an NIT Championship
-Illinois is 114-90, been in the post season four out of those six years, and has twice made it to the second round of the NCAA tournament

So there are a few more models for you.

And we have two 4 stars not one (Sanders and Freeman).

I too don't want to go through the effort of going through every league. Please don't make me do that to make my point that a bunch of three stars with a couple of 4 stars can win.

We only had one 4 star player among the top 8 players (by minutes) from last year. Freeman played just 216 minutes (while Goode was one of the top 8 with 431 minutes). That meant I also did not count other top players, like 4* Dion Wiley of Maryland who missed the whole season with injury.

Also, I was looking at conference records only, looking at who was competitive against the rest of the Big Ten. In the last 6 seasons, neither Northwestern nor Minnesota have finished at or above .500, and Illinois has finished at .500 just twice.

I'm certainly not saying that we have no path to success next year (or in subsequent years), just that a team of 3* players with just a couple 4* players has an uphill climb in our conference - and the teams that have found consistent success in-conference have largely done it with players that have been more heavily recruited.

As they say, the race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong - but that's the way to bet.

 

[RutgHoops]

I am excited for Year 1 of Pikiell. Coaching matters in CBB and I am optimistic he can coach.

 

[willisneverrana43]

Pikiell has the next few years to show us whether he is the guy who can finally get RU basketball going. And it seems he will have support from the AD's office and has practice facilities and upgrades on the way. Good.

That said, the team he inherited has not shot or scored well at all and, no matter what term you use to try to delicately and hopefully describe it, that history will not change. Let's hope they get better, much better, at shooting, and just scoring, and that the new guys can shoot. But most of all Pikiell will need this team to D it up in the hope of stealing a few games.

 

[seels2662]

We only had one 4 star player among the top 8 players (by minutes) from last year. Freeman played just 216 minutes (while Goode was one of the top 8 with 431 minutes). That meant I also did not count other top players, like 4* Dion Wiley of Maryland who missed the whole season with injury.

Also, I was looking at conference records only, looking at who was competitive against the rest of the Big Ten. In the last 6 seasons, neither Northwestern nor Minnesota have finished at or above .500, and Illinois has finished at .500 just twice.

I'm certainly not saying that we have no path to success next year (or in subsequent years), just that a team of 3* players with just a couple 4* players has an uphill climb in our conference - and the teams that have found consistent success in-conference have largely done it with players that have been more heavily recruited.

As they say, the race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong - but that's the way to bet.

Ok, I understand. But a .500 conference record is not the only measuring stick to a successful season. My point is that there are a bunch of teams out there with this formula a successful season with what we have is not an impossible dream.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

The shooting percentages are all fine for the players we have and all will improve this year.

What casual sports fans do is make blanket statements to fit their arguments....of course in the isolated world of only looking at the conference we play in, we forget that there are over 400+ D1 programs and most don't have the "ranked" players that most major conference teams do.

The only consistent item lost and never focused on is defensive efficiency and RU was practically dead last in every single measurable defensive category of the conference and I would almost certainly imagine was last in all Power 5 conferences.

If we are to have informed conversations, we would all understand that of course recruiting matters, but the mix of recruiting and a staff that is willing to coach defense, is what matters. Pikiell is recruiting players that are going to be plus-defenders first and that is going to create friction for some fans that are only going to focus on shooting percentages, as if the team your playing against has nothing to do with the shooting percentages of the players. The people talking about stats are under some impression that stats involve a game of HORSE, where there is no shot clock, there are no defenders etc.

RU will not be last in defensive stats this year, next year or certainly in 3 years. There will be the defensive intensity we saw under Rice's regime, which didn't involve half of the talent Pikiell is starting with.....Rice started with 7-8 kids period.....Pikiell has 10 legitimate players and people are whining that he needs 11-12 players just to get to .500.....it's absurd.

It's coaching defense, having a staff that actually scouts the opposition, getting to work and getting stops. Those things will get done this year, but that just gives RU a chance to improve by approximately 15 PPG lower than what we saw teams score against us last year. Once we see how much the defensive intensity improves is when RU wins more games, not just by "star rankings" but who wants to grind more than the other players elsewhere.

Sorry to burst some bubbles here, but there is enough of a roster/talent to put the work together. RU lacked the strength and conditioning in BOTH major sports, which has been well documented based on how much size and strength has been added to the same roster in football in less than one full off-season. If we place that emphasis on the basketball programs players, mixed with the talent, RU will be more than improved on defense first....anyone here that wants to compare offensive talent with Rice's first team, knock yourself out, you'll be hard pressed to find an argument that the roster was more talented than this one.

If Sa is as advertised on defense (similar skill set to Dane Miller defensively) and we have three guards that are all better than Beatty, Coburn etc., I'm not sure how RU cannot be .500, if they defend and rebound, all traits of what Pikiell preaches.

RU will improve folks, but save the stats and star rankings for rooting for another team or program. RU will get kids that can play, compete and build the program in the right way.

 

[RUChoppin]

Ok, I understand. But a .500 conference record is not the only measuring stick to a successful season. My point is that there are a bunch of teams out there with this formula a successful season with what we have is not an impossible dream.

Not an impossible dream at all. And conference success is not the only measuring stick, to be sure. I don't think anyone (outside of Pikiell and the team) is seriously looking at making the NCAA tournament this season, either... better than .500 overall is probably a better starting expectation.

Still, we're going into this season short handed. Just 10 scholarship players, most being lightly recruited by other teams at our level, in one of the toughest conferences in the country. As some have said above, defense is really going to be key this year.. as will be limiting turnovers/mistakes and staying out of foul trouble. We'll see how Pikiell brings these parts together into a greater whole.

Next year brings another host of questions. Both Sanders and Freeman are at risk of leaving, depending on how well they do this year. At the very least, Sanders will declare for the draft again to see how high he might go, and Freeman will be 23. This season's success (both on the court and on the recruiting trail) will give us a pretty good indication of the trajectory we'll be on over the next couple of years.

 

[RU_DIO]

The shooting percentages are all fine for the players we have and all will improve this year.

What casual sports fans do is make blanket statements to fit their arguments....of course in the isolated world of only looking at the conference we play in, we forget that there are over 400+ D1 programs and most don't have the "ranked" players that most major conference teams do.

The only consistent item lost and never focused on is defensive efficiency and RU was practically dead last in every single measurable defensive category of the conference and I would almost certainly imagine was last in all Power 5 conferences.

If we are to have informed conversations, we would all understand that of course recruiting matters, but the mix of recruiting and a staff that is willing to coach defense, is what matters. Pikiell is recruiting players that are going to be plus-defenders first and that is going to create friction for some fans that are only going to focus on shooting percentages, as if the team your playing against has nothing to do with the shooting percentages of the players. The people talking about stats are under some impression that stats involve a game of HORSE, where there is no shot clock, there are no defenders etc.

RU will not be last in defensive stats this year, next year or certainly in 3 years. There will be the defensive intensity we saw under Rice's regime, which didn't involve half of the talent Pikiell is starting with.....Rice started with 7-8 kids period.....Pikiell has 10 legitimate players and people are whining that he needs 11-12 players just to get to .500.....it's absurd.

It's coaching defense, having a staff that actually scouts the opposition, getting to work and getting stops. Those things will get done this year, but that just gives RU a chance to improve by approximately 15 PPG lower than what we saw teams score against us last year. Once we see how much the defensive intensity improves is when RU wins more games, not just by "star rankings" but who wants to grind more than the other players elsewhere.

Sorry to burst some bubbles here, but there is enough of a roster/talent to put the work together. RU lacked the strength and conditioning in BOTH major sports, which has been well documented based on how much size and strength has been added to the same roster in football in less than one full off-season. If we place that emphasis on the basketball programs players, mixed with the talent, RU will be more than improved on defense first....anyone here that wants to compare offensive talent with Rice's first team, knock yourself out, you'll be hard pressed to find an argument that the roster was more talented than this one.

If Sa is as advertised on defense (similar skill set to Dane Miller defensively) and we have three guards that are all better than Beatty, Coburn etc., I'm not sure how RU cannot be .500, if they defend and rebound, all traits of what Pikiell preaches.

RU will improve folks, but save the stats and star rankings for rooting for another team or program. RU will get kids that can play, compete and build the program in the right way.

Our shooting percentages and talent are not good. We have 1 big man who can score around the basket. Our guards and wings are not good shooters. We need to recruit players who can put the ball in the basket. Defense, better training, better coaching should give us a better record but most importantly, we need to recruit better players.

 

[RUChoppin]

Our shooting percentages and talent are not good. We have 1 big man who can score around the basket. Our guards and wings are not good shooters. We need to recruit players who can put the ball in the basket. Defense, better training, better coaching should give us a better record but most importantly, we need to recruit better players.

To be fair, we really don't know what we have with Doorson and Diallo, yet. Big men definitely take time to develop (see: Hamady N'Diaye), and injuries have definitely impacted their development (both the injuries that kept them off the court, and the injuries to players around them that limited their practice opportunities). They're both RS Sophomores now, their third year out of HS, and have a competent staff and S&C program working to help them improve. Also, as we saw with the progression of Foreman, the prior staff may not have been the best to take raw big men and help them grow.

Not saying we're going to see leaps and bounds results, but I'm not ready to discount either of them yet. Body control and positioning seemed to be two of their bigger issues, which ratcheted up their foul counts when they were able to play and kept them on the bench for stretches. Hopefully Pikiell and Co. can start to resolve some of that and get more out of both.

 

[RU_DIO]

To be fair, we really don't know what we have with Doorson and Diallo, yet. Big men definitely take time to develop (see: Hamady N'Diaye), and injuries have definitely impacted their development (both the injuries that kept them off the court, and the injuries to players around them that limited their practice opportunities). They're both RS Sophomores now, their third year out of HS, and have a competent staff and S&C program working to help them improve. Also, as we saw with the progression of Foreman, the prior staff may not have been the best to take raw big men and help them grow.

Not saying we're going to see leaps and bounds results, but I'm not ready to discount either of them yet. Body control and positioning seemed to be two of their bigger issues, which ratcheted up their foul counts when they were able to play and kept them on the bench for stretches. Hopefully Pikiell and Co. can start to resolve some of that and get more out of both.

I agree about the big men. They usually do take time to develop and are usually much better as juniors and seniors. I just don't think they'll be ready this year coming off injuries and just finally getting good coaching.

 

[RUChoppin]

The shooting percentages are all fine for the players we have and all will improve this year.

What casual sports fans do is make blanket statements to fit their arguments....of course in the isolated world of only looking at the conference we play in, we forget that there are over 400+ D1 programs and most don't have the "ranked" players that most major conference teams do.

The only consistent item lost and never focused on is defensive efficiency and RU was practically dead last in every single measurable defensive category of the conference and I would almost certainly imagine was last in all Power 5 conferences.

If we are to have informed conversations, we would all understand that of course recruiting matters, but the mix of recruiting and a staff that is willing to coach defense, is what matters. Pikiell is recruiting players that are going to be plus-defenders first and that is going to create friction for some fans that are only going to focus on shooting percentages, as if the team your playing against has nothing to do with the shooting percentages of the players. The people talking about stats are under some impression that stats involve a game of HORSE, where there is no shot clock, there are no defenders etc.

RU will not be last in defensive stats this year, next year or certainly in 3 years. There will be the defensive intensity we saw under Rice's regime, which didn't involve half of the talent Pikiell is starting with.....Rice started with 7-8 kids period.....Pikiell has 10 legitimate players and people are whining that he needs 11-12 players just to get to .500.....it's absurd.

It's coaching defense, having a staff that actually scouts the opposition, getting to work and getting stops. Those things will get done this year, but that just gives RU a chance to improve by approximately 15 PPG lower than what we saw teams score against us last year. Once we see how much the defensive intensity improves is when RU wins more games, not just by "star rankings" but who wants to grind more than the other players elsewhere.

Sorry to burst some bubbles here, but there is enough of a roster/talent to put the work together. RU lacked the strength and conditioning in BOTH major sports, which has been well documented based on how much size and strength has been added to the same roster in football in less than one full off-season. If we place that emphasis on the basketball programs players, mixed with the talent, RU will be more than improved on defense first....anyone here that wants to compare offensive talent with Rice's first team, knock yourself out, you'll be hard pressed to find an argument that the roster was more talented than this one.

If Sa is as advertised on defense (similar skill set to Dane Miller defensively) and we have three guards that are all better than Beatty, Coburn etc., I'm not sure how RU cannot be .500, if they defend and rebound, all traits of what Pikiell preaches.

RU will improve folks, but save the stats and star rankings for rooting for another team or program. RU will get kids that can play, compete and build the program in the right way.

Agree on nearly all points.

Another thing people have to realize is that last year was not normal. The number of injuries we dealt with left us with mismatches, players playing out of position, and strange rotations... none of which we should see this year, provided we don't get bitten by the injury bug again.

Defense is absolutely key to this season, and I really think that Pikiell and staff are going to show us a night and day difference from last year. I also expect fundamentals and S&C to be greatly improved, and for fans to clearly see a rhyme and reason on both offense and defense.

Can we hit .500 overall? I think that's within reach. I don't see us hitting 20+ wins, though, this year.

As far as recruiting and star ratings, we may very well become an Iowa/Wisconsin type team that recruits a lot of guys who may not be traditional "superstar" players coming out of high school but who fit our system and have a high upside that the staff feels they can cultivate. Over time, though, given our recruiting territory, I'd expect to see more traditionally "high rated" players coming through the door.

 

[knights1212]

It was nice to read Hawk's comments. He always has a good view of our current situation. Thanks for your views.

 

[seels2662]

I agree with you Hawk, with the exception of one thing. Ten players is not enough knowing that just last season we had three season ending injuries, plus other long term injuries.

 

[PaKnight]

I agree with you Hawk, with the exception of one thing. Ten players is not enough knowing that just last season we had three season ending injuries, plus other long term injuries.

So we are due to have good health this year.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

We can add an 11th and 12th players to fill the spots and then we are in a Justin Goode type of situation that isn't fair for both the player or recruiting and spots available. It's difficult to sit on a players minutes because it's not the right fit and to have then vacated after a year.

Let's not panic over year one on what may happen with injuries....I'm not a prediction machine when it comes to injuries, some are beyond anyone's control. Ideally we take our time with Freeman and allow the true bigs more time to get acclimated this year...Sa really is the key component here, he's going to be a force on both ends of the glass.

Doorson and Diallo will need time and may not be a good matchup defensively against smaller OOC opponents. We need to have them brought along slowly, so we have them for the teeth of the schedule into January and February.

 

[higgins3]

We can add an 11th and 12th players to fill the spots and then we are in a Justin Goode type of situation that isn't fair for both the player or recruiting and spots available. It's difficult to sit on a players minutes because it's not the right fit and to have then vacated after a year.

Let's not panic over year one on what may happen with injuries....I'm not a prediction machine when it comes to injuries, some are beyond anyone's control. Ideally we take our time with Freeman and allow the true bigs more time to get acclimated this year...Sa really is the key component here, he's going to be a force on both ends of the glass.

Doorson and Diallo will need time and may not be a good matchup defensively against smaller OOC opponents. We need to have them brought along slowly, so we have them for the teeth of the schedule into January and February.

You are that high on Sa?A shot blocker either ends up with 1 block a game and 4 fouls. Not sure what to expect from him off the glass. Grabbed 8 boards in juco. I am not sure how that translates to big ten.

 

[Goo]

Most excited about Bullock. Guys like him are a nightmare to play against.

 

[eja92]

Overinflate?

Lets look at what our starting lineup will be and tell me if our "fans" are overinflating as usual:

PG Corey Sanders - Rivals top 100 Player
SG Nigel Johnson 3 star on every site
SF Laurent 3 star on every site/ Thiam 3 star on every site (and 247 top 250 composite)
PF Deshawn Freeman Rivals top 100 player (but was rated after the last top 150 list)
C - Shaq Doorson - #16 center and 4 star on ESPN, #34 Center in the nation and 3 star on 247 composite

The only person that we are "overinflating" will be the 4th or 5th person off the bench

Seels - my one comment is that the day a player sets foot on campus, their stars become meaningless. For example, Nigel Johnson is three years out of HS so what he was or was not in HS is no longer relevant. The rankings are fun and enable people to follow recruiting but they are not terribly relevant to a good coaching staff. I will also remind people that Brandon Knight (our terrific assistant coach) had basically no options coming out of HS. RU's roster is thin a player or two (would have been nice if Foreman had stayed) and lacks shooters, but our talent level is pretty good. The on-court product should be much improved if we stay healthy.

 

[seels2662]

Seels - my one comment is that the day a player sets foot on campus, their stars become meaningless. For example, Nigel Johnson is three years out of HS so what he was or was not in HS is no longer relevant. The rankings are fun and enable people to follow recruiting but they are not terribly relevant to a good coaching staff. I will also remind people that Brandon Knight (our terrific assistant coach) had basically no options coming out of HS. RU's roster is thin a player or two (would have been nice if Foreman had stayed) and lacks shooters, but our talent level is pretty good. The on-court product should be much improved if we stay healthy.

Sorry I guess you took the wrath of me being mad at a bunch of people that say "well we didn't win, we must recruit better players" when the actual issue is that for a long time we just suck at developing the players we have. The videos that have been coming out showing the training, the practices, this was obsolete here before Pikiel.

 

[eja92]

Sorry I guess you took the wrath of me being mad at a bunch of people that say "well we didn't win, we must recruit better players" when the actual issue is that for a long time we just suck at developing the players we have. The videos that have been coming out showing the training, the practices, this was obsolete here before Pikiel.

Agree totally. We are dealing with a professional staff which we have not had in some time. It has not really mattered what came in before as it generally left, but now I think things are changing. We have talent and it will be developed.

 

[chrisru99]

I predict we will suck again hope I'm wrong.

 

[RU23]

I predict we will suck again hope I'm wrong.

I think most here would agreed but on the bright side we've got 8-10 guys who probably belong on a high major college basketball roster, none of whom will be seniors (Sanders could declare of course; that would screw us). If we stay healthy I expect us to be competitive this year and if we aren't, pikiell should start taking some heat. If we do have some key injuries we should probably give pikiell a pass and then next year, if everyone returns, we should expect a lot more from an experienced group.

 

[higgins3]

I predict we will suck again hope I'm wrong.

Thanks for your addition to the conversation.

 

[RickB113]

Sorry I guess you took the wrath of me being mad at a bunch of people that say "well we didn't win, we must recruit better players" when the actual issue is that for a long time we just suck at developing the players we have. The videos that have been coming out showing the training, the practices, this was obsolete here before Pikiel.

Obsolete??? What do you think happened in practice under EJ? He threw a ball in the middle of the court and went up in the stands with the assistant coaches and smoked a cigar? C'mon.... Man, if you or anyone else thinks Pikiel is out coaching the other big ten coaches with weaker talent you are in for a RUDE awakening. Ain't happening.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Rick

I wanted Eddie to win badly...but I don't think the talent was 7-25 talent last year

We had no big guys heathy to function as a legit team and we were already a riddicuouly inexperienced team coming into last year

I think we have the raw talent for a major turnaround if the players buy into and he coaching is going to be as good as I think it will
Be

I can see .500 this year with the entire team returning for 17-18 if it develops and coached well

 

[RickB113]

Rick

I wanted Eddie to win badly...but I don't think the talent was 7-25 talent last year

We had no big guys heathy to function as a legit team and we were already a riddicuouly inexperienced team coming into last year

I think we have the raw talent for a major turnaround if the players buy into and he coaching is going to be as good as I think it will
Be

I can see .500 this year with the entire team returning for 17-18 if it develops and coached well

Ok. So if Pikiel had to deal with the same injuries last season as EJ how many more wins does Pikiel get? If you think more than two or three you are nuts. Coaching matters and can make a difference but talent wins overall.

 

[seels2662]

Obsolete??? What do you think happened in practice under EJ? He threw a ball in the middle of the court and went up in the stands with the assistant coaches and smoked a cigar? C'mon.... Man, if you or anyone else thinks Pikiel is out coaching the other big ten coaches with weaker talent you are in for a RUDE awakening. Ain't happening.

Its funny you would say that....read an EXACT quote from a post a while back....

You hit the nail on the head.

I have a friend who is high school basketball coach. He's been invited to RU practices going back several years now. After attending his first practice with Jordan at the helm he said, "Well, that's the last practice I'll go to with Jordan leading the team." I asked, "Why?" He said, "He basically just rolls the balls out and the team scrimmages. There's nothing to learn by attending one of his practices." Conversely, this same coach loved Rice's practices. "He taught and had drills that really improve individual and team play. The practices I went to I found out something I could use with my team."

 

[higgins3]

Ok. So if Pikiel had to deal with the same injuries last season as EJ how many more wins does Pikiel get? If you think more than two or three you are nuts. Coaching matters and can make a difference but talent wins overall.

With Pikiell though, it is the support from the new AD, Hobbs, and him looking at the little things.

I agree- if he was here last year we probably would not have done that much better. Now though, we have a guy that is looking at the SC program as a way to get a leg up. He seems to be monitoring players' weights, all the little things.

If Pikiell does that correctly, we have a team that is not injured as often. Pikiell also came in and had high expectations for who he wanted on his staff. Another thing EJ did not do.

It is these little things that will put Pikiell in a better spot going forward. Things that EJ had the potential to do, but did not look at like Pikiell.

 

[RUChoppin]

Ok. So if Pikiel had to deal with the same injuries last season as EJ how many more wins does Pikiel get? If you think more than two or three you are nuts. Coaching matters and can make a difference but talent wins overall.

Michigan - Lost by 9
Indiana - Lost by 7
Monmouth - Lost by 6
St. John's - Lost by 2
Wake Forest- Lost by 1
Illinois - Tied at end of regulation

If last year's team had better coaching and S&C, how many of those games would have been wins?

Still wouldn't have mattered, as even with 5 more wins, we'd have finished 12-20... but EJ really didn't seem to be bringing much value from a coaching standpoint.

 

[RickB113]

With Pikiell though, it is the support from the new AD, Hobbs, and him looking at the little things.

I agree- if he was here last year we probably would not have done that much better. Now though, we have a guy that is looking at the SC program as a way to get a leg up. He seems to be monitoring players' weights, all the little things.

If Pikiell does that correctly, we have a team that is not injured as often. Pikiell also came in and had high expectations for who he wanted on his staff. Another thing EJ did not do.

It is these little things that will put Pikiell in a better spot going forward. Things that EJ had the potential to do, but did not look at like Pikiell.

I agree with this post. I am not as big on the strength and conditioning guys making that huge a difference. That goes for football too. Just like the coaching it can make a little difference. I have NO DOUBT the Pikiel is better than Jordan and will run a better program. I like him. I like our assistants. I like our AD. My only point is that we need top talent too. I think all the rest is moot without top talent. We will be in the same spot in 4 years as we are today. But instead of 7 wins we will have 12 wins. Seton Hall didn't do ANYTHING under Willard until they started landing TOP 100 players. Then all of the sudden Willard could coach. It's ALL about the talent.

 

[RUChoppin]

It's ALL about the talent.

Except that it's not.

You can't consistently succeed without good coaching - even with "top talent".

Look a the 2008-09 season. We had four 4* players, all of which were in the Rivals Top 70. Fr. Echenique (50), Fr. Rosario (55), So. Chandler (65), Jr. N'Diaye (68). We finished 11-21.

Look at the 2009-10 season. We again had four 4* players, all of which were in the Rivals Top 100. So. Echenique (50), So. Rosario (55), Sr. N'Diaye (68), Fr. Miller (95). We finished 15-17.

We also had FHJ as our coach.

You need coaching to get top players to meet their potential, to buy in to the program, to form a team... to keep them from transferring, to keep them improving year to year.

 

[RickB113]

Except that it's not.

You can't consistently succeed without good coaching - even with "top talent".

Look a the 2008-09 season. We had four 4* players, all of which were in the Rivals Top 70. Fr. Echenique (50), Fr. Rosario (55), So. Chandler (65), Jr. N'Diaye (68). We finished 11-21.

Look at the 2009-10 season. We again had four 4* players, all of which were in the Rivals Top 100. So. Echenique (50), So. Rosario (55), Sr. N'Diaye (68), Fr. Miller (95). We finished 15-17.

We also had FHJ as our coach.

You need coaching to get top players to meet their potential, to buy in to the program, to form a team... to keep them from transferring, to keep them improving year to year.

Sorry. Let me rephrase. Without top talent you are not going to win. With it you still need good coaching. I agree. Although I would argue that Hill would have won if those classes stayed together and graduated. Jamie Wright didn't win his first year with Foyes class and they were number one in the country. It took until their junior season to make the dance. We are going round and round. Bottom line is we aren't going to win without consistently landing top 150 players year in and year out.

 

[RUChoppin]

Sorry. Let me rephrase. Without top talent you are not going to win. With it you still need good coaching. I agree. Although I would argue that Hill would have won if those classes stayed together and graduated. Jamie Wright didn't win his first year with Foyes class and they were number one in the country. It took until their junior season to make the dance. We are going round and round. Bottom line is we aren't going to win without consistently landing top 150 players year in and year out.

Sure, if FHJ had been a good enough coach to keep those classes together, and working together, they would have done far better than they did. If he were a good enough coach to really improve their performance year to year, they would have done better still. But he wasn't, so they didn't.

You *can* succeed with excellent coaching and predominantly 3* talent (Iowa and Wisconsin have both fared well without traditional Top 100 players), but it's much harder to do. I'm happy to start by getting the guys we have to play to their ability, and then have Pikiell work on stronger classes as we move forward.

 

[HeyHuey]

Bullock is a bull! Sa & Thiam both listed at 6'9" but looks like Sa has an inch on him. Can't wait to watch them play.

I hope Bullock is Adrian Dantley.

 

[rufeelinit]

I hope Bullock is Adrian Dantley.

I'll take him being like Rashod Kent. Although from what I read he can shoot better than Kent.

 

[RU at the shore]

I'll take him being like Rashod Kent. Although from what I read he can shoot better than Kent.

Why is everyone setting the bar so low ? Bullock = Charles Barkley

 

[Tango Two]

 

[chrisru99]

Temper your expectations my friends no one but us offered Bullock. Not one other D1 school offered. if he plays major minutes this year lots of coaches should be fired since many D1 coaches saw him play and none of them offered. Adrian Dantley was a pro baller and champion. I'd love to be wrong but let the kid learn and grow. If Bullock plays a lot our talent level must be really low. Remember this kid played for a basketball power and some of his teammates are going to big time schools. This kid was seen by everyone and he got nothing and we fire our coach and now we offer. Let's hope the facilities get built that is our only hope.

 

[eja92]

Temper your expectations my friends no one but us offered Bullock. Not one other D1 school offered. if he plays major minutes this year lots of coaches should be fired since many D1 coaches saw him play and none of them offered. Adrian Dantley was a pro baller and champion. I'd love to be wrong but let the kid learn and grow. If Bullock plays a lot our talent level must be really low. Remember this kid played for a basketball power and some of his teammates are going to big time schools. This kid was seen by everyone and he got nothing and we fire our coach and now we offer. Let's hope the facilities get built that is our only hope.

I can tell you that our staff absolutely loves Bullock - on and off the court. What he was thought of, who rated him as what, etc., is no longer relevant. While I agree that expecting a ton out of a freshman in the Big 10 is always risky, I think a lot of D1 coaches are going to look back in a couple of years and wonder why this kid was not offered.

 

[seels2662]

We keep on going in circles with this. Bullock was a nice pickup that the coaches saw something in him that noone else saw. That being said, he is the fourth or fifth guy off the bench. We are not anointing him the starting job day one.

 

[RU23]

We keep on going in circles with this. Bullock was a nice pickup that the coaches saw something in him that noone else saw. That being said, he is the fourth or fifth guy off the bench. We are not anointing him the starting job day one.

It's not about whether he'll be starting or not - it's about if he can contribute. We literally have 3 scholarship guards besides him, so unless you want those 3 playing the whole game (and that's assuming no injuries) or someone playing out of position, he's going to have to play.