Sorry I misread your post . I agree with you. Urban #1 , Schiano #2That’s what I was saying .. the only person who would bring back the buzz that Greg would is Urban and urban isn’t coming so therefore ....
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Sorry I misread your post . I agree with you. Urban #1 , Schiano #2That’s what I was saying .. the only person who would bring back the buzz that Greg would is Urban and urban isn’t coming so therefore ....
I would take 16-19 in B1G play as well, that is not my point, he was 16-19 in the BE conference, I am concerned what he would do in the most powerful division in all of college football. After the alleged breakout year of 2006 he should have been cleaning up in a weak BE conference, not struggling at 16-19, that is my concern.I'd take 16-19 in 5 years of B1G play.
Although we have 9 B1G games per year.
Assuming we lose every year to tOSU, Michigan and Penn State, that would be 0-15.
Assuming we split with the rest (Indiana, Maryland, Michigan State, and 3 West Teams), that's 15-15
That would be 15-30.
Indiana is 11-30 over the last 5 years in the B1G.
Pat Fitzgerald was 18-22 in his first 5 years.
What exactly are people expecting of any coach, considering our schedule? 30-15 in the B1G?
Irrelevant.
"Once it's built, it will be built to last."
Direct quote.
Cmon man....STOP!
This Program Was left in great shape for Flood. A 9-4 team with almost everyone coming back and the school’s best recruiting class ever
And Flood started the next year with a completely different staff except him and Robb smith 9-1 and an invite to the big ten confrence
He left this place in great shape and the school...for many reasons including the hires they made...destroyed it.
The good news is the structure is still in place for the next coach to succeed. It just needs leadership and a new culture
Thats why I didnt respond...Off the deep end. This post makes zero sense
So who do you see as a better candidate? Be realistic about the candidates.
You know it's easy to tear down things, but it's difficult to rebuild. That seems to be the theme around here.
"Built to last", for those who were not personally familiar with the narrative (as stated previously, I was - firsthand) meant:
It doesn't actually have anything to do with winning and losing. It has everything to do with the drive and desire among prospective in-state athletes to identify with and support the program regardless of who the coach is.
- Branding recognizable in New Jersey among fans and, particularly, among junior athletes (Pop Warner, etc.
- Recruit familiarity and a passion among NJ high school players and coaches for all things Rutgers
- Baseline program support elements in place - locker room, weight room, practice facilities, training table and academic supports
Flood had good success with Schiano's players and was, in reality, a pretty decent Xs & Os guy. So, per Schiano's original formula for success, the continuation of that success should have been a no-brainer because he left in place all of the elements for upper-tier athletes to continue to want to come here and all any of his successors had to do was be able to coach them.
As we know, this didn't happen.
In analyzing why, the reason appears to be largely correlated with the fact that the strength of those cornerstone elements wasn't actually there. If you look at Schiano's recruiting classes it becomes apparent that he never actually achieved a high degree of penetration into the upper crust of NJ blue chippers. As has been stated previously, he was not well thought of by some of the more influential NJ parochial coaches. His recruiting successes, taken as a whole, were every year comprised of a mix of a couple of good NJ kids, a few good Florida kids and a bunch of "diamonds in the rough", some of which he and his staff were able to develop.
He also got super-lucky. If not for Terry Shea's magnanimous treatment of Nate Leonard, there is no Brian Leonard. If not for Paul Pasqualone being shit-canned at 'Cuse, there is no Ray RIce, et al. The reality of the '06 team is that, from a recruiting perspective, he was the beneficiary of significant good fortune.
So, no. The program was not "built to last". That was marketing schtick. Greg Schiano didn't perform a miracle. He was an aggressive guy with a strong (and frequently disagreeable) personality who got lucky - and then got unlucky. And when it started to become apparent that his luck was running out, he executed a timely departure for the worst job in the NFL, a job at which no one has ever been successful and which no one else really wanted.
We can do better. We should do better. We should insist on better.
Of the coaches that have publicly (media) been discussed my first choice is Butch Jones.
He won two conference championships at Central Michigan.
He won two conference championships at Cincinnati.
Formerly a graduate assistant at Rutgers.
His 2011 Cincinnati team won the Big East championship and the Big East team academic award.
Another fake fan
Once he turned the program around. Let that sink in...
Don’t gimme no revisionist history bs.
Spare me “he was a shitty game day coach”
Get outta here with that “couldn’t win the big one” garbage.
We were the R. Respected, Ranked, Recruited.
Not only did he polish this turd, he dressed it up and took it to the f’ing prom!
Bring him back and turn him loose.
STFU, and let him do it again.
Anyone else is a crap shoot at THIS institution.
Give me a relentless workaholic who knows this culture and will recruit his ass off.
Yes, he may lose some he shoulda won, but in the end, we will ALL win... again.
Give me Greg Schiano.
Honestly, who knows if that’s even him anymore?
The last career move he made was to leave the Patriots weeks before the NFL season began for reasons people can only speculate.
Now, I’m not saying I don’t think he should be the guy. But the current version of Schiano is in a way different stage in his career than the Schiano who coached here.
About Bowl games, Schiano coached and won more bowl games than any other Rutgers HC in history! It is also a misleading stat.
Rutgers followed the IVY League model of post season play and refused and turn down many invites to play in bowl games from the 30's to the early 70's. Only after student outcry in the mid 1970's did they finally get rid of this rule. Only to turn down yet another invite after their undefeated season! Only in 1978 did they accept an invite but that game was in New Jersey at Giants Stadium.
With no history of traveling to bowl games, bowl committees kept passing Rutgers by in the 1980's even when they had a winning record. It wasn't until we joined the Big East and the Big East got bowl affiliations that Rutgers even had a real chance to go bowling. Of course we happen to have one of the all time worst runs during this time! Then Schiano was hired and he got us bowling like a normal team after a handful of years.
This is the real reason why there are so few bowl games in our history despite playing longer than anyone else.
I want you to be critical of his track record in the same way you were of Schiano. Jones always followed Kelly, and so was his success tied to Kelly's hard work? Also, Jones' success had some help in the form of multiple 4 and 5 stars on the roster. See, both candidates have faults that can cause people to question their value. My point is you can't treat one with disdain and the other with kid gloves. Try looking at this without any bias involved.Of the coaches that have publicly (media) been discussed my first choice is Butch Jones.
He won two conference championships at Central Michigan.
He won two conference championships at Cincinnati.
Formerly a graduate assistant at Rutgers.
His 2011 Cincinnati team won the Big East championship and the Big East team academic award.
Part of me thinks playing the best competition in the B1G East is a major asset for Schiano in recruiting if he’s the coach ... stay at home, play the best, and make history while getting a world class education. The shore, NYC, Philly ... lots to offer!!!!Agreed. He won’t be the same. But he knows what to do. He’s been there, done that, and will bring all those experiences since Rutgers, good and bad, and help this turd once again.
His xs and os were not good, you seem to forget what happened his first year and his 2nd year.
CORRECT. IMO we are getting a New,Improved version.Bring it on.Yes this is definitely one perspective. There are also scenarios, even some that are likely to happen, where Schiano would struggle.
It’s impossible for anything to remain the same over time - so we have to understand that we aren’t getting the exact same guy we had 10 years ago, for better or for worse
2012: 9-4, a WTF loss to Kent St. and losses to Pitt, L'ville and VT (Russell Athletic Bowl and admittedly a shitty game) to end the season.
2013: 6-6, lost to #9 ND at shitty Yankee Stadium. The best thing about that day was the off-the-hook @AreYouNUTS party.
2014: 7-5, including the beat down of UN(o)C(lasses) in the Whatever the Hell That Game in Detroit Was Called.
2015: 4-7, first year in the B1G with predictable results but we did manage to beat Indiana. It's also worth pointing out that our B1G losses were, overall, the closest losses in any season since.
There's lots of ways to spin all this. But in light of the recent history with Ash, I think the notion that Flood "trashed the program" is revisionist history. Looking back, objectively, the consensus at the time was that he wasn't meeting expectations and appeared "lost" at times.
Kent State..not pulling Nova in that game..., the Pitt game which was a total turd, RU could have won the BE by beating them, instead a total no show the Va Tech bowl game which RU led 10-0 but inexplicably despite RU dominating the game defensively, the play calling was anemic. A solid season that quickly exposed Flood
there were a few games where RU immediately got down big...some of them they actually came back and won but why so unprepared to start games.
2013...an uttter disaster of a season despite finishing 6-6....last second miracle to beat Temple, thrashed by Houston, Cincy, UCF. Just won of the worst pass defenses around, people just threw their hands up in the air....the kicker was that Julie wanted him gone and we could have had Hermann or Narduzzi but hey we needed to hire a guy with head coaching experience..silly donors what did you pay for a couple years later. Once again the BOG refusal to take athletics seriously and show Julie the money once again torpedoed the program
2014...Flood's best year IMO...he fought for his job didnt he. Yet still the bad xs and os..see Penn State were there.
2015....sorry a total failure. suspended at the beginning of the season
Im not getting into Ash because he was horrible for this program....but the BOG and Pernetti hiring Flood directly led to a situation that put Rutgers from a solid program with a good reputation to a stinking turd by the time he left.
2012: 9-4, a WTF loss to Kent St. and losses to Pitt, L'ville and VT (Russell Athletic Bowl and admittedly a shitty game) to end the season.
2013: 6-6, lost to #9 ND at shitty Yankee Stadium. The best thing about that day was the off-the-hook @AreYouNUTS party.
2014: 7-5, including the beat down of UN(o)C(lasses) in the Whatever the Hell That Game in Detroit Was Called.
2015: 4-7, first year in the B1G with predictable results but we did manage to beat Indiana. It's also worth pointing out that our B1G losses were, overall, the closest losses in any season since.
There's lots of ways to spin all this. But in light of the recent history with Ash, I think the notion that Flood "trashed the program" is revisionist history. Looking back, objectively, the consensus at the time was that he wasn't meeting expectations and appeared "lost" at times.
Don’t forget he was an asset at Halloween, players always knew where to go for wigs and mustacheslol...
I totally forgot about the suspension.
At the end of the day, I think Flood's biggest failure was his inability to control the locker room. His last couple of years it seemed apparent that the inmates were running the asylum. That's not permissible under any circumstances. The only way to manage 100+ 18-22 year old kids is for them to absolutely understand that they are not in charge.
With a somewhat stronger personality, I think he's a good coach, overall. Maybe Saban is helping out in that regard, I don't know.
That was a GREAT party! When 2 other bars on the block open up a tad early to accommodate the overflow AND offer the specials THAT is a good one lol! Thx!
And 5-1 in bowl games during that same time span.
Will bringing back a former HC (Greg) work again for Rutgers.
Don't know.
Pitt tried it with John Majors #2, but he did not work out as well as John Majors #1.
John Majors:
Pitt (HC): 1973-1976 (Age 30) left Pitt for Tennessee after he directed Pitt to a football National Championship.
Tennessee (HC): 1977-1992
Pitt (HC): 1993-1996 (Age 50) was replaced after going 12-32.
I have the ultimate respect for John Majors who is truly a great coach with class and integrity.
Good luck with Rutgers coaching decision.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
The foundation was built to last and still in fine shape.Irrelevant.
"Once it's built, it will be built to last."
Direct quote.
CORRECT. IMO we are getting a New,Improved version.Bring it on.
Yes you do get older and wiser but some things don't change much even with age IMO. Personality wise I think you are what you are after a certain point in life and don't expect much change.Greg has changed and grown as he's gotten older - like many of us. Do those changes make him a better or worse HC? Only one way to find out. LOL
Yes you do get older and wiser but some things don't change much even with age IMO. Personality wise I think you are what you are after a certain point in life and don't expect much change.
If you're introvert you're introvert, if you're arrogant you're arrogant, if you're jovial you're jovial, if you're outgoing you're outgoing.....etc...
I remember Pete Carroll in the NFL thought of as too much players coach too happy go lucky and that was seen as negative during his first stints there then to USC did anything change after failure? Nope still same and still same in Seattle.
Bill Belichick...gruff mumbler throughout his career did that ever change from earlier to now? I don't think so
I read an article about Dave Aranda all the way back to his high school days introverted hard worker put his nose down grinded it out and that's the same description of him through his time as GA to his time now as highest paid DC in college football.
IMO most people are what they are personality wise after a certain point of life...I think you rarely see major change in personality.
Those schools had an AD (& administration) make wise decisions. Rutgers seems to lack that one trait to turn the corner.I posted this in the other thread and a couple times on the board. This is for those in such despair with the current circumstances. It can be changed with a good coach.
I've posted these numbers here before.
Duke's record before Cutcliffe.....6-45 overall and 3-33 in conference with 3 straight winless ACC seasons prior to his arrival
WSU's record before Leach.....9-40 overall and 4-32 in conference
ISU's record 3 seasons before Campbell....8-28 overall and 4-23 in conference
Purdue's record before Brohm...9-33 overall and 3-24
Hire a good coach and you can turn things around and some of those turnarounds happened quickly even.
If they made such wise decisions they wouldn't have found themselves in the predicament of having those kind of records in the first place. And btw with regards to Duke...the coach before Ted Roof, Carl Franks had just as pathetic a record. The tide can always change with a good hire.Those schools had an AD (& administration) make wise decisions. Rutgers seems to lack that one trait to turn the corner.
The difference is they learned from their mistakes. Show me where Rutgers has learned from their mistakes?If they made such wise decisions they wouldn't have found themselves in the predicament of having those kind of records in the first place. And btw with regards to Duke...the coach before Ted Roof, Carl Franks had just as pathetic a record. The tide can always change with a good hire.
Duke learned from their mistakes? They hired two coaches in a row that were absolutely terrible.The difference is they learned from their mistakes. Show me where Rutgers has learned from their mistakes?
It's like playing whack-a-mole.Thats why I didnt respond...Off the deep end. This post makes zero sense
You can keep going on this debate. You're not even listening to yourself. Duke did learn and that's why they don't have the same problem as Rutgers. It doesn't matter if it's an offensive guy or defensive guy. They need someone who can change the direction of the program. Btw, Schiano was a defensive guy when he turned around Rutgers. The HC at Northwestern was a defensive guy too. Care to explain that one? Bottom line, your argument is agenda-driven and no matter what you're going to stick to it.Duke learned from their mistakes? They hired two coaches in a row that were absolutely terrible.
We can learn by hiring a strong offensive coach and giving him the budget for a strong capable DC. Notice all the coaches mentioned that performed those turn arounds were offensive guys. I’ve been advocating for that for a long time.
That's the big question, does he still have the drive to bring it all up again? Has he changed enough to trust others instead of trying to micromanage every single detail?Greg has changed and grown as he's gotten older - like many of us. Do those changes make him a better or worse HC? Only one way to find out. LOL
Nope, 2014 was our first year in the Big Ten, with a 3-5 record. Damn, if we had only won that game against the Sandusky Pedophilers!2014: 7-5, including the beat down of UN(o)C(lasses) in the Whatever the Hell That Game in Detroit Was Called.
2015: 4-7, first year in the B1G with predictable results but we did manage to beat Indiana. It's also worth pointing out that our B1G losses were, overall, the closest losses in any season since.
Yea and those both happened in a different era of college football. And btw I'm actually not against defensive guys...I've said my ideal actually is a defensive HC (like a Stoops or Patterson) but one who won't be confused about offense, has the connections and know how of how to implement it...Alex Grinch is a name I've mentioned plenty here I like but would be a non starter for pretty much everyone because of lack of experience. Elko too but same issue no HC experience for many here. Somehow Hafley bypasses that bar for some and that's only with not even 1 year of DC experience at that. I think he can actually be a good one too but if you rule out the others like Elko/Grinch how does a person like him...beats me?You can keep going on this debate. You're not even listening to yourself. Duke did learn and that's why they don't have the same problem as Rutgers. It doesn't matter if it's an offensive guy or defensive guy. They need someone who can change the direction of the program. Btw, Schiano was a defensive guy when he turned around Rutgers. The HC at Northwestern was a defensive guy too. Care to explain that one? Bottom line, your argument is agenda-driven and no matter what you're going to stick to it.