If we could get Ndongo and Cliff leaves, he is my 5, Ace is the 4. JWill, Dylan are the preferred guards, find a 3 with range, and let's run.
5 players in the portal - Richie from the pod
- Thread starter Scangg
- Start date
Beyond this - saying it’s probably time to replace Mag does not make anything Hawk said preseason correct. His take on this year’s team was wrong on literally every account.
Thoughts on Mag’s potential role in the future are different from the outlook heading into the season. His recovery speed was always a wildcard - it was never a certainty that he would return to his pre-injury form, but based on his contributions last season most believed it was worth the risk. The way this season played out with Mag does not prove he was never good to begin with - last year’s contributions don’t disappear. Clearly Mag’s lack of availability for many games due to health issues indicates he hasn’t been playing at 100% even when he does play.
Looking ahead - I’m of the view that it’s probably too much of a risk to keep Mag here with an expectation that he will return to his pre injury form since that hasn’t happened after a full season. That’s very different from saying this season proves he was overvalued last year though when we were a ranked team in part because of him.
Why are we defending Mag? All year long he has not been on same page as Pike. You can hear Pike alluding to it in status updates about the return from injury especially early on. Not worth it, move on.
Agreed. You can see the frustration on Pikes face. He has been loyal to Mag and the loyalty has not been reciprocated.
It’s not a heart issue for Mag it’s a head issue. Too many people are whispering things in his ear. His handlers are going to play him right out of town. Mag is not an offensive weapon.. Not sure many programs value d over o as much as RU. Not many teams will be ponying up big money for defensive stats.
He basically held the team hostage last year for NIL money. Runs hot and cold in games this year. It's board speculation but would it really surprise you if he entered the portal?
And this is exactly why I crossed the picket line and started siding with Hawk on the Mag issue. IDGAS how good his D is, he doesn't put the ball in the hoop enough, not reliable enough and almost everyone under Pike improves on D. I'm sure his replacement will be ok/improved on D from wherever they came from next season.
Wait until what a 2025-2026 Rutgers roster could look like. Has the potential to be the year where a bunch of fans pack it in.
You can replace Mag without a big boatload of cash. This is where I think people go too far with the mag thing. He is not some great player that only a stud cash grabbing portal acquisition can replace.
It’s my belief that this season does validate @NewJerseyHawk.
Mag was a role player overvalued because of a lack of depth and a significant drop in point guard play, after his injury. Sure, he was playing well no doubt. If he was the same player this year the offense would’ve been just as dreadful. And do we think the defense would’ve moved from 2 to 1? But I think he was spot on in thinking there was real pause to believe he was the player of the 8 game stretch he played on and reason to believe his skillset was not as unique as described. Ultimately I think this team this season was lucky to finish where they have.
Hawk has so many takes it gets hard to keep track.
Hawks biggest (and worst) take on Mag was that his injury last had no impact on our NCAA tournament chances. This was a ridiculous take.
He then said over the past few months that Mag was the key piece to our tournament chances this year (which was a complete contradiction to his view on his impact last year).
A healthy Mag who is willing to play gives you one of the best defenders in college basketball and 10-12 ppg.
Now we’ve only seen this a few games this year as he clearly hasn’t been healthy and there’s also questions on whether he’s actually able to play. I think most are now accepting of the fact that it’s probably best to move on from him….but that has nothing to do with the wild takes Hawk had lol.
Mag is not that offensive player though. He had a very efficient support role stretch in maybe what was it 6ish games where he mad some corner threes. There’s really not much to support that was who he was offensively looking at his whole career.
Last year in big play on our nice start mag:
W Indiana 7pts 3 of 7
L 13th, Ohio St 3pts 1 of 4
W 1st, Purdue 2pts 1 of 4
W T-5th Maryland 6pts 3 of 4
L T-5th, Iowa 9 pts 3 of 10
W 3rd, NW 9 pts 4 of 5
W 13th, Ohio St 15 5 of 6
L Mich st 6 pts 2 of 6
W 9th, PSU 8 pts 1 of 3
L T-5th, Iowa 12pts 5 of 7
W 14th, place Minn 10pts 5 of 6
W T-5th Mich st 7 pts 3 of 4 (injured)
Mag wasn't critical to our team last season because he was lighting up the scoreboard. He was critical as the last piece in the rotational puzzle (note I do not mean the lowest man on the totem pole), and the one that made our press AWESOME. Guys generally were "sharing the game" and played their role within the game plan. After his injury, we had to try to reinvent that magic in the middle of the B1G season and it never clicked again.
While we don't know what is happening behind the scenes, it sure looks hard to trust Mag will answer the bell every night out next season - which is a shame, because a veteran with his glue guy ability could be a great part of the roster with so much young talent next year.
While we don't know what is happening behind the scenes, it sure looks hard to trust Mag will answer the bell every night out next season - which is a shame, because a veteran with his glue guy ability could be a great part of the roster with so much young talent next year.
Last year he would have ended around 8-10 ppg (he averaged 7.8 ppg and keep in mind he was playing some of his best basketball before he went down).
His current average this year is 9.1ppg.
He’s still less than a year out from his ACL surgery and banged up….I’m not sure why you don’t think he’s currently a 10-12ppg player IF fully healthy and willing to play. Which is now becoming questionable and why I’m okay to move on from him if he’s playing games.
I have moved from "taking Mag off last year's team killed it" to "taking anyone off last year's team would've killed it."
That’s what’s scares me. I don’t see Pike as a cutthroat CEO - he is a culture guy and the college athlete marketplace is evolving away from program building at the high major level. That will remain in the Patriot League or the MAAC.
RU needs to be recruiting in the 20s/30s consistently to compete at the level we want to achieve - and the passion the RAC deserves.
Hard to build a program without continuity in the roster.
We also had 2 games in the last 8 or so, where RU looked and played at the RAC, like a real NCAA caliber outfit. People will downplay Wisconsin and Michigan at the RAC, but you simply don't win games consistently, by slowing the ball down and winning with only 60 PTS.. if the Wisconsin up tempo and Michigan games aren't signs or signals of a change, not sure what you're looking for.
You cannot consistently score in the 70s, unless you sacrifice some defense for offense (playing more Noah and less Simpson/Davis. 2 of RUs best games occurred with limited or NO contributions from Mag and 3s from Fernandes in transition or early in the shot clock....did those games not happen??
If you remove players who don't play that style, you will have more success, it's not complicated. RU playing Mawot Mag 27 minutes a game and playing Simpson and Davis as starters, is built to play defense a and hope opponents miss shots.
Playing Davis/Simpson or viewing them as one player next year works for me. Dylan, Ace, Dortch/Grant, Cliff, Simpson and Davis can all play up tempo. I don't see that with Oskar, Mag, Wolf, Chol.....and it made no sense with Cam or Paul.
And if you can't see good coaching, not sure what to tell you. Jwill is just as impactful as Cam Spencer....you will be blinded by 3 point shooting percentages but JWill is just a better all around player. Spencer made the right decision, taking on less responsibility and just being focused on shooting at UConn. He is not the 1st or 2nd option there, he plays off of Clingan and Newton, then Alex Karaban. It is a nice fit, or easy work if you can find it.
Considering how few scoring options RU has beyond maybe Hyatt, it's a minor miracle that JWill stepped in.
Did I think Simpson, Noah, Davis and Griffiths would collectively be better than Cam and Paul?? 100%, but you have to stick and commit to pushing the tempo, which Pike abandoned early in the season. It wasn't until JWill started, that RU looked like the team I expected it to.
One last tidbit, for those still on the Mag train.....it takes a few clips during games to see JWill instructing and encouraging Gavin on where to be on the court and to keep playing. Since JWill has emerged as a leader, Gavins play on BOTH ends have improved. Gavin is much further behind than I expected, but I see improvements, which is all I need going into 2024-25. I never viewed 2023-24 as some sort of make or break season.....I think 2025-26 is really where we find out where the program stands after next year's wild ride.
Pike and staff made Cam Spencer a name for himself......this same staff made other "lesser" players (Mulcahy, Mag, Jacob Young, Myles Johnson etc) into players better than when they left. Most saw their play decline after leaving the banks......maybe JWill is the next player who has become a household name and he was a normal player at Temple.
I have ZERO doubt that this staff will develop the 2024 kids and we don't need a war chest of hundreds of thousands of NIL money to plug holes like Mag, Wolf or finding another guard or big forward. Players will have opportunities to play here, because we have holes to fill and we will be on the radar nationally.
If I am Baye Ndongo and I'm laboring away at Georgia Tech, is Tech really going to climb the ACC standings?? Or do you rethink the bad decision to decommit and play next to Ace Bailey, Dylan Harper, Lathan Sommerville, Gavin etc...maybe even Cliff.....maybe I'm too optimistic, but we need talent and if we fill holes with "normal" players like JWill, RU becomes very, very dangerous next year.
Three of the four slowest tempo teams in the Big 10 are headed to the tournament: Michigan State, Northwestern, and Wisconsin, the last of which has famously played slow for 25 years and been a consistent winner the whole time.
I said that many times and stated that Mag was my fifth or 6th most valuable player last year behind Cliff, Caleb, Spencer, Hyatt, then Paul and Mag.
We had forwards to offset Mag. But we didn't play Simpson more, when he provided the only piece able to pressure the ball, get steals and get easy baskets in transition. We could or should have moved Paul off the ball and played him and Hyatt in Mags spot and elevated Simpson.....we didn't do that until the B1G tournament, but it was way too late.
Removing any of the 5 players that were more important than Mag from the equation would have done even more damage than just losing Mag....it takes a long time to correct bad narratives that just simply never showed to be true on the court or during games.
This hasn't been discussed at all, but I've been watching Cornell basketball all year as well, and they have three NJ/NYC guys I wouldn't mind seeing next year in Manon, Gray, and Hansen.
That's not really relevant because pace doesn't replace the ability to have an individual player go get a basket.
You can play as slow as you like, you better have a piece that scores or can break down defenders or power to the basket. AJ Storr is a difference maker on a Wisconsin team that lacks playmakers. But as the season has worn on, Storr and his impact has been reduced, because as long as you don't give up cheap points to Storr in transition, you can beat Wisconsin.....
Boo Buie dominates possessions and takes and makes tough shots....pace has nothing to do with NW, it's simply adding more shot makers around Buie.....Even though Chase Audige is a "better player", than Barnheizer or Langborg, Langborg plays off of Buie, like Spencer plays off Newton and players at UConn.
MSU simply doesn't make enough 3s, which is a pace issue or not having shooters in transition. If they had their normal wing players, they'd play faster or more like the traditional Sparty teams....Hoggard hasn't delivered for them, which also presents limitations, since he's not fast and isn't a good shooter in transition.
Mag is a career 44/26/70 role player. 10-12 is a lot of points. He’s up to 9 on more volume than he would ever see again.
Just don’t see and don’t see why we should think it would happen.
I agree that having players that can make shots is better than having players that miss shots.
He would be 10-12 ppg this year and next year IF healthy. I’m not talking about the past, I’m talking about what his potential would have been this year and next IF healthy.
Again - he wasn’t 100% when he returned this year as he was only approx. 10 months from ACL surgery.
If he gave us 9ppg still recovering from surgery not sure why you don’t think he would have been capable of another 1-3ppg IF healthy.
Nothing if he’s not playing.
If he’s playing and fully healthy he gives us some of the best defense in the country and 10-12 ppg.
Now we probably never see that at this point so it’s probably best to move on. Still doesn’t make your ridiculous takes right LOL.
Hyatt more important to last year’s team than Mag 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I would add, he cuts well without the ball. Our players get stagnant on offense a lot. He bailed us out many times by cutting thru the lane.
Let me help you answer the question, because there is nothing unique with Mag OR he doesn't do anything at a high level that offsets other gaps.
If I said Cliff is a unique defensive player, I could point to blocks per game and altered shots.
If I said Paul Mulcahy was a unique player. I could easily point to his assists and say, he impacts the game that way (despite not scoring or shooting enough etc)
If I said Spencer impacts games and opponents because he's a threat from 3, I could say he's a unique player that if a defense lapses, will make you pay with him hitting 3s (that isn't complimented by other things he does at a high level, which is why fit is more critical than overall play)
If I said Caleb was a unique player, it was 2 times as Defensive Player of the Year, despite being a wing defender. His defense made him impactful.
Hyatt has a strength, and it's his ability to catch and shoot 3s. Which in CBB is a must have.
Mag doesn't do anything "great"....he is not a must have player and certainly not a starter.
You can dispute this, if you like, but this is how most "reasonable " basketball people see things.....and why his loss last year was not a deal breaker. Removing any other piece would have been worse than losing Mag last year. And it doesn't excuse losing to Minnesota or looking woeful on offense for most of the season, with or without Mag.
There are basically no teams with five true playmakers on the court at a given time. Ryan Cline would not get high-quality looks without Carsen Edwards and Matt Haarms and Trevion Williams garnering attention, and he was pretty bad as an individual defender. And yet Purdue was better for having him. Having pieces that fit together is hugely important. Last year's team fit together quite well. This year's did not (in addition to the overall lack of talent).
How about Nick Martinelli on Northwestern this year? What does he do that's great? And yet he's playing 40 minutes a night for a tournament team.
How about Nick Martinelli on Northwestern this year? What does he do that's great? And yet he's playing 40 minutes a night for a tournament team.
Where is Mag now my friend?? Where is the impact?? He's not even trying to play, only would a large segment of RU fans accept mediocre as a standard.....and further excuse make now, when the season is still ongoing.
Is Martinelli good?? I like him a lot, but it's 100% contingent on Buie or a playmaking guard. Fit is important, but I don't substitute "fit" as if no one else can replace or fit that role.
My concern there is Baye shot 11 threes this year. If it’s Cliff, JWill, DH and Ace, we have three guys who definitively can’t shoot and two guys who maybe can shoot.
I’m a broken record here but i think shooting is the paramount priority this offseason
I don’t think that’s true though if anything he would get less shots next year and he’s a career 44/26/70 player
No one is arguing about Mag now. Most of us agree he’s been disappointing this year — and at this point, it appears he’s got one foot at the door
But last year’s team TANKED the second Mag went down and Hyatt assumed his place. To the tune of a tournament collapse and Palm taking Hyatt’s minutes. Your insistence on entrenching yourself in positions that have been proven wrong is wild. It’s okay to admit you’re wrong sometimes — we all have takes on this board that don’t pan out
I would be wrong and admit when I'm wrong all the time. If you have evidence to support that blanket statement, I would very much agree.
We have now seen Mag for a handful of games this year. There is nothing unique about his game, that separates himself from anyone else on the roster. He has no defined strengths to his game and obvious glaring weaknesses. I'm not elevating a player to must have or essential status, when the player doesn't warrant it.
Why is there a fascination with not winning games or being mediocre?? Why should we want non-difference makers to occupy starting roles against teams that have better players than we do?? I just don't understand the logic.
RU had a couple of good weeks last season and caught Purdue with a freshman backcourt in Mackey Arena. It played a handful of quality games (less than 8 total). It had about 12 to 15 where they looked "average" and 3 of those, they had no business winning (at Penn State and fortunate for a Cliff block at Wisconsin specifically). It lost to Minnesota.
This team was not Mawot Mag scoring, shooting or playmaking at a high level from winning 20 to 21 games last year. The season is not 20 games long, it's 32 to 35 in most cases.
There's literally no chance of that happening as in ZERO. Because he has a chance or has a coach waiting, begging, pleading for Mag to actually do that THIS season and he showed literally no interest in doing so, outside of maybe 2 or 3 games.
Mag "could have" stepped up and declined to do so. He doesn't have to play 25 minutes a game, but he's not playing any.....when is this going to sink in??
What is preventing Mag from doing everything you think he could do next year.....he immediately went right into the starting lineup THREE separate times after sitting games. He has the ball in his hands more than enough to score, playmake.
Why don't we just admit, he's not that type of player, instead if hoping and wishing it into reality?? I don't see how this isn't registering.
Why do we have to continue to give chance after chance, after another chance, for a player not built for that type of role?? Does this happen anywhere else in Power 5 conferences?? Be realistic, he has a track record of scoring 6 or fewer points as a starter than reaching 12PPG. If he had a 3 point shot, I'd be inclined to think it "might happen", but even teams who know Aundre Hyatt is a shooter, doesn't hit 37 to 38% from 3.....Mag is around 25% from 3, with no focus from defenses.....is that going to get better??
Mag was an elite defender and was a better on ball defender than Caleb last year (sorry psalhoops). He was instrumental in leading our press. He was extremely valuable to last year's team because of what he brought to the table and our lack of depth.
This year he has been a shell of what he was last year. There is no comparison to Mag 2023 and Mag 2024. Add the fact he is always in street clothes......
Motion to ban this neverending debate on Mag's impact? It's getting super tiresome reading the same arguments in every thread.
Hey look at us the last 24 hours all at least having some good discussion without going off the rails nice job everyone. Actually fun to post when it’s like this.
